Knicks · Danny Ainge never intended to let the Knicks Get Donovan Mitchel (page 1)

Papabear @ 9/2/2022 4:05 PM
Papabear Says

Ainge always had a hate displeasure with the Knicks.(Boston vs Knicks) He used us he made a request that we just could not do and if we did it we could hardly make the playoffs. we offered him plenty. It was Cleveland all the time. If we offered him 3 unrestricted picks he still wanted to fleece out players. Lets be patient and remember the only way we get to the promised land will be if we grow our own. When it comes to deals we are the Black Sheep of the league.

EwingsGlass @ 9/2/2022 4:19 PM
I think Ainge did well for himself.

Sexton/Clarkson
Beasley/Agbaji
THT/Johnson
Markannen/Vanderbilt
Kessler/Azubuike

Ainge fleeced his own team and may still have a squad that gives the Knicks problems if Utah tried to win. Mostly cause two of our high volume shooters are bad at shooting.

I assume he will still move

Bogs
Conley
Gay

It was easier for Cleveland to pull that trigger than us once we signed Brunson.

No hard feelings.

ramtour420 @ 9/2/2022 5:52 PM
Cleveland is in a different position "Process"-wise from us. They were 44-38 last season and just barely missed the playoffs by a hair. Weird, right? The East has surely improved compared to even 5 years ago. Yeah they had two All-stars. But that vote is done by fans. It doesn't guarantee anything. Still, they were farther along then us. Therefore their picks are worth less then ours. Those are simple facts. It made more sense for them to take that risk. Our team has just added a real PG in his prime for the first time in decades. I bet our players will have more value than now come trade deadline because of the easier scoring opportunities created by JB. There goes that man I am glad we stayed pat. Ainge might have wanted our 3 unprotected picks instead of Cleveland's but forget him. Rose called his bluff and I am very happy he did
Nalod @ 9/3/2022 10:31 AM
Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

Ainge always had a hate displeasure with the Knicks.(Boston vs Knicks) He used us he made a request that we just could not do and if we did it we could hardly make the playoffs. we offered him plenty. It was Cleveland all the time. If we offered him 3 unrestricted picks he still wanted to fleece out players. Lets be patient and remember the only way we get to the promised land will be if we grow our own. When it comes to deals we are the Black Sheep of the league.

Not sure why Ainge would have a hard on for us. as a player in Boston and as an exec they have feasted on us for years.
This is where DM wanted to go and its his job to get the best deal. With Aller being tight with Altman its possible the Knicks knew the gig and while we might not have profited at the moment it created good will? Maybe?
If we going conspiracy why not,
Ainge got a better deal then from us. Im fine with what happened. He tried and our guys did not bend.
Maybe that was the message league wise? Dolan is not in the room and we are nobody's patsy anymore. The NY tax is repealed!!!!

Also, the dominoes fall. In the process of Knicks out shopping perhaps a team has approached us and "if you don't get DM, call us"..........Thus Leon tried to get a really good deal on DM. He could not. So now on to the next.
Its not lost on our FO that they were short and perhaps not the best fit. But "for the money" it was worth exploring. Maybe we used Danny in some manner ourselves????

Just spitballing.

fwk00 @ 9/3/2022 12:40 PM
Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

Ainge always had a hate displeasure with the Knicks.(Boston vs Knicks) He used us he made a request that we just could not do and if we did it we could hardly make the playoffs. we offered him plenty. It was Cleveland all the time. If we offered him 3 unrestricted picks he still wanted to fleece out players. Lets be patient and remember the only way we get to the promised land will be if we grow our own. When it comes to deals we are the Black Sheep of the league.

Ainge will never perform a trade that appears as if the Knicks win. Full stop.The fact that DWade is part of that organization simply adds another voice to the anyone-but-the-knicks cohort.

But, true. that if the Knicks threw in a kitchen sink in a DM trade and allowed Ainge to fleece them a trade would have transpired.

DM was a nice-to-have player more than a need-to-have plyer for the Knicks. Not worth the kitchen sink deal and so Rose did the sensible thing - nothing heroic here and nothing to get upset about.

What is becoming obvious at the NBA league level is that the player transaction policies need to change. There is a shrinking value to paying front office staff big bucks for their expertise when positive change is wholly a function of Lady Luck.

The Knicks have cobbled together a very nice team of very nice role players. They have no upside future barring an improbable and unpredictable set of circumstances to shine their way. Winning is losing, losing is rational but the product is only co-incidentally related to what you need.

martin @ 9/3/2022 1:02 PM
fwk00 wrote:The Knicks have cobbled together a very nice team of very nice role players. They have no upside future barring an improbable and unpredictable set of circumstances to shine their way. Winning is losing, losing is rational but the product is only co-incidentally related to what you need.

The Knicks have no upside future? What?

fwk00 @ 9/3/2022 1:28 PM
martin wrote:
fwk00 wrote:The Knicks have cobbled together a very nice team of very nice role players. They have no upside future barring an improbable and unpredictable set of circumstances to shine their way. Winning is losing, losing is rational but the product is only co-incidentally related to what you need.

The Knicks have no upside future? What?

They are stuck in NBA pergatory. This combination of role players or even an ideal combination of role players exist only to produce a mediocre record (exciting as that may look) that ensures they never sniff the finer air of being a legitimate, sustainable contending team.

You need gifted talent. A player or two on this team may break out but superstar talent usually isn't a development project, its as obvious as a UFO sighting.

So when I say, no future I'm simply pointing out that I'm not seeing a top ten player on the roster. Will these guys run around, pad some stats, perform wowza dunks, wave towels... sure.

MaddogSharp @ 9/3/2022 1:41 PM
Well if we grossly overpaid then he would of had no problem trading him to the Knicks. I think Ainge thought that Rose would buckle under the pressure and give him whatever he wanted and more. We see how the media has unjustly bashed the Knicks for not giving into Ainge
fwk00 @ 9/3/2022 1:58 PM
MaddogSharp wrote:Well if we grossly overpaid then he would of had no problem trading him to the Knicks. I think Ainge thought that Rose would buckle under the pressure and give him whatever he wanted and more. We see how the media has unjustly bashed the Knicks for not giving into Ainge

Actually, with the dawn of fan-driven media, the MSM were pretty fair given their jobs are all on thin ice.

Nalod @ 9/3/2022 2:07 PM
Media and writers are judged and paid by subscribers and eyeballs. Before it was advertisements via print.
That said, the key is to read and think for yourselves. No different than any other topic in todays media driven news business.
EwingsGlass @ 9/3/2022 8:00 PM
fwk00 wrote:
martin wrote:
fwk00 wrote:The Knicks have cobbled together a very nice team of very nice role players. They have no upside future barring an improbable and unpredictable set of circumstances to shine their way. Winning is losing, losing is rational but the product is only co-incidentally related to what you need.

The Knicks have no upside future? What?

They are stuck in NBA pergatory. This combination of role players or even an ideal combination of role players exist only to produce a mediocre record (exciting as that may look) that ensures they never sniff the finer air of being a legitimate, sustainable contending team.

You need gifted talent. A player or two on this team may break out but superstar talent usually isn't a development project, its as obvious as a UFO sighting.

So when I say, no future I'm simply pointing out that I'm not seeing a top ten player on the roster. Will these guys run around, pad some stats, perform wowza dunks, wave towels... sure.

I disagree on the role player concept but agree on the purgatory.

I think the Knicks youth need some more time to gel, but have some really good pieces.

Brunson reminds me of Mitchell without the wingspan and a better midrange game.
McBride reminds me of Marcus Smart, reigning DPOY
Barrett reminds me of Jaylen Brown
Randle reminds me of Dray Green of Dray was the only player on a team.
Mitch Robinson reminds me of Rudy Gobert
Quentin Grimes reminds me of Doug Christie
Jericho Sims reminds me of a better Jarrett Allen, if Jarrett Allen had the lateral movement to defend out past the 3point line
IQ seems like Lou Williams with a more complete defensive game.
Cam Reddish is like an Otto Porter that can put the ball on the floor.
Hart’s passing feels a little like Jokic.
Toppin is among my favorites as an Amare-lite.

Nobody is exactly these other players, they are an opportunity, an experience, and some confidence away. They may or may not make that step.

The fact that these guys aren’t stars in their first 3 years but have clearly been putting the work in. They are a player or a game plan away from putting it together. I can’t promise we get that player in the 2023 draft.

But I think if they get that last piece, everyone on the team looks better. If it clicks this year, they are only a few Net points away from the best.

Brunson/IQ
Fournier/Grimes
Barrett/Reddish
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/Hart

If they can improve from here, great.

wargames @ 9/3/2022 11:31 PM

OP might be right. Bucher also looks at the assets offered and has a point. The Knicks offers quality wise were all better than what Cleveland gave.

RJ was the best player offered in either the Knicks or Cavs packages.

gradyandrew @ 9/4/2022 12:24 AM
wargames wrote:

OP might be right. Bucher also looks at the assets offered and has a point. The Knicks offers quality wise were all better than what Cleveland gave.

RJ was the best player offered in either the Knicks or Cavs packages.

Except Utah didn't want the best player. They want to lose for the next 4 seasons so they have a shot at Wembanyana this season and don't give up any of the lottery protected picks they owe the next 3 drafts afterwards. Sexton and Lauri will be easier to trade for additional draft assets in the future than RJ.

wargames @ 9/4/2022 1:57 AM
gradyandrew wrote:
wargames wrote:

OP might be right. Bucher also looks at the assets offered and has a point. The Knicks offers quality wise were all better than what Cleveland gave.

RJ was the best player offered in either the Knicks or Cavs packages.

Except Utah didn't want the best player. They want to lose for the next 4 seasons so they have a shot at Wembanyana this season and don't give up any of the lottery protected picks they owe the next 3 drafts afterwards. Sexton and Lauri will be easier to trade for additional draft assets in the future than RJ.

You’re forgetting the rumor that Ainge had a deal to send RJ to another Eastern Conference team. As a trade piece RJ had more value because unlike Sexton who is a RFA this summer a team could trade for RJ’s rookie contract. Plus he would have had IQ as another rookie contract trade piece too.

The Knicks were offering Ainge better assets he just wanted to drag it out.

Clean @ 9/4/2022 2:21 AM
wargames wrote:

OP might be right. Bucher also looks at the assets offered and has a point. The Knicks offers quality wise were all better than what Cleveland gave.

RJ was the best player offered in either the Knicks or Cavs packages.

I already thought that our Deal was slightly better. When smackeddog dropped some facts about how they did not want some stuff from us but took it from the Cavs that solidified it that they just did not want to deal him to us. I was pissed about Lebron and KD not wanting to come here. Especially since we could have signed them without draining our assets.

Once I found out we were not getting Mitchell and saw what offer it would take to get him from the Jazz I was fine instantly. He is not worth that to us. We would not be contenders with him if we gave all that up and we would have no assets to improve further. So F Ainge and F the Jazz. Lets now use all the 2023 picks we have in a deep and loaded draft and hope a young all star falls to us. Oh yea and get Randle off my team please. He was the only player with a low level of hustle and bad body language/attitude. He could always change things this season but he was too much of a cancer and I don't trust cancers enough to not take them out.

Ira @ 9/4/2022 6:32 AM
Ainge wants to win. If he got the best offer from Rose, he would have taken it.
BingBong @ 9/4/2022 9:38 AM
EwingsGlass wrote:
fwk00 wrote:
martin wrote:
fwk00 wrote:The Knicks have cobbled together a very nice team of very nice role players. They have no upside future barring an improbable and unpredictable set of circumstances to shine their way. Winning is losing, losing is rational but the product is only co-incidentally related to what you need.

The Knicks have no upside future? What?

They are stuck in NBA pergatory. This combination of role players or even an ideal combination of role players exist only to produce a mediocre record (exciting as that may look) that ensures they never sniff the finer air of being a legitimate, sustainable contending team.

You need gifted talent. A player or two on this team may break out but superstar talent usually isn't a development project, its as obvious as a UFO sighting.

So when I say, no future I'm simply pointing out that I'm not seeing a top ten player on the roster. Will these guys run around, pad some stats, perform wowza dunks, wave towels... sure.

I disagree on the role player concept but agree on the purgatory.

I think the Knicks youth need some more time to gel, but have some really good pieces.

Brunson reminds me of Mitchell without the wingspan and a better midrange game.
McBride reminds me of Marcus Smart, reigning DPOY
Barrett reminds me of Jaylen Brown
Randle reminds me of Dray Green of Dray was the only player on a team.
Mitch Robinson reminds me of Rudy Gobert
Quentin Grimes reminds me of Doug Christie
Jericho Sims reminds me of a better Jarrett Allen, if Jarrett Allen had the lateral movement to defend out past the 3point line
IQ seems like Lou Williams with a more complete defensive game.
Cam Reddish is like an Otto Porter that can put the ball on the floor.
Hart’s passing feels a little like Jokic.
Toppin is among my favorites as an Amare-lite.

Nobody is exactly these other players, they are an opportunity, an experience, and some confidence away. They may or may not make that step.

The fact that these guys aren’t stars in their first 3 years but have clearly been putting the work in. They are a player or a game plan away from putting it together. I can’t promise we get that player in the 2023 draft.

But I think if they get that last piece, everyone on the team looks better. If it clicks this year, they are only a few Net points away from the best.

Brunson/IQ
Fournier/Grimes
Barrett/Reddish
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/Hart

If they can improve from here, great.

Thanks for posting. The idea that all of our young players are no better than role players irks the hell out of me. They aren't even men yet and they are logging hard core NBA minutes as kids playing against seasoned NBA men. They are in their early 20's with their best years ahead of them. They will get stronger and quicker and their ability to know how to exploit other players will grow. It's a scientific fact that men continue to produce an excess of testosterone until they reach the age of 29-30. The most athletic and the strongest most men will ever be is in their late 20's. Of course, players go on beyond those years and use experience to make up for decreasing athleticism. No where is that more evident than in pitching in MLB where experience on how to get hitters out trumps their ability to throw hard (think Chapman who is still relying on a fastball instead of the hitter's weakness).

Regardless - the Knicks are a young team that have just started reaching their potential. Hell, it seems IQ has been on the team for years and he just turned 23 years old. RJ just turned 22 and has only been old enough to legally drink a beer for a year. There is nowhere to go but up from here. Patience is required by a very vocal and impatient fan base, but dang - we're headed in the right direction as long as we don't do something stupid like trade these kids away and all our draft capital for a terrific player with no players around him and no draft capital to eventually put decent players around him

martin @ 9/4/2022 3:20 PM
fwk00 wrote:
martin wrote:
fwk00 wrote:The Knicks have cobbled together a very nice team of very nice role players. They have no upside future barring an improbable and unpredictable set of circumstances to shine their way. Winning is losing, losing is rational but the product is only co-incidentally related to what you need.

The Knicks have no upside future? What?

They are stuck in NBA pergatory. This combination of role players or even an ideal combination of role players exist only to produce a mediocre record (exciting as that may look) that ensures they never sniff the finer air of being a legitimate, sustainable contending team.

You need gifted talent. A player or two on this team may break out but superstar talent usually isn't a development project, its as obvious as a UFO sighting.

So when I say, no future I'm simply pointing out that I'm not seeing a top ten player on the roster. Will these guys run around, pad some stats, perform wowza dunks, wave towels... sure.

When you have so many players who are 26 and under while also carrying one of the better bags of draft pick assets, you are not stuck, you are just not there yet. This is not a frozen in time type of thing.

FO have a lot of unfinished work, just like about 26 other teams out there realistically.

blkexec @ 9/4/2022 4:00 PM
martin wrote:
fwk00 wrote:The Knicks have cobbled together a very nice team of very nice role players. They have no upside future barring an improbable and unpredictable set of circumstances to shine their way. Winning is losing, losing is rational but the product is only co-incidentally related to what you need.

The Knicks have no upside future? What?

How’s does anybody know what the Knicks have if we have a win now coach who tends to lean heavily on a few players and keeps a tight rotation.

If we have a young development team, we need a development coach.

With that said we are on Better shape than you think. Picks and youths are trade commodities. At any given time they can be turned into a disgruntled superstar. Unfortunately I don’t see one that’s available. Hence why knick fans and media are upset not getting DM, even at his high price. That’s how difficult it is to get someone on that level. The role players we would’ve given up are replaceable. Even Grimes who’s going to be a solid rotation player. DM is on another level.

I don’t think we have the right FO for these types of moves. Seems like mismatches all over the place. From coach to roster to FO and their conservative trade / off-season strategy.

martin @ 9/4/2022 4:09 PM
blkexec wrote:
martin wrote:
fwk00 wrote:The Knicks have cobbled together a very nice team of very nice role players. They have no upside future barring an improbable and unpredictable set of circumstances to shine their way. Winning is losing, losing is rational but the product is only co-incidentally related to what you need.

The Knicks have no upside future? What?

How’s does anybody know what the Knicks have if we have a win now coach who tends to lean heavily on a few players and keeps a tight rotation.

If we have a young development team, we need a development coach.

With that said we are on Better shape than you think. Picks and youths are trade commodities. At any given time they can be turned into a disgruntled superstar. Unfortunately I don’t see one that’s available. Hence why knick fans and media are upset not getting DM, even at his high price. That’s how difficult it is to get someone on that level. The role players we would’ve given up are replaceable. Even Grimes who’s going to be a solid rotation player. DM is on another level.

I don’t think we have the right FO for these types of moves. Seems like mismatches all over the place. From coach to roster to FO and their conservative trade / off-season strategy.

When you have a team that comes off of miraculously getting the 4th seed in the East while also bringing in 2 pieces, you don’t immediately start playing young guys all around.

Thibs has consistently gone with 9-10 person rotation over past 2 years.

I don’t think too many people even understand player development beyond minutes on the court.

DJMUSIC @ 9/4/2022 4:36 PM
Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

Ainge always had a hate displeasure with the Knicks.(Boston vs Knicks) He used us he made a request that we just could not do and if we did it we could hardly make the playoffs. we offered him plenty. It was Cleveland all the time. If we offered him 3 unrestricted picks he still wanted to fleece out players. Lets be patient and remember the only way we get to the promised land will be if we grow our own. When it comes to deals we are the Black Sheep of the league.

Agree with remark, Seem Knicks get USED again!
Oh well ...

Dont think Brunson Alone going to get it done in NY, Roster is missing pieces which give NBA something to think about!
Watch Mitch be sent out in another of L.Rose genius take chances moves

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