Knicks · Front Office revealing primary team-building plan (page 1)

We saw it with Brunson this offseason. Call the contract whatever you want but the biggest value here was not giving a haul to get him via trade. In the trade market, a player even of his caliber costs a Dejounte Murray type package. Knicks traded the 11th pick and a bunch of second rounders to offload Kemba, Noel, and Burks, but still ended up with 3 protected picks in return.

We now know the Knicks are drawing the line on the cost of a big star under contract like Mitchell. So SGA will probably be the same thing. Knicks will continue to build via free agency by keeping enough assets to offload contracts to create space for the bigger fish. It seems Andrew Wiggins is the most likely, although someone else could always emerge. But using the CAA angle, Knicks can easily let Wiggins know their intentions and attach some of these protected first round picks to clear Fournier and Randle prior to July 1 and have a max Wiggins offer if they choose. So the cost of getting the player doesn’t cost the multiple unprotected first round picks, swaps, and young players, it costs the lesser assets, like with Brunson.

Obviously the additional picks can be used to grease the skids on a star trade during the season, but we learned pretty quickly those picks don’t hold much value in a star trade. Where they hold value is attaching them to offload negative contracts to teams with cap space that have no intention of using it. We simply can’t blame the front office for not wanting to trade many distant future unprotected picks for any player, so this seems like the best alternative; getting younger all-star caliber players on the free agent market at the cost of using the protected first round picks to free up the necessary cap space.

You're right, protected picks alone wont get us a star. We would have to throw in at least one unprotected pick, and a vet(s) who are having a good season. Whatever the deal would be for a star, the package would probably have a little of everything.

GustavBahler wrote:You're right, protected picks alone wont get us a star. We would have to throw in at least one unprotected pick, and a vet(s) who are having a good season. Whatever the deal would be for a star, the package would probably have a little of everything.

Yes but one unprotected pick an understatement. Dejounte Murray cost 2 unprotected picks, an unprotected swap, and a protected first. And he’s on the fringe of being considered a star. And that was before the Gobert trade caused a market adjustment.

here's the perspective...

Knicks JUST signed all these guys to 4 years:
Randle 28
RJ 22
Brunson 26
Mitch 24

Barring a breakout by RJ or return of MIP Randle that core is really lacking in "top tier" NBA talent.

It IS a group that can grow and get better together and brings a lot to the table. Should be an easy group for Thibs to coach and I expect that to go really well and translate to wins. I think the youth supporting that core is really good but also lacks top tier talent. IQ/Obi/IHart/Grimes are the young "upside" guys (aside from RJ) who will be getting rotation minutes.

I think we will be decent because Thibs can coach effort and we are deep and will win a lot of regular season games, but this looks like we are still pretty early in the talent building phase. Dont get too attached... the only guy staying for awhile is Brunson. We almost just saw half the team go for Donovan so its still a big wait and see for me, but I like what they have done with what they have had to work with

Their primary team building plan is to not overpay assets. From FA, to trades with other teams, to trading down or out of the draft to get a player they like, to re-sign their own players.

The strategy is to not make a bad financial move.

They are very conservative but its the vibe

wargames wrote:Their primary team building plan is to not overpay assets. From FA, to trades with other teams, to trading down or out of the draft to get a player they like, to re-sign their own players.

The strategy is to not make a bad financial move.

They are very conservative but its the vibe

It’s tough to say overpay because some of their contracts could be considered slight overpays. They just don’t want to be stuck with a contract. Keeping a cupboard full of protected picks is for that reason. They won’t just draft the BPA on their draft board. They only want guys they love. Otherwise they will defer. Out of those 4 protected picks I think the over/under for how many they use to draft a player is 1 or 1.5. They will keep busy every free agency but always leave themselves an “out” with future picks always in stock.

Knixkik wrote:

wargames wrote:Their primary team building plan is to not overpay assets. From FA, to trades with other teams, to trading down or out of the draft to get a player they like, to re-sign their own players.

The strategy is to not make a bad financial move.

They are very conservative but its the vibe

It’s tough to say overpay because some of their contracts could be considered slight overpays. They just don’t want to be stuck with a contract. Keeping a cupboard full of protected picks is for that reason. They won’t just draft the BPA on their draft board. They only want guys they love. Otherwise they will defer. Out of those 4 protected picks I think the over/under for how many they use to draft a player is 1 or 1.5. They will keep busy every free agency but always leave themselves an “out” with future picks always in stock.

Until a really good draft comes along. Like the next year's one

ramtour420 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

wargames wrote:Their primary team building plan is to not overpay assets. From FA, to trades with other teams, to trading down or out of the draft to get a player they like, to re-sign their own players.

The strategy is to not make a bad financial move.

They are very conservative but its the vibe

It’s tough to say overpay because some of their contracts could be considered slight overpays. They just don’t want to be stuck with a contract. Keeping a cupboard full of protected picks is for that reason. They won’t just draft the BPA on their draft board. They only want guys they love. Otherwise they will defer. Out of those 4 protected picks I think the over/under for how many they use to draft a player is 1 or 1.5. They will keep busy every free agency but always leave themselves an “out” with future picks always in stock.

Until a really good draft comes along. Like the next year's one

We have no idea how good the draft is other than a few guys at the top. The rest is completely unknown.

Knixkik wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

wargames wrote:Their primary team building plan is to not overpay assets. From FA, to trades with other teams, to trading down or out of the draft to get a player they like, to re-sign their own players.

The strategy is to not make a bad financial move.

They are very conservative but its the vibe

It’s tough to say overpay because some of their contracts could be considered slight overpays. They just don’t want to be stuck with a contract. Keeping a cupboard full of protected picks is for that reason. They won’t just draft the BPA on their draft board. They only want guys they love. Otherwise they will defer. Out of those 4 protected picks I think the over/under for how many they use to draft a player is 1 or 1.5. They will keep busy every free agency but always leave themselves an “out” with future picks always in stock.

Until a really good draft comes along. Like the next year's one

We have no idea how good the draft is other than a few guys at the top. The rest is completely unknown.

Exactly, it’s become a misconception of the 2023 quality because analyst are mentioning how the top two picks look like generational talent. They haven’t said much else except they like the Thompson twins.

2023 doesn’t seem to have hype or hate yet.

2021 draft (the Grime draft) was spoken about for years prior about the high level of quality it was suppose to have overall and so far it’s held up. Though it’s ironic Grimes is a part of that draft’s quality because until college he was on a path to be taken in 2019 that was a weaker overall draft.

Also year they have to love guys to draft them. It’s a common phrase they use around the draft.

wargames wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

wargames wrote:Their primary team building plan is to not overpay assets. From FA, to trades with other teams, to trading down or out of the draft to get a player they like, to re-sign their own players.

The strategy is to not make a bad financial move.

They are very conservative but its the vibe

It’s tough to say overpay because some of their contracts could be considered slight overpays. They just don’t want to be stuck with a contract. Keeping a cupboard full of protected picks is for that reason. They won’t just draft the BPA on their draft board. They only want guys they love. Otherwise they will defer. Out of those 4 protected picks I think the over/under for how many they use to draft a player is 1 or 1.5. They will keep busy every free agency but always leave themselves an “out” with future picks always in stock.

Until a really good draft comes along. Like the next year's one

We have no idea how good the draft is other than a few guys at the top. The rest is completely unknown.

Exactly, it’s become a misconception of the 2023 quality because analyst are mentioning how the top two picks look like generational talent. They haven’t said much else except they like the Thompson twins.

2023 doesn’t seem to have hype or hate yet.

2021 draft (the Grime draft) was spoken about for years prior about the high level of quality it was suppose to have overall and so far it’s held up. Though it’s ironic Grimes is a part of that draft’s quality because until college he was on a path to be taken in 2019 that was a weaker overall draft.

Also year they have to love guys to draft them. It’s a common phrase they use around the draft.

Don't see it

Primary team building plan—

Start Grimes and get out of the way

TheGame wrote:Primary team building plan—

Start Grimes and get out of the way

I want to see Brunson, Grimes, Barrett, Randle and Mitch 5 with the strong bench before anything else at this point. Brunson was a big move, I don’t care what anyone says. Everything else is wait and see until we see this group together. Adding someone like Wiggins next year would be great as long as we don’t trade much off the current roster.

The reason Luka Doncic became one of the top 20 star players in the NBA in his 2nd season in the NBA, because Luka co-existed with every player in his lineup, plus great ball-handle and passing skills to be the Mavs main PG on offense for above 30 min per game.
Knicks fans need to stop thinking Brunson have the same skills/talent as Luka Doncic !!!
Putting all the pressure on Brunson to get Iso-Randle, Iso-Barrett, Iso-Grimes, and perimeter shooter Fournier to play team-ball on offense are asking a lot from one player.

Last season the Knicks biggest problem winning were the Knicks starter lineup not having any team-chemistry or team defense.
The Knicks starters does not co-exist with each other on either side of the court.
Randle & RJ Barrett chemistry last season (2021-22) were the same as their 2019-20 season (AWFUL).
It had to be the performance of SF Bullocks chemistry, providing picks, screens, ball-movement, and great multi-position defense in the 2020-21 season to have the Knicks starter lineup perform decent to have a 41-31 season.

Kemet wrote:The reason Luka Doncic became one of the top 20 star players in the NBA in his 2nd season in the NBA, because Luka co-existed with every player in his lineup, plus great ball-handle and passing skills to be the Mavs main PG on offense for above 30 min per game.
Knicks fans need to stop thinking Brunson have the same skills/talent as Luka Doncic !!!
Putting all the pressure on Brunson to get Iso-Randle, Iso-Barrett, Iso-Grimes, and perimeter shooter Fournier to play team-ball on offense are asking a lot from one player.

Last season the Knicks biggest problem winning were the Knicks starter lineup not having any team-chemistry or team defense.
The Knicks starters does not co-exist with each other on either side of the court.
Randle & RJ Barrett chemistry last season (2021-22) were the same as their 2019-20 season (AWFUL).
It had to be the performance of SF Bullocks chemistry, providing picks, screens, ball-movement, and great multi-position defense in the 2020-21 season to have the Knicks starter lineup perform decent to have a 41-31 season.

Knicks had the top ranked defense in the league following the All Star break (and exile of Kemba). I think you over value Bullocks contribution. RJ Randle and Robinson are the cornerstones of a solid defense.

TheGame wrote:Primary team building plan—

Start Grimes and get out of the way

In the second video the guy says that Grimes set a franchise record with 7 made threes in a game. I thought the number was 9, set by Spree and matched by Tony Douglas in 2011

ramtour420 wrote:

TheGame wrote:Primary team building plan—

Start Grimes and get out of the way

In the second video the guy says that Grimes set a franchise record with 7 made threes in a game. I thought the number was 9, set by Spree and matched by Tony Douglas in 2011

I think he meant by a rookie.

Knixkik wrote:

TheGame wrote:Primary team building plan—

Start Grimes and get out of the way

I want to see Brunson, Grimes, Barrett, Randle and Mitch 5 with the strong bench before anything else at this point. Brunson was a big move, I don’t care what anyone says. Everything else is wait and see until we see this group together. Adding someone like Wiggins next year would be great as long as we don’t trade much off the current roster.

Do not see the harm in 'waiting and seeing" with all our yoots. If they are good enough they will start in due time.

TheGame wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:

TheGame wrote:Primary team building plan—

Start Grimes and get out of the way

In the second video the guy says that Grimes set a franchise record with 7 made threes in a game. I thought the number was 9, set by Spree and matched by Tony Douglas in 2011

I think he meant by a rookie.

Oh, that makes sense. Thanks

If Knicks spacing becomes a real issue, I still wouldn’t rule out trading Mitch and a protected pick for Myles Turner. He’s not the big time floor stretcher but he’s enough as well as an elite rim protector. Brunson, Grimes, Barrett, Randle, and Turner offers the balance needed with providing more spacing. But again want to see how the team gels first at this point.

Knixkik wrote:If Knicks spacing becomes a real issue, I still wouldn’t rule out trading Mitch and a protected pick for Myles Turner. He’s not the big time floor stretcher but he’s enough as well as an elite rim protector. Brunson, Grimes, Barrett, Randle, and Turner offers the balance needed with providing more spacing. But again want to see how the team gels first at this point.

Hoping Mitch finally has developed a mid range jumper. That would help with spacing. Remember when Mitch did this?

If Mitch could do this more often....

Having said that, I wouldnt trade Mitch this season, unless it was for an all-star.

GustavBahler wrote:

Knixkik wrote:If Knicks spacing becomes a real issue, I still wouldn’t rule out trading Mitch and a protected pick for Myles Turner. He’s not the big time floor stretcher but he’s enough as well as an elite rim protector. Brunson, Grimes, Barrett, Randle, and Turner offers the balance needed with providing more spacing. But again want to see how the team gels first at this point.

Hoping Mitch finally has developed a mid range jumper. That would help with spacing. Remember when Mitch did this?

If Mitch could do this more often....

Having said that, I wouldnt trade Mitch this season, unless it was for an all-star.

The free throw shooting makes that unlikely. And that still prevents him from being a factor in the 4th quarter of a close game much of the time. I still think given either Randle or Toppin is a fixture at PF, Mitch isn’t the ideal fit in the starting lineup.