Woj laid out how there will be plenty of unexpected teams throwing in the towel early this year for the chance to get to the top of a historic top heavy draft. Wembanyama and Henderson offer a top tier of players who are considered generational, and about 3 other players (Amen Thompson, Nick smith and whitmore) seem to be in a next tier of potential stars before a drop off. With those 5 players (outside of the top 2 it can always change) teams will be fighting to the bottom to at least ensure a top 5 pick with the greatest chance at a top 2. Without getting to convoluted here, I wanted to take a look at the tanking teams and next group of potential tankers who could potentially talk themselves into it early and what players might come available. Knicks will undoubtedly look to jump on these potential mid season trade targets.
Teams at the very bottom: spurs, thunder and Jazz
Spurs probably don’t have anyone left to move on from. Keldon Johnson is intriguing but he’s young enough to be part of their future without making a difference in the standings. SGA is the most obvious candidate. We will see about him. Jazz don’t have anyone left of interest for us.
Bad teams still rebuilding: Houston, Indiana, Detroit and Orlando. All of these teams will live and die with their young guys and already have a core in place. Eric Gordon will be moved but doesn’t have much appeal at this stage. Houston and Orlando don’t have any intriguing players who aren’t part of the core. Indiana is the big wildcard here. Turner and Hield seemed destined to end up elsewhere soon, but I’ll give you another darkhorse: Chris Duarte . Duarte is 25 and seems a little old for a complete rebuilding team led by Haliburton and Mathurin. Indiana will want a big fish in this draft. Duarte was a big Knicks target and Indiana snagged him for a team that was more win-now. He’s not worth unprotected picks, but Knicks could easily offer protected picks of some combination and Indiana would have to consider. A wing rotation with Barrett, Grimes and Duarte all being 2-way players is really intriguing for the future.
Other teams: Portland (Grant, Hart), Washington (Beal, Kuz), Charlotte (Hayward, Rozier), Sacramento (Fox, Sabonis).
Here are 4 more teams I can see bottoming out and putting the players above on the market. I left Lillard out because I still don’t see it with him. They may convince him the chance to draft wembanyama is too great and they will look to reload again next summer.
With all these teams and players in mind, the ones that really stand out are SGA for obvious reason, and Duarte at a next tier player who will cost less but the team will absolutely have interest in. Obviously a lot can change but this is the landscape as I see it before the season starts.
martin wrote:
Thanks for including this Martin. I should have done the same.
Also for those who like trade proposals. Here’s my offer for Duarte. Reddish, the Dallas pick, and 1 additional protected first round pick from either Washington, Detroit or Milwaukee. On a team that is going to be built around Brunson and Barrett and the ball being in their hands, Duarte is a perfect compliment and doesn’t lessen their ability to go out and get a star.
Knixkik wrote:Also for those who like trade proposals. Here’s my offer for Duarte. Reddish, the Dallas pick, and 1 additional protected first round pick from either Washington, Detroit or Milwaukee. On a team that is going to be built around Brunson and Barrett and the ball being in their hands, Duarte is a perfect compliment and doesn’t lessen their ability to go out and get a star.
I'd hold off on that until we see how Grimes progresses. They could be redundant. Terrance Ross might be an interesting gamble. I could see Harrison Barnes and Kevin Huerter being sold off too. I think the Kings are going to have a rough season.
BigDaddyG wrote:Knixkik wrote:Also for those who like trade proposals. Here’s my offer for Duarte. Reddish, the Dallas pick, and 1 additional protected first round pick from either Washington, Detroit or Milwaukee. On a team that is going to be built around Brunson and Barrett and the ball being in their hands, Duarte is a perfect compliment and doesn’t lessen their ability to go out and get a star.
I'd hold off on that until we see how Grimes progresses. They could be redundant. Terrance Ross might be an interesting gamble. I could see Harrison Barnes and Kevin Huerter being sold off too. I think the Kings are going to have a rough season.
Why not both grimes and Duarte? Their profiles are similar but you need multiple wings who can shoot and defend, particularly with injuries etc.
And good point about Sacramento. Both of those guys are interesting.
Knixkik wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Knixkik wrote:Also for those who like trade proposals. Here’s my offer for Duarte. Reddish, the Dallas pick, and 1 additional protected first round pick from either Washington, Detroit or Milwaukee. On a team that is going to be built around Brunson and Barrett and the ball being in their hands, Duarte is a perfect compliment and doesn’t lessen their ability to go out and get a star.
I'd hold off on that until we see how Grimes progresses. They could be redundant. Terrance Ross might be an interesting gamble. I could see Harrison Barnes and Kevin Huerter being sold off too. I think the Kings are going to have a rough season.
Why not both grimes and Duarte? Their profiles are similar but you need multiple wings who can shoot and defend, particularly with injuries etc.
Yeah, but they're about the same size and have alot of similar slots on the skill tree. I think the Knicks need more size and defenders at the forward slot.
Knixkik wrote:Also for those who like trade proposals. Here’s my offer for Duarte. Reddish, the Dallas pick, and 1 additional protected first round pick from either Washington, Detroit or Milwaukee. On a team that is going to be built around Brunson and Barrett and the ball being in their hands, Duarte is a perfect compliment and doesn’t lessen their ability to go out and get a star.
I think we made a play for Duarte who went 13th. To our surprise Perry/Aller instead dropped back and took Grimes, Rokas, and Deuce.
Duarte is very good but Grimes might be the better value in time. Those two picks could be used in another manner.
Im ok with the chance we are taking with Reddish. The charlotte pick is likely not conveying this year and our need to draft a long wing with that pick and develop is years out. And no guarantee that picks succeeds.
With Reddish there is a window for him.
BigDaddyG wrote:Knixkik wrote:Also for those who like trade proposals. Here’s my offer for Duarte. Reddish, the Dallas pick, and 1 additional protected first round pick from either Washington, Detroit or Milwaukee. On a team that is going to be built around Brunson and Barrett and the ball being in their hands, Duarte is a perfect compliment and doesn’t lessen their ability to go out and get a star.
I'd hold off on that until we see how Grimes progresses. They could be redundant. Terrance Ross might be an interesting gamble. I could see Harrison Barnes and Kevin Huerter being sold off too. I think the Kings are going to have a rough season.
SAC just traded a first round pick and extra FOR Huerter, I think he sticks.
martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Knixkik wrote:Also for those who like trade proposals. Here’s my offer for Duarte. Reddish, the Dallas pick, and 1 additional protected first round pick from either Washington, Detroit or Milwaukee. On a team that is going to be built around Brunson and Barrett and the ball being in their hands, Duarte is a perfect compliment and doesn’t lessen their ability to go out and get a star.
I'd hold off on that until we see how Grimes progresses. They could be redundant. Terrance Ross might be an interesting gamble. I could see Harrison Barnes and Kevin Huerter being sold off too. I think the Kings are going to have a rough season.
SAC just traded a first round pick and extra FOR Huerter, I think he sticks.
Forgot about those trade details. Well... Maybe Cam can develop into that.
Jordan Poole and Kyle Kuzma.
That Knockout game video Greene made of Poole makes me think he isn’t long for the warriors. Grimes and picks could do it. Honestly I would hope they just take picks.
Also Kuzma is a Fournier upgrade….
I dont think most of these move the needle enough to bother. Develop our own guys both individually and in the team concept.
Unless a star wing shakes free (like Ingram) its not enough for me.
Rose and Fournier are good players but clearly stop gaps.
Look at the average age of the other 8 guys in the rotation:
RJ 22
Brunson 26
Grimes 22
IHart 24
IQ 23
Randle 27
Mitch 24
Obi 24
Thats an average age of 24 for that group.
Now is the time you let these guys grow together and get better. Just let the "process" play out a bit here.
Nalod wrote:Knixkik wrote:Also for those who like trade proposals. Here’s my offer for Duarte. Reddish, the Dallas pick, and 1 additional protected first round pick from either Washington, Detroit or Milwaukee. On a team that is going to be built around Brunson and Barrett and the ball being in their hands, Duarte is a perfect compliment and doesn’t lessen their ability to go out and get a star.
I think we made a play for Duarte who went 13th. To our surprise Perry/Aller instead dropped back and took Grimes, Rokas, and Deuce.
Duarte is very good but Grimes might be the better value in time. Those two picks could be used in another manner.
Im ok with the chance we are taking with Reddish. The charlotte pick is likely not conveying this year and our need to draft a long wing with that pick and develop is years out. And no guarantee that picks succeeds.
With Reddish there is a window for him.
Yeah the Knicks really wanted Duarte and tried everything to move up with 19 and 21. In the end he went 13 which was too high to move up. Grimes was plan B. Duarte was attractive to Indiana as a plug and play wing on a team trying to get back into the playoffs. Then they essentially blew it up and added the backcourt of Haliburton, Hield and Mathurin. Haliburton and Mathurin plus who they pick next summer are the future. Duarte can be part of it but I wonder if they would rather just move him to draft younger players.
There will also be that team that is expected to compete or make the playoffs that falls apart and might go into the tank early and sell off their vets. I'd pay very close attention to Miami and Phoenix. I could totally see Riley selling Butler and going into the tank for Wembanyama and the Suns are a team I have a gut feeling will take a significant dive. Booker, CP3 and Ayton might be available.
SergioNYK wrote:There will also be that team that is expected to compete or make the playoffs that falls apart and might go into the tank early and sell off their vets. I'd pay very close attention to Miami and Phoenix. I could totally see Riley selling Butler and going into the tank for Wembanyama and the Suns are a team I have a gut feeling will take a significant dive. Booker, CP3 and Ayton might be available.
Miami never tanks. I doubt they go there.
Looking at Butlers contract one sees it is not easily moved. Have to look at this stuff. His deal expires after this year. 37mm THEN a three year extension at 146mm Guaranteed!!!!
If he don't carry you to playoffs why would any other team take that on AND.......how can they afford it? Plus the guy is a dick if things are not all up to par with him.
Lowrey 2 years nearly 60mm guaranteed.
Would RIles sit them and tank? Its not a bad idea but selling them is another game.
PHX: Paul has 28mm guaranteed this year and next two years not. 15mm next year guaranteed of 30, year after 30mm with none guaranteed.
Key here is Ayton but I don't think this is a tank but he could get traded more likely. Booker I doubt gets sold off.
I think one can nearly imagine many tank scenarios with many teams. Makes more sense to sit guys then sell them off.
wargames wrote:Jordan Poole and Kyle Kuzma.That Knockout game video Greene made of Poole makes me think he isn’t long for the warriors. Grimes and picks could do it. Honestly I would hope they just take picks.
Also Kuzma is a Fournier upgrade….
Im guessing the opposite.That if anyone is moved, it will be Green. I hope the FO makes an offer. Randle for Green. Still believe Dray could bring us very close to contending. If he's healthy, of course. Dray, and one more star would do it.
GustavBahler wrote:wargames wrote:Jordan Poole and Kyle Kuzma.That Knockout game video Greene made of Poole makes me think he isn’t long for the warriors. Grimes and picks could do it. Honestly I would hope they just take picks.
Also Kuzma is a Fournier upgrade….
Im guessing the opposite.That if anyone is moved, it will be Green. I hope the FO makes an offer. Randle for Green. Still believe Dray could bring us very close to contending. If he's healthy, of course. Dray, and one more star would do it.
I agree. Dray suspension cost them a chip in 2016. While Durant had one foot out the door the bullshit he caused with him pushed him all the way. Enough?
Greens has a player option for 27mil for next year and thus he can opt out. He is 32. He played 46 games last year, and previously has been missing games. This is not a guy I want to extend. This is not a guy I want playing long term. He has been great. He has made good money and Im not delusional thinking he will bring the past with him.
He wants that extension. If not he'll be miserable all year and if IM GSW and he does opt in what misery will he continue with?
Move Westbrook to Indy, Indy moves Turner to GSW, Green to lakers and let them extend. He is motivated and has a whole fresh set of shit.
As a knick? I'll pass. on knicks he is a starphuch. we want his former glory. Timeline does not mesh.
Sometimes you cut bait and say good bye.........
Interesting topic and thread -- would all depend on how the Knicks are doing right? Better than we expect then maybe they go for a guy with a bigger contract that adds a round to the playoffs. In the neighborhood of .500 as we mostly foresee than a Duarte type as posted at the top move makes some sense. A young guy with upside who is available but won't cost Ainge like assets. And if we suck then I guess we'd be sellers. Now who would we want to trade....
Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:wargames wrote:Jordan Poole and Kyle Kuzma.That Knockout game video Greene made of Poole makes me think he isn’t long for the warriors. Grimes and picks could do it. Honestly I would hope they just take picks.
Also Kuzma is a Fournier upgrade….
Im guessing the opposite.That if anyone is moved, it will be Green. I hope the FO makes an offer. Randle for Green. Still believe Dray could bring us very close to contending. If he's healthy, of course. Dray, and one more star would do it.
I agree. Dray suspension cost them a chip in 2016. While Durant had one foot out the door the bullshit he caused with him pushed him all the way. Enough?
Greens has a player option for 27mil for next year and thus he can opt out. He is 32. He played 46 games last year, and previously has been missing games. This is not a guy I want to extend. This is not a guy I want playing long term. He has been great. He has made good money and Im not delusional thinking he will bring the past with him.
He wants that extension. If not he'll be miserable all year and if IM GSW and he does opt in what misery will he continue with?
Move Westbrook to Indy, Indy moves Turner to GSW, Green to lakers and let them extend. He is motivated and has a whole fresh set of shit.
As a knick? I'll pass. on knicks he is a starphuch. we want his former glory. Timeline does not mesh.
Sometimes you cut bait and say good bye.........
You can argue Poole is the future but they never won a championship without Draymond, they’ve won three without Poole. I see them being loyal and putting Poole on the market. They were always going to keep two of Wiggins, Draymond, and Poole. This whole situation makes it clear one of the three have to go and just based on salary issues I see them moving Poole. Teams outside of the Knicks would make real offers for him. Draymond not so much. Why would a team outside of a Lakers who are desperate to move Russ trade for a guy who knocked out his team mate during practice?
KnickDanger wrote:So Poole or Duarte?
Neither. No to Duarte because he's potentially redundant to Grimes and no to Poole because I'm not that impressed. Seems one dimensional to me.
