Knicks · Trade targets during the “race to the bottom” (page 2)

KnickDanger wrote:So Poole or Duarte?

Neither. No to Duarte because he's potentially redundant to Grimes and no to Poole because I'm not that impressed. Seems one dimensional to me.

I’m liking the Brunson/Barrett/Randle offense.

I like seeing Cam in the starting lineup. He’s pressing but I think he belongs. Game still needs to slow down for him, even though he is in his 4th year.

I’m watching these guys:

OG Anonunby
Jonathan Isaac

Other teams have good players I would look for, but it’s so hard to predict which teams that look good now will be dumping by the All Star break.

EwingsGlass wrote:I’m liking the Brunson/Barrett/Randle offense.

I like seeing Cam in the starting lineup. He’s pressing but I think he belongs. Game still needs to slow down for him, even though he is in his 4th year.

I’m watching these guys:

OG Anonunby
Jonathan Isaac

Other teams have good players I would look for, but it’s so hard to predict which teams that look good now will be dumping by the All Star break.

I like the idea of Isaac. I'd like to see how much mobility he has left.

BigDaddyG wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:I’m liking the Brunson/Barrett/Randle offense.

I like seeing Cam in the starting lineup. He’s pressing but I think he belongs. Game still needs to slow down for him, even though he is in his 4th year.

I’m watching these guys:

OG Anonunby
Jonathan Isaac

Other teams have good players I would look for, but it’s so hard to predict which teams that look good now will be dumping by the All Star break.

I like the idea of Isaac. I'd like to see how much mobility he has left.

Yeah. The “watch” part is specifically more relevant with him.

BigDaddyG wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:I’m liking the Brunson/Barrett/Randle offense.

I like seeing Cam in the starting lineup. He’s pressing but I think he belongs. Game still needs to slow down for him, even though he is in his 4th year.

I’m watching these guys:

OG Anonunby
Jonathan Isaac

Other teams have good players I would look for, but it’s so hard to predict which teams that look good now will be dumping by the All Star break.

I like the idea of Isaac. I'd like to see how much mobility he has left.

Isaac hasn’t played in like 3 years and can’t shoot though.

KnickDanger wrote:So Poole or Duarte?

Duarte. Better shooter and defender.

Honestly Poole is an opportunity pick up. I think he has a very high offensive ceiling. Plus I would love if the Knicks could rob the warriors for cheap, because we as discussed they really can only ask for so much for him from a player perspective due to their huge luxury tax bill.

If I had to go based on fit, and potential cost it would be Kuzma. I mentioned him in other threads. As a fourth option he potentially is a upgrade to Fournier. He is a versatile wing defender, entering his prime like Brunson and Randle. he’s been a ok 3 pt shooter and can drive to the rim. He’s also a CAA client, a former teammate of Randle from the Baby Lakers, and he and RJ are signed to Puma and do fashion shows together.

Brunson/IQ/Rose
RJ/Grimes/Grimes
Kuzma/Reddish
Randle/Obi
Mitch/IHart/Sims

He is a goofy guy, but not a knucklehead. I think on a good team he could be worth something. He’s not a significant upgrade over Fournier but he also wouldn’t cost significant assets so they can still chase a star later.

Why can’t we be part of the race to the bottom - we can trade Randle!

Only half kidding- I don’t expect us near the top of that race- I’m hoping we just miss the playoffs and defy draft odds for once.

Great thread- perhaps a sticky.

I definitely like Duarte- and I would hope we could bundle a bunch of our picks/with a player to upgrade talent.

Also- doesn’t Cam need to get paid, this year or next? Meaning he isn’t viewed as anything great unless he has an eye opening start to the year this year?

wargames wrote:Honestly Poole is an opportunity pick up. I think he has a very high offensive ceiling. Plus I would love if the Knicks could rob the warriors for cheap, because we as discussed they really can only ask for so much for him from a player perspective due to their huge luxury tax bill.

If I had to go based on fit, and potential cost it would be Kuzma. I mentioned him in other threads. As a fourth option he potentially is a upgrade to Fournier. He is a versatile wing defender, entering his prime like Brunson and Randle. he’s been a ok 3 pt shooter and can drive to the rim. He’s also a CAA client, a former teammate of Randle from the Baby Lakers, and he and RJ are signed to Puma and do fashion shows together.

Brunson/IQ/Rose
RJ/Grimes/Grimes
Kuzma/Reddish
Randle/Obi
Mitch/IHart/Sims

He is a goofy guy, but not a knucklehead. I think on a good team he could be worth something. He’s not a significant upgrade over Fournier but he also wouldn’t cost significant assets so they can still chase a star later.

I don’t see how we could realistically get Poole. I think we have a better chance for Wiggins. As for Kuzma, he makes more sense as a Randle replacement. He’s a PF and isn’t a good enough outside shooter to replace Fournier for this team. Knicks already have minimal spacing they are trying to make up for. Replacing Fournier is the goal, but with someone who can shoot and defend. Grimes could get there. But that is why I’m high on Duarte still as well.

I agree that Utah, Houston, OKC, San Antonio, Orlando, Detroit, and Indiana have little chance at even making the play in. With Wembanyama in the draft it will be a race to the bottom from day one. The Spurs realized this at the deadline when they did the Derrick White trade.

Once a team drops out of the bottom 9, the odds get much worse. 9 has a 4.5% chance at one and 10 has a 3% chance. In the top 4 they are more than 20% and less than 14% respectively. I don't see the Lakers, Kings, Portland, Wizards, or Knicks tanking based on their rosters and offseason.

Charlotte is a big question mark for me. I think they should trade Rozier and tank from the get go but I don't know how that plays with LaMelo and Clifford who are the key guys there.

That race to the bottom 4 will be extremely competitive- you don't want to even try the first month because it will be tough to make up the losses later on. In that tank group I think Utah still has a competitive roster- just good enough to make a top 4 pick impossible if Mike Conley plays the first month or so. Westbrook might sadly be in high demand because he can suck up a lot of players that are helping your team win.

I think all of this won't make a difference to New York. Leon Rose and Thibs like this roster and there doesn't seem to be anyone out there who are significantly better than who the Knicks have or even a reasonable trade candidate on New York because of the players contract lengths. The only possibility is SGA but similar to D Mitchell, it's tough to imagine a trade that could improve New York.

Finally, I think Duarte is an unrealistic target. Who cares about a players age when they are on a rookie contract?

gradyandrew wrote:I agree that Utah, Houston, OKC, San Antonio, Orlando, Detroit, and Indiana have little chance at even making the play in. With Wembanyama in the draft it will be a race to the bottom from day one. The Spurs realized this at the deadline when they did the Derrick White trade.

Once a team drops out of the bottom 9, the odds get much worse. 9 has a 4.5% chance at one and 10 has a 3% chance. In the top 4 they are more than 20% and less than 14% respectively. I don't see the Lakers, Kings, Portland, Wizards, or Knicks tanking based on their rosters and offseason.

Charlotte is a big question mark for me. I think they should trade Rozier and tank from the get go but I don't know how that plays with LaMelo and Clifford who are the key guys there.

That race to the bottom 4 will be extremely competitive- you don't want to even try the first month because it will be tough to make up the losses later on. In that tank group I think Utah still has a competitive roster- just good enough to make a top 4 pick impossible if Mike Conley plays the first month or so. Westbrook might sadly be in high demand because he can suck up a lot of players that are helping your team win.

I think all of this won't make a difference to New York. Leon Rose and Thibs like this roster and there doesn't seem to be anyone out there who are significantly better than who the Knicks have or even a reasonable trade candidate on New York because of the players contract lengths. The only possibility is SGA but similar to D Mitchell, it's tough to imagine a trade that could improve New York.

Finally, I think Duarte is an unrealistic target. Who cares about a players age when they are on a rookie contract?

It’s pretty unbelievable how it’s a race to the bottom for a 14% chance at wembanyama.

The notion of getting rid of all good players to get Webananya and then have to rebuild everything is way to simplistic.
OKC been doing it for years and getting nowhere. Not all picks pan out, SGA is a bit injury prone also.
Since we on the hindsight bandwagon, would lakers have helped themselves by taking Jason Tatum instead of Lonzo Ball. Injury aside, was Ball really a dead lock to be Jason Kidd II?

There is no clear path to see knicks or other teams to greatness. This Webenyana kid might be different. From what I read he is wired to be competitive (not a gentle giant playing ball for money or height) which really matters.
Im down with any process that can get a kid like that here. Only way that really happens is if he flat out says “I only will play for knicks or stay in europe”. Call that bluff costs him tens of millions so I doubt that happens. That and a bogus set of x-rays to lower his value.

Nalod wrote:The notion of getting rid of all good players to get Webananya and then have to rebuild everything is way to simplistic.
OKC been doing it for years and getting nowhere. Not all picks pan out, SGA is a bit injury prone also.
Since we on the hindsight bandwagon, would lakers have helped themselves by taking Jason Tatum instead of Lonzo Ball. Injury aside, was Ball really a dead lock to be Jason Kidd II?

There is no clear path to see knicks or other teams to greatness. This Webenyana kid might be different. From what I read he is wired to be competitive (not a gentle giant playing ball for money or height) which really matters.
Im down with any process that can get a kid like that here. Only way that really happens is if he flat out says “I only will play for knicks or stay in europe”. Call that bluff costs him tens of millions so I doubt that happens. That and a bogus set of x-rays to lower his value.

Popovich became the winningest coach of all time last season by playing this strategy. There's a world of difference between Wembanyama's ceiling as a player and Lonzo and Tatum.

No chance for the Knicks unless things go wrong (no playoffs) and then extremely right (landing the top pick with a <2% chance).

gradyandrew wrote:

Nalod wrote:The notion of getting rid of all good players to get Webananya and then have to rebuild everything is way to simplistic.
OKC been doing it for years and getting nowhere. Not all picks pan out, SGA is a bit injury prone also.
Since we on the hindsight bandwagon, would lakers have helped themselves by taking Jason Tatum instead of Lonzo Ball. Injury aside, was Ball really a dead lock to be Jason Kidd II?

There is no clear path to see knicks or other teams to greatness. This Webenyana kid might be different. From what I read he is wired to be competitive (not a gentle giant playing ball for money or height) which really matters.
Im down with any process that can get a kid like that here. Only way that really happens is if he flat out says “I only will play for knicks or stay in europe”. Call that bluff costs him tens of millions so I doubt that happens. That and a bogus set of x-rays to lower his value.

Popovich became the winningest coach of all time last season by playing this strategy. There's a world of difference between Wembanyama's ceiling as a player and Lonzo and Tatum.

No chance for the Knicks unless things go wrong (no playoffs) and then extremely right (landing the top pick with a <2% chance).

I won’t lie though part of me is glad the Knicks still own all of their unprotected picks because you never know what can happen. I’d always much prefer to remain flexible and acquire players the way we did Brunson than sell the farm.

The tanking days are long gone for this team. Thibs and tanking do not belong not only in the same sentence but also in the same thread. Regarding Popovich, what he/they did is nearly impossible to do now with the new lottery odds. Having 2 players of Tim Duncan's caliber is the only exception, 14%+14% makes for pretty good odds. Will not matter for us tho because Thibs is not gonna tank. I see this year as an opportunity to progress as a team by pushing us higher in the standings, perhaps pushing us further in the playoffs. That's where we are as a team right now. Our rebuild is at the stage where we absolutely have to do better for the next 3-5 years. Let them tank for the lottery and let us continue on our own trajectory

ramtour420 wrote:The tanking days are long gone for this team. Thibs and tanking do not belong not only in the same sentence but also in the same thread. Regarding Popovich, what he/they did is nearly impossible to do now with the new lottery odds. Having 2 players of Tim Duncan's caliber is the only exception, 14%+14% makes for pretty good odds. Will not matter for us tho because Thibs is not gonna tank. I see this year as an opportunity to progress as a team by pushing us higher in the standings, perhaps pushing us further in the playoffs. That's where we are as a team right now. Our rebuild is at the stage where we absolutely have to do better for the next 3-5 years. Let them tank for the lottery and let us continue on our own trajectory

Pop would be happy with either Wembanyama or Henderson no doubt. Would be interesting what okc does with pick 2 if they got it. They have essentially 2 PGs starting already. SGA would definitely be moved. They would also have to try and make Wembanyama and Chet work together if they land #1 but that makes for a clunky lineup. Both are strictly centers. Either way the dynamic will be interesting and I expect a ton of players on the trade market.

Knixkik wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:The tanking days are long gone for this team. Thibs and tanking do not belong not only in the same sentence but also in the same thread. Regarding Popovich, what he/they did is nearly impossible to do now with the new lottery odds. Having 2 players of Tim Duncan's caliber is the only exception, 14%+14% makes for pretty good odds. Will not matter for us tho because Thibs is not gonna tank. I see this year as an opportunity to progress as a team by pushing us higher in the standings, perhaps pushing us further in the playoffs. That's where we are as a team right now. Our rebuild is at the stage where we absolutely have to do better for the next 3-5 years. Let them tank for the lottery and let us continue on our own trajectory

Pop would be happy with either Wembanyama or Henderson no doubt. Would be interesting what okc does with pick 2 if they got it. They have essentially 2 PGs starting already. SGA would definitely be moved. They would also have to try and make Wembanyama and Chet work together if they land #1 but that makes for a clunky lineup. Both are strictly centers. Either way the dynamic will be interesting and I expect a ton of players on the trade market.

You bring Chet off the bench and mature the alien. Maybe he gets injured also. All the while mature them and then trade.

Nalod wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:The tanking days are long gone for this team. Thibs and tanking do not belong not only in the same sentence but also in the same thread. Regarding Popovich, what he/they did is nearly impossible to do now with the new lottery odds. Having 2 players of Tim Duncan's caliber is the only exception, 14%+14% makes for pretty good odds. Will not matter for us tho because Thibs is not gonna tank. I see this year as an opportunity to progress as a team by pushing us higher in the standings, perhaps pushing us further in the playoffs. That's where we are as a team right now. Our rebuild is at the stage where we absolutely have to do better for the next 3-5 years. Let them tank for the lottery and let us continue on our own trajectory

Pop would be happy with either Wembanyama or Henderson no doubt. Would be interesting what okc does with pick 2 if they got it. They have essentially 2 PGs starting already. SGA would definitely be moved. They would also have to try and make Wembanyama and Chet work together if they land #1 but that makes for a clunky lineup. Both are strictly centers. Either way the dynamic will be interesting and I expect a ton of players on the trade market.

You bring Chet off the bench and mature the alien. Maybe he gets injured also. All the while mature them and then trade.

Naw, you go full on crazy. Poku, Wemba and Chet in the same starting lineup. Shake it up. SGA and Giddy in the same backcourt. They go small, you go big! Make Dikembe the head coach!

I'm all in on Dikembe!

Knixkik wrote:

wargames wrote:Honestly Poole is an opportunity pick up. I think he has a very high offensive ceiling. Plus I would love if the Knicks could rob the warriors for cheap, because we as discussed they really can only ask for so much for him from a player perspective due to their huge luxury tax bill.

If I had to go based on fit, and potential cost it would be Kuzma. I mentioned him in other threads. As a fourth option he potentially is a upgrade to Fournier. He is a versatile wing defender, entering his prime like Brunson and Randle. he’s been a ok 3 pt shooter and can drive to the rim. He’s also a CAA client, a former teammate of Randle from the Baby Lakers, and he and RJ are signed to Puma and do fashion shows together.

Brunson/IQ/Rose
RJ/Grimes/Grimes
Kuzma/Reddish
Randle/Obi
Mitch/IHart/Sims

He is a goofy guy, but not a knucklehead. I think on a good team he could be worth something. He’s not a significant upgrade over Fournier but he also wouldn’t cost significant assets so they can still chase a star later.

I don’t see how we could realistically get Poole. I think we have a better chance for Wiggins. As for Kuzma, he makes more sense as a Randle replacement. He’s a PF and isn’t a good enough outside shooter to replace Fournier for this team. Knicks already have minimal spacing they are trying to make up for. Replacing Fournier is the goal, but with someone who can shoot and defend. Grimes could get there. But that is why I’m high on Duarte still as well.

This was them on the lakers but both Randle and Kuzma are better players now.

You are right they give up 3 pt scoring percentage but I think Kuzma is a combo SF/PF (like Danilo Galinari was until late in his career) that stretches the floor just like Fournier. Kuzma is just a more versatile defender. Also honestly he is a younger piece entering his prime while Fournier is beginning to leave his.

The Knicks might be able to get him back for the wizards own pick too because the Wizards cap situation is pretty bad for a team that hasn’t been on the playoffs in years.

I think the Knicks greatest deficit right now is playing time minutes. I see players that put the time in over the summer, came to camp absolutely in the best shape of their lives and are going to be fighting tooth and nail for minutes.

That said, haven’t seen the SL look much better than the first two games of preseason. Clearly preseason agains teams projected to be bad, but the ball movement, spacing and pace look different than last year. I’m a fan.