Knicks · Trade targets during the “race to the bottom” (page 3)
That said, haven’t seen the SL look much better than the first two games of preseason. Clearly preseason agains teams projected to be bad, but the ball movement, spacing and pace look different than last year. I’m a fan.
gradyandrew wrote:I agree that Utah, Houston, OKC, San Antonio, Orlando, Detroit, and Indiana have little chance at even making the play in. With Wembanyama in the draft it will be a race to the bottom from day one. The Spurs realized this at the deadline when they did the Derrick White trade.Once a team drops out of the bottom 9, the odds get much worse. 9 has a 4.5% chance at one and 10 has a 3% chance. In the top 4 they are more than 20% and less than 14% respectively. I don't see the Lakers, Kings, Portland, Wizards, or Knicks tanking based on their rosters and offseason.
Charlotte is a big question mark for me. I think they should trade Rozier and tank from the get go but I don't know how that plays with LaMelo and Clifford who are the key guys there.
That race to the bottom 4 will be extremely competitive- you don't want to even try the first month because it will be tough to make up the losses later on. In that tank group I think Utah still has a competitive roster- just good enough to make a top 4 pick impossible if Mike Conley plays the first month or so. Westbrook might sadly be in high demand because he can suck up a lot of players that are helping your team win.
I think all of this won't make a difference to New York. Leon Rose and Thibs like this roster and there doesn't seem to be anyone out there who are significantly better than who the Knicks have or even a reasonable trade candidate on New York because of the players contract lengths. The only possibility is SGA but similar to D Mitchell, it's tough to imagine a trade that could improve New York.
Finally, I think Duarte is an unrealistic target. Who cares about a players age when they are on a rookie contract?
Forgot to mention the bulls. They keep their first rd pick if they finish top 4 and they won’t be good this year with lonzo falling apart and Derozan exposure
Maybe the bulls give us Lavine if we agree to take on the remainder of Derozan contract
Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:I agree that Utah, Houston, OKC, San Antonio, Orlando, Detroit, and Indiana have little chance at even making the play in. With Wembanyama in the draft it will be a race to the bottom from day one. The Spurs realized this at the deadline when they did the Derrick White trade.Once a team drops out of the bottom 9, the odds get much worse. 9 has a 4.5% chance at one and 10 has a 3% chance. In the top 4 they are more than 20% and less than 14% respectively. I don't see the Lakers, Kings, Portland, Wizards, or Knicks tanking based on their rosters and offseason.
Charlotte is a big question mark for me. I think they should trade Rozier and tank from the get go but I don't know how that plays with LaMelo and Clifford who are the key guys there.
That race to the bottom 4 will be extremely competitive- you don't want to even try the first month because it will be tough to make up the losses later on. In that tank group I think Utah still has a competitive roster- just good enough to make a top 4 pick impossible if Mike Conley plays the first month or so. Westbrook might sadly be in high demand because he can suck up a lot of players that are helping your team win.
I think all of this won't make a difference to New York. Leon Rose and Thibs like this roster and there doesn't seem to be anyone out there who are significantly better than who the Knicks have or even a reasonable trade candidate on New York because of the players contract lengths. The only possibility is SGA but similar to D Mitchell, it's tough to imagine a trade that could improve New York.
Finally, I think Duarte is an unrealistic target. Who cares about a players age when they are on a rookie contract?
Forgot to mention the bulls. They keep their first rd pick if they finish top 4 and they won’t be good this year with lonzo falling apart and Derozan exposure
Maybe the bulls give us Lavine if we agree to take on the remainder of Derozan contract
The bulls have traded a ton of future picks for that team, I can’t see them blowing it up.
EwingsGlass wrote:I think the Knicks greatest deficit right now is playing time minutes. I see players that put the time in over the summer, came to camp absolutely in the best shape of their lives and are going to be fighting tooth and nail for minutes.That said, haven’t seen the SL look much better than the first two games of preseason. Clearly preseason agains teams projected to be bad, but the ball movement, spacing and pace look different than last year. I’m a fan.
More than a few times we've gone into a season with a glut at a certain position, only to find the coach had to play the last available player at that position.
Agree about some players looking more fit than last season. Knicks seemed to wear out the Pacers, they had trouble keeping up. That was a big part of the Riley Knicks success.
Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:I agree that Utah, Houston, OKC, San Antonio, Orlando, Detroit, and Indiana have little chance at even making the play in. With Wembanyama in the draft it will be a race to the bottom from day one. The Spurs realized this at the deadline when they did the Derrick White trade.Once a team drops out of the bottom 9, the odds get much worse. 9 has a 4.5% chance at one and 10 has a 3% chance. In the top 4 they are more than 20% and less than 14% respectively. I don't see the Lakers, Kings, Portland, Wizards, or Knicks tanking based on their rosters and offseason.
Charlotte is a big question mark for me. I think they should trade Rozier and tank from the get go but I don't know how that plays with LaMelo and Clifford who are the key guys there.
That race to the bottom 4 will be extremely competitive- you don't want to even try the first month because it will be tough to make up the losses later on. In that tank group I think Utah still has a competitive roster- just good enough to make a top 4 pick impossible if Mike Conley plays the first month or so. Westbrook might sadly be in high demand because he can suck up a lot of players that are helping your team win.
I think all of this won't make a difference to New York. Leon Rose and Thibs like this roster and there doesn't seem to be anyone out there who are significantly better than who the Knicks have or even a reasonable trade candidate on New York because of the players contract lengths. The only possibility is SGA but similar to D Mitchell, it's tough to imagine a trade that could improve New York.
Finally, I think Duarte is an unrealistic target. Who cares about a players age when they are on a rookie contract?
Forgot to mention the bulls. They keep their first rd pick if they finish top 4 and they won’t be good this year with lonzo falling apart and Derozan exposure
Maybe the bulls give us Lavine if we agree to take on the remainder of Derozan contract
With top 4 protection it will be really hard to tank that hard. Blowing it up runs the risk of losing for years, sending out a lottery pick, and no way to recover. Much more likely for them to look for an upgrade on the trade market. Lonzo Ball for Mike Conley for example.
Alpha1971 wrote:What if the Clippers start off slow and realize they are an old squad without draft picks and decide to shed PG and KL like Utah did Mitchell and Gobert but with two much older and unhealthier players so their asking price is lower . Would you include expirings like Rose and Cam, unprotected picks ( 2 ) and a young player like Grimes, IQ for KL ?
These teams without future picks can’t afford to shed. They are all in. Do the Clippers even have a pick in 2023? It’s not like Utah where they can load up on pick because the clippers don’t have any to begin with.
Alpha1971 wrote:Clippers won't be tanking. Yet, they would be selling assets to regain draft capital and shed contracts.
You are suggesting that the contracts they would shed are KL and possibly PG which no sane person would start the convo at that point.
It's a no-brainer end of discussion.
Like most things they get over hyped. Not saying The Alien talent is but the noise that surrounds it. All good stuff for the league and the fans.
Makes Utah’s ownership and AInge, Along with Spurs owner, along with Brian Wright (GM) looking good for shedding assets over the summer. Young teams like Rockets and Orlando might not have to do much but play their kids alot and let them stumble. Ownership has to be on board with it as it can be a shit show for season ticketholders. As good as “scoot” henderson is you don’t trash a year for him. The Alien? Its a gamble. Odds are low even if you succeed. Its a good draft and getting a top 2 or 3 pick is about 40% or a bit better. 14.5% for the top pick. Thats not great.
Nalod wrote:Not since lebron has there been this kind of hype and “Tank Talk” before the season started. In fact, never has been a prospect talked about before the NBA season even played a game!
Like most things they get over hyped. Not saying The Alien talent is but the noise that surrounds it. All good stuff for the league and the fans.
Makes Utah’s ownership and AInge, Along with Spurs owner, along with Brian Wright (GM) looking good for shedding assets over the summer. Young teams like Rockets and Orlando might not have to do much but play their kids alot and let them stumble. Ownership has to be on board with it as it can be a shit show for season ticketholders. As good as “scoot” henderson is you don’t trash a year for him. The Alien? Its a gamble. Odds are low even if you succeed. Its a good draft and getting a top 2 or 3 pick is about 40% or a bit better. 14.5% for the top pick. Thats not great.
I wonder about that. Wemby is a maybe a once in a generation type of prospect, but Scoot's rapid progression as a kid playing against pros is impressive. I think he's more impressive as a prospect coming in than Ja. Outside of maybe the Zion draft, I think Scoot goes #1 easy in the past several drafts. Yes, he even goes ahead of Luka. Not saying he's better than Luka, just going off of predrafy scouting reports at the time.
it's a deep draft, obviously, but ultimately picks are lotto tickets. I would argue that 2023 picks/lotto tickets are more valuable now than who we likely will get in the draft...
long way of saying I think we could get established players cheaper this year than it would otherwise normally be
SupremeCommander wrote:the more I think about it, the more willing I am to trade our 2023 picksit's a deep draft, obviously, but ultimately picks are lotto tickets. I would argue that 2023 picks/lotto tickets are more valuable now than who we likely will get in the draft...
long way of saying I think we could get established players cheaper this year than it would otherwise normally be
teams looking to tank might agree with you. We really can’t use all our picks over the next few years. We need to consolidate either by moving up or using the picks as currency. While I don’t advocate trading grimes the notion of moving him with a pick or two might yield a very good return. He is on a very friendly contract.
Moving Randle or EF most likley goes to a contending team.
I understand PHX moving from Crowder at this time, and Cam Johnson in his place is a big offensive upgrade but they lose a bit of grit and toughness. Money aside (it matters) Crowder/Plus something for Randle makes sense for them. Promote Obi and crowder is back up. Might not make Crowder happy but im just doing shit on paper. The bigger deal of Crowder/Ayton for Mitch/Randle is debatable on both accounts. Mitch in a game 7 playoff game with little offensive game and foul shooting would be the issue. this can’t happen until January and plenty of time to see if Mitch has evolved some of that. If Ayton and his coach have made up and playing nice and they are cruising this never becomes an issue. if team is for sale new ownership might not want that asset moved.
Until then we have opening night and all the fun that goes with that!
SupremeCommander wrote:the more I think about it, the more willing I am to trade our 2023 picksit's a deep draft, obviously, but ultimately picks are lotto tickets. I would argue that 2023 picks/lotto tickets are more valuable now than who we likely will get in the draft...
long way of saying I think we could get established players cheaper this year than it would otherwise normally be
Agreed also the Knicks are likely getting that Mavs pick too. So right now the Knicks are looking at either a end of lottery pick and a pick in the 20’s are two picks in the 20’s. I think they split the difference keep one of those picks and then use the other one to upgrade the roster.
Knixkik wrote:Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:I agree that Utah, Houston, OKC, San Antonio, Orlando, Detroit, and Indiana have little chance at even making the play in. With Wembanyama in the draft it will be a race to the bottom from day one. The Spurs realized this at the deadline when they did the Derrick White trade.Once a team drops out of the bottom 9, the odds get much worse. 9 has a 4.5% chance at one and 10 has a 3% chance. In the top 4 they are more than 20% and less than 14% respectively. I don't see the Lakers, Kings, Portland, Wizards, or Knicks tanking based on their rosters and offseason.
Charlotte is a big question mark for me. I think they should trade Rozier and tank from the get go but I don't know how that plays with LaMelo and Clifford who are the key guys there.
That race to the bottom 4 will be extremely competitive- you don't want to even try the first month because it will be tough to make up the losses later on. In that tank group I think Utah still has a competitive roster- just good enough to make a top 4 pick impossible if Mike Conley plays the first month or so. Westbrook might sadly be in high demand because he can suck up a lot of players that are helping your team win.
I think all of this won't make a difference to New York. Leon Rose and Thibs like this roster and there doesn't seem to be anyone out there who are significantly better than who the Knicks have or even a reasonable trade candidate on New York because of the players contract lengths. The only possibility is SGA but similar to D Mitchell, it's tough to imagine a trade that could improve New York.
Finally, I think Duarte is an unrealistic target. Who cares about a players age when they are on a rookie contract?
Forgot to mention the bulls. They keep their first rd pick if they finish top 4 and they won’t be good this year with lonzo falling apart and Derozan exposure
Maybe the bulls give us Lavine if we agree to take on the remainder of Derozan contractThe bulls have traded a ton of future picks for that team, I can’t see them blowing it up.
The bulls are going to have a very rough year. They have to finish top 4 in the draft to keep their first round pick I can see them in full on tank mode by December
gradyandrew wrote:Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:I agree that Utah, Houston, OKC, San Antonio, Orlando, Detroit, and Indiana have little chance at even making the play in. With Wembanyama in the draft it will be a race to the bottom from day one. The Spurs realized this at the deadline when they did the Derrick White trade.Once a team drops out of the bottom 9, the odds get much worse. 9 has a 4.5% chance at one and 10 has a 3% chance. In the top 4 they are more than 20% and less than 14% respectively. I don't see the Lakers, Kings, Portland, Wizards, or Knicks tanking based on their rosters and offseason.
Charlotte is a big question mark for me. I think they should trade Rozier and tank from the get go but I don't know how that plays with LaMelo and Clifford who are the key guys there.
That race to the bottom 4 will be extremely competitive- you don't want to even try the first month because it will be tough to make up the losses later on. In that tank group I think Utah still has a competitive roster- just good enough to make a top 4 pick impossible if Mike Conley plays the first month or so. Westbrook might sadly be in high demand because he can suck up a lot of players that are helping your team win.
I think all of this won't make a difference to New York. Leon Rose and Thibs like this roster and there doesn't seem to be anyone out there who are significantly better than who the Knicks have or even a reasonable trade candidate on New York because of the players contract lengths. The only possibility is SGA but similar to D Mitchell, it's tough to imagine a trade that could improve New York.
Finally, I think Duarte is an unrealistic target. Who cares about a players age when they are on a rookie contract?
Forgot to mention the bulls. They keep their first rd pick if they finish top 4 and they won’t be good this year with lonzo falling apart and Derozan exposure
Maybe the bulls give us Lavine if we agree to take on the remainder of Derozan contractWith top 4 protection it will be really hard to tank that hard. Blowing it up runs the risk of losing for years, sending out a lottery pick, and no way to recover. Much more likely for them to look for an upgrade on the trade market. Lonzo Ball for Mike Conley for example.
No it’s not. If the bulls have the worst or second worst record they are basically guaranteed at worst the 4 pick
Alpha1971 wrote:Clippers won't be tanking. Yet, they would be selling assets to regain draft capital and shed contracts.
John Wall looked good if a little gun shy. They've gone more athletic than shooter over the years, but they feel more like buyers at the deadline than sellers. I see them picking up like an Eric Gordon and center with some of their middling pieces.
Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:I agree that Utah, Houston, OKC, San Antonio, Orlando, Detroit, and Indiana have little chance at even making the play in. With Wembanyama in the draft it will be a race to the bottom from day one. The Spurs realized this at the deadline when they did the Derrick White trade.Once a team drops out of the bottom 9, the odds get much worse. 9 has a 4.5% chance at one and 10 has a 3% chance. In the top 4 they are more than 20% and less than 14% respectively. I don't see the Lakers, Kings, Portland, Wizards, or Knicks tanking based on their rosters and offseason.
Charlotte is a big question mark for me. I think they should trade Rozier and tank from the get go but I don't know how that plays with LaMelo and Clifford who are the key guys there.
That race to the bottom 4 will be extremely competitive- you don't want to even try the first month because it will be tough to make up the losses later on. In that tank group I think Utah still has a competitive roster- just good enough to make a top 4 pick impossible if Mike Conley plays the first month or so. Westbrook might sadly be in high demand because he can suck up a lot of players that are helping your team win.
I think all of this won't make a difference to New York. Leon Rose and Thibs like this roster and there doesn't seem to be anyone out there who are significantly better than who the Knicks have or even a reasonable trade candidate on New York because of the players contract lengths. The only possibility is SGA but similar to D Mitchell, it's tough to imagine a trade that could improve New York.
Finally, I think Duarte is an unrealistic target. Who cares about a players age when they are on a rookie contract?
Forgot to mention the bulls. They keep their first rd pick if they finish top 4 and they won’t be good this year with lonzo falling apart and Derozan exposure
Maybe the bulls give us Lavine if we agree to take on the remainder of Derozan contractWith top 4 protection it will be really hard to tank that hard. Blowing it up runs the risk of losing for years, sending out a lottery pick, and no way to recover. Much more likely for them to look for an upgrade on the trade market. Lonzo Ball for Mike Conley for example.
No it’s not. If the bulls have the worst or second worst record they are basically guaranteed at worst the 4 pick
Summary of Bulls Draft Picks
In short, the Bulls own:Their own first-round picks in: 2024, 2026-2030
The Trail Blazers' first-round pick in: 2023, or whenever Portland's pick next falls outside the top 14 in the draft order
Their own second-round picks in: 2026-2030
The Nuggets' second-round pick in: 2023, if the pick falls 47th or later in the draft orderAnd the Bulls owe:
First-round picks in: 2023 (Magic), 2025 (Spurs)
Second-round picks in: 2023 (Lakers), 2024 (Pelicans), 2025 (Spurs)
However, the Bulls are required to forfeit the next second-round pick they receive, whether it be the Nuggets pick or their own. They also cannot trade their first-round picks in 2024 or 2026 until the night of those drafts, and would have hoops to jump through to trade any future picks beyond that.
It takes so little effort to obtain some degree of accuracy before spewing out a response. When you do it like its a fact, and its not, the arrogance makes you look really silly.
Now, tell us again why Bulls are tanking again?
Derozen had a great season last year. Why in preseason would you say they give us Lavine if we take on Derozens contract?
Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:I agree that Utah, Houston, OKC, San Antonio, Orlando, Detroit, and Indiana have little chance at even making the play in. With Wembanyama in the draft it will be a race to the bottom from day one. The Spurs realized this at the deadline when they did the Derrick White trade.Once a team drops out of the bottom 9, the odds get much worse. 9 has a 4.5% chance at one and 10 has a 3% chance. In the top 4 they are more than 20% and less than 14% respectively. I don't see the Lakers, Kings, Portland, Wizards, or Knicks tanking based on their rosters and offseason.
Charlotte is a big question mark for me. I think they should trade Rozier and tank from the get go but I don't know how that plays with LaMelo and Clifford who are the key guys there.
That race to the bottom 4 will be extremely competitive- you don't want to even try the first month because it will be tough to make up the losses later on. In that tank group I think Utah still has a competitive roster- just good enough to make a top 4 pick impossible if Mike Conley plays the first month or so. Westbrook might sadly be in high demand because he can suck up a lot of players that are helping your team win.
I think all of this won't make a difference to New York. Leon Rose and Thibs like this roster and there doesn't seem to be anyone out there who are significantly better than who the Knicks have or even a reasonable trade candidate on New York because of the players contract lengths. The only possibility is SGA but similar to D Mitchell, it's tough to imagine a trade that could improve New York.
Finally, I think Duarte is an unrealistic target. Who cares about a players age when they are on a rookie contract?
Forgot to mention the bulls. They keep their first rd pick if they finish top 4 and they won’t be good this year with lonzo falling apart and Derozan exposure
Maybe the bulls give us Lavine if we agree to take on the remainder of Derozan contractWith top 4 protection it will be really hard to tank that hard. Blowing it up runs the risk of losing for years, sending out a lottery pick, and no way to recover. Much more likely for them to look for an upgrade on the trade market. Lonzo Ball for Mike Conley for example.
No it’s not. If the bulls have the worst or second worst record they are basically guaranteed at worst the 4 pick
Summary of Bulls Draft Picks
In short, the Bulls own:Their own first-round picks in: 2024, 2026-2030
The Trail Blazers' first-round pick in: 2023, or whenever Portland's pick next falls outside the top 14 in the draft order
Their own second-round picks in: 2026-2030
The Nuggets' second-round pick in: 2023, if the pick falls 47th or later in the draft orderAnd the Bulls owe:
First-round picks in: 2023 (Magic), 2025 (Spurs)
Second-round picks in: 2023 (Lakers), 2024 (Pelicans), 2025 (Spurs)
However, the Bulls are required to forfeit the next second-round pick they receive, whether it be the Nuggets pick or their own. They also cannot trade their first-round picks in 2024 or 2026 until the night of those drafts, and would have hoops to jump through to trade any future picks beyond that.
It takes so little effort to obtain some degree of accuracy before spewing out a response. When you do it like its a fact, and its not, the arrogance makes you look really silly.
Now, tell us again why Bulls are tanking again?
Derozen had a great season last year. Why in preseason would you say they give us Lavine if we take on Derozens contract?
The bulls keep their 2023 first round pick in 2023 if they miss the playoffs this season and finish top 4 in the draft. Literally all I said. You are still on some wierd Elfrid Payton revenge vendetta and make yourself look dumber by the post
https://news.yahoo.com/bulls-draft-picks-look-teams-161457520.html
As for looking dumber by the post? Ten steps forward and two back.
I have a way to catch up to you.