Knicks · Those who wanted to salary dump Randle… (page 6)

SergioNYK wrote:I don't think this Randle is sustainable so I'd trade him right now 100% while he's playing like this.

YOu might be right. But there are 29 other teams with scouts that are never right either. Your view might be legit but its that way because of his trade value.
He is playing well, so what we know is the talent is there. With many players the circumstances have to be correct. Other GM"s know of his inconsistency and likely have better handle on him than we do.

My guess is he is not on the knicks "Untouchable" list. So Leon and Co. have an assigned value IF anyone comes a calling.
Lets say he finishes strong this year. Under Thibs, in this environment its two of three seasons he is allstar.
What in gods name happened last year that he self sabotaged himself and the team? Answer that and perhaps we understand if its a controllable situation or that inconsistency sustains.

I don't see anyone on the team as untouchable where it concerns making the team better. Where I and others have the big issue was the imbecilic ranting to dump Randle in a way that made the team actually worse and stripped assets. And yeah, defending it with the "that Randle" nonsense is typical. Gasbags are never wrong.

ramtour420 wrote:Randle is unstable. He is the stock that has gone up. Yes he is physical. Yes he shoots and makes the 3. Yes he can pass it. Unstoppable around the hoop. He does offer adequate defense at his position. He is without a doubt a valuable player at his salary. We can get an asset that fits our team better out of him. We definitely should at this point

Funny. You acknowledge the above yet you claim we definitely should trade him?
His stock has always been the same. Double double guy that is extremely physical, gets boards and bulls over PF's but one that needs a NBA PG to facilitate and an elite number one around him to help take him deeper in the playoffs.

But okay, who is the asset available and that wants to play here that fits our team better and can provide the same type of physicality and production?

blkexec wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

blkexec wrote:Fish not running from your question or whoever asked me the original question on Obi and if he’s a starting PF on a good team. I’m paraphrasing the question a bit.

It’s like someone saying rose and EF are better players than deuce. I need to know what you call better before I can answer. Because depending on the person’s definition of good, rose and EF might be better than deuce. Rose is more established and can beat his man off the dribble (deuce can’t yet). EF broke the Knicks 3 pt record (deuce shoots air balls). By this definition deuce is a terrible starter or rotation player compared to rose and EF.

By the way, this ship has sailed but I’m giving you a hypothetical response. What if Obi had the same impact on the team (offensively) like deuce has now (defensively)? If deuce didnt get the playing time he’s getting now, the same fans would ask the same questions and have the same doubt. Deuce is not better than rose, EF or cam. But if we stuck with that and never gave him mins we wouldn’t see this 4 game winning streak.

You don’t always have to replace a player with a better player. That’s video game management. My thinking back then was Obi could have the same impact but from a different skill set like providing easy buckets. I’m just saying deuce looks totally different with consistent PT. And sometimes young players need that. Obi is also a late bloomer. Wasn’t this good until late in his college career. So that was my motivation then. That ship is slowly sailing now.

You have always argued that Thibs does not give the unproven players enough playing time to prove themselves. Some on here, including myself, have argued that a player has to show something when given the chance. No matter the amount of minutes. Also that coaches have a better idea who deserves playing time due to their insight in practice. IQ, Grimes and now Deuce are proof of that. Are you now claiming Obi needs more than 18 minutes a game for three years to show more? Let alone, by giving him the minutes of our best player/All Star who is much better than him?

Btw, imho, a player is better based on CONSISTENT production/contribution to a team over other options. Rose was a much better PG than Deuce last year. He was not been that this year. Reason why Deuce is playing.

So I've had SO MANY DISCUSSIONS on this, I'm confused now. What players did I complain about? I must be getting old.

I complained about Deuce not getting PT when Kemba was removed. Instead Thibs went with Burks, who I like. But after 10 or so games, it was clear that Burks wasn't the answer. So yes I complained about Thibs going with are staying with Burks at PG, who's a SG / SF.

I complained about Obi not getting PT, and thats directed at the FO who drafted him. But I did want to see Obi and Randle play together since we drafted Obi #8 and Randle is our best player so he's not going anywhere, and Thibs refuse to try that combination, until pre-season and the beginning of this season.

Next comment about unproven players. You know who was UNPROVEN at PG? Burks. So I don't think you have your story right because clearly he gave Burks time at PG and he never played PG at the NBA level. Probably at the college level, but I haven't done that level of research. So that can't be true. Hopefully I cleaned that up for you. That way we can have a decent discussion. If I'm wrong, and sound like I'm going back and forth, let me know. But I'm trying to be as consistent as possible. Kinda hard when a discussion is finally over, but you as an example, brings it back to life, while mis-quoting me at the same time. Kinda exhausting if you ask me, but thats what forums are for I guess. Its very easy to mix up things because different people in this chat complains about thibs. But all the complaints are really slightly different.

Next you claim a player has to show something when given a chance? Thats false. Thibs clearly saw Burks was not the answer and didn't show that he's a competent PG, yet he stayed in that roll for the rest of the season. So that statement is only true in your head, not according to Thibs. We also don't see what happens in practice. I think I mentioned this before. So none of us can talk about something we can't see. Nobody is in these practices to see anything. We all (including you) are fabricating just to make your point valid. If you work on the coaching staff, then I'm all ears. Otherwise this is just bar room talk between fans, without any facts to back it up.

Next comment. IQ, Grimes and Deuce are proof that they did what exactly in practice? Please share some facts on this. Otherwise you / we are just guessing Thibs does this in practice because thats our expectations of Thibs and any NBA coach. I get it. But again, none of us are in these practices.

Next comment. Please tell me when and where did I say Obi now needs 18 minutes a game for three years? I said why draft a player at #8 just to play 15 mins or less as a backup? The FO is very savy and I know for a fact, if the pick was to backup Randle, they would've traded the #8 pick and moved down in the draft. Thats what history tells me so thats what I go by with this FO. Thats what I said. I also said, that ship is slowly sailing now. Randle is playing at an all star level. Obi hasn't shown enough in the little minutes he got. I do blame his regression on the coaching staff and I blame the FO in selecting him. This is called asset management. Right now, can we get a #8 pick for Obi? I will wait on your answer..................... Thats called bad asset management. That blame is shared between the coaching staff (I will stop saying Thibs cause it's now being used as a weapon). But it's between the coaching staff and the FO for bad asset management across the board.

Yes, Several topics.

1. Thibs went with Burks after Kemba was hurt. He immediately made an impact and we won a game and looked really good. (ie, showed something when given chance. Another thing you disagreed with) He also went with IQ a lot. Another player who had proven more than Deuce.

2. You asked who I was talking about but once again stated above you complained about Obi not getting enough minutes. I disagreed. Feel he has. And, as you agreed, has not shown enough to warrant additional playing time.

3. Unproven players. Burks was unproven as a PG. But "proved" he was viable the first chance he got. Burks had a proven track record in NBA experience and as a solid producer. Yet you ignore those details as to why Thibs chose to go with him over a player who was unproven in all facets.

4. Burks absolutely took advantage of "the chance". As explained previously.

5. Agree that we are not able to see what happens in practice. The difference is that my assumption that Deuce had not shown much in practice is because the coaching staff did not give him more playing time. As is my view that IQ and Grimes probably did. You prefer to think that Deuce had shown something in practice but was still not given the right to take over the starting PG position. So who is making assumptions about something we do not see? Or what else were you basing your take that Deuce should be handed the starting PG job?

5. Drafting Obi. I do agree we should not have drafted Obi. I wanted him as well and have confessed that it would have been better to fill a much bigger need in PG. My rational, as in all drafts, was to pick BPO with highest ceiling. But do think you made good points on why the FO should have passed.

SergioNYK wrote:I don't think this Randle is sustainable so I'd trade him right now 100% while he's playing like this.

Wait, he will keep this up so we better trade him before its too late?
Rare take. I thought I had seen all the "trade Randle" posts on these boards.

Think I am hoping RJ really gets it together and starts passing and picks up his shooting so we can trade him.
Hoping JB starts lighting it up again and grows a few inches in order to defend better, so that we can then trade him
Hope Grimes starts shooting in the 50's from three so we can trade him.
Hope Obi gets healthy and comes back with a new attack game and becomes a rebounding fiend, wo that we can trade him.

The other thing FO and staff would tell you about Randle: He is the only guy teams would consistently double. That's huge for everyone else. He has gravity in a way others on the team outside of Brunson do not have.

No Randle - without a similar return - and offense because much harder for everyone else. And then teams just mostly have to key off of Brunson.

martin wrote:The other thing FO and staff would tell you about Randle: He is the only guy teams would consistently double. That's huge for everyone else. He has gravity in a way others on the team outside of Brunson do not have.

No Randle - without a similar return - and offense because much harder for everyone else. And then teams just mostly have to key off of Brunson.

You’re right. While Brunson has been the best player and takes over when it matters, Randle continues to pull just as much if not more attention from defenses whether he makes them pay or not. Teams don’t trust defenders one on one against Randle.

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:The other thing FO and staff would tell you about Randle: He is the only guy teams would consistently double. That's huge for everyone else. He has gravity in a way others on the team outside of Brunson do not have.

No Randle - without a similar return - and offense because much harder for everyone else. And then teams just mostly have to key off of Brunson.

You’re right. While Brunson has been the best player and takes over when it matters, Randle continues to pull just as much if not more attention from defenses whether he makes them pay or not. Teams don’t trust defenders one on one against Randle.

It's a little cynical but Randle even at his worst shields other young guys from their glaring mistakes cause all eyeballs are still on him. He can definitely be a knucklehead but he still gets the attention of defenses and all the fans/media.

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:The other thing FO and staff would tell you about Randle: He is the only guy teams would consistently double. That's huge for everyone else. He has gravity in a way others on the team outside of Brunson do not have.

No Randle - without a similar return - and offense because much harder for everyone else. And then teams just mostly have to key off of Brunson.

You’re right. While Brunson has been the best player and takes over when it matters, Randle continues to pull just as much if not more attention from defenses whether he makes them pay or not. Teams don’t trust defenders one on one against Randle.

It's a little cynical but Randle even at his worst shields other young guys from their glaring mistakes cause all eyeballs are still on him. He can definitely be a knucklehead but he still gets the attention of defenses and all the fans/media.

So much like Melo was, Randle is stuck between most frustrating and most under appreciated knick ever.

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:The other thing FO and staff would tell you about Randle: He is the only guy teams would consistently double. That's huge for everyone else. He has gravity in a way others on the team outside of Brunson do not have.

No Randle - without a similar return - and offense because much harder for everyone else. And then teams just mostly have to key off of Brunson.

You’re right. While Brunson has been the best player and takes over when it matters, Randle continues to pull just as much if not more attention from defenses whether he makes them pay or not. Teams don’t trust defenders one on one against Randle.

It's a little cynical but Randle even at his worst shields other young guys from their glaring mistakes cause all eyeballs are still on him. He can definitely be a knucklehead but he still gets the attention of defenses and all the fans/media.

So much like Melo was, Randle is stuck between most frustrating and most under appreciated knick ever.

You are right. Different dispositions but same deal

HofstraBBall wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:I don't think this Randle is sustainable so I'd trade him right now 100% while he's playing like this.

Wait, he will keep this up so we better trade him before its too late?
Rare take. I thought I had seen all the "trade Randle" posts on these boards.

Think I am hoping RJ really gets it together and starts passing and picks up his shooting so we can trade him.
Hoping JB starts lighting it up again and grows a few inches in order to defend better, so that we can then trade him
Hope Grimes starts

I don’t get the infatuation you have with people wanting to trade Randle. It’s like some of you just spend time hunting down all the “trade Randle” post. It’s a waste of time. If they want to trade him? Ok. People used to say deuce not an nba player. Now those people are quiet.

Let’s say we trade Randle and the team chemistry improves, you will also go into some corner and hide.

Trade the entire team if it makes us better, why not. As much as I love grimes and deuce, I would trade them in a heart beat. So what. We haven’t won shet since 73.

blkexec wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:I don't think this Randle is sustainable so I'd trade him right now 100% while he's playing like this.

Wait, he will keep this up so we better trade him before its too late?
Rare take. I thought I had seen all the "trade Randle" posts on these boards.

Think I am hoping RJ really gets it together and starts passing and picks up his shooting so we can trade him.
Hoping JB starts lighting it up again and grows a few inches in order to defend better, so that we can then trade him
Hope Grimes starts

I don’t get the infatuation you have with people wanting to trade Randle. It’s like some of you just spend time hunting down all the “trade Randle” post. It’s a waste of time. If they want to trade him? Ok. People used to say deuce not an nba player. Now those people are quiet.

Let’s say we trade Randle and the team chemistry improves, you will also go into some corner and hide.

Trade the entire team if it makes us better, why not. As much as I love grimes and deuce, I would trade them in a heart beat. So what. We haven’t won shet since 73.

blkexec wrote:

blkexec wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:I don't think this Randle is sustainable so I'd trade him right now 100% while he's playing like this.

Wait, he will keep this up so we better trade him before its too late?
Rare take. I thought I had seen all the "trade Randle" posts on these boards.

Think I am hoping RJ really gets it together and starts passing and picks up his shooting so we can trade him.
Hoping JB starts lighting it up again and grows a few inches in order to defend better, so that we can then trade him
Hope Grimes starts

I don’t get the infatuation you have with people wanting to trade Randle. It’s like some of you just spend time hunting down all the “trade Randle” post. It’s a waste of time. If they want to trade him? Ok. People used to say deuce not an nba player. Now those people are quiet.

Let’s say we trade Randle and the team chemistry improves, you will also go into some corner and hide.

Trade the entire team if it makes us better, why not. As much as I love grimes and deuce, I would trade them in a heart beat. So what. We haven’t won shet since 73.

Makes no sense screaming into the wind. Some fans are content with mid, at best, results. Doesn't matter what fans think because the FO is content running around in circles and chasing a play-in. Just gotta hope they make some smart moves and assemble a quality roster.

@blkexec...What are you talking about?
"Hunting down guys that want to trade Randle". Lmao. It's on EVERY thread.
So now talking about the biggest topic on the thread is "Infatuation"? (What do we call yours regarding Deuce?) I am just calling out trolls that post things with no truth or feasible alternatives. Aka, I respect those that throw out different views as long as their is some validity and who admit it's just an opinion. Reason why I won't be hiding in the corner if my "opinion" of Randle is wrong. Been wrong about Knicks stuff many times. But you are right,

Your thing seems to be that you feel your opinion means more than others even though they often ignore obvious facts and reality. Ie. You would "even trade Deuce and Grimes to make us better"? You don't even see the lack of relevance that statement has when comparing trading your best player(a perennial 20/10) to a couple of done nothing yoots?

Real question. Have you ever played basketball at a high level?
If so, were those teams looking to get rid of their top players in order to give the end of bench a try? It's just that your views hits me as that of the end of bench guy who thought he was better than the starters but never got the chance?

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:The other thing FO and staff would tell you about Randle: He is the only guy teams would consistently double. That's huge for everyone else. He has gravity in a way others on the team outside of Brunson do not have.

No Randle - without a similar return - and offense because much harder for everyone else. And then teams just mostly have to key off of Brunson.

You’re right. While Brunson has been the best player and takes over when it matters, Randle continues to pull just as much if not more attention from defenses whether he makes them pay or not. Teams don’t trust defenders one on one against Randle.

It's a little cynical but Randle even at his worst shields other young guys from their glaring mistakes cause all eyeballs are still on him. He can definitely be a knucklehead but he still gets the attention of defenses and all the fans/media.

So much like Melo was, Randle is stuck between most frustrating and most under appreciated knick ever.

I think Melo and Randle came with totally different pedigrees. Melo had all that Syracuse and 'coming home' vibe, his return was a much bigger event. When Randle came in that glorious 2019 Summer of Power Forwards, I'm not even sure if it was a given that he would be the best of Portis Morris Gibson Randle set. Randle's evolution into being a guy other teams double team is something that rarely happens at his age.

DeRozan got devastated.

Hey, this isn’t the game thread!

ToddTT wrote:Hey, this isn’t the game thread!

Yeah it is. Keep posting.

HofstraBBall wrote:@blkexec...What are you talking about?
"Hunting down guys that want to trade Randle". Lmao. It's on EVERY thread.
So now talking about the biggest topic on the thread is "Infatuation"? (What do we call yours regarding Deuce?) I am just calling out trolls that post things with no truth or feasible alternatives. Aka, I respect those that throw out different views as long as their is some validity and who admit it's just an opinion. Reason why I won't be hiding in the corner if my "opinion" of Randle is wrong. Been wrong about Knicks stuff many times. But you are right,

Your thing seems to be that you feel your opinion means more than others even though they often ignore obvious facts and reality. Ie. You would "even trade Deuce and Grimes to make us better"? You don't even see the lack of relevance that statement has when comparing trading your best player(a perennial 20/10) to a couple of done nothing yoots?

Real question. Have you ever played basketball at a high level?
If so, were those teams looking to get rid of their top players in order to give the end of bench a try? It's just that your views hits me as that of the end of bench guy who thought he was better than the starters but never got the chance?

Ok I was following for a while until the last paragraph. 🤣

How old are you? Do you play ball now? Have you ever played basketball at a pro level? Not nba. Until then not going to waste my time.

Why would I feel my opinion means more than others? What does that even mean or look like?

You sound like a guy who thinks they are so smart they can figure people out based on a chat? 🤣

Everything your saying is so off base it’s crazy. How old are you?

1. Obi was drafted by the FO with the plan to let their best player walk. Then they tried to trade Randle and see who will bite. So based on your crazy thinking, Leon rose was the worse player on his team thinking he’s better than the starter? Who comes up with junk like that? What kind of conversation is that?

Wow 😮 Yeah I need an age check. Not wasting my time. Randle is cooking right now!

Wtf is up with so many Knicks fans and Julius Randle. It’s bizarro world. He’s good. Really good. Had an off year in 21 ok shit happens he was still productive. Now he’s awesome again and we’re trying to trade him and why??????? Wtf are you getting back. Why is this guy considered toxic by so many? Smarten up! He’s just a really really good player. And he’s a relative bargain. Sell high? Wtf does that even mean? What we getting back? Trash that’s what. M

Just enjoy it. There’s no reason to be in such a rush to drum up these ridiculously desperate motives or moves. We gave up nothing for Randle. We pay him below market value for a player of his talent and age and he’s had two (if he keeps this up) awesome seasons and 2 so so seasons. Why is that so controversial? Enough already with this eating our own mentality. It’s so tiresome.

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