We need defense badly. We need an injection. Im not worried about who makes what money.
Im not giving up on Randle but Id like him in a mismatch role as a sixth man.
We also have way too many smaller guards Rose 6-2 Brunson 6-1 IQ 6-2 Mcbride 6-1 we may have to address that later down but since we have it--lets play a tad faster on the D especially. We dont get to the 3 point shooter. Coaches fault but adding speed should help
I am pretty sure Thibs is pulling out what remains of the few strands on his head for Grimes to just have 1 game where he looks decent enough to start. It'll happen within a week or so.
We all waiting on Fournier to bench himself
I agree but I don't think it would make much difference. We need a star.
Randle last 4 games
0-11 on threes 12 turnovers 15 points a game on 34% shooting and a negative 26 when on the court. hes getting rebounds and passing ut overall what can u say
BRIGGS wrote:We need defense badly. We need an injection. Im not worried about who makes what money.
Im not giving up on Randle but Id like him in a mismatch role as a sixth man. We also have way too many smaller guards Rose 6-2 Brunson 6-1 IQ 6-2 Mcbride 6-1 we may have to address that later down but since we have it--lets play a tad faster on the D especially. We dont get to the 3 point shooter. Coaches fault but adding speed should help
Step 1. Complain about guard size. Step 2. Suggest Mcbribe?
Maybe see Mcbribe in more than zero minutes first?
Maybe wait till Grimes is healthy.
Randle needs to sit more if he can't get his head right. Obi doing everything asked of him. Minus the defense.
HofstraBBall wrote:BRIGGS wrote:We need defense badly. We need an injection. Im not worried about who makes what money.
Im not giving up on Randle but Id like him in a mismatch role as a sixth man. We also have way too many smaller guards Rose 6-2 Brunson 6-1 IQ 6-2 Mcbride 6-1 we may have to address that later down but since we have it--lets play a tad faster on the D especially. We dont get to the 3 point shooter. Coaches fault but adding speed should help
Step 1. Complain about guard size. Step 2. Suggest Mcbribe?
Maybe see Mcbribe in more than zero minutes first?
Maybe wait till Grimes is healthy.
Randle needs to sit more if he can't get his head right. Obi doing everything asked of him. Minus the defense.
We need an energy injection on the d. We have too many small guards but for now that is what it is.
Also Robinson has to stop fouling
BRIGGS wrote:Randle last 4 games0-11 on threes 12 turnovers 15 points a game on 34% shooting and a negative 26 when on the court. hes getting rebounds and passing ut overall what can u say
I don't think I've ever seen a player get so bad at shooting after shooting so well. Randle shot 41% from three in 2021! 
I know all players shot better in empty arenas but this is crazy.
BRIGGS wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:BRIGGS wrote:We need defense badly. We need an injection. Im not worried about who makes what money.
Im not giving up on Randle but Id like him in a mismatch role as a sixth man. We also have way too many smaller guards Rose 6-2 Brunson 6-1 IQ 6-2 Mcbride 6-1 we may have to address that later down but since we have it--lets play a tad faster on the D especially. We dont get to the 3 point shooter. Coaches fault but adding speed should help
Step 1. Complain about guard size. Step 2. Suggest Mcbribe?
Maybe see Mcbribe in more than zero minutes first?
Maybe wait till Grimes is healthy.
Randle needs to sit more if he can't get his head right. Obi doing everything asked of him. Minus the defense.
We need an energy injection on the d. We have too many small guards but for now that is what it is.
Also Robinson has to stop fouling
Agreed. The thing that is concerning is that what is has been for some time and may be longer.
MR, as good as he is has always been foul prone. And not much of a threat on offense except for lobs.
We knew prior to signing JB that size would be an issue.
I know its WAY TOO early to really see what we have but some things are what they have been for some time.
We lost that game as soon as Randle started forcing up shots and turning the ball over. The stat sheet says he had 4 turnovers but it felt like he had 10 turnovers (and if you consider his bad shots, those were essentially turnovers). Trade Randle now.
TheGame wrote:We lost that game as soon as Randle started forcing up shots and turning the ball over. The stat sheet says he had 4 turnovers but it felt like he had 10 turnovers (and we think about his bad shots, those were essentially turnovers). Trade Randle now.
The Knicks in a tough spot with Randle (and not for nothing but it was their move to extend him that got us here).
Trade him before the season at his lowest value? Tough
Hope he plays within offense and increases value? Tough
Keep cutting his minutes for Obi? Decreases his value.
Only thing to do is try to get him right.
TheGame wrote:We lost that game as soon as Randle started forcing up shots and turning the ball over. The stat sheet says he had 4 turnovers but it felt like he had 10 turnovers (and if you consider his bad shots, those were essentially turnovers). Trade Randle now.
I realize almost every thread devolves into a trade Randle rant, but the loss last night against the Hawks was pretty much on the entire team.
- Poor/Lazy defensive rebound positioning and effort - a lot of this especially happening when Mitch was on the bench with foul trouble
- Sloppy ball handling and passing leading to turnover after turnover especially by Murray
- Missed open 3 shots
- Especially bad offensive output and defense by Fournier
- Return of hero ball by Randle
- Too many lob passes into traffic to Obi that were well defended
- Totally giving up on any form of team defense by the 4th Quarter
2nd half was some of the worst play I've seen under Thibs- especially in terms of effort. But I'm not biting on the "Trade" and "Fire" talk yet. Let's see how the team responds to adversity.
There is no way quick fix out of this as there are a multitude of problems - many of them roster imbalances that the FO would need time to shake up. In the meantime - let's not keeping rolling out the same lineup and expecting different results. After 3+ seasons - Randle and RJ don't complement each other and would need better defense and exceptional shooting at all positions surrounding them to perform to their strengths - we simply are nowhere close to that so don't bother trying that approach any longer.
While I thought Randle gave better effort (aside from last night) I would move him to the bench as a 6th man since it clearly can't lessen his trade value anymore. While Toppin may not rebound enough to be the answer to replace Randle - it would allow the coach to try different combinations/chemistry, increase the pace and allow for extended minutes to see what Obi could actually produce with consistent minutes playing with the starters. Randle can try to find his offensive flow and the pace doesn't suffer as he would be better balanced with IQ, D Rose, Cam, etc
One of Randle or RJ will need to go sometime so at least we can get a better sense of what Toppin can offer/not offer before deciding who to trade or package when a quality player becomes available. At this point I would revisit any Westbrook trade that nets us a pick and allows us to clear Randle and/or Fournier salary off the cap. It's clear as day that Fournier is not defensively strong enough to play significant minutes but he's paid too much for a small bench role. I would even send D. Rose to LA if needed as he has given us a lot and at least deserves some sunshine.
Right now Brunson is the only position I would say we are good enough at. RJ if he improves but he can be moved if it betters our team. The rest are 1/2 way players that are older so less likely to make any significant jumps in play (eg Mitch, Randle).
Good news is the "We should have traded the farm this summer" tour is now complete.
jskinny35 wrote:There is no way quick fix out of this as there are a multitude of problems - many of them roster imbalances that the FO would need time to shake up. In the meantime - let's not keeping rolling out the same lineup and expecting different results. After 3+ seasons - Randle and RJ don't complement each other and would need better defense and exceptional shooting at all positions surrounding them to perform to their strengths - we simply are nowhere close to that so don't bother trying that approach any longer. While I thought Randle gave better effort (aside from last night) I would move him to the bench as a 6th man since it clearly can't lessen his trade value anymore. While Toppin may not rebound enough to be the answer to replace Randle - it would allow the coach to try different combinations/chemistry, increase the pace and allow for extended minutes to see what Obi could actually produce with consistent minutes playing with the starters. Randle can try to find his offensive flow and the pace doesn't suffer as he would be better balanced with IQ, D Rose, Cam, etc
One of Randle or RJ will need to go sometime so at least we can get a better sense of what Toppin can offer/not offer before deciding who to trade or package when a quality player becomes available. At this point I would revisit any Westbrook trade that nets us a pick and allows us to clear Randle and/or Fournier salary off the cap. It's clear as day that Fournier is not defensively strong enough to play significant minutes but he's paid too much for a small bench role. I would even send D. Rose to LA if needed as he has given us a lot and at least deserves some sunshine.
Right now Brunson is the only position I would say we are good enough at. RJ if he improves but he can be moved if it betters our team. The rest are 1/2 way players that are older so less likely to make any significant jumps in play (eg Mitch, Randle).
Good news is the "We should have traded the farm this summer" tour is now complete.
we can talk about who needs to go but can't who is coming in to do better?
Same for any coach change talk.
Losing sucks. no way around it. Brunson was abused on defense and the team crumbled in the 3rd quarter.
I like that Rj started hitting from the outside. Like his interior passion to Mitch.
We all love Obi's fast breaks but one can't do that in crunch time. Those long outlet passes are super fun and Im digging the pace but crunch time that stops.
Murray was a revelation last night. His defense was super impressive.
ATL is totally in Randles head! His turnovers last night was a bad a game as I have seen. Where he has been patient and letting the game come to him he went hero ball on us. Same for RJ. The pace got frantic and it buried us.
First stinker of the year. won't be the last either. Nope, not gonna panic and make suggestive changes. I get the logic, "We losing so might as well try new shit, losing is losing!" Fans mantra we are all too familiar with.
Id like to see Grimes/McBride when other teams are launching 3s at a near league leading rate. Like they are now. Other teams know that we arent defending the 3, and are having a field day.
Grimes and McBride might also improve our 3 pt shooting. Definitely wouldnt bench Randle/Fournier this early. But Id give Grimes and/or McBride minutes, when the other team starts launching 3s at will.
HofstraBBall wrote:BRIGGS wrote:We need defense badly. We need an injection. Im not worried about who makes what money.
Im not giving up on Randle but Id like him in a mismatch role as a sixth man. We also have way too many smaller guards Rose 6-2 Brunson 6-1 IQ 6-2 Mcbride 6-1 we may have to address that later down but since we have it--lets play a tad faster on the D especially. We dont get to the 3 point shooter. Coaches fault but adding speed should help
Step 1. Complain about guard size. Step 2. Suggest Mcbribe?
Maybe see Mcbribe in more than zero minutes first?
Maybe wait till Grimes is healthy.
Randle needs to sit more if he can't get his head right. Obi doing everything asked of him. Minus the defense.
Wingspan in more important than height. McBride 6’8.75 wingspan shouldn’t be overlooked. That said, I’ll defer on whether his offensive chops are acceptable.
I think he will have a very effective career.
BigDaddyG wrote:
can we shift RJ to the bench and start Obi at the 3? He is our best 3pt shooter, the best player to move without the ball.
Seems like Thibs will go with the same old same old and wait to have the problem fix itself, usually when we are out of the playoff hunt.
franco12 wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:
can we shift RJ to the bench and start Obi at the 3? He is our best 3pt shooter, the best player to move without the ball.
Seems like Thibs will go with the same old same old and wait to have the problem fix itself, usually when we are out of the playoff hunt.
Putting RJ to the bench is pointless. He’s our only defender. Randle would be benched for Toppin. Toppin is strictly a PF and would allow the starting unit to run more and give more spacing. If things go wrong this year, Randle will be moved even with a pick attached, as Toppin will need the opportunity. I think he fits nicely with RJ and Brunson but our highest ceiling remains with Randle if he can adjust. Big If there though.
This can't come soon enough
Could not see the game yesterday, but in those I've watched, I've seen a very slow starting 5 in terms of defense.
Did RJ put on weight since last year? His consistency from 3 is sell documented, but has he been the defender he was last year?
Fournier is slow...Randle isn't quick, and though he doesn't have to stay with the kind of opponents EF & RJ must deal with, you need some quickness from the position in your rotation.
I'll even ask if Mitch has slowed down a bit because he's added muscle so he can battle down low.
Brunson is quick enough, but has no length as a defender.
For a coach who puts a premium on D, our starting 5 has some severe limitations, IMO.
CleaverGreene wrote:Could not see the game yesterday, but in those I've watched, I've seen a very slow starting 5 in terms of defense.Did RJ put on weight since last year? His consistency from 3 is sell documented, but has he been the defender he was last year?
Fournier is slow...Randle isn't quick, and though he doesn't have to stay with the kind of opponents EF & RJ must deal with, you need some quickness from the position in your rotation.
I'll even ask if Mitch has slowed down a bit because he's added muscle so he can battle down low.
Brunson is quick enough, but has no length as a defender.
For a coach who puts a premium on D, our starting 5 has some severe limitations, IMO.
RJ has definitely bulked up from last year
