We have enough scoring on the bench, not enough in the starting lineup. Cam has and will give you games (like tonite vs Nets) where he fades into the background. Quickley is always on the attack.
He's also a good enough defender now to guard starting 2s. Grimes isnt ready to be a starter. We need someone to help take the pressure off of Brunson. Quickley will do a better job than Cam.
The problem is the shooting. Quickley isn’t shooting well at all and Knicks need shooting. We need reddish to become more consistent. If he can great. If he can’t, need to look elsewhere. I still think it’s grimes spot but the injury killed his momentum so it will take him longer to take over.
Brunson & Quickley haven't click together this season, Brunson one on one moves on consecutive offensive-possession, then Randle one on one consecutive bully moves, or pass to an open or slashing Barrett to the basket .... Quickley's a ball-movement scorer or team scorer the same as Obi Toppin.
I'm a few more games away from demoting IQ from the rotation and giving Deuce those minutes tbh. IQ needs to make shots!
GustavBahler wrote:We have enough scoring on the bench, not enough in the starting lineup. Cam has and will give you games (like tonite vs Nets) where he fades into the background. Quickley is always on the attack.He's also a good enough defender now to guard starting 2s. Grimes isnt ready to be a starter. We need someone to help take the pressure off of Brunson. Quickley will do a better job than Cam.
Big fan of IQ. Probably my favorite player. But no way you put him in the starting lineup the way he is shooting.
He needs to build up his confidence. Best place for that is in the second unit and not with additional pressure from being a starter.
To address the biggest criticism of this proposed move. You're right, that moving IQ to the starting lineup during a slump seems counterintuitive. If it was just about shooting, which is important. Its also ball movement, passing, being aggressive.
Cam too often becomes a wallflower in the offense. You want your SG to be always trying to keep the defense on its heels. Thats why I believe Quick is better suited to be a 2.
Another reason is the chemistry with Fournier in the 2nd unit. Isnt much of it. Cam and Fournier might make a better tandem, with Cam at the 3.
Thibs made the mistake of rushing Grimes back too soon. I hope next time Thibs brings him off the bench slowly. If his plan is to start Grimes at the 2. In the meantime, I've been surprised that Thibs has invested so much time trying to turn Quick into a PG, when he isnt that far from being a very good SG.
Quickley gets to the line more I believe, which you want to make the other team sit their starters.
Quickley can bring more than just scoring. When his shot starts falling again. Want to see a more aggressive SG. Scoring and ball movement.
GustavBahler wrote:To address the biggest criticism of this proposed move. You're right, that moving IQ to the starting lineup during a slump seems counterintuitive. If it was just about shooting, which is important. Its also ball movement, passing, being aggressive.Cam too often becomes a wallflower in the offense. You want your SG to be always trying to keep the defense on its heels. Thats why I believe Quick is better suited to be a 2.
Another reason is the chemistry with Fournier in the 2nd unit. Isnt much of it. Cam and Fournier might make a better tandem, with Cam at the 3.
Thibs made the mistake of rushing Grimes back too soon. I hope next time Thibs brings him off the bench slowly. If his plan is to start Grimes at the 2. In the meantime, I've been surprised that Thibs has invested so much time trying to turn Quick into a PG, when he isnt that far from being a very good SG.
Quickley gets to the line more I believe, which you want to make the other team sit their starters.
Quickley can bring more than just scoring. When his shot starts falling again. Want to see a more aggressive SG. Scoring and ball movement.
Would agree that IQ taking EF's spot would have been my preference. But I may be biased.
But as you said, it may have been more than offense. Can't argue that Cam had an impact on the defensive end and had shown success in previous games. If we are going to be fair than we cannot say IQ had earned that right with his recent play.
Cam did not have a good game last night. But neither did IQ. Hopefully we get IQ, Cam and Grimes all playing well soon.
Lets change the lineup after each game based on the previous play of "said player".
We forget Grimes already? Preseason anointed as the next "star" by some?
Its obvious Thibs wants more length on defense. RJ is the 2 for now. Cam guards the 3, right? is that what's happening?
IQ defense is improved. As we have seen the kid makes a jump, then it take time for it to be instinct and his offense game comes back.
Reality is not who starts, but who finishes.
And, remember players that come in mid 3rd period cannot finish the game with the same fervor so when they get taken out for fresh player its not Thibs being stubborn, its pattern.
But he does reward players who kick ass when starters are not!
On offense IQ still has many looks like he does not know what to do, burns clock, then passes and that player has to iso.
Ball movement is stagnating from early season, the defense is stopping it.
.500 teams are maddening. you can't resign to the suck, nor can one get too optimistic.
HofstraBBall wrote:https://nypost.com/2022/11/12/knicks-get...IQ will be a high level player if used correctly and given a chance.
If the FO is considering a trade involving Quickley. Would be a real bad look if he was moved, and turned out to be a very good SG.
From day one Thibs hasnt let Quick do much of anything but PG. Fail to see the logic of not giving Quick a look at the 2. Not at this point in his career.
GustavBahler wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:https://nypost.com/2022/11/12/knicks-get...IQ will be a high level player if used correctly and given a chance.
If the FO is considering a trade involving Quickley. Would be a real bad look if he was moved, and turned out to be a very good SG.
From day one Thibs hasnt let Quick do much of anything but PG. Fail to see the logic of not giving Quick a look at the 2. Not at this point in his career.
Trade implies an incoming asset, not just the deletion of a current favorite son. The fact is out team by keeping a horde of picks is actually deep value. Some teams on the end of the spectrum are “leveraged”, thus owe picks. We could be. Better. I suppose its like asking children if they want one piece of candy now, or two later.
For knick fans or any sport fan there is no guarantee the candy will be there so take what you can get now?
To each their own.
Any player that traded looks bad if they improve but if the knicks are winning who cares?
Losing sucks. Makes one envious and looking for happyness in othsers failure. I hope if IQ is traded and in return an asset comes in or is drafted that elevates us to winning even more and more.
HofstraBBall wrote:https://nypost.com/2022/11/12/knicks-get...IQ will be a high level player if used correctly and given a chance.
What does Used correctly and Given a chance mean to you and why do you think those 2 things haven’t been prevalent for IQ?
I don’t get it cause I see it going on all the time.
IQ should’ve been the starter when Kemba was removed. If thibs did this early, instead of Burks. I’m not sure JB would be a knick right now. There was nothing wrong with IQ, Rose and Deuce rotation. But we added JB which created a glut, and why Rose was a healthy scratch.
Now we back doing what we should’ve done already. Give more mins to deuce and IQ. Less mins for EF and Rose. We are just late on these decisions.
I’m curious what the next move is for this FO. They can go in so many different directions. I still think the first move is to clear the vets that’s blocking the youths PT. That’s Rose and Randle.
I'm not sure if I'd rather have Grimes or IQ start at the 2. I'd split minutes and starts between them and see who works out best.
Like him better as a 6th man
IQ is being developed as a PG and Grimes as a SG who can be a PoA defender.
I love his use of the backboard today. Keep it up, Quick!
IQ is looking better and better all the time. He's a perfect 6th man who can also close
Philc1 wrote:Like him better as a 6th man
I think IQ can be groomed to be an NBA starter. And before we signed JB, I would've been happy with IQ or Rose starting. Unless there was a no brainer PG available. Don't get me wrong, love JB and happy he's a knick. But we have more problems than a scoring PG with limited defense can solve. If anything JB provides stability at a position we lacked stability for years. Thats why we drafted IQ and Deuce (2 players who played PG/SG in college). And as we can see, both are providing great minutes that contributes to wins.
Scoring wasn't a need for us, but clutch scoring in crunch time is needed and JB can provide that eventually or I hope. With our current team, we needed a pass first 2-way PG since we have a team full of offensive scorers. But now we have JB, who adds more offensive punch, but highlights our team weakness at the defensive end. We can move some of these other scorers for players are picks down the road. I prefer picks so that Thibs can use his tight 9-man rotation which looks like it's producing wins. So I'm sure Thibs will continue that strategy, based on history. Case in point, Cam, Rose and we know EF.....All capable and healthy guards who never left the bench.
Just shows you how crowded our guard rotation is. It was crowded before JB came on board. Thibs sat EF, Cam and Rose....And we won. So if you don't know Thibs by now, he's stuck in his ways, when his ways produces W's. Unless Leon Rose and others stepped in and said, we need to play Cam more. Otherwise, I'm looking forward to see Deuce gain some offensive confidence, because this team needs his defensive intensity.
