Knicks · Fire Thibs (page 37)
EwingsGlass wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:Other than that, I can't shake the Athletic article about Thibs being the coach that players least want to play for. That's gotta change.For me, it's literally funny to read that. You know what type of guy would definitely love to play for Thibs? Jimmy fucking Butler.
Thibs has made Mitch into one of the best offensive rebounders in the league. IQ is considered a top 6th man in the league. Randle goes from not being signed by 2 different teams (they literally let him walk for free) and turns into all NBA when he got to Thibs. Brunson has made an incredible jump. Derrick Rose loves him. I will hang my ass out there and project that iHart is going to break out next year under Thibs, same with Grimes.
Guys that like to work hard and get pushed to new levels love Thibs. Guys that don't like to practice a lot don't want to be on a Thibs team? They can go kick rocks.
You work hard, and Thibs give you a chance but you gotta put in the work and effort. What kind of player wouldn't want that type of opportunity?
Cam, he didn't like it. Cam is going to work on his next min contract soon.
I've defended Thibs, but I've always said that I'm hopeful the time comes when the roster talent eventually outgrows him. I believe Thibs is a good coach with limitations. He is in the Nick Nurse, Dwayne Casey, Ty Lue, Frank Vogel tier. He might be a little better or worse than those guys, but it's close. Could any of those guys have gotten as much out of this roster as Thibs? Maybe, but it's not a given. I'm not convinced his offensive schemes are sophisticated enough to win a title, but we'll never know for sure until we see him with a talented enough roster.
Absolutely true.
Also true: Thibs took a team with Mitch who can't do anything offensive beside dunk the ball, RJ who can't shoot and Randle who is up and down and likes to ISO and accidentally turned them into one of the highest offensive efficient teams EVER.
He figured something out. It was not sustainable in playoffs against a very good Miami team that is playing bonkers but was good enough against a very well regarded defensive team in the Cavs.
Every single coach out there absolutely needs talent to get anywhere.
Not sure where you are getting this statement.
https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/advanced...
They ranked 20th in eFG this season. Not exactly cracking the all time leaderboards there.
Yeah, but they ranked 5th in offensive efficiency due, in part, to their offensive rebounding rate. As we've seen this playoff series, no offensive rebounds and we struggle to outscore some G-League teams.
http://www.espn.com/nba/hollinger/teamst...Yes, thanks. Offensive efficiency rating
I’ve been thinking about this one. I clearly bow down to the mighty eFG stat as my standard of efficiency. And the Knicks OffRtg rankings are clearly due to their ability to obtain offensive rebounds - with offensive rebounds not being considered a new possession for this stat. Barrett stated it early in the season and I laughed. That he can get ‘Kobe’ assists - meaning put up light shots that he knows his team can have a high probability of finishing. And if this is the genius of our offense then I am overcritical of our offensive efficiency. For me, I didn’t think of it as being by design.
In fairness, we should then take a look statistically at the Kobe Assist. I would love to re-analyze Barrett using these. I would take any missed shot that is ORebounded with a direct score and remove that from shot attempts for his Kobe FG%. I’d catch some lucky ones. I’d add Kobe Assist to his Total Assists. Re-run things like PER with these numbers. Barrett might look a lot better.
We should get 538 on this.
WNYmentality is for sure not Nate Silver!
Good point, When RJ goes strong three things usually happen, he hits the shot. He misses. He gets fouled. He misses and who ever came to cover leaves our big alone, and Offensive rebound. Last night that happend and Isiah had a lovely putback. RJ to the rim is better than 50%. Good things happen when he does this.
RJ long ball is the issue. His playmaking has been better and better. He does take 1-2 long threes when time is running out. It happens and it worsens his not so great numbers.
If you take those out, then perhaps his 10 worst games, what does that do to his numbers?
Also, his defense? The bad ones stick in our brains and we label him (and others) “bad defender”.
Not so sure I’d go there. not saying he is all defensive team either.
With his improved play the last 20 or so games perhaps he was a bit hobbled? Fatiqued? 22 year old body takes a pounding.
NYKMentality wrote:EXTEND THIBS!
EXTEND COACH THIBS!!
EXTEND COACH TOM THIBS!!!This man is only Year 3 into his 5 year contract and he's already earned himself an EXTENSION!
NYC's 2 WINS AWAY FROM THE EASTERN CONFERENCE FINALS FOR THE 1ST TIME IN 24 YEARS SINCE DATING BACK TO 1999 OF 24 YEARS AGO!
EXTEND THIBS!
EXTEND COACH THIBS!!
EXTEND COACH TOM THIBS!!!
Even if knicks win a chip, why extend him now? As you noted, he has two more years.
I doubt the FO does not even think about this until next season.
You do recognize your a bit emotional after a win, right?
EwingsGlass wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:Other than that, I can't shake the Athletic article about Thibs being the coach that players least want to play for. That's gotta change.For me, it's literally funny to read that. You know what type of guy would definitely love to play for Thibs? Jimmy fucking Butler.
Thibs has made Mitch into one of the best offensive rebounders in the league. IQ is considered a top 6th man in the league. Randle goes from not being signed by 2 different teams (they literally let him walk for free) and turns into all NBA when he got to Thibs. Brunson has made an incredible jump. Derrick Rose loves him. I will hang my ass out there and project that iHart is going to break out next year under Thibs, same with Grimes.
Guys that like to work hard and get pushed to new levels love Thibs. Guys that don't like to practice a lot don't want to be on a Thibs team? They can go kick rocks.
You work hard, and Thibs give you a chance but you gotta put in the work and effort. What kind of player wouldn't want that type of opportunity?
Cam, he didn't like it. Cam is going to work on his next min contract soon.
I've defended Thibs, but I've always said that I'm hopeful the time comes when the roster talent eventually outgrows him. I believe Thibs is a good coach with limitations. He is in the Nick Nurse, Dwayne Casey, Ty Lue, Frank Vogel tier. He might be a little better or worse than those guys, but it's close. Could any of those guys have gotten as much out of this roster as Thibs? Maybe, but it's not a given. I'm not convinced his offensive schemes are sophisticated enough to win a title, but we'll never know for sure until we see him with a talented enough roster.
Absolutely true.
Also true: Thibs took a team with Mitch who can't do anything offensive beside dunk the ball, RJ who can't shoot and Randle who is up and down and likes to ISO and accidentally turned them into one of the highest offensive efficient teams EVER.
He figured something out. It was not sustainable in playoffs against a very good Miami team that is playing bonkers but was good enough against a very well regarded defensive team in the Cavs.
Every single coach out there absolutely needs talent to get anywhere.
Not sure where you are getting this statement.
https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/advanced...
They ranked 20th in eFG this season. Not exactly cracking the all time leaderboards there.
Yeah, but they ranked 5th in offensive efficiency due, in part, to their offensive rebounding rate. As we've seen this playoff series, no offensive rebounds and we struggle to outscore some G-League teams.
http://www.espn.com/nba/hollinger/teamst...Yes, thanks. Offensive efficiency rating
I’ve been thinking about this one. I clearly bow down to the mighty eFG stat as my standard of efficiency. And the Knicks OffRtg rankings are clearly due to their ability to obtain offensive rebounds - with offensive rebounds not being considered a new possession for this stat. Barrett stated it early in the season and I laughed. That he can get ‘Kobe’ assists - meaning put up light shots that he knows his team can have a high probability of finishing. And if this is the genius of our offense then I am overcritical of our offensive efficiency. For me, I didn’t think of it as being by design.
In fairness, we should then take a look statistically at the Kobe Assist. I would love to re-analyze Barrett using these. I would take any missed shot that is ORebounded with a direct score and remove that from shot attempts for his Kobe FG%. I’d catch some lucky ones. I’d add Kobe Assist to his Total Assists. Re-run things like PER with these numbers. Barrett might look a lot better.
We should get 538 on this.
Yeah, it is definitely a weird way to get offense but it does point to a creative way the Knicks took a look at their roster and went right at what their strengths were - they figured something out via analytics and may some luck which they kinda sorta produced on their own. Net rating is also a pretty good indicator of how a team will do over the long term and the Knicks were in the top 5-10 all year.
You can obviously overwhelm a team with ORebounding, the Knicks hammered Cleveland this way but your shooting can't drop to ungodly poor levels which it has for the Knicks.
NYKMentality wrote:EXTEND THIBS!
EXTEND COACH THIBS!!
EXTEND COACH TOM THIBS!!!This man is only Year 3 into his 5 year contract and he's already earned himself an EXTENSION!
NYC's 2 WINS AWAY FROM THE EASTERN CONFERENCE FINALS FOR THE 1ST TIME IN 24 YEARS SINCE DATING BACK TO 1999 OF 24 YEARS AGO!
EXTEND THIBS!
EXTEND COACH THIBS!!
EXTEND COACH TOM THIBS!!!
IF we win this series then yes
martin wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:Yeah, it is definitely a weird way to get offense but it does point to a creative way the Knicks took a look at their roster and went right at what their strengths were - they figured something out via analytics and may some luck which they kinda sorta produced on their own. Net rating is also a pretty good indicator of how a team will do over the long term and the Knicks were in the top 5-10 all year.martin wrote:I;ve been thinking about this one. I clearly bow down to the mighty eFG stat as my standard of efficiency. And the Knicks OffRtg rankings are clearly due to their ability to obtain offensive rebounds - with offensive rebounds not being considered a new possession for this stat. Barrett stated it early in the season and I laughed. That he can get ;Kobe; assists - meaning put up light shots that he knows his team can have a high probability of finishing. And if this is the genius of our offense then I am overcritical of our offensive efficiency. For me, I didn;t think of it as being by design.BigDaddyG wrote:Yes, thanks. Offensive efficiency ratingEwingsGlass wrote:Yeah, but they ranked 5th in offensive efficiency due, in part, to their offensive rebounding rate. As we've seen this playoff series, no offensive rebounds and we struggle to outscore some G-League teams.martin wrote:Not sure where you are getting this statement.BigDaddyG wrote:Absolutely true.martin wrote:I've defended Thibs, but I've always said that I'm hopeful the time comes when the roster talent eventually outgrows him. I believe Thibs is a good coach with limitations. He is in the Nick Nurse, Dwayne Casey, Ty Lue, Frank Vogel tier. He might be a little better or worse than those guys, but it's close. Could any of those guys have gotten as much out of this roster as Thibs? Maybe, but it's not a given. I'm not convinced his offensive schemes are sophisticated enough to win a title, but we'll never know for sure until we see him with a talented enough roster.EwingsGlass wrote:Other than that, I can't shake the Athletic article about Thibs being the coach that players least want to play for. That's gotta change.For me, it's literally funny to read that. You know what type of guy would definitely love to play for Thibs? Jimmy fucking Butler.Thibs has made Mitch into one of the best offensive rebounders in the league. IQ is considered a top 6th man in the league. Randle goes from not being signed by 2 different teams (they literally let him walk for free) and turns into all NBA when he got to Thibs. Brunson has made an incredible jump. Derrick Rose loves him. I will hang my ass out there and project that iHart is going to break out next year under Thibs, same with Grimes.
Guys that like to work hard and get pushed to new levels love Thibs. Guys that don't like to practice a lot don't want to be on a Thibs team? They can go kick rocks.
You work hard, and Thibs give you a chance but you gotta put in the work and effort. What kind of player wouldn't want that type of opportunity?
Cam, he didn't like it. Cam is going to work on his next min contract soon.
Also true: Thibs took a team with Mitch who can't do anything offensive beside dunk the ball, RJ who can't shoot and Randle who is up and down and likes to ISO and accidentally turned them into one of the highest offensive efficient teams EVER.
He figured something out. It was not sustainable in playoffs against a very good Miami team that is playing bonkers but was good enough against a very well regarded defensive team in the Cavs.
Every single coach out there absolutely needs talent to get anywhere.
https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/advanced...
They ranked 20th in eFG this season. Not exactly cracking the all time leaderboards there.
http://www.espn.com/nba/hollinger/teamst...In fairness, we should then take a look statistically at the Kobe Assist. I would love to re-analyze Barrett using these. I would take any missed shot that is ORebounded with a direct score and remove that from shot attempts for his Kobe FG%. Id catch some lucky ones. Id add Kobe Assist to his Total Assists. Re-run things like PER with these numbers. Barrett might look a lot better.
We should get 538 on this.
You can obviously overwhelm a team with ORebounding, the Knicks hammered Cleveland this way but your shooting can't drop to ungodly poor levels which it has for the Knicks.
If you are going to massage a player's stats by subtracting Kobe assists from his attempts and removing last second shots, or his 10 worst games, then that is only meaningful if you then do that to the rest of the league's players to then see where your player falls with the widely massaged stats. You can't just handicap your player that way. It's meaningless
EwingsGlass wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:Other than that, I can't shake the Athletic article about Thibs being the coach that players least want to play for. That's gotta change.For me, it's literally funny to read that. You know what type of guy would definitely love to play for Thibs? Jimmy fucking Butler.
Thibs has made Mitch into one of the best offensive rebounders in the league. IQ is considered a top 6th man in the league. Randle goes from not being signed by 2 different teams (they literally let him walk for free) and turns into all NBA when he got to Thibs. Brunson has made an incredible jump. Derrick Rose loves him. I will hang my ass out there and project that iHart is going to break out next year under Thibs, same with Grimes.
Guys that like to work hard and get pushed to new levels love Thibs. Guys that don't like to practice a lot don't want to be on a Thibs team? They can go kick rocks.
You work hard, and Thibs give you a chance but you gotta put in the work and effort. What kind of player wouldn't want that type of opportunity?
Cam, he didn't like it. Cam is going to work on his next min contract soon.
I've defended Thibs, but I've always said that I'm hopeful the time comes when the roster talent eventually outgrows him. I believe Thibs is a good coach with limitations. He is in the Nick Nurse, Dwayne Casey, Ty Lue, Frank Vogel tier. He might be a little better or worse than those guys, but it's close. Could any of those guys have gotten as much out of this roster as Thibs? Maybe, but it's not a given. I'm not convinced his offensive schemes are sophisticated enough to win a title, but we'll never know for sure until we see him with a talented enough roster.
Absolutely true.
Also true: Thibs took a team with Mitch who can't do anything offensive beside dunk the ball, RJ who can't shoot and Randle who is up and down and likes to ISO and accidentally turned them into one of the highest offensive efficient teams EVER.
He figured something out. It was not sustainable in playoffs against a very good Miami team that is playing bonkers but was good enough against a very well regarded defensive team in the Cavs.
Every single coach out there absolutely needs talent to get anywhere.
Not sure where you are getting this statement.
https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/advanced...
They ranked 20th in eFG this season. Not exactly cracking the all time leaderboards there.
Yeah, but they ranked 5th in offensive efficiency due, in part, to their offensive rebounding rate. As we've seen this playoff series, no offensive rebounds and we struggle to outscore some G-League teams.
http://www.espn.com/nba/hollinger/teamst...Yes, thanks. Offensive efficiency rating
I’ve been thinking about this one. I clearly bow down to the mighty eFG stat as my standard of efficiency. And the Knicks OffRtg rankings are clearly due to their ability to obtain offensive rebounds - with offensive rebounds not being considered a new possession for this stat. Barrett stated it early in the season and I laughed. That he can get ‘Kobe’ assists - meaning put up light shots that he knows his team can have a high probability of finishing. And if this is the genius of our offense then I am overcritical of our offensive efficiency. For me, I didn’t think of it as being by design.
In fairness, we should then take a look statistically at the Kobe Assist. I would love to re-analyze Barrett using these. I would take any missed shot that is ORebounded with a direct score and remove that from shot attempts for his Kobe FG%. I’d catch some lucky ones. I’d add Kobe Assist to his Total Assists. Re-run things like PER with these numbers. Barrett might look a lot better.
We should get 538 on this.
That Kobe Assist thing was how Barrett was developed under Tisdale....I can't find the quote but it was something about getting to the rim and drawing defenders so even if it was a difficult shot and he missed he just wanted to hit it off the rim so the bigs (Mitch) were in position for an easy score
Sambakick wrote:That is all.
fitzfarm wrote:I hate to agree with this but we won’t become better with him… his arrogance to never adjust the game plan is the reason he never won a chip and never will. When your team scores 130+ points you should never loose the game
wargames wrote:They should have fired this a few seasons ago. Now they got Brunson’s dad on his coaching staff and firing thibs has repercussionsbeyond just replacing him.They need to make some trade too.
franco12 wrote:TPercy wrote:I don't think a new coach would be that much better. I think you give Thibs time to get sorted out defensively. You also have to keep in mind that unless the young wildcards on our team show crazy unexpected growth, this teams ceiling is pretty low relative to the rest of the league. Brunson is good, but without a franchise #1 option we can only go so far.He's had 3 years. It's been downhill since year 1.
This is year 2 with most of the players. The defense is worse.
I knew we'd give up a lot of points, after we had that unbelievable first quarter scoring outburst.
I'M NOT HEARING ENOUGH PEOPLE CALLING FOR THIBS COTY.
The man has done an incredible job.
Thank you, Tom Thibs
I hope he stays with the organization after his coaching career is done.
Nalod wrote:
so all these bloated expectations are wack becuase in times of lockdown we were 10 games over .500.
We go the 4th seed because the music stopped in our favor.
We lost a series to ATL. Then Randle had a bad season and we won 37 games.
Did we not enjoy "we here" season? I did.
It was more fun than last season.The GPS says the path to success has to include time in Mediocrity.
no faith in the plan? Its like Religion, you only want what happend in the past. The future is "faith".
Faith defined is: An unsubstantiated belief
Want retreads of past success players. Thats starphuching.
Im proud of this post.
DLeethal wrote:I think teams should study how the Knicks built this team up starting with the “we here” season. It was pretty unconventional but worked extremely well. For a couple years they had Brock Aller scour cheap budget vets to try and instill a culture around Thibs philosophy. Groomed their young talent along the way. Eventually kept raising the bar on the vets they brought in, each signing or trade bringing a guy of much higher caliber than the guys before. End result is a contender that’s fully bought in and plays to the coaches identity better than 99% of the league. Teams struggling to get out of the gutter of the NBA should study this. I see Houston trying to do it similarly I think.
100% spot on and agreed.
Luck is of course heavily involved with any story like the Knicks but I also think they created their own opportunities for luck.
martin wrote:DLeethal wrote:I think teams should study how the Knicks built this team up starting with the “we here” season. It was pretty unconventional but worked extremely well. For a couple years they had Brock Aller scour cheap budget vets to try and instill a culture around Thibs philosophy. Groomed their young talent along the way. Eventually kept raising the bar on the vets they brought in, each signing or trade bringing a guy of much higher caliber than the guys before. End result is a contender that’s fully bought in and plays to the coaches identity better than 99% of the league. Teams struggling to get out of the gutter of the NBA should study this. I see Houston trying to do it similarly I think.100% spot on and agreed.
Luck is of course heavily involved with any story like the Knicks but I also think they created their own opportunities for luck.
You see so many young teams avoid playing vets like the plague, they just run a bunch of young idiots out there and never form an identity or culture. Sometimes it works like OKC and other times you are just on a treadmill if being terrible for a decade. Knicks path was different and heavily scrutinized for awhile but their young player development was really good and their culture/identity became elite. Throwing unearned minutes at young players and letting them rule the roost isn’t the only way to develop them and grabbing vets on a losing team can have its benefits as you saw with the crew of Burks/Bullock/Taj/Rose. That season set us on the path for where we are now.
DLeethal wrote:martin wrote:DLeethal wrote:I think teams should study how the Knicks built this team up starting with the “we here” season. It was pretty unconventional but worked extremely well. For a couple years they had Brock Aller scour cheap budget vets to try and instill a culture around Thibs philosophy. Groomed their young talent along the way. Eventually kept raising the bar on the vets they brought in, each signing or trade bringing a guy of much higher caliber than the guys before. End result is a contender that’s fully bought in and plays to the coaches identity better than 99% of the league. Teams struggling to get out of the gutter of the NBA should study this. I see Houston trying to do it similarly I think.100% spot on and agreed.
Luck is of course heavily involved with any story like the Knicks but I also think they created their own opportunities for luck.
You see so many young teams avoid playing vets like the plague, they just run a bunch of young idiots out there and never form an identity or culture. Sometimes it works like OKC and other times you are just on a treadmill if being terrible for a decade. Knicks path was different and heavily scrutinized for awhile but their young player development was really good and their culture/identity became elite. Throwing unearned minutes at young players and letting them rule the roost isn’t the only way to develop them and grabbing vets on a losing team can have its benefits as you saw with the crew of Burks/Bullock/Taj/Rose. That season set us on the path for where we are now.
Yessir!
I was never worried about the "hot seat" takes regarding Thibs. Fans realistically only view coaches in terms of wins/losses and how they manage players minutes while up by 15+ late in 4th quarters lol not development and what it takes to grow players and team.
Thibs is a win-only coach? No, it's fans that typically only take the perspective of a win-only lens and that's all they are able to judge on
martin wrote:DLeethal wrote:I think teams should study how the Knicks built this team up starting with the “we here” season. It was pretty unconventional but worked extremely well. For a couple years they had Brock Aller scour cheap budget vets to try and instill a culture around Thibs philosophy. Groomed their young talent along the way. Eventually kept raising the bar on the vets they brought in, each signing or trade bringing a guy of much higher caliber than the guys before. End result is a contender that’s fully bought in and plays to the coaches identity better than 99% of the league. Teams struggling to get out of the gutter of the NBA should study this. I see Houston trying to do it similarly I think.100% spot on and agreed.
Luck is of course heavily involved with any story like the Knicks but I also think they created their own opportunities for luck.
yes! you recall posts of the past!!!
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