Is Thibs the coach that brings us a chip? Or just a development coach?
blkexec wrote:Is Thibs the coach that brings us a chip? Or just a development coach?
Maybe he is a coach that gets guys to player harder, but not necessarily smarter. I think this season, there has been effort, but we don’t really play all that smart. ISO, PNR- that is it.
Still hate this thread, but how is he playing the same strategy that got him slaughtered in Game 1 against the Celtics and Game 2 just a week before. He has 25 games to figure out a better strategy defensively.
One thing is for sure - if he wants to get someone up on the ball he needs to play Deuce more. Mikal not aggressive at the point of attack and that kills us as much as anything. We also need to start thinking about gambling for more turnovers. We play more risk averse drop to prevent easy baskets, but we are still giving up easy baskets. Might as well gamble in a lane and create some turnovers if you're gonna give up so many easy baskets anyway. We have the personnel to do it with OG, Deuce Mikal, Josh and eventually Mitch coming back who can disrupt the ball.
blkexec wrote:Is Thibs the coach that brings us a chip? Or just a development coach?
State that 4 years ago and you would have been laughed at and ridiculed lol
VDesai wrote:Still hate this thread, but how is he playing the same strategy that got him slaughtered in Game 1 against the Celtics and Game 2 just a week before. He has 25 games to figure out a better strategy defensively. One thing is for sure - if he wants to get someone up on the ball he needs to play Deuce more. Mikal not aggressive at the point of attack and that kills us as much as anything. We also need to start thinking about gambling for more turnovers. We play more risk averse drop to prevent easy baskets, but we are still giving up easy baskets. Might as well gamble in a lane and create some turnovers if you're gonna give up so many easy baskets anyway. We have the personnel to do it with OG, Deuce Mikal, Josh and eventually Mitch coming back who can disrupt the ball.
KAT and Brunson are having stout years offensively, and yet it probably behooves the team to have them do less - especially the ISO stuff - and play better team ball, which would probably give Mikal and OG better opportunities.
And Deuce does seem to be a better POA guy.
martin wrote:VDesai wrote:Still hate this thread, but how is he playing the same strategy that got him slaughtered in Game 1 against the Celtics and Game 2 just a week before. He has 25 games to figure out a better strategy defensively. One thing is for sure - if he wants to get someone up on the ball he needs to play Deuce more. Mikal not aggressive at the point of attack and that kills us as much as anything. We also need to start thinking about gambling for more turnovers. We play more risk averse drop to prevent easy baskets, but we are still giving up easy baskets. Might as well gamble in a lane and create some turnovers if you're gonna give up so many easy baskets anyway. We have the personnel to do it with OG, Deuce Mikal, Josh and eventually Mitch coming back who can disrupt the ball.
KAT and Brunson are having stout years offensively, and yet it probably behooves the team to have them do less - especially the ISO stuff - and play better team ball, which would probably give Mikal and OG better opportunities.
And Deuce does seem to be a better POA guy.
I always think- what would Steve Kerr do with this roster? We have guys that can pass the ball, and occasionally that happens. But the lack of movement - that is on the coach at this point.
martin wrote:VDesai wrote:Still hate this thread, but how is he playing the same strategy that got him slaughtered in Game 1 against the Celtics and Game 2 just a week before. He has 25 games to figure out a better strategy defensively. One thing is for sure - if he wants to get someone up on the ball he needs to play Deuce more. Mikal not aggressive at the point of attack and that kills us as much as anything. We also need to start thinking about gambling for more turnovers. We play more risk averse drop to prevent easy baskets, but we are still giving up easy baskets. Might as well gamble in a lane and create some turnovers if you're gonna give up so many easy baskets anyway. We have the personnel to do it with OG, Deuce Mikal, Josh and eventually Mitch coming back who can disrupt the ball.
KAT and Brunson are having stout years offensively, and yet it probably behooves the team to have them do less - especially the ISO stuff - and play better team ball, which would probably give Mikal and OG better opportunities.
And Deuce does seem to be a better POA guy.
At time the ball movement has been flowing, but we seem to be getting killed by the trap on Brunson. Than we play pick and roll and they double Brunson, KAT gets the screen and then KAT is doubled off the wing. KAT then makes the perfect pass to Achiuwa who is open in the corner for 3 or a drive to the lane- airball.
I don't think it's unreasonable to say that Boston, Cleveland, and OKC are in a class of their own. Houston may not be far behind and need more time.
Total wins for the top 10 teams in the league record wise against each other. BOS CLE OK got 40+ wins total. NY MEM DEN HOU got 35-37, rest got 32-35.
CLE OKC BOS NY MEM DEN HOU LAL IND MIL Record Games
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CLE 1-1 1-2 2-0 1-0 2-0 0-2 2-0 1-1 0-0 10-6 16
OKC 1-1 1-0 2-0 2-0 1-1 2-1 1-0 1-0 1-0 12-3 15
BOS 2-1 0-1 3-0 0-1 1-0 1-1 0-1 1-2 3-0 11-7 18NY 0-2 0-2 0-3 1-0 2-0 1-1 0-1 2-1 2-0 8-10 18
MEM 0-1 0-2 1-0 0-1 1-1 1-3 1-2 0-0 2-0 6-10 16
DEN 0-2 1-1 0-1 0-2 1-1 0-1 1-1 0-0 0-0 3-9 12
HOU 2-0 1-2 1-1 1-1 3-1 1-0 1-0 1-0 0-1 11-6 17
LAL 0-2 0-1 1-0 1-0 2-1 1-1 0-1 1-0 0-0 6-6 12
IND 1-1 0-1 2-1 1-2 1-1 0-0 0-1 0-1 0-2 5-8 13
MIL 0-2 0-1 0-3 0-2 0-2 0-0 1-0 0-0 2-0 3-10 13
Fire Thibs, Does Rick Brunson stay with new coach? His son "do the right thing" if uncle Thibs not here?
BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:The 2 prediction threads for this year. No one predicted that Knicks would be a contending team and the most optimistic is around 56 wins?https://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/top...
https://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/top...
I knew it was going to take time. The question is how does the team improve with no picks of value and the second apron looming in the horizon?
Cleveland probably were asking the same questions after they traded for Donovan and got iced by NY?
martin wrote:I don't think it's unreasonable to say that Boston, Cleveland, and OKC are in a class of their own. Houston may not be far behind and need more time.Total wins for the top 10 teams in the league record wise against each other. BOS CLE OK got 40+ wins total. NY MEM DEN HOU got 35-37, rest got 32-35.
CLE OKC BOS NY MEM DEN HOU LAL IND MIL Record Games
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CLE 1-1 1-2 2-0 1-0 2-0 0-2 2-0 1-1 0-0 10-6 16
OKC 1-1 1-0 2-0 2-0 1-1 2-1 1-0 1-0 1-0 12-3 15
BOS 2-1 0-1 3-0 0-1 1-0 1-1 0-1 1-2 3-0 11-7 18NY 0-2 0-2 0-3 1-0 2-0 1-1 0-1 2-1 2-0 8-10 18
MEM 0-1 0-2 1-0 0-1 1-1 1-3 1-2 0-0 2-0 6-10 16
DEN 0-2 1-1 0-1 0-2 1-1 0-1 1-1 0-0 0-0 3-9 12
HOU 2-0 1-2 1-1 1-1 3-1 1-0 1-0 1-0 0-1 11-6 17
LAL 0-2 0-1 1-0 1-0 2-1 1-1 0-1 1-0 0-0 6-6 12
IND 1-1 0-1 2-1 1-2 1-1 0-0 0-1 0-1 0-2 5-8 13
MIL 0-2 0-1 0-3 0-2 0-2 0-0 1-0 0-0 2-0 3-10 13
Definitely not unreasonable. They are the best teams. I never thought we'd be pretty squarely no.4-5 on the list and be 25 points behind them (or whatever our average margin of defeat is now in these 7 games). These are great teams, no doubt. Its hard to understand how we can be a few games behind record wise and be this far away from them in games. I'm not expecting to be better than them, but its hard to imagine that at this point in the season, after the success we've had in other games against some pretty good teams, that we're this far behind.
martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:The 2 prediction threads for this year. No one predicted that Knicks would be a contending team and the most optimistic is around 56 wins?https://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/top...
https://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/top...
I knew it was going to take time. The question is how does the team improve with no picks of value and the second apron looming in the horizon?
Cleveland probably were asking the same questions after they traded for Donovan and got iced by NY?
We don't have a young core of Allen, Garland and Mobley. I think their upside was always factored in when the Cavs made that trade. Also, that trade was made before this new CBA kicked in.
VDesai wrote:martin wrote:I don't think it's unreasonable to say that Boston, Cleveland, and OKC are in a class of their own. Houston may not be far behind and need more time.Total wins for the top 10 teams in the league record wise against each other. BOS CLE OK got 40+ wins total. NY MEM DEN HOU got 35-37, rest got 32-35.
CLE OKC BOS NY MEM DEN HOU LAL IND MIL Record Games
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CLE 1-1 1-2 2-0 1-0 2-0 0-2 2-0 1-1 0-0 10-6 16
OKC 1-1 1-0 2-0 2-0 1-1 2-1 1-0 1-0 1-0 12-3 15
BOS 2-1 0-1 3-0 0-1 1-0 1-1 0-1 1-2 3-0 11-7 18NY 0-2 0-2 0-3 1-0 2-0 1-1 0-1 2-1 2-0 8-10 18
MEM 0-1 0-2 1-0 0-1 1-1 1-3 1-2 0-0 2-0 6-10 16
DEN 0-2 1-1 0-1 0-2 1-1 0-1 1-1 0-0 0-0 3-9 12
HOU 2-0 1-2 1-1 1-1 3-1 1-0 1-0 1-0 0-1 11-6 17
LAL 0-2 0-1 1-0 1-0 2-1 1-1 0-1 1-0 0-0 6-6 12
IND 1-1 0-1 2-1 1-2 1-1 0-0 0-1 0-1 0-2 5-8 13
MIL 0-2 0-1 0-3 0-2 0-2 0-0 1-0 0-0 2-0 3-10 13
Definitely not unreasonable. They are the best teams. I never thought we'd be pretty squarely no.4-5 on the list and be 25 points behind them (or whatever our average margin of defeat is now in these 7 games). These are great teams, no doubt. Its hard to understand how we can be a few games behind record wise and be this far away from them in games. I'm not expecting to be better than them, but its hard to imagine that at this point in the season, after the success we've had in other games against some pretty good teams, that we're this far behind.
How about this take: Talented enough to beat all but probably 3-5 teams in the league fairly consistently (I'd add in Houston and Lakers). Not good enough from a team perspective to eclipse those above.
IMO Knicks have not gelled and played well enough as a team. It's there in flashes but not consistency. Starts and ends with Brunson on O (getting others involved and making it easy for them) and KAT on D (PnR defense).
BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:The 2 prediction threads for this year. No one predicted that Knicks would be a contending team and the most optimistic is around 56 wins?https://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/top...
https://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/top...
I knew it was going to take time. The question is how does the team improve with no picks of value and the second apron looming in the horizon?
Cleveland probably were asking the same questions after they traded for Donovan and got iced by NY?
We don't have a young core of Allen, Garland and Mobley. I think their upside was always factored in when the Cavs made that trade. Also, that trade was made before this new CBA kicked in.
So they do and did get a couple of years to get it right.
martin wrote:VDesai wrote:martin wrote:I don't think it's unreasonable to say that Boston, Cleveland, and OKC are in a class of their own. Houston may not be far behind and need more time.Total wins for the top 10 teams in the league record wise against each other. BOS CLE OK got 40+ wins total. NY MEM DEN HOU got 35-37, rest got 32-35.
CLE OKC BOS NY MEM DEN HOU LAL IND MIL Record Games
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CLE 1-1 1-2 2-0 1-0 2-0 0-2 2-0 1-1 0-0 10-6 16
OKC 1-1 1-0 2-0 2-0 1-1 2-1 1-0 1-0 1-0 12-3 15
BOS 2-1 0-1 3-0 0-1 1-0 1-1 0-1 1-2 3-0 11-7 18NY 0-2 0-2 0-3 1-0 2-0 1-1 0-1 2-1 2-0 8-10 18
MEM 0-1 0-2 1-0 0-1 1-1 1-3 1-2 0-0 2-0 6-10 16
DEN 0-2 1-1 0-1 0-2 1-1 0-1 1-1 0-0 0-0 3-9 12
HOU 2-0 1-2 1-1 1-1 3-1 1-0 1-0 1-0 0-1 11-6 17
LAL 0-2 0-1 1-0 1-0 2-1 1-1 0-1 1-0 0-0 6-6 12
IND 1-1 0-1 2-1 1-2 1-1 0-0 0-1 0-1 0-2 5-8 13
MIL 0-2 0-1 0-3 0-2 0-2 0-0 1-0 0-0 2-0 3-10 13
Definitely not unreasonable. They are the best teams. I never thought we'd be pretty squarely no.4-5 on the list and be 25 points behind them (or whatever our average margin of defeat is now in these 7 games). These are great teams, no doubt. Its hard to understand how we can be a few games behind record wise and be this far away from them in games. I'm not expecting to be better than them, but its hard to imagine that at this point in the season, after the success we've had in other games against some pretty good teams, that we're this far behind.
How about this take: Talented enough to beat all but probably 3-5 teams in the league fairly consistently (I'd add in Houston and Lakers). Not good enough from a team perspective to eclipse those above.
IMO Knicks have not gelled and played well enough as a team. It's there in flashes but not consistency. Starts and ends with Brunson on O (getting others involved and making it easy for them) and KAT on D (PnR defense).
What I'm saying is that the above is a realistic and reasonable take to have on this team right now- and that's where I was at before this past week, but continually getting our doors blown off in similar fashion against these top 3 teams is giving me pause. Its one thing to be no.4 or 5 and a tier below, but we appears to be so far off being competetive.
You know what? F it. After Thibs put injured KAT back in the game that was already lost against the Celtics...I am on the "Fire Thibs" bandwagon. Premium players like KAT are our future, and I am done with Thibs. It's over. Get thus man out of here.
The real question is how much damage to our players health will it take to fire Thibs.....
ramtour420 wrote:You know what? F it. After Thibs put injured KAT back in the game that was already lost against the Celtics...I am on the "Fire Thibs" bandwagon. Premium players like KAT are our future, and I am done with Thibs. It's over. Get thus man out of here.
lucky for us Thibs is closer to Pop here and Leon doesnt seem to be tuned into the whiney fan base.
Long live Thibs!
martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:The 2 prediction threads for this year. No one predicted that Knicks would be a contending team and the most optimistic is around 56 wins?https://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/top...
https://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/top...
I knew it was going to take time. The question is how does the team improve with no picks of value and the second apron looming in the horizon?
Cleveland probably were asking the same questions after they traded for Donovan and got iced by NY?
We don't have a young core of Allen, Garland and Mobley. I think their upside was always factored in when the Cavs made that trade. Also, that trade was made before this new CBA kicked in.
So they do and did get a couple of years to get it right.
The difference is that the Cavs had a visible plan for improvement. I don't think anyone can a strategy for improving the team as it stands. I'm more than open for ideas. Maybe the cap increases enough to add another vet bench piece? Maybe a Mitch and Deuce trade package? That's a tough one due their relatively low combined salary. And plus, that would mean diminishing an already weak bench. Brock has his job cut out for him.
