Knicks · Fire Thibs (page 44)

One man’s opinion

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Why Knicks look poised to follow Cavs' model of success

The Cavs assembled one of the most promising cores in the NBA and two years later, they have the league's best record. Are the Knicks on the same path?

Kris PursiainenJan 30, 2025 at 10:11 AM ET

After the New York Knicks' 122-112 victory over the Denver Nuggets on Wednesday, Jalen Brunson gave reporters reasons for optimism.

“I think we're understanding each other a lot more,” Brunson said of the group assembled this past offseason. “It's just, uh, we're clicking. And we're going to continue to click.”

The Knicks are on a five-game winning streak. Over the past ten days, they have the NBA's best net rating and are only one game behind the second-seeded Boston Celtics in the standings. But despite having made runs to the second round of the NBA Playoffs in each of the last two seasons, these Knicks are missing something that no amount of offensive firepower can supplant.

While the Knicks' starting lineup might be the most talented in the NBA, they'll need more than a few months to gel and consistently show it. The synergy that helped teams like the Celtics and Nuggets win championships has not fully developed yet.

Karl-Anthony Towns has experience playing on teams that needed to entirely adjust their style of play because of new personnel. The former Timberwolves star told the media after a 25-point loss to the Thunder on January 10 that games like that would be part of the process.

“All 82 [games] ain't going to go perfect,” said Towns. “I can tell you there's going to be a lot of times we don't look like the team that we were four weeks ago and we're going to remind everyone a week later and then we're going to be a whole other version three weeks from then.”

Why this Knicks core deserves time to truly make its mark

Not even three weeks after Towns made his comments, the Knicks hosted De'Aaron Fox's Sacramento Kings, Ja Morant's Memphis Grizzlies, and scored 143 points against each team. Their Wednesday night defeat of the Denver Nuggets was the team's fifth straight win.

These Knicks aren't just playing their best basketball yet, but it looks like they're having more fun than ever. And the group is just beginning to scratch the surface in the team's third full month together.

Yes, it was Brunson who led New York to the second round in both the 2023 and 2024 NBA Playoffs. But he and Josh Hart are the only two Knicks who started a game in the 2023 Cavs playoff series and have played for the team this season. Center Mitchell Robinson is still on the roster but has yet to contribute due to injury.

The talent around Brunson has changed both in its level and style of impact. The Dallas Mavericks did not often task him with being a “floor general.” But as the talent around him has changed on the Knicks, what the team needs most from Brunson has too. He continues to show development as a playmaker and, as a result, has slightly changed his role with the team.

The additional talent allows Brunson's scoring to go from a necessity to a luxury. He's already averaging 0.8 more assists than last season while scoring 2.8 fewer points per game. And his playmaking talent grades out as the fourth-best in the NBA thus far this season, according to BBall Index.

Brunson was the scorer the Knicks needed against the Nuggets on Wednesday night. His 18-point third quarter serves as irrefutable proof of that. But the end of Wednesday night's win over the Nuggets was highlighted by his passing.

The guard put on a show, tallying four assists in just a two-minute and thirty-second stretch of play that put the game away, per Ian Begley of SNY. His 30-point, 15-assist performance in the win was one of his most impressive this season. But perhaps the most impressive statistic regarding Brunson's passing came in a text from my Knicks Film School co-host Mensa Smith after the Knicks' win over Denver.

“Fun fact: Jalen Brunson’s career-high games in assists are 17 and 15,” Smith wrote. “They both came this season against the Denver Nuggets.”

The Knicks are on an upward trajectory. Brunson figuring out he can dominate games in different ways is part of that. But what's next for this team? And what mindset is necessary to accomplish it?

What the Knicks can learn from the Cavaliers' growing pains

But the NBA landscape at large took a more hesitant approach to judging Cleveland's aggression. Acknowledgments of the team's talent, youth, and potential were often accompanied by doubt that anything would come of it.

The skeptics were partially proven right in 2023. Funnily enough, fans were not as confident in the team after the Cavaliers were physically dominated by the Knicks in the first round of the 2023 NBA Playoffs. Jarrett Allen's infamous post-series remark about the “lights being too bright” for the team did not help.

But the Cavaliers still pushed forward. That offseason, they added both Max Strus and Georges Niang and extended Caris LeVert's contract. In January 2025, the team has the best record in the NBA at 38-9. Acknowledgments of the group's upside ended up being more clairvoyant than any of the doubts regarding a potential extension for Mitchell.

None of this magically fell into place for the Cavaliers. The team knew its core was not a typical assembly of NBA stars, incepted by friends deciding at a 30th birthday party to solve their mid-career crises by teaming up. The Cavs trusted that they had the “right group of people” in the building and stayed the course.

In the time since the team's acquisition of Mitchell, the roster around him has not drastically changed. But players like Mobley, Garland, and Mitchell himself have developed. This season, Mobley is on track to record both the highest usage rate of his career and a new best offensive EPM, per Dunks & Threes. Garland has found the best balance between scoring and playmaking of his career. And the leap Mitchell took as a playmaker in the 2024 season helped pave the way for both of those developments.

The Cavaliers were designed to be good with plenty of room for improvement. In 2025, the Knicks are the team making its first true foray into the stratosphere of contention that needs the patience the NBA landscape didn't give the Cavaliers.

Why the Knicks' best option is staying the course

The Knicks' core is mostly under contract through the 2025-26 NBA season, including key bench players and the team's recent draft picks. And Towns, Brunson, Hart, McBride, and OG Anunoby are signed through 2027. Bridges' contract expires after the 2026 season but reports indicate he'll extend with the Knicks after this season.

The team is tied with the Grizzlies for the league's fifth-best record at 31-16. This is just the start for this Knick group. The players seem to understand that it will take time for them to develop championship-level synergy.

And if the fanbase, front office, and ownership are willing to stay patient and allow the team time to both make mistakes and learn from them? There's no telling what this team's ceiling could be.

Brunson and Towns were just named All-Star starters, giving the Knickerbockers their first duo of starters since 1975. The team has a head coach in Tom Thibodeau whom its players love playing for. And the only player on the roster older than 29 is veteran guard Cam Payne.

The Knicks' front office built this team to be great now. But it truly built it to be a dynasty going forward. Not even five years after the team hired Leon Rose to run basketball operations, he has the main pieces to the puzzle in the building. Now it's time to figure out how they fit together best.

Following Rose's plan has served the Knicks well thus far. The team has no reason to panic and deviate from it. Brunson, the team's captain, understands this. He told the media as much after beating Denver in their annual game at Madison Square Garden for the third straight season.

“Uh, we've played,” Brunson started, but then paused, “–what's our record? 32-16? What is that, 48 games together? Just knowing each other, talking to each other, having better communication, making sure we're on the same page – that just comes with time.”

franco12 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

franco12 wrote:I don’t understand why anyone didn’t expect them to compete this year? They are not getting any younger- they are in their peak athletic years- 28, 29.

Did no one watch last year and the January Knicks- who absolutely looked like world champions. And then injuries took us out of contention.

It’s not just the top teams we struggle against. I mean, we needed overtime to eke out a victory against the Chicago Bulls who sit 10th at 386. Sorry. Don’t give me any BS about we were short handed or a win is a win.

Anyone that actually pays attention to the rest of the league understood why the Knicks weren't ready to compete for a chip. The Celts won the chip last year....isnt their core in the peak athletic years too? Tatem is 26 and Brown is 28. They have played together for 8 seaons. Towns and Bridges have played with their teamates for 57 games!

OKC is a better team than we are and that was obvious coming into the season, if you watched them last year. If you watched the Cavs, you knew that they were Mobley leveling up on the offensive end and a more innovative coach away from beng one of the top 4 teams in the east. Mobley, took a bigger jumop than most expected, and Atkinson, has that team playing lights out on the offensive end with two really good run and jump athletes that can switch on PNR's and protect the rim.

Today, the Cavs, Celts and OKC have more balanced rosters than we do....Anyone thats not hyper-focused on the Knicks can see that.

Maybe you don’t have to expect them to win it all, but to be competitive with the top teams? We aren’t even that and that is the problem.

And again- after the stretch this group put together in January last year- if you had run that group back, healthy, and for a full year- yes, I think not insane to expect that they would have had as much chance as any of those other teams.

The run in January was entertaining but the business side of sports got in the way. iHart took more money from a younger and better team and I do not blame him. Randle had an extention coming up and a decision needed to be made...IMO, last years team would not be better than OKC, Boston or Cleveland. Either way, its hypothetical and last years team no longer exists....I rather focus on the here and now and how can we improve.

GustavBahler wrote:Id like to know what Leon was thinking when he watched Thibs put a clearly hobbled KAT back in the game, in a blowout.

I dont see a method to this madness, and putting Towns back in was clearly madness. Thibs does things like this because he can. About time Leon told Thibs to stop grinding his players down.

I’ve said this about Thibs the day he came here. He was grinding RJ and Randle. He grinds his players down, and leave no energy for the playoffs. Players love him for that. Fans hate it. He’s a perfect coach for a team full of old LeBron type players. Old school players. These new guys are built different in this load management era.

I did not see him as a development coach 4 years ago, until he got here.

I did not see him as a championship coach before or after he arrived.

I’ve complained about Thibs for years but always thought he was the best option at the time, so I stayed quiet and enjoyed the ride (no diddy). I think if we don’t get out of the second round and especially if we get swept, I would love to hear from Thibs fans. I like the guy and want him around. But I’m sorry guys, I never saw Thibs as a legit head coach. I thought his best position was on the coaching staff teaching defense and now we can add developing players.

Thibs has been great. But almost every championship team had a coaching change at some point, before going on a run.

We have an offensive load management team and a defensive grind them down coach. That’s a bad mix to me. Either load up his coaching staff with dantoni type offensive minded coaches. Or trade one of the offensive players for a top two way player (Yannus). Something has to give. Otherwise we will continue to be MID.

The is not a championship coach until he wins one as head coach. Thats pretty obvious.
One sees him as assistant on a championship team. That was with Boston.
So you think thru an obvious lens.

Given the amount of roster changes knicks experienced I don't think its fair to say he has taken this group as far as he can.
Maybe it comes to that. Sometimes it does. Sometimes its a roster change.

We have gone from an elite defensive team that has not won a chip to an elite offensive team that has not won a chip.
Seems he can change based on personal. Thats a new one. Were were told he is very stuck in his ways.
Also that he does not develop players. He does.
He plays his stars big minutes. Unless load managed, so does other teams.

Somewhere way back in this thread, amidst a 7 game losing streak, I was making the argument to Fire Thibs. Now, shortly after that, the team made a bit of a turn. The ball starting flowing better. Shots falling. I never really thought about the concept again.

I know the Knicks look lost right now. Specifically against the best teams in the league. The ball isn’t moving as much. The shots aren’t falling as easily. Guys look tired and beat up.

1) Playmaker Brunson is better for this team than scorer Brunson.

2) We are too reliant on the midrange. It’s a low efficiency, low TS% shot. The offensive players we have absolutely have the ability to be a top offensive- by large margins. Even at 2nd best, we are underperforming our skill set.

3) The defensive scheme needs work. I think this team might need to trust its players more rather than collapsing the paint. Probably need to swap Hart out when Mitch is back. Not that this would be the best lineup, but it will allow the team to guard the perimeter better knowing that Beast is in the paint. It will come at the cost of the midrange, but with Brunson, Bridges, Anunoby and KAT around the perimeter, it’s going to be ok. Teams cheat if Hart anyway. Will have to make up for Hart’s intangibles. But he can also spell the 2, 3, and 4 giving better rest.

4) Really gotta have more faith in the 3 and a rebounding scheme to get the long rebounds. That’s where Bridges and OG need to step up and get to those long rebounds.

Brunson/Bridges/OG/KAT/Beast.

Now, if Robinson magically learned an offensive move or two and gained some passing, a 4-1 would work really well.

I kind of think this is the best we cans do with this personnel.

fire Thibs is baby shit.

Glad we settled that. You can lock this one up

EwingsGlass wrote:Somewhere way back in this thread, amidst a 7 game losing streak, I was making the argument to Fire Thibs. Now, shortly after that, the team made a bit of a turn. The ball starting flowing better. Shots falling. I never really thought about the concept again.

I know the Knicks look lost right now. Specifically against the best teams in the league. The ball isn’t moving as much. The shots aren’t falling as easily. Guys look tired and beat up.

1) Playmaker Brunson is better for this team than scorer Brunson.

2) We are too reliant on the midrange. It’s a low efficiency, low TS% shot. The offensive players we have absolutely have the ability to be a top offensive- by large margins. Even at 2nd best, we are underperforming our skill set.

3) The defensive scheme needs work. I think this team might need to trust its players more rather than collapsing the paint. Probably need to swap Hart out when Mitch is back. Not that this would be the best lineup, but it will allow the team to guard the perimeter better knowing that Beast is in the paint. It will come at the cost of the midrange, but with Brunson, Bridges, Anunoby and KAT around the perimeter, it’s going to be ok. Teams cheat if Hart anyway. Will have to make up for Hart’s intangibles. But he can also spell the 2, 3, and 4 giving better rest.

4) Really gotta have more faith in the 3 and a rebounding scheme to get the long rebounds. That’s where Bridges and OG need to step up and get to those long rebounds.

Brunson/Bridges/OG/KAT/Beast.

Now, if Robinson magically learned an offensive move or two and gained some passing, a 4-1 would work really well.

I kind of think this is the best we cans do with this personnel.

Love this take. Thoughtful without using any vulgar or finger pointing. If only most posters responded like this.

I was in the same boat and then retracted and said, this may be the best we have right now.

Sometimes we / I have to step back and see the entire picture. And what Léon and Thibs has done was an amazing turnaround. We went from being the laughing stock to a championship contender.

Agree….Thibs is not a championship coach until he wins a championship. I’ll take that.

But on the other hand, if more news comes out that KAT re-injured his surgical repaired knee. The mins police will be coming for Thibs head. It’s a catch 22 on this. You want a coach that caters to his player which is Thibs. If KAT is on one leg but tells coach I’m fine let me in. You love that about KAT and players love that about coach. But this is no longer a fan complaint. The media is starting to join in and attack Thibs mins and rotation.

We really need a new Thibs feedback thread. The title is very misleading, but the content and conversation is great. This was created with emotional impulse I’m sure and Sorry to all the Thibs fans for digging this thread up, it’s not meant to fire Thibs but to express how we as fans feel about our head coach. It’s honest criticism.

After the Boston massacre I’ve calm down a bit and came to the realization we are the cavs of last year. Or a team that’s just starting to build. I trust Leon and company to make the necessary adjustments to improve this team. Even if he made any mistakes like the mikal trade (jury still out). I still trust that Leon and Thibs will continue to drive us to success. Championship? Not with this roster.

ramtour420 wrote:

fishmike wrote:lol we keep losing to the champs... must be the coach. Feels like I have heard this song before.

Don't care about losing to the Champs. But I do love me a coach that runs his players into the ground! That's the sure way to win a Championship! Make their window even shorter! Derrick Rose says "Hi" Oh and who needs a strategy to defend 3 point land? Forget that, ain't got no time for that!

Yeah, Thibs is GrEaT!!

Rose tore his ACL and that ended his time as a superstar because his game was based entirely on his insane lateral quickness. Was that a freak injury or a result of Thibs “running him into the ground?” I believe it was the former. ACL tears can happen at any time to anybody.

blkexec wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Id like to know what Leon was thinking when he watched Thibs put a clearly hobbled KAT back in the game, in a blowout.

I dont see a method to this madness, and putting Towns back in was clearly madness. Thibs does things like this because he can. About time Leon told Thibs to stop grinding his players down.

I’ve said this about Thibs the day he came here. He was grinding RJ and Randle. He grinds his players down, and leave no energy for the playoffs. Players love him for that. Fans hate it. He’s a perfect coach for a team full of old LeBron type players. Old school players. These new guys are built different in this load management era.

I did not see him as a development coach 4 years ago, until he got here.

I did not see him as a championship coach before or after he arrived.

I’ve complained about Thibs for years but always thought he was the best option at the time, so I stayed quiet and enjoyed the ride (no diddy). I think if we don’t get out of the second round and especially if we get swept, I would love to hear from Thibs fans. I like the guy and want him around. But I’m sorry guys, I never saw Thibs as a legit head coach. I thought his best position was on the coaching staff teaching defense and now we can add developing players.

Thibs has been great. But almost every championship team had a coaching change at some point, before going on a run.

We have an offensive load management team and a defensive grind them down coach. That’s a bad mix to me. Either load up his coaching staff with dantoni type offensive minded coaches. Or trade one of the offensive players for a top two way player (Yannus). Something has to give. Otherwise we will continue to be MID.

If you want a good back and forth, you also gotta start on common ground and make a good faith effort on things?

Like, maybe your definition of MID is not the same as everyone else? How is a team with a top 5'ish record MID ?

Thibs was grinding both RJ and Randle? Can you help us define what you mean by that?

You starting with not seeing Thibs as a legit head coach is kind of a dead-ender. Why would anyone engage you past that? There is literally nothing to engage you on.

Every year there are like 29 coaches that are near MID and are not legitimate coaches? Maybe start there?

I'm not firing Thibs until someone gives us a good replacement and Johnny Bryant or someone with no experience isn't it.

SergioNYK wrote:I'm not firing Thibs until someone gives us a good replacement and Johnny Bryant or someone with no experience isn't it.

we had WILD amounts of injuries and were still a game away from the ECFinals. The right players all say the right things and plenty of his old players phucking love him and will lay in traffic for him... but the world is such an echo chamber for this shit that Josh Hart addressed it on the crowd mic after a game

Kat comes back to bench, says he is good.
Pay the the man 49mil and he wants back in. Med staff checked him out.
He was limping. He wanted back in,
Perhaps we say "Warrior, dude is tough!". Or "Fuck, we losing,, what the fuck is Thibs doing!!! AHHHHHHH".

blkexec wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Somewhere way back in this thread, amidst a 7 game losing streak, I was making the argument to Fire Thibs. Now, shortly after that, the team made a bit of a turn. The ball starting flowing better. Shots falling. I never really thought about the concept again.

I know the Knicks look lost right now. Specifically against the best teams in the league. The ball isn’t moving as much. The shots aren’t falling as easily. Guys look tired and beat up.

1) Playmaker Brunson is better for this team than scorer Brunson.

2) We are too reliant on the midrange. It’s a low efficiency, low TS% shot. The offensive players we have absolutely have the ability to be a top offensive- by large margins. Even at 2nd best, we are underperforming our skill set.

3) The defensive scheme needs work. I think this team might need to trust its players more rather than collapsing the paint. Probably need to swap Hart out when Mitch is back. Not that this would be the best lineup, but it will allow the team to guard the perimeter better knowing that Beast is in the paint. It will come at the cost of the midrange, but with Brunson, Bridges, Anunoby and KAT around the perimeter, it’s going to be ok. Teams cheat if Hart anyway. Will have to make up for Hart’s intangibles. But he can also spell the 2, 3, and 4 giving better rest.

4) Really gotta have more faith in the 3 and a rebounding scheme to get the long rebounds. That’s where Bridges and OG need to step up and get to those long rebounds.

Brunson/Bridges/OG/KAT/Beast.

Now, if Robinson magically learned an offensive move or two and gained some passing, a 4-1 would work really well.

I kind of think this is the best we cans do with this personnel.

Love this take. Thoughtful without using any vulgar or finger pointing. If only most posters responded like this.

I was in the same boat and then retracted and said, this may be the best we have right now.

Sometimes we / I have to step back and see the entire picture. And what Léon and Thibs has done was an amazing turnaround. We went from being the laughing stock to a championship contender.

Agree….Thibs is not a championship coach until he wins a championship. I’ll take that.

But on the other hand, if more news comes out that KAT re-injured his surgical repaired knee. The mins police will be coming for Thibs head. It’s a catch 22 on this. You want a coach that caters to his player which is Thibs. If KAT is on one leg but tells coach I’m fine let me in. You love that about KAT and players love that about coach. But this is no longer a fan complaint. The media is starting to join in and attack Thibs mins and rotation.

We really need a new Thibs feedback thread. The title is very misleading, but the content and conversation is great. This was created with emotional impulse I’m sure and Sorry to all the Thibs fans for digging this thread up, it’s not meant to fire Thibs but to express how we as fans feel about our head coach. It’s honest criticism.

After the Boston massacre I’ve calm down a bit and came to the realization we are the cavs of last year. Or a team that’s just starting to build. I trust Leon and company to make the necessary adjustments to improve this team. Even if he made any mistakes like the mikal trade (jury still out). I still trust that Leon and Thibs will continue to drive us to success. Championship? Not with this roster.

Well done!!!!

I do not care if KAT wants to play 48 mins on two injured knees. That's not his decision. That's Thibs responsibility to manage the minutes. Anyone that says he is doing a good job on that is just being ignorant after the body of work this season.
What happened in Boston is just an exclamation point, a freaking wake up call! I don't want to FAFO, I want Thibs gone after we get swept in the playoffs by Cavs or Boston. I respect the man as a coach, but he has taken us as far as he can. Time for a coach with a real offensive scheme, I want cuts, passes and I want more than one screen per possession! I want more than one screen per play! Off the ball screens, backdoor cuts, the whole thing. We cannot expect to win anything substantial if we keep defending the 3 like this.....

fishmike wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:I'm not firing Thibs until someone gives us a good replacement and Johnny Bryant or someone with no experience isn't it.

we had WILD amounts of injuries and were still a game away from the ECFinals. The right players all say the right things and plenty of his old players phucking love him and will lay in traffic for him... but the world is such an echo chamber for this shit that Josh Hart addressed it on the crowd mic after a game

Players can love Thibs and want to do anything for him, and he can still be the wrong coach.

I’m getting tired of the minutes- I mean, look at the game in Boston - that was just stupid sending Kat out after he tweaked his knee. Actually, if I were the owner, I would fire him on the spot for that. Game was over in the first half. We made a small, unremarkable run to make the score look like it wasn’t the blowout it was. Who feels better after that?

So - play Kolek, Hukporti, Dadiet - and we get blown out by 40 instead of losing by 13? Did he have money on the game?

I agree though that I don’t see a better option out there- certainly not Mo or Jalen’s dad.

I also am willing to accept that maybe the Knicks need to move Kat and/or Bridges over the summer.

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:I'm not firing Thibs until someone gives us a good replacement and Johnny Bryant or someone with no experience isn't it.

we had WILD amounts of injuries and were still a game away from the ECFinals. The right players all say the right things and plenty of his old players phucking love him and will lay in traffic for him... but the world is such an echo chamber for this shit that Josh Hart addressed it on the crowd mic after a game

Players can love Thibs and want to do anything for him, and he can still be the wrong coach.

I’m getting tired of the minutes- I mean, look at the game in Boston - that was just stupid sending Kat out after he tweaked his knee. Actually, if I were the owner, I would fire him on the spot for that. Game was over in the first half. We made a small, unremarkable run to make the score look like it wasn’t the blowout it was. Who feels better after that?

So - play Kolek, Hukporti, Dadiet - and we get blown out by 40 instead of losing by 13? Did he have money on the game?

I agree though that I don’t see a better option out there- certainly not Mo or Jalen’s dad.

I also am willing to accept that maybe the Knicks need to move Kat and/or Bridges over the summer.

I dont think we need to trade KAT, or move him to PF. He will end up going back to being mostly a spot up shooter from 3. I like this version of KAT better. I would trade Bridges and/or OG first.

I wrote that we should play our string out with Bridges, considering what we gave up for him. But Im starting to waiver. We win a lot more when OG is on the court. The FO should ask themselves if OG is on the court enough to justify the big contract.

I want to see a lot more 2 man game between JB/KAT. More screens set for JB so he has more left at the end of the game, the season.

As far as who to trade and keep, who should be the head coach going forward, the playoffs should give us a good idea.

This team is elite offensively despite not playing to its strengths. This team is mid defensively despite having excellent defenders.
The team is clearly not playing at its full potential on both ends of the court.
Is it the lack of time together for the chemistry to settle in? Is it the coach? I don't know.

I really dislike the gazillion 3pts shots attempted by the league nowadays but it wins games when you have the personel.
We do and instead we have the 4th worst team in the league in 3pts attempted.
JB, KAT, OG, mikal, deuce, payne, shamet are all above average career 3pts shooters. We have better shooters than the celtics.

And being dead last in defending the 3pts shot is not gonna cut it in today's nba. We also have the personel to be a good defensive team. OG, Hart, mikal, precious, mitch, deuce are good defensive players.

Something isn't right with the way this team plays but the roster has all the tools to be a contender. Obviously not this year but once (or if) they run on all cylinders, beware.

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Id like to know what Leon was thinking when he watched Thibs put a clearly hobbled KAT back in the game, in a blowout.

I dont see a method to this madness, and putting Towns back in was clearly madness. Thibs does things like this because he can. About time Leon told Thibs to stop grinding his players down.

I’ve said this about Thibs the day he came here. He was grinding RJ and Randle. He grinds his players down, and leave no energy for the playoffs. Players love him for that. Fans hate it. He’s a perfect coach for a team full of old LeBron type players. Old school players. These new guys are built different in this load management era.

I did not see him as a development coach 4 years ago, until he got here.

I did not see him as a championship coach before or after he arrived.

I’ve complained about Thibs for years but always thought he was the best option at the time, so I stayed quiet and enjoyed the ride (no diddy). I think if we don’t get out of the second round and especially if we get swept, I would love to hear from Thibs fans. I like the guy and want him around. But I’m sorry guys, I never saw Thibs as a legit head coach. I thought his best position was on the coaching staff teaching defense and now we can add developing players.

Thibs has been great. But almost every championship team had a coaching change at some point, before going on a run.

We have an offensive load management team and a defensive grind them down coach. That’s a bad mix to me. Either load up his coaching staff with dantoni type offensive minded coaches. Or trade one of the offensive players for a top two way player (Yannus). Something has to give. Otherwise we will continue to be MID.

If you want a good back and forth, you also gotta start on common ground and make a good faith effort on things?

Like, maybe your definition of MID is not the same as everyone else? How is a team with a top 5'ish record MID ?

Thibs was grinding both RJ and Randle? Can you help us define what you mean by that?

You starting with not seeing Thibs as a legit head coach is kind of a dead-ender. Why would anyone engage you past that? There is literally nothing to engage you on.

Every year there are like 29 coaches that are near MID and are not legitimate coaches? Maybe start there?

MID is who we are right now. We lose to top teams and beat the bottom teams. Win the first round against a MID team. Get embarrassed in the 2nd round against a top team.

RJ and Randle was near the top in minutes played. Before that you have the examples in Chicago and minny. After that you have the examples today. 4 of our starters are top in mins played. He’s late to pull the starters in wins or loses. The media is also getting louder on this point, they even made hart respond to the mins police during a post game interview.

I’m on record saying I never saw Thibs as a legit head coach. Not looking for a debate on this, because #1 Coaches can grow into a head coaching position and old dogs can learn new tricks. #2 I don’t have a replacement coach in mind unless we talking Jay Wright maybe. And that’s only due to all the nova players we have.

Regarding Thibs, KATS response says it best.

It is what it is.

There’s enough issues and debates to go around. But sometimes these issues are out of our control, like the cavs, Celtics and OKC are just better than us right now. REGARDLESS WHOS COACHING THE KNICKS

Let me add that watching the Cavs smoke Orlando last night had me feeling a wee bit better. But, that only has me thinking we blew it when we had the chance to get Mitchell.

blkexec wrote:

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Id like to know what Leon was thinking when he watched Thibs put a clearly hobbled KAT back in the game, in a blowout.

I dont see a method to this madness, and putting Towns back in was clearly madness. Thibs does things like this because he can. About time Leon told Thibs to stop grinding his players down.

I’ve said this about Thibs the day he came here. He was grinding RJ and Randle. He grinds his players down, and leave no energy for the playoffs. Players love him for that. Fans hate it. He’s a perfect coach for a team full of old LeBron type players. Old school players. These new guys are built different in this load management era.

I did not see him as a development coach 4 years ago, until he got here.

I did not see him as a championship coach before or after he arrived.

I’ve complained about Thibs for years but always thought he was the best option at the time, so I stayed quiet and enjoyed the ride (no diddy). I think if we don’t get out of the second round and especially if we get swept, I would love to hear from Thibs fans. I like the guy and want him around. But I’m sorry guys, I never saw Thibs as a legit head coach. I thought his best position was on the coaching staff teaching defense and now we can add developing players.

Thibs has been great. But almost every championship team had a coaching change at some point, before going on a run.

We have an offensive load management team and a defensive grind them down coach. That’s a bad mix to me. Either load up his coaching staff with dantoni type offensive minded coaches. Or trade one of the offensive players for a top two way player (Yannus). Something has to give. Otherwise we will continue to be MID.

If you want a good back and forth, you also gotta start on common ground and make a good faith effort on things?

Like, maybe your definition of MID is not the same as everyone else? How is a team with a top 5'ish record MID ?

Thibs was grinding both RJ and Randle? Can you help us define what you mean by that?

You starting with not seeing Thibs as a legit head coach is kind of a dead-ender. Why would anyone engage you past that? There is literally nothing to engage you on.

Every year there are like 29 coaches that are near MID and are not legitimate coaches? Maybe start there?

MID is who we are right now. We lose to top teams and beat the bottom teams. Win the first round against a MID team. Get embarrassed in the 2nd round against a top team.

RJ and Randle was near the top in minutes played. Before that you have the examples in Chicago and minny. After that you have the examples today. 4 of our starters are top in mins played. He’s late to pull the starters in wins or loses. The media is also getting louder on this point, they even made hart respond to the mins police during a post game interview.

I’m on record saying I never saw Thibs as a legit head coach. Not looking for a debate on this, because #1 Coaches can grow into a head coaching position and old dogs can learn new tricks. #2 I don’t have a replacement coach in mind unless we talking Jay Wright maybe. And that’s only due to all the nova players we have.

Regarding Thibs, KATS response says it best.

It is what it is.

There’s enough issues and debates to go around. But sometimes these issues are out of our control, like the cavs, Celtics and OKC are just better than us right now. REGARDLESS WHOS COACHING THE KNICKS

I guess?

All the good teams grind their players, especially dependent on the rest of their roster. Boston been doing that to Jaylen and Tatum for a while now and so too the other teams and their best players. I would not include RJ in that list but you group him there.

All but 3 teams are kinda MID this year.

SergioNYK wrote:I'm not firing Thibs until someone gives us a good replacement and Johnny Bryant or someone with no experience isn't it.

The replacement is already on the coaching staff, Maurice Cheeks. I’m definitely not on the fire Thibs train but the team has looked tired last few weeks the lack of load management seems to be a thing. At some point Thibs has to compromise this ain’t 1992.

I want KAT to rest tonight. Use Huk off the bench.