Knicks · Some numbers from our big three and some others. (page 1)

HofstraBBall @ 11/30/2022 1:33 PM
Knicks are 7-3 when Randle has taken more than 16 shots in a game.
Knicks 3-9 when Randle takes 15 or less.
Knicks 4-6 when JB takes 16 or more shots.
Knicks 6-5 when JB takes 15 or less.
Knicks are 8-6 when RJ takes 16 or more.
Knicks are 2-5 when RJ takes 15 or less.
Total Plus games thus far: JB 12, RJ 9, Randle 9
7 out of Knicks 10 wins came when JB has more than 7 dimes.

Knicks record based on Minutes played:
When plays under 30 minutes Knicks are: JB 2-2, RJ 2-2, Randle 1-2
Plays 30-35 Knicks are JB 5-6, RJ 1-3. Randle 7-7
Plays Over 35: JB 2-3, RJ 7-6, Randle 2-2

Games shooting over 40% from the field:
RJ 10 out of 21 Knicks 5-5 in those 10.
JB 17 out of 21, Knicks 10-7
Randle 16 out of 21, Knicks 9-7

Others:

Out of 5115 minutes played, Players 24 and under have played 3204 minutes.
IQ has played the most minutes off the bench with 476, Hart second with 464, Cam 414 and Obi 372.
When IQ plays more than 20 minutes Knicks are 8-6
When IQ plays less than 15 minutes Knicks are 0-2
When Cam plays more than 20, Knicks are 4-5
When Cam plays less than 15, Knicks are 2-2
When Obi plays more than 20 minutes Knicks are 4-1
When Obi plays less than 15 minutes Knicks are 2-5

Shooting over 40% from 3pt:
IQ 8 games. Obi 7, JB 9, RJ 7, Randle 7, Cam 8
Shooting over 50% FG
IQ 8, Obi 10, JB 13, RJ 7, Randle 8, Cam 7

Philc1 @ 12/1/2022 12:21 PM
Probably most telling stat is the record when Obi actually gets minutes. More likely just a case of those games being blowouts facing lesser teams in which Obi got more minutes due to garbage time but still
HofstraBBall @ 12/1/2022 5:15 PM
Philc1 wrote:Probably most telling stat is the record when Obi actually gets minutes. More likely just a case of those games being blowouts facing lesser teams in which Obi got more minutes due to garbage time but still

Probably right.

The issue with Obi is that he does not defend well or is physical underneath. Rarely gets rebounds. Which is not good for a PF. I wanted us to draft him since he was the best available but I expected a Kenyon Martin type. Not a dunking Kevin Knox. Still early but just hard to expect he will be a top level PF. Do think his three is better though. We just need more.

ramtour420 @ 12/1/2022 5:39 PM
Obi would be pretty amazing in a system. Imagine him in an offence that uses cuts to the rim and passing to those cutters? Or a system that pushes the tempo hard off of made shots. Or an offense centered around the PnR where the Roll part is actually used at least half the time. . . He would very easily average 25 points with high efficiency.
ramtour420 @ 12/1/2022 5:45 PM
The way our team is right now we have only 1 way to win close games like the one against the Bucks. We need to give the ball to our best ISO player, Brunson. Either he scores using his bag of tricks or kicks it out to an open shooter. Preferably the first option. That's it. RJ or Randle trying to shoot it with the game on the line while being defended should never be allowed, like ever. Brunson is just way more consistent, period
HofstraBBall @ 12/1/2022 5:53 PM
ramtour420 wrote:Obi would be pretty amazing in a system. Imagine him in an offence that uses cuts to the rim and passing to those cutters? Or a system that pushes the tempo hard off of made shots. Or an offense centered around the PnR where the Roll part is actually used at least half the time. . . He would very easily average 25 points with high efficiency.

Who plays that type of system. And why would that team pick Obi as their main PnR player?

HofstraBBall @ 12/1/2022 6:00 PM
ramtour420 wrote:The way our team is right now we have only 1 way to win close games like the one against the Bucks. We need to give the ball to our best ISO player, Brunson. Either he scores using his bag of tricks or kicks it out to an open shooter. Preferably the first option. That's it. RJ or Randle trying to shoot it with the game on the line while being defended should never be allowed, like ever. Brunson is just way more consistent, period

That is what has mostly happened. JB tries to take game over. Has not worked. You will point to RJs bad shot last night, but we have had several others in which JB took it upon himself and it was not enough. Randle has not been given the ball in a last second type situation this year.

The problem with the bold above is that JB rarely kicks it out once in the middle of opening up his bag of tricks. Secondly, we do not have a knock down shooter to kick it out to. Maybe the former I curs if we get the latter.

martin @ 12/1/2022 8:18 PM
Philc1 @ 12/1/2022 11:14 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
Philc1 wrote:Probably most telling stat is the record when Obi actually gets minutes. More likely just a case of those games being blowouts facing lesser teams in which Obi got more minutes due to garbage time but still

Probably right.

The issue with Obi is that he does not defend well or is physical underneath. Rarely gets rebounds. Which is not good for a PF. I wanted us to draft him since he was the best available but I expected a Kenyon Martin type. Not a dunking Kevin Knox. Still early but just hard to expect he will be a top level PF. Do think his three is better though. We just need more.

KMart was an excellent low post defender. Obi will never be that. His rebounding has been fine he just hasn’t been getting the minutes to put up the corresponding numbers in that area. His shooting has been much better this year than his first 2 years.


I doubt Obi will ever get a shot to be a full time player here. Randle is too durable and practically untradeable for at least another year and a half

ramtour420 @ 12/2/2022 2:58 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:Obi would be pretty amazing in a system. Imagine him in an offence that uses cuts to the rim and passing to those cutters? Or a system that pushes the tempo hard off of made shots. Or an offense centered around the PnR where the Roll part is actually used at least half the time. . . He would very easily average 25 points with high efficiency.

Who plays that type of system. And why would that team pick Obi as their main PnR player?


To answer your first question: Denver plays something like that with Joker finding cutters with precision. Hartenstein has shown he is very capable of providing that.

Now the second question: The two approaches to offense do not necessarily need to be implemented together. But let's imagine that we also start using the PnR like a that. Obi would probably not even be the main PnR player as Randle would flourish in that role also( think the Mailman 2.0) Randle and Obi both are exceptional finishers around the rim if only they can get downhill, which being the roller in PnR does.

EwingsGlass @ 12/2/2022 7:13 AM
martin wrote:

He’s been playing much better in 2022 and November. He kind of looks like he is tipping his his shots, looking for the box so he can shoot. Clearly under some form of instruction to move his shots into the paint or behind the arc. It’s kind of cute to watch as he is often looking down before he pulls the ball up.

His assists are down 2 per game in 2022 even though his usage is only down from 28% to 26%. This may be the Brunson effect, his passes may not be resulting in assists.

Not gonna say much about RJ. He needs to get his touch back. Less minutes might help. He looks exhausted.

Brunson is fantastic on offense and not a lot of length on defense. We knew this. Kind of disappointed with his “clutch” shots end of game, but again, I think Rhibs is overplaying these guys and they look exhausted.

HofstraBBall @ 12/2/2022 8:20 AM
ramtour420 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:Obi would be pretty amazing in a system. Imagine him in an offence that uses cuts to the rim and passing to those cutters? Or a system that pushes the tempo hard off of made shots. Or an offense centered around the PnR where the Roll part is actually used at least half the time. . . He would very easily average 25 points with high efficiency.

Who plays that type of system. And why would that team pick Obi as their main PnR player?


To answer your first question: Denver plays something like that with Joker finding cutters with precision. Hartenstein has shown he is very capable of providing that.

Now the second question: The two approaches to offense do not necessarily need to be implemented together. But let's imagine that we also start using the PnR like a that. Obi would probably not even be the main PnR player as Randle would flourish in that role also( think the Mailman 2.0) Randle and Obi both are exceptional finishers around the rim if only they can get downhill, which being the roller in PnR does.

True. Denver runs a lot high low offense with the Joker. Kinda of a zone breaker in college. Which allows Jokic to be at the fouls line and distribute. But they also run a lot of 5 out with joker at the arc as well to allow, Pipe, Murray, Porter and Gordon room to create
Same as we do.

My first point was that most teams run similar offenses. It was not to disagree that we should do more pick and roll. Our best roll option off a pick and roll is MR. Obi would probably be very good at this as well. However, both of them have yet to show they would be a pop option off PnR. Reason why Thibs sometimes backs off it since teams just need to cover the roll. Randle should be better since he can do both but has a tendancy to pop the majority of the time. But again, would love to see more.

My second point was that Obi still has a lot of work to do to fit in any system. He has yet to show any type of post up game or the ability to create off the dribble. And as mentioned, the short range catch and shoot game needed for a dual option off the PnR. I do not know if you have been to games but the ones I have been to I was fortunate enough to get seats behind the goals. Watching Obi battle other bigs gives you more a SF vibe. He is just not physical enough yet.

franco12 @ 12/2/2022 8:23 AM
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:

He’s been playing much better in 2022 and November. He kind of looks like he is tipping his his shots, looking for the box so he can shoot. Clearly under some form of instruction to move his shots into the paint or behind the arc. It’s kind of cute to watch as he is often looking down before he pulls the ball up.

His assists are down 2 per game in 2022 even though his usage is only down from 28% to 26%. This may be the Brunson effect, his passes may not be resulting in assists.

Not gonna say much about RJ. He needs to get his touch back. Less minutes might help. He looks exhausted.

Brunson is fantastic on offense and not a lot of length on defense. We knew this. Kind of disappointed with his “clutch” shots end of game, but again, I think Rhibs is overplaying these guys and they look exhausted.

Is that a typo or a new nick name, cause if it is, I like it!

BigDaddyG @ 12/2/2022 8:30 AM
ramtour420 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:Obi would be pretty amazing in a system. Imagine him in an offence that uses cuts to the rim and passing to those cutters? Or a system that pushes the tempo hard off of made shots. Or an offense centered around the PnR where the Roll part is actually used at least half the time. . . He would very easily average 25 points with high efficiency.

Who plays that type of system. And why would that team pick Obi as their main PnR player?


To answer your first question: Denver plays something like that with Joker finding cutters with precision. Hartenstein has shown he is very capable of providing that.

Now the second question: The two approaches to offense do not necessarily need to be implemented together. But let's imagine that we also start using the PnR like a that. Obi would probably not even be the main PnR player as Randle would flourish in that role also( think the Mailman 2.0) Randle and Obi both are exceptional finishers around the rim if only they can get downhill, which being the roller in PnR does.


Utah and the way they use Lauri is another example. Lauri is a better movement shooter. Heck, Lauri is just a better player. But early in the season when Lauri wasn't shooting well, Utah was still finding him looks through off ball movement, early offense and spacing.
BigDaddyG @ 12/2/2022 8:32 AM
franco12 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:

He’s been playing much better in 2022 and November. He kind of looks like he is tipping his his shots, looking for the box so he can shoot. Clearly under some form of instruction to move his shots into the paint or behind the arc. It’s kind of cute to watch as he is often looking down before he pulls the ball up.

His assists are down 2 per game in 2022 even though his usage is only down from 28% to 26%. This may be the Brunson effect, his passes may not be resulting in assists.

Not gonna say much about RJ. He needs to get his touch back. Less minutes might help. He looks exhausted.

Brunson is fantastic on offense and not a lot of length on defense. We knew this. Kind of disappointed with his “clutch” shots end of game, but again, I think Rhibs is overplaying these guys and they look exhausted.

Is that a typo or a new nick name, cause if it is, I like it!

The one thing Coach might enjoy as much as he does coaching!

Uptown @ 12/2/2022 8:33 AM
Good job on the numbers breakdown....To add more context, lets look at the actual competition:

Vs. Teams over .500:

3 Wins & 11 Losses

Vs. Teams under .500:

7 Wins & 1 Loss.

A number or 2 may be off because I do not remember if the T wolves were under or over .500 when we played them. GS is @ .500 now but they may have been under when we played them. Ultimately, we are losing to teams over .500 and beating the teams under .500.

@ Hofstra....Would love to look at all the numbers you provided and break them down vs. 500 teams, etc. Too lazy to do it right now. If I have time, I will edit and add it later.

fishmike @ 12/2/2022 8:49 AM
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:

He’s been playing much better in 2022 and November. He kind of looks like he is tipping his his shots, looking for the box so he can shoot. Clearly under some form of instruction to move his shots into the paint or behind the arc. It’s kind of cute to watch as he is often looking down before he pulls the ball up.

His assists are down 2 per game in 2022 even though his usage is only down from 28% to 26%. This may be the Brunson effect, his passes may not be resulting in assists.

Not gonna say much about RJ. He needs to get his touch back. Less minutes might help. He looks exhausted.

Brunson is fantastic on offense and not a lot of length on defense. We knew this. Kind of disappointed with his “clutch” shots end of game, but again, I think Rhibs is overplaying these guys and they look exhausted.

Brunson is playing 32 minutes.... what's reasonable? 30? 28? 25? Brunson averaging half a minute more than he did last year.

Maybe we should get a coach that doesnt ask them to play so hard? Mike Miller and Fizdale are available. Just a thought

BigDaddyG @ 12/2/2022 9:42 AM
fishmike wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:

He’s been playing much better in 2022 and November. He kind of looks like he is tipping his his shots, looking for the box so he can shoot. Clearly under some form of instruction to move his shots into the paint or behind the arc. It’s kind of cute to watch as he is often looking down before he pulls the ball up.

His assists are down 2 per game in 2022 even though his usage is only down from 28% to 26%. This may be the Brunson effect, his passes may not be resulting in assists.

Not gonna say much about RJ. He needs to get his touch back. Less minutes might help. He looks exhausted.

Brunson is fantastic on offense and not a lot of length on defense. We knew this. Kind of disappointed with his “clutch” shots end of game, but again, I think Rhibs is overplaying these guys and they look exhausted.

Brunson is playing 32 minutes.... what's reasonable? 30? 28? 25? Brunson averaging half a minute more than he did last year.

Maybe we should get a coach that doesnt ask them to play so hard? Mike Miller and Fizdale are available. Just a thought

Why you going hard at Mike? He did a competent job and got a below average squad to play to it's below average potential. He essentially effed up the tank.

HofstraBBall @ 12/2/2022 10:08 AM
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:

He’s been playing much better in 2022 and November. He kind of looks like he is tipping his his shots, looking for the box so he can shoot. Clearly under some form of instruction to move his shots into the paint or behind the arc. It’s kind of cute to watch as he is often looking down before he pulls the ball up.

His assists are down 2 per game in 2022 even though his usage is only down from 28% to 26%. This may be the Brunson effect, his passes may not be resulting in assists.

Not gonna say much about RJ. He needs to get his touch back. Less minutes might help. He looks exhausted.

Brunson is fantastic on offense and not a lot of length on defense. We knew this. Kind of disappointed with his “clutch” shots end of game, but again, I think Rhibs is overplaying these guys and they look exhausted.

Still think he is taking too many three's. As mentioned on other post, scheme has him out there but feel he can drive to the high post where he is better.

Agree Thibs may be over playing guys at times. Although league average for starters is 32 to 33. But Only RJ is higher (34th in the league with 34)

martin @ 12/2/2022 10:21 AM
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:

He’s been playing much better in 2022 and November. He kind of looks like he is tipping his his shots, looking for the box so he can shoot. Clearly under some form of instruction to move his shots into the paint or behind the arc. It’s kind of cute to watch as he is often looking down before he pulls the ball up.

His assists are down 2 per game in 2022 even though his usage is only down from 28% to 26%. This may be the Brunson effect, his passes may not be resulting in assists.

Not gonna say much about RJ. He needs to get his touch back. Less minutes might help. He looks exhausted.

Brunson is fantastic on offense and not a lot of length on defense. We knew this. Kind of disappointed with his “clutch” shots end of game, but again, I think Rhibs is overplaying these guys and they look exhausted.

It's the whole team that has been under that instruction

EwingsGlass @ 12/2/2022 10:22 AM
franco12 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:

He’s been playing much better in 2022 and November. He kind of looks like he is tipping his his shots, looking for the box so he can shoot. Clearly under some form of instruction to move his shots into the paint or behind the arc. It’s kind of cute to watch as he is often looking down before he pulls the ball up.

His assists are down 2 per game in 2022 even though his usage is only down from 28% to 26%. This may be the Brunson effect, his passes may not be resulting in assists.

Not gonna say much about RJ. He needs to get his touch back. Less minutes might help. He looks exhausted.

Brunson is fantastic on offense and not a lot of length on defense. We knew this. Kind of disappointed with his “clutch” shots end of game, but again, I think Rhibs is overplaying these guys and they look exhausted.

Is that a typo or a new nick name, cause if it is, I like it!

Funny. That was unintentional.

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