Knicks · Finally, the Knicks Have Gone to the Young Players (page 1)

We have been screaming for the past 2 years that the Knicks need to just run with the young players. Yet, the FO kept bringing in vet players like Walker, Fournier, and Rose, while stifling McBride, Grimes, Sims, and Toppin. Thibbs and the FO now appear to have fully embraced the youth (except Reddish who I am confident is being held out because they intend to trade him as soon as they finalize the right deal (I doubt he is on the team in January)). Grimes and McBride are hungry and they bring a level of defense that none of the other starters were bringing, except maybe Mitch. 3 wins in a row. We have some games against solid teams coming up, so we will see if the Knicks can continue winning, but the defense, with Grimes and McBride added to the mix, should continue to be top-notch.

TheGame wrote:We have been screaming for the past 2 years that the Knicks need to just run with the young players. Yet, the FO kept bringing in vet players like Walker, Fournier, and Rose, while stifling McBride, Grimes, Sims, and Toppin. Thibbs and the FO now appear to have fully embraced the youth (except Reddish who I am confident is being held out because they intend to trade him as soon as they finalize the right deal (I doubt he is on the team in January)). Grimes and McBride are hungry and they bring a level of defense that none of the other starters were bringing, except maybe Mitch. 3 wins in a row. We have some games against solid teams coming up, so we will see if the Knicks can continue winning, but the defense, with Grimes and McBride added to the mix, should continue to be top-notch.

I don’t take it as black and white as you seem to - play either vets or young kids and do feel there was a necessary evolution that takes place with some guys and across but groups - but the results are same.

Finally

I hope the Knicks keep paring down the vets

martin wrote:I hope the Knicks keep paring down the vets

Yeah about time. I always felt Thibs was wrong coach for this team. But if he changes his ways and develops the young players properly which mean PT. Not some dumb ass strategy that plays favoritism for some and not others. The quick hooks have to go a more if a teaching and nurturing attitude has to be implemented. That’s what a coach is.

Is it even possible that Thibs has a clue as to how to coach and that perhaps the younguns have been brought along properly and have developed well under his tutelage? And now is the time they have been set up to succeed in? I know, that's crazy talk....

KnickDanger wrote:Is it even possible that Thibs has a clue as to how to coach and that perhaps the younguns have been brought along properly and have developed well under his tutelage? And now is the time they have been set up to succeed in? I know, that's crazy talk....

No, he has been stubborn and if not for injury and losing he never would have turned to the yoot.
But the reality is he listened to the fans. Not real fans at games, the fans online who have the benefit of hindsight and know better!

Nalod wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:Is it even possible that Thibs has a clue as to how to coach and that perhaps the younguns have been brought along properly and have developed well under his tutelage? And now is the time they have been set up to succeed in? I know, that's crazy talk....

No, he has been stubborn and if not for injury and losing he never would have turned to the yoot.
But the reality is he listened to the fans. Not real fans at games, the fans online who have the benefit of hindsight and know better!

The only fans who matter! In fact, I take offense to the idea that Thibs doesn't call me daily to thank me for keeping him as coach.

KnickDanger wrote:Is it even possible that Thibs has a clue as to how to coach and that perhaps the younguns have been brought along properly and have developed well under his tutelage? And now is the time they have been set up to succeed in? I know, that's crazy talk....

McBride and Quick had the same best on team advance stats last year with the little time they got together. The same time we was riding Burks as PG. I will give him credit for developing them but not for how long it took him to give them a real chance. You also set this situation up with a can't lose way. If the kids who fans have been asking to be given a chance for over a year now play bad you win and say they were not ready. If they play well then Thibs is a genius and it was the exact perfect time. I see what your doing.

Nalod wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:Is it even possible that Thibs has a clue as to how to coach and that perhaps the younguns have been brought along properly and have developed well under his tutelage? And now is the time they have been set up to succeed in? I know, that's crazy talk....

No, he has been stubborn and if not for injury and losing he never would have turned to the yoot.
But the reality is he listened to the fans. Not real fans at games, the fans online who have the benefit of hindsight and know better!

It's not hindsight for me. I been calling for this since the middle of last season. I have had plenty of disagreements with the fans who are Thibs friendly because they would defend him not trying the young players.

Clean wrote:

Nalod wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:Is it even possible that Thibs has a clue as to how to coach and that perhaps the younguns have been brought along properly and have developed well under his tutelage? And now is the time they have been set up to succeed in? I know, that's crazy talk....

No, he has been stubborn and if not for injury and losing he never would have turned to the yoot.
But the reality is he listened to the fans. Not real fans at games, the fans online who have the benefit of hindsight and know better!

It's not hindsight for me. I been calling for this since the middle of last season. I have had plenty of disagreements with the fans who are Thibs friendly because they would defend him not trying the young players.

My point is perhaps Thibs knew what he was doing. Your point is you know better than him. I like the results -- I'll go with Thibs.

Clean wrote:

Nalod wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:Is it even possible that Thibs has a clue as to how to coach and that perhaps the younguns have been brought along properly and have developed well under his tutelage? And now is the time they have been set up to succeed in? I know, that's crazy talk....

No, he has been stubborn and if not for injury and losing he never would have turned to the yoot.
But the reality is he listened to the fans. Not real fans at games, the fans online who have the benefit of hindsight and know better!

It's not hindsight for me. I been calling for this since the middle of last season. I have had plenty of disagreements with the fans who are Thibs friendly because they would defend him not trying the young players.

Actually their play justified the decisions to keep developing them.
Deuce just had a good game shooting and your congratulating yourself. But he has struggled to shoot? Your contention is "He needs time on the court".
Not wrong, but his is not the minors, its the show.
Your like "but it would have happened sooner!"
but it didn't. Not like they did not get chance to prove something. they did.
It not about whose right or wrong, but you just went there. Feels good, enjoy it. We all are, but you don't get the gold star.
its about wins and losses.

Clean wrote:

Nalod wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:Is it even possible that Thibs has a clue as to how to coach and that perhaps the younguns have been brought along properly and have developed well under his tutelage? And now is the time they have been set up to succeed in? I know, that's crazy talk....

No, he has been stubborn and if not for injury and losing he never would have turned to the yoot.
But the reality is he listened to the fans. Not real fans at games, the fans online who have the benefit of hindsight and know better!

It's not hindsight for me. I been calling for this since the middle of last season. I have had plenty of disagreements with the fans who are Thibs friendly because they would defend him not trying the young players.

I’ll give you a gold star clean since nolad refuse to.

You are right about thibs, regardless what feedback I get in these forums. I’ve had the same discussion with UK fans. It’s like running into a brick wall. Seems like only a few get it. The rest are still drinking the thibs cool aid.

But I’m with you.

I’m also at the point that thibs might be the best coaching option we have right now. He definitely has flaws (pointed this out when thibs started Burks over IQ). But at the same time thibs OLDSCHOOL development approach with the yoots can sometimes create diamonds (deuce) and other times you’re left scratching your head, searching for conspiracy theories on why certain yoots (cam) are not getting PT.

But the wins are piling up and now thibs fans (drinking coy coolaid) will be in denial about the yoot management and say shut up and enjoy the wins. So be ready.

Gold star clean. I’m with you on thibs stubbornness. It’s a discussion you can’t win in this forum.

I’m ready to see these Hot boyz tonight [IQ, Deuce, Grimes]

THE DEUCE IS LOOSE

LoL. People looking for anonymous kudos & gold stars = lots of insecurity IMHO. Show me all the posters who were clammoring for Burks to remain as PG last year. Many of us wanted to see more of Deuce but at the same time realized thare might be more to it than fan curiosity and advanced metrics based on 5 minutes per game or garbage time minutes.

Situations are mostly complex and nuanced no matter how much fans want to make them obvious & simple.

foosballnick wrote:LoL. People looking for anonymous kudos & gold stars = lots of insecurity IMHO. Show me all the posters who were clammoring for Burks to remain as PG last year. Many of us wanted to see more of Deuce IQ but at the same time realized thare might be more to it than fan curiosity and advanced metrics based on 5 minutes per game or garbage time minutes.

Situations are mostly complex and nuanced no matter how much fans want to make them obvious & simple.

Correction

IQ instead of a SF at point
Deuce as backup

Remember Rose and Kemba was out. Thibs went with Burks for several reasons. Politics and Defense

I didnt see anything wrong with IQ running the point. But Thibs has his defensive mentality which is why you see deuce now instead of rose (his God son). So thibs trust Burks defense over IQ and Deuce.

Truth be told Rose is the most established PG on the roster after JB. And he’s on the bench and out of rotation.

blkexec wrote:

Clean wrote:

Nalod wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:Is it even possible that Thibs has a clue as to how to coach and that perhaps the younguns have been brought along properly and have developed well under his tutelage? And now is the time they have been set up to succeed in? I know, that's crazy talk....

No, he has been stubborn and if not for injury and losing he never would have turned to the yoot.
But the reality is he listened to the fans. Not real fans at games, the fans online who have the benefit of hindsight and know better!

It's not hindsight for me. I been calling for this since the middle of last season. I have had plenty of disagreements with the fans who are Thibs friendly because they would defend him not trying the young players.

I’ll give you a gold star clean since nolad refuse to.

You are right about thibs, regardless what feedback I get in these forums. I’ve had the same discussion with UK fans. It’s like running into a brick wall. Seems like only a few get it. The rest are still drinking the thibs cool aid.

But I’m with you.

I’m also at the point that thibs might be the best coaching option we have right now. He definitely has flaws (pointed this out when thibs started Burks over IQ). But at the same time thibs OLDSCHOOL development approach with the yoots can sometimes create diamonds (deuce) and other times you’re left scratching your head, searching for conspiracy theories on why certain yoots (cam) are not getting PT.

But the wins are piling up and now thibs fans (drinking coy coolaid) will be in denial about the yoot management and say shut up and enjoy the wins. So be ready.

Gold star clean. I’m with you on thibs stubbornness. It’s a discussion you can’t win in this forum.

I’m ready to see these Hot boyz tonight [IQ, Deuce, Grimes]

THE DEUCE IS LOOSE

Glad you found each other. Get a room.
Wanting wins (Koolaid COY) vs. losses (self proclaimed Gold star homies) so you can show the world Thibs is not good?
Seems like Thibs not succeeding is very important to you guys. more so then winning with HIS method.

blkexec wrote:

foosballnick wrote:LoL. People looking for anonymous kudos & gold stars = lots of insecurity IMHO. Show me all the posters who were clammoring for Burks to remain as PG last year. Many of us wanted to see more of Deuce IQ but at the same time realized thare might be more to it than fan curiosity and advanced metrics based on 5 minutes per game or garbage time minutes.

Situations are mostly complex and nuanced no matter how much fans want to make them obvious & simple.

Correction

IQ instead of a SF at point
Deuce as backup

Remember Rose and Kemba was out. Thibs went with Burks for several reasons. Politics and Defense

I didnt see anything wrong with IQ running the point. But Thibs has his defensive mentality which is why you see deuce now instead of rose (his God son). So thibs trust Burks defense over IQ and Deuce.

Truth be told Rose is the most established PG on the roster after JB. And he’s on the bench and out of rotation.

You either didn’t watch tha games closely enough or forgot.

IQ struggled for the first half and more of the season off of the bench and barely knew what to do with the ball in his hands. His reads off of plays weren’t good, think of a different version of RJ and what he is not seeing when he comes off of a PnR.

IQ picked up his play in the later third of season. You can still see shades of IQ faltering this year some but his breakdown ability is much better. IQ defensive chops makes up for anything he can’t do as a floor general but he has made tremendous strides.

It’s why I keep wondering if you actually watch full games cause you miss too much.

Also, truth be told, Rose has not played up to the level he has previously and his defense is really awful. He is even making weird mistakes we’ve not seen in the past, TOs, missed shots he normally makes, throwing the ball behind guys, etc.

foosballnick wrote:LoL. People looking for anonymous kudos & gold stars = lots of insecurity IMHO. Show me all the posters who were clammoring for Burks to remain as PG last year. Many of us wanted to see more of Deuce but at the same time realized thare might be more to it than fan curiosity and advanced metrics based on 5 minutes per game or garbage time minutes.

Situations are mostly complex and nuanced no matter how much fans want to make them obvious & simple.

100%

Your last sentence is SPOT ON

Nalod wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Clean wrote:

Nalod wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:Is it even possible that Thibs has a clue as to how to coach and that perhaps the younguns have been brought along properly and have developed well under his tutelage? And now is the time they have been set up to succeed in? I know, that's crazy talk....

No, he has been stubborn and if not for injury and losing he never would have turned to the yoot.
But the reality is he listened to the fans. Not real fans at games, the fans online who have the benefit of hindsight and know better!

It's not hindsight for me. I been calling for this since the middle of last season. I have had plenty of disagreements with the fans who are Thibs friendly because they would defend him not trying the young players.

I’ll give you a gold star clean since nolad refuse to.

You are right about thibs, regardless what feedback I get in these forums. I’ve had the same discussion with UK fans. It’s like running into a brick wall. Seems like only a few get it. The rest are still drinking the thibs cool aid.

But I’m with you.

I’m also at the point that thibs might be the best coaching option we have right now. He definitely has flaws (pointed this out when thibs started Burks over IQ). But at the same time thibs OLDSCHOOL development approach with the yoots can sometimes create diamonds (deuce) and other times you’re left scratching your head, searching for conspiracy theories on why certain yoots (cam) are not getting PT.

But the wins are piling up and now thibs fans (drinking coy coolaid) will be in denial about the yoot management and say shut up and enjoy the wins. So be ready.

Gold star clean. I’m with you on thibs stubbornness. It’s a discussion you can’t win in this forum.

I’m ready to see these Hot boyz tonight [IQ, Deuce, Grimes]

THE DEUCE IS LOOSE

Glad you found each other. Get a room.
Wanting wins (Koolaid COY) vs. losses (self proclaimed Gold star homies) so you can show the world Thibs is not good?
Seems like Thibs not succeeding is very important to you guys. more so then winning with HIS method.

I had a snarky response to the Kool=Ade bit but bolded says it much better.

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

foosballnick wrote:LoL. People looking for anonymous kudos & gold stars = lots of insecurity IMHO. Show me all the posters who were clammoring for Burks to remain as PG last year. Many of us wanted to see more of Deuce IQ but at the same time realized thare might be more to it than fan curiosity and advanced metrics based on 5 minutes per game or garbage time minutes.

Situations are mostly complex and nuanced no matter how much fans want to make them obvious & simple.

Correction

IQ instead of a SF at point
Deuce as backup

Remember Rose and Kemba was out. Thibs went with Burks for several reasons. Politics and Defense

I didnt see anything wrong with IQ running the point. But Thibs has his defensive mentality which is why you see deuce now instead of rose (his God son). So thibs trust Burks defense over IQ and Deuce.

Truth be told Rose is the most established PG on the roster after JB. And he’s on the bench and out of rotation.

You either didn’t watch tha games closely enough or forgot.

IQ struggled for the first half and more of the season off of the bench and barely knew what to do with the ball in his hands. His reads off of plays weren’t good, think of a different version of RJ and what he is not seeing when he comes off of a PnR.

IQ picked up his play in the later third of season. You can still see shades of IQ faltering this year some but his breakdown ability is much better. IQ defensive chops makes up for anything he can’t do as a floor general but he has made tremendous strides.

It’s why I keep wondering if you actually watch full games cause you miss too much.

Also, truth be told, Rose has not played up to the level he has previously and his defense is really awful. He is even making weird mistakes we’ve not seen in the past, TOs, missed shots he normally makes, throwing the ball behind guys, etc.

I watch all the games Martin. And I agree with your response. Not sure what else I need to say. Yes you are correct. Still doesn’t change my mind play Burks at PG over IQ. I disagree and you agree. Why not leave it at that. I don’t have to agree with everything. Ok IQ wasn’t ready. Neither was Burks.

blkexec wrote:

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

foosballnick wrote:LoL. People looking for anonymous kudos & gold stars = lots of insecurity IMHO. Show me all the posters who were clammoring for Burks to remain as PG last year. Many of us wanted to see more of Deuce IQ but at the same time realized thare might be more to it than fan curiosity and advanced metrics based on 5 minutes per game or garbage time minutes.

Situations are mostly complex and nuanced no matter how much fans want to make them obvious & simple.

Correction

IQ instead of a SF at point
Deuce as backup

Remember Rose and Kemba was out. Thibs went with Burks for several reasons. Politics and Defense

I didnt see anything wrong with IQ running the point. But Thibs has his defensive mentality which is why you see deuce now instead of rose (his God son). So thibs trust Burks defense over IQ and Deuce.

Truth be told Rose is the most established PG on the roster after JB. And he’s on the bench and out of rotation.

You either didn’t watch tha games closely enough or forgot.

IQ struggled for the first half and more of the season off of the bench and barely knew what to do with the ball in his hands. His reads off of plays weren’t good, think of a different version of RJ and what he is not seeing when he comes off of a PnR.

IQ picked up his play in the later third of season. You can still see shades of IQ faltering this year some but his breakdown ability is much better. IQ defensive chops makes up for anything he can’t do as a floor general but he has made tremendous strides.

It’s why I keep wondering if you actually watch full games cause you miss too much.

Also, truth be told, Rose has not played up to the level he has previously and his defense is really awful. He is even making weird mistakes we’ve not seen in the past, TOs, missed shots he normally makes, throwing the ball behind guys, etc.

I watch all the games Martin. And I agree with your response. Not sure what else I need to say. Yes you are correct. Still doesn’t change my mind play Burks at PG over IQ. I disagree and you agree. Why not leave it at that. I don’t have to agree with everything. Ok IQ wasn’t ready. Neither was Burks.

You need to say less quite frankly or at least think about what you are saying.

You have stated that you had a tryout for an NBA team as a guard and how does one with that much basketball background knowingly say stuff like “I didnt see anything wrong with IQ running the point” and then backtrack it faster than Thibs calls for a Randle sub after Obi makes 1 mistake on the court?

All you are establishing is that you will say anything to try make your point seemingly valid. Literally anything, like the opposite of reality of which you know is happening. You have firmly established that you will go there.

I don’t have to disagree with a lot of what you are posting, you voluntarily post wrong stuff and I just point it out.

I’ll repeat what others are thinking and saying: Most everyone knows that Burks ain’t a good PG, no one is defending or wanting Burks as a starting PG in the way you and Clean think they are in some weird black and white world where only right and wrong exist (and I’m glad we are now handing out gold stars now, that’s a keeper for me) and most are savvy enough to understand that there may be other good reason or context why waiting on IQ to get his development off bench was also an OK step to take.

Huge difference between wanting Burks as a PG or “defending” that stance versus thinking IQ and team is or isn’t ready for IQ starting.

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

foosballnick wrote:LoL. People looking for anonymous kudos & gold stars = lots of insecurity IMHO. Show me all the posters who were clammoring for Burks to remain as PG last year. Many of us wanted to see more of Deuce IQ but at the same time realized thare might be more to it than fan curiosity and advanced metrics based on 5 minutes per game or garbage time minutes.

Situations are mostly complex and nuanced no matter how much fans want to make them obvious & simple.

Correction

IQ instead of a SF at point
Deuce as backup

Remember Rose and Kemba was out. Thibs went with Burks for several reasons. Politics and Defense

I didnt see anything wrong with IQ running the point. But Thibs has his defensive mentality which is why you see deuce now instead of rose (his God son). So thibs trust Burks defense over IQ and Deuce.

Truth be told Rose is the most established PG on the roster after JB. And he’s on the bench and out of rotation.

You either didn’t watch tha games closely enough or forgot.

IQ struggled for the first half and more of the season off of the bench and barely knew what to do with the ball in his hands. His reads off of plays weren’t good, think of a different version of RJ and what he is not seeing when he comes off of a PnR.

IQ picked up his play in the later third of season. You can still see shades of IQ faltering this year some but his breakdown ability is much better. IQ defensive chops makes up for anything he can’t do as a floor general but he has made tremendous strides.

It’s why I keep wondering if you actually watch full games cause you miss too much.

Also, truth be told, Rose has not played up to the level he has previously and his defense is really awful. He is even making weird mistakes we’ve not seen in the past, TOs, missed shots he normally makes, throwing the ball behind guys, etc.

I watch all the games Martin. And I agree with your response. Not sure what else I need to say. Yes you are correct. Still doesn’t change my mind play Burks at PG over IQ. I disagree and you agree. Why not leave it at that. I don’t have to agree with everything. Ok IQ wasn’t ready. Neither was Burks.

You need to say less quite frankly or at least think about what you are saying.

You have stated that you had a tryout for an NBA team as a guard and how does one with that much basketball background knowingly say stuff like “I didnt see anything wrong with IQ running the point” and then backtrack it faster than Thibs calls for a Randle sub after Obi makes 1 mistake on the court?

All you are establishing is that you will say anything to try make your point seemingly valid. Literally anything, like the opposite of reality of which you know is happening. You have firmly established that you will go there.

I don’t have to disagree with a lot of what you are posting, you voluntarily post wrong stuff and I just point it out.

I’ll repeat what others are thinking and saying: Most everyone knows that Burks ain’t a good PG, no one is defending or wanting Burks as a starting PG in the way you and Clean think they are in some weird black and white world where only right and wrong exist (and I’m glad we are now handing out gold stars now, that’s a keeper for me) and most are savvy enough to understand that there may be other good reason or context why waiting on IQ to get his development off bench was also an OK step to take.

Huge difference between wanting Burks as a PG or “defending” that stance versus thinking IQ and team is or isn’t ready for IQ starting.

There is so much wrong with just the first 4 lines. 😂
Nobody tried out for an nba team. Stop making up stuff.

Starting IQ wasn’t even that crazy of an idea. Plenty of fans was looking for a PG to replace a PG. Not a SF. 🤣 How can I back track when I’ve been consistent on that from the time Burks started and especially 10 games in when it was obviously the wrong move.

Waiting for IQ to finish developing, is fine. Playing a PF instead of one of the 2 PGs on your bench is where I disagree. That’s old man thinking. It’s clearly proven and well documented that players are adapting to the nba much quicker than they did in the past, especially players from Kentucky programs that run nba sets. So yes if all your PGs are not available and SF Burks looks like trash after 10 games, yes I put in IQ. Not sure why your wasting time on this. Thibs has his reasons. And IQ is clearly playing well and adapting to the nba very well. Please tell me why does it matter if I disagree with the ole mighty Thibs? It’s my opinion and guess what? Both IQ and Deuce are playing. At this point does it matter that u think I’m wrong? Nope.

Again, never tried out for an nba team. But thanks for the compliment. Too many side bar discussions in a 1 topic thread. So it’s easy to get details mixed up in a chat forum vs a discussion at a bar.

I believe the yoots were ready sooner. You believe they was not ready until thibs put them in. I respect your point and respect mine. Unless you rather continue to convince me otherwise, be my guess. Puff puff pass

Meanwhile Thibs is the best we can do right now. This FO is the best we can do right now. The main thing this organization needs is consistency. And if thibs 9 man rotation is the direction we are going fine. At least we have a plan. Now let’s stick to that plan and keep developing the yoots until the right star is drafted and traded.