Knicks · I keep wanting to think we're not that good (page 1)

That all the other teams we've beat, have been missing guys.

That we're getting luck now that will eventually fade.

But, while that is all true, this team has, dare I jinx it, turned the corner.

It's like our team last year, that essentially played well when we were out of it and Randle was hurt, played really nice basketball with JR and Obi putting up great numbers. And now you add JB who has finally started to gel with 2020 All Star+ Randle and everyone else.

I knew we were better than we were playing when we reached Peak Fire Thibs, but I never would have imagined we could be this good.

Congrats to the team & the coach who has gotten them here.

PG: JB vs Elfrid - JB's a much better shooter/offensive player
SG: RJ vs RJ - modern RJ has a ways to go, but he's got more wrinkles to his game than 2nd year version. (though 2nd year RJ was a killer 3pt shooter)
SF: Grimes vs Bullock - Grimes has more sizzle to his offensive game; arguably better on D (and Bullock was no slouch!)
PF: Randle vs Randle - Dare I say it, 2022 Randle may be playing better than All NBA team Randle.
C: Robinson vs Robinson - Now with a big contract, he's still producing.

Bench:
Quickley vs Quickley - modern Quickley is a better PG, though his shooting is more erratic now than as a rookie
Hartenstein vs Noel - This game vs GSW, Hartenstein showed how much of a playmaker he is on offense. He's a solid 2-way
backup center. Noel was an exceptional player for us that year. Made us think Robinson was expendable. He too offers more variety than Mitch - but he had stone hands and isn't much of a playmaker.
Obi vs Obi - modern Obi is much, much better.
Sims vs Taj - Sims brings youthful energy and raw athleticism. Taj was a locker room leader, played solid mins, but didn't scare anyone.
McBride vs Rose - McBride is a significantly better defender than Rose; Rose is a far superior offensive player.

franco12 wrote:That we beat a GS state team that has been in a season long funk, missing Curry.

That all the other teams we've beat, have been missing guys.

That we're getting luck now that will eventually fade.

But, while that is all true, this team has, dare I jinx it, turned the corner.

It's like our team last year, that essentially played well when we were out of it and Randle was hurt, played really nice basketball with JR and Obi putting up great numbers. And now you add JB who has finally started to gel with 2020 All Star+ Randle and everyone else.

I knew we were better than we were playing when we reached Peak Fire Thibs, but I never would have imagined we could be this good.

Congrats to the team & the coach who has gotten them here.

I think the schedule has a lot to do with it where the first 18 games were a real grinder. Knicks didn't even start their streak unit 5 games after the road trip ended.

I think the quality of play picked up vs. Utah when the Knicks went to a 9 man rotation, but you could also say it started when Grimes entered the starting lineup vs. Phoenix. It took sometime for the team to click, but now they are firing on all cylinders.

Randle had a great quote where he said he doesn't even think about the streak, he just plays the game in front of him. As much as we might be in a weird place as fans where the Knicks are winning close games and winning games from end to end, we just need to enjoy it.

technomaster wrote:Consider our current rotation vs our 4th seed team 2 years ago. Biggest difference is 1) JB 2) All of our returning young players have improved - most notably, Quickley plays a legit backup PG role now 3) Grimes may already be better than Bullock.

PG: JB vs Elfrid - JB's a much better shooter/offensive player
SG: RJ vs RJ - modern RJ has a ways to go, but he's got more wrinkles to his game than 2nd year version. (though 2nd year RJ was a killer 3pt shooter)
SF: Grimes vs Bullock - Grimes has more sizzle to his offensive game; arguably better on D (and Bullock was no slouch!)
PF: Randle vs Randle - Dare I say it, 2022 Randle may be playing better than All NBA team Randle.
C: Robinson vs Robinson - Now with a big contract, he's still producing.

Bench:
Quickley vs Quickley - modern Quickley is a better PG, though his shooting is more erratic now than as a rookie
Hartenstein vs Noel - This game vs GSW, Hartenstein showed how much of a playmaker he is on offense. He's a solid 2-way
backup center. Noel was an exceptional player for us that year. Made us think Robinson was expendable. He too offers more variety than Mitch - but he had stone hands and isn't much of a playmaker.
Obi vs Obi - modern Obi is much, much better.
Sims vs Taj - Sims brings youthful energy and raw athleticism. Taj was a locker room leader, played solid mins, but didn't scare anyone.
McBride vs Rose - McBride is a significantly better defender than Rose; Rose is a far superior offensive player.

Rose was arguably the MVP of the team back then

franco12 wrote:That we beat a GS state team that has been in a season long funk, missing Curry.

That all the other teams we've beat, have been missing guys.

That we're getting luck now that will eventually fade.

But, while that is all true, this team has, dare I jinx it, turned the corner.

It's like our team last year, that essentially played well when we were out of it and Randle was hurt, played really nice basketball with JR and Obi putting up great numbers. And now you add JB who has finally started to gel with 2020 All Star+ Randle and everyone else.

I knew we were better than we were playing when we reached Peak Fire Thibs, but I never would have imagined we could be this good.

Congrats to the team & the coach who has gotten them here.

They did?

Really?

The WHOLE NBA got better so us fixing our two biggest holes would not translate to more wins. Some of the best logic I've heard on this board

technomaster wrote:Consider our current rotation vs our 4th seed team 2 years ago. Biggest difference is 1) JB 2) All of our returning young players have improved - most notably, Quickley plays a legit backup PG role now 3) Grimes may already be MUCH better than Bullock.

FIXED

Rookie wrote:When the analysts break down how our defense is tied together and tied together with a string I get all warm and fuzzy inside.

That plus the early nippers of the spiked egg nogg all working out well for the warms and fuzzies

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1605568294240428034?s=20&t=-E112BIdQI7NA2-6cVOONA

Click here to view the Tweet

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/Dolan_J_Trump/status/1605558352930492417?s=20&t=-E112BIdQI7NA2-6cVOONA

Click here to view the Tweet

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/JCMacriNBA/status/1605556697287626752?s=20&t=-E112BIdQI7NA2-6cVOONA

Click here to view the Tweet

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/JCMacriNBA/status/1605556701695836160?s=20&t=-E112BIdQI7NA2-6cVOONA

Click here to view the Tweet

https://twitter.com/alanhahn/status/1605...

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:That we beat a GS state team that has been in a season long funk, missing Curry.

That all the other teams we've beat, have been missing guys.

That we're getting luck now that will eventually fade.

But, while that is all true, this team has, dare I jinx it, turned the corner.

It's like our team last year, that essentially played well when we were out of it and Randle was hurt, played really nice basketball with JR and Obi putting up great numbers. And now you add JB who has finally started to gel with 2020 All Star+ Randle and everyone else.

I knew we were better than we were playing when we reached Peak Fire Thibs, but I never would have imagined we could be this good.

Congrats to the team & the coach who has gotten them here.

there never was a peek fire Thibs... just some fans that were not patient and didnt understand the process. Its ok. Enjoy. Despite fan emotion the guy was never ever in danger

Thibs saw the writing on the wall. That lead to the change in style and lineup. Thibs realized he was his worst enemy. Where was he last year doing stupid lineups all year long. Playing Butks at PG how ridiculous was that. When you had Quickly to develop and McBride on the team. I give him props for realizing and changing, better late than never.

SergioNYK wrote:Personally I'm taking it game by game and enjoying the ride.

Seasoned Knicks fan right there.

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:That we beat a GS state team that has been in a season long funk, missing Curry.

That all the other teams we've beat, have been missing guys.

That we're getting luck now that will eventually fade.

But, while that is all true, this team has, dare I jinx it, turned the corner.

It's like our team last year, that essentially played well when we were out of it and Randle was hurt, played really nice basketball with JR and Obi putting up great numbers. And now you add JB who has finally started to gel with 2020 All Star+ Randle and everyone else.

I knew we were better than we were playing when we reached Peak Fire Thibs, but I never would have imagined we could be this good.

Congrats to the team & the coach who has gotten them here.

there never was a peek fire Thibs... just some fans that were not patient and didnt understand the process. Its ok. Enjoy. Despite fan emotion the guy was never ever in danger

Thibs saw the writing on the wall. That lead to the change in style and lineup. Thibs realized he was his worst enemy. Where was he last year doing stupid lineups all year long. Playing Butks at PG how ridiculous was that. When you had Quickly to develop and McBride on the team. I give him props for realizing and changing, better late than never.

The winning streaks are great of course. How the team overcomes adversity in the months ahead, has more of my attention. Im enjoying the streak, but not so much that I forget about the competition. The East isnt a joke anymore.

technomaster wrote:Consider our current rotation vs our 4th seed team 2 years ago. Biggest difference is 1) JB 2) All of our returning young players have improved - most notably, Quickley plays a legit backup PG role now 3) Grimes may already be better than Bullock.

PG: JB vs Elfrid - JB's a much better shooter/offensive player
SG: RJ vs RJ - modern RJ has a ways to go, but he's got more wrinkles to his game than 2nd year version. (though 2nd year RJ was a killer 3pt shooter)
SF: Grimes vs Bullock - Grimes has more sizzle to his offensive game; arguably better on D (and Bullock was no slouch!)
PF: Randle vs Randle - Dare I say it, 2022 Randle may be playing better than All NBA team Randle.
C: Robinson vs Robinson - Now with a big contract, he's still producing.

Bench:
Quickley vs Quickley - modern Quickley is a better PG, though his shooting is more erratic now than as a rookie
Hartenstein vs Noel - This game vs GSW, Hartenstein showed how much of a playmaker he is on offense. He's a solid 2-way
backup center. Noel was an exceptional player for us that year. Made us think Robinson was expendable. He too offers more variety than Mitch - but he had stone hands and isn't much of a playmaker.
Obi vs Obi - modern Obi is much, much better.
Sims vs Taj - Sims brings youthful energy and raw athleticism. Taj was a locker room leader, played solid mins, but didn't scare anyone.
McBride vs Rose - McBride is a significantly better defender than Rose; Rose is a far superior offensive player.

Good breakdown.

Think we gel better and have much more depth. Players also have a built up chemistry from playing together for so long.

GustavBahler wrote:Times like these, with the Knicks on a win streak. Its easy to believe that the team is going to keep playing at this level. Not even at the halfway mark of the season. There will be more win streaks ahead, and some losing streaks as well.

The winning streaks are great of course. How the team overcomes adversity in the months ahead, has more of my attention. Im enjoying the streak, but not so much that I forget about the competition. The East isnt a joke anymore.

A bunch of people saw the biggest needs addressed (PG/C) this offseason and pegged this for a 10 game improvement. Other's said "well the rest of the league got better also"

Knicks are good, well coached and have an identity that fits their roster. Most of all they are young, hungry and have a ton to prove. With a younger than 24 year old rotation this is what I have been dreaming of. I'm just glad our antiquated doesnt play the youth head coach finally listened to you all. Good work

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:That we beat a GS state team that has been in a season long funk, missing Curry.

That all the other teams we've beat, have been missing guys.

That we're getting luck now that will eventually fade.

But, while that is all true, this team has, dare I jinx it, turned the corner.

It's like our team last year, that essentially played well when we were out of it and Randle was hurt, played really nice basketball with JR and Obi putting up great numbers. And now you add JB who has finally started to gel with 2020 All Star+ Randle and everyone else.

I knew we were better than we were playing when we reached Peak Fire Thibs, but I never would have imagined we could be this good.

Congrats to the team & the coach who has gotten them here.

there never was a peek fire Thibs... just some fans that were not patient and didnt understand the process. Its ok. Enjoy. Despite fan emotion the guy was never ever in danger

Thibs saw the writing on the wall. That lead to the change in style and lineup. Thibs realized he was his worst enemy. Where was he last year doing stupid lineups all year long. Playing Butks at PG how ridiculous was that. When you had Quickly to develop and McBride on the team. I give him props for realizing and changing, better late than never.

Fish, you the man and I respect and agree with a lot of your posts, just an FYI. Unfortunately you know I have to disagree here.

First yes, you are correct. There was (still is) energy from certain fans trying to blame Thibs and pushing Thibs out the door. lol

But I listen and join several knicks podcasts, forums, etc.. and this "Peak Fire Thibs" thing was real according to several (ok maybe 1 or 2 like Ian Begley) well respected knick beat writers (I know can't listen to these guys, they similar to fans crying for a trade after every loss). Now of course, there's nothing concrete to show proof that Thibs was against the wall, so that devalues this entire discussion, that rest of pure speculation.

But when it was clear to me that Thibs was losing the team (or certain players), I started to search and read knicks media articles. And after the lineup change, a lot of media folks came out and said Thibs was on his last leg. Whether thats true or not (probably just to increase views for their articles), it definitely aligned with Thibs roster or rotation changes, which led to our current 8 game (going on 9) winning streak.

Now some would say, based on Thibs and Leon off court relation, there's no way Thigs was close to a Peak, and I can agree on that point. Leon had several other moves before he would fire Thibs. Thibs (to me and I could be very wrong) was making some questionable rotation moves (remove Kemba, then bring him back, then remove him permanently), which is why I thought he was doing things based on what the FO would like to see. If the FO invested millions of dollars, they at least want to see what that investment looks like (Obi, Cam, EF, Kemba, etc....) Thats what last season felt like.

Just my speculation since I'm not behind closed doors. But feels like Thibs deep rotation (for example) was for the FO to see what they paid for. When the team was going in the wrong direction, Thibs and the FO was like, ok Thibs, if you had it your way (pure speculation), regardless of draft pick position (Obi) or free agent contracts (Kemba / EF), or trades (Cam) what would you do to turn this ship around with the roster we have. I'm almost positive Deuce defense was a wide open surprise in practice and I bet they knew Deuce would play, just not sure when. I understand the Burks move (eventhough I disagree), but defensively Burks was Thibs type of player that he can trust. RJ or Randle were point forwards, so a natural PG wasn't needed (on paper). So I get it. But that move wasn't working, and we saw that early.

Fast forward to now, this looks and feels like a Thibs team. And it looks like the FO waved the white flag on their free agent moves and trades (Knox + 1st for Cam) and now trying to fix their mistakes, by looking to trade Cam, Rose, EF, etc...).

Warning, I'm really bored at work and really don't want to be here (so excuse my rambling). But I remember saying this team couldn't beat a college team right now. They would lose in a shadow boxing match. Regardless who we had on the team, we still looked like trash.

What a difference a Dallas lose can make. We should lose to Dallas more often, if thats what it takes.