Knicks · I keep wanting to think we're not that good (page 2)

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:That we beat a GS state team that has been in a season long funk, missing Curry.

That all the other teams we've beat, have been missing guys.

That we're getting luck now that will eventually fade.

But, while that is all true, this team has, dare I jinx it, turned the corner.

It's like our team last year, that essentially played well when we were out of it and Randle was hurt, played really nice basketball with JR and Obi putting up great numbers. And now you add JB who has finally started to gel with 2020 All Star+ Randle and everyone else.

I knew we were better than we were playing when we reached Peak Fire Thibs, but I never would have imagined we could be this good.

Congrats to the team & the coach who has gotten them here.

there never was a peek fire Thibs... just some fans that were not patient and didnt understand the process. Its ok. Enjoy. Despite fan emotion the guy was never ever in danger

Thibs saw the writing on the wall. That lead to the change in style and lineup. Thibs realized he was his worst enemy. Where was he last year doing stupid lineups all year long. Playing Butks at PG how ridiculous was that. When you had Quickly to develop and McBride on the team. I give him props for realizing and changing, better late than never.

Fish, you the man and I respect and agree with a lot of your posts, just an FYI. Unfortunately you know I have to disagree here.

First yes, you are correct. There was (still is) energy from certain fans trying to blame Thibs and pushing Thibs out the door. lol

But I listen and join several knicks podcasts, forums, etc.. and this "Peak Fire Thibs" thing was real according to several (ok maybe 1 or 2 like Ian Begley) well respected knick beat writers (I know can't listen to these guys, they similar to fans crying for a trade after every loss). Now of course, there's nothing concrete to show proof that Thibs was against the wall, so that devalues this entire discussion, that rest of pure speculation.

But when it was clear to me that Thibs was losing the team (or certain players), I started to search and read knicks media articles. And after the lineup change, a lot of media folks came out and said Thibs was on his last leg. Whether thats true or not (probably just to increase views for their articles), it definitely aligned with Thibs roster or rotation changes, which led to our current 8 game (going on 9) winning streak.

Now some would say, based on Thibs and Leon off court relation, there's no way Thigs was close to a Peak, and I can agree on that point. Leon had several other moves before he would fire Thibs. Thibs (to me and I could be very wrong) was making some questionable rotation moves (remove Kemba, then bring him back, then remove him permanently), which is why I thought he was doing things based on what the FO would like to see. If the FO invested millions of dollars, they at least want to see what that investment looks like (Obi, Cam, EF, Kemba, etc....) Thats what last season felt like.

Just my speculation since I'm not behind closed doors. But feels like Thibs deep rotation (for example) was for the FO to see what they paid for. When the team was going in the wrong direction, Thibs and the FO was like, ok Thibs, if you had it your way (pure speculation), regardless of draft pick position (Obi) or free agent contracts (Kemba / EF), or trades (Cam) what would you do to turn this ship around with the roster we have. I'm almost positive Deuce defense was a wide open surprise in practice and I bet they knew Deuce would play, just not sure when. I understand the Burks move (eventhough I disagree), but defensively Burks was Thibs type of player that he can trust. RJ or Randle were point forwards, so a natural PG wasn't needed (on paper). So I get it. But that move wasn't working, and we saw that early.

Fast forward to now, this looks and feels like a Thibs team. And it looks like the FO waved the white flag on their free agent moves and trades (Knox + 1st for Cam) and now trying to fix their mistakes, by looking to trade Cam, Rose, EF, etc...).

Warning, I'm really bored at work and really don't want to be here (so excuse my rambling). But I remember saying this team couldn't beat a college team right now. They would lose in a shadow boxing match. Regardless who we had on the team, we still looked like trash.

What a difference a Dallas lose can make. We should lose to Dallas more often, if thats what it takes.

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Times like these, with the Knicks on a win streak. Its easy to believe that the team is going to keep playing at this level. Not even at the halfway mark of the season. There will be more win streaks ahead, and some losing streaks as well.

The winning streaks are great of course. How the team overcomes adversity in the months ahead, has more of my attention. Im enjoying the streak, but not so much that I forget about the competition. The East isnt a joke anymore.

we still lack high end talent but we have depth and great coaching. If you are patient those will yield something and they are.

A bunch of people saw the biggest needs addressed (PG/C) this offseason and pegged this for a 10 game improvement. Other's said "well the rest of the league got better also"

Knicks are good, well coached and have an identity that fits their roster. Most of all they are young, hungry and have a ton to prove. With a younger than 24 year old rotation this is what I have been dreaming of. I'm just glad our antiquated doesnt play the youth head coach finally listened to you all. Good work

Wasnt in the "Thibs doesnt play the young guys" camp. Its been more about Thibs playing some guys more than anyone else in the league. Both in their 20s. Also about where some young guys are being slotted.

I know its just one game, but IQ showed what he can do when he doesnt have to run the offense as well. Been saying it since his rookie season. Hope Quickley can continue to get time playing off the ball. Nice to see him on the court more with Brunson.

As far as coaching, something I wrote before the game, and was echoed in the telecast was an attention to detail during this streak, which wasnt present earlier in the season. From the coach to the players. Pointing that out in real time doesnt show a lack of patience. It shows that we're paying attention.

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Times like these, with the Knicks on a win streak. Its easy to believe that the team is going to keep playing at this level. Not even at the halfway mark of the season. There will be more win streaks ahead, and some losing streaks as well.

The winning streaks are great of course. How the team overcomes adversity in the months ahead, has more of my attention. Im enjoying the streak, but not so much that I forget about the competition. The East isnt a joke anymore.

we still lack high end talent but we have depth and great coaching. If you are patient those will yield something and they are.

A bunch of people saw the biggest needs addressed (PG/C) this offseason and pegged this for a 10 game improvement. Other's said "well the rest of the league got better also"

Knicks are good, well coached and have an identity that fits their roster. Most of all they are young, hungry and have a ton to prove. With a younger than 24 year old rotation this is what I have been dreaming of. I'm just glad our antiquated doesnt play the youth head coach finally listened to you all. Good work

Wasnt in the "Thibs doesnt play the young guys" camp. Its been more about Thibs playing some guys more than anyone else in the league. Both in their 20s. Also about where some young guys are being slotted.

I know its just one game, but IQ showed what he can do when he doesnt have to run the offense as well. Been saying it since his rookie season. Hope Quickley can continue to get time playing off the ball. Nice to see him on the court more with Brunson.

As far as coaching, something I wrote before the game, and was echoed in the telecast was an attention to detail during this streak, which wasnt present earlier in the season. From the coach to the players. Pointing that out in real time doesnt show a lack of patience. It shows that we're paying attention.

sure... but there's a sentiment here that Thibs and the coaches didnt pay attention to these details, now they are and its translating into winning. I find that laughable.

This has been pretty simple and straightforward. The FO extended and in the immediate future committed to Brunson/RJ/Randle/Mitch as their core and that's not bad. I dont see a clear all star there but the are 4 offer some pretty good things. So its a case of maximizing the rotations and chemistry there.

Coaching staff always had Grimes in mind. They started him as soon as he was available despite Cam playing well and Grimes having no preseason.

It took 20ish games. The big coaching adjustment was subbing McBride for Rose/Fournier, but its really been about being patient with that starting 4 and Grimes being the right guy for them.

On the same note stuff like "Randle can only take us so" show's how fans can be totally oblivious to what's happening and being built here.

it is so nuts that we are doing what we are doing with only 2 people shooting at a reasonable rate from 3

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Times like these, with the Knicks on a win streak. Its easy to believe that the team is going to keep playing at this level. Not even at the halfway mark of the season. There will be more win streaks ahead, and some losing streaks as well.

The winning streaks are great of course. How the team overcomes adversity in the months ahead, has more of my attention. Im enjoying the streak, but not so much that I forget about the competition. The East isnt a joke anymore.

we still lack high end talent but we have depth and great coaching. If you are patient those will yield something and they are.

A bunch of people saw the biggest needs addressed (PG/C) this offseason and pegged this for a 10 game improvement. Other's said "well the rest of the league got better also"

Knicks are good, well coached and have an identity that fits their roster. Most of all they are young, hungry and have a ton to prove. With a younger than 24 year old rotation this is what I have been dreaming of. I'm just glad our antiquated doesnt play the youth head coach finally listened to you all. Good work

Wasnt in the "Thibs doesnt play the young guys" camp. Its been more about Thibs playing some guys more than anyone else in the league. Both in their 20s. Also about where some young guys are being slotted.

I know its just one game, but IQ showed what he can do when he doesnt have to run the offense as well. Been saying it since his rookie season. Hope Quickley can continue to get time playing off the ball. Nice to see him on the court more with Brunson.

As far as coaching, something I wrote before the game, and was echoed in the telecast was an attention to detail during this streak, which wasnt present earlier in the season. From the coach to the players. Pointing that out in real time doesnt show a lack of patience. It shows that we're paying attention.

sure... but there's a sentiment here that Thibs and the coaches didnt pay attention to these details, now they are and its translating into winning. I find that laughable.

This has been pretty simple and straightforward. The FO extended and in the immediate future committed to Brunson/RJ/Randle/Mitch as their core and that's not bad. I dont see a clear all star there but the are 4 offer some pretty good things. So its a case of maximizing the rotations and chemistry there.

Coaching staff always had Grimes in mind. They started him as soon as he was available despite Cam playing well and Grimes having no preseason.

It took 20ish games. The big coaching adjustment was subbing McBride for Rose/Fournier, but its really been about being patient with that starting 4 and Grimes being the right guy for them.

On the same note stuff like "Randle can only take us so" show's how fans can be totally oblivious to what's happening and being built here.

I dont find an opposing coach being able to sum up how to beat the Knicks in less than 15 seconds funny. And he was right. We had the worst 3pt defense in the league. NBA record setting 3pt shot attempts against us. Thats not an attention to detail. As much as its being sold as one.

We're talking about an NBA coach, not "dear leader" who is infallible, above criticism, and incapable of error.

As for Randle, we'ere not even at the halfway point, and you're acting like a win streak shows that Randle is clutch.

Oh whoa, from the guys over at KFS: 14 of the next 17 games are against teams under .500

We are playing a softer part of the schedule but the perimeter D with Deuce and Grimes is off the charts. Our shooting has been better