Knicks · [Game Thread 12/21/22] Knicks at Raptors 7:30PM (page 7)

martin wrote:Is it me or is RJ the only player in the NBA who needs to be told to NOT drive straight into 2 defenders?

I’m still confused by this maneuver.

Are you? Who do you think he learned it from? He learned it from watching Ju!

djsunyc wrote:

There he is!

This game came down to one thing. Turn overs. Toronto 4, NY 16

djsunyc wrote:

No Grimes, no MitchRob, and no stops going down the stretch against a (one on one) Raptors team.
BLAME Coach Thibs 8 man rotation and 3 guard rotation!
The sad part of tonight's game was we (Knicks) were on the end of a back to back ..
Brunson ran out of gas in the first quarter,
MitchRob legs were cramping up,
Barrett was scoring but so was every opponent he defended,
Randle was dead-tired when the ball hit the rim going up for the dunk.
The 9th win wasn't important to the INJURY-coach Tom Thibs or we would've seen a 10 or 11 man rotation on the court at the end of a back to back.

martin wrote:

djsunyc wrote:

Post of the Decade!

Miss you DJSU!

Philc1 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

CleaverGreene wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Man... If Siakam hits a 50 piece...

Not sure if we have anyone who can match up on him defensively...I know Randle can't do it.

Has Sims play him at all today?

He'd foul Sims out too. He's just a tough matchup.

We Randle can’t guard Tweener forwards

There are roll players that can guard him better than Randle. This is also why I didn’t understand sitting cam. He’s the only forward on the team that’s built to guard PF tweeners.

fun game... tough one for Brunson. Cant win em all... I liked the fight. Next we should take out that frustration on Chi

blkexec wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

CleaverGreene wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Man... If Siakam hits a 50 piece...

Not sure if we have anyone who can match up on him defensively...I know Randle can't do it.

Has Sims play him at all today?

He'd foul Sims out too. He's just a tough matchup.

We Randle can’t guard Tweener forwards

There are roll players that can guard him better than Randle. This is also why I didn’t understand sitting cam. He’s the only forward on the team that’s built to guard PF tweeners.

Siakam would've just bullied Cam too. I agree we do need a combo forward 3&D guy. A James Johnson type. Doesn't need to be a starter, but someone bigger than 6'6" range.

The curse of dj. I just wish he would've popped in sooner to warn us about how much losing sucks, you know, being so long and all!

8 is a nice number though.

RJ was hot in the first half, and even with the 19 (?) points, thought we weren't feeding him enough that half. Was skeptical of replacing Grimes with Rose being we were down our primary wing defender. You give the benefit of the doubt though. Would like to see Cam get those minutes if if Q is going to be out longer.

Brutal watching Brunson, but everyone's entitled to a stinker once in a while.

Onto the next. Already feel bad for Chicago.

BigDaddyG wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

CleaverGreene wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Man... If Siakam hits a 50 piece...

Not sure if we have anyone who can match up on him defensively...I know Randle can't do it.

Has Sims play him at all today?

He'd foul Sims out too. He's just a tough matchup.

We Randle can’t guard Tweener forwards

There are roll players that can guard him better than Randle. This is also why I didn’t understand sitting cam. He’s the only forward on the team that’s built to guard PF tweeners.

Siakam would've just bullied Cam too. I agree we do need a combo forward 3&D guy. A James Johnson type. Doesn't need to be a starter, but someone bigger than 6'6" range.

Was at the game. Tough game all the way through. Really thought the Raptors would cave when we went up 2 in third. Siakam looks taller than 6'8. Crazy length makes him play closer to 7 feet. Don't think any one player would have stopped him last night. Only chance was to back off and hope he missed his outside shots. Once at the rim he extends well to the basket and is good at knowing how to draw the foul. I was surprised we did not throw more doubles at him.

Surprised we put IQ in as a starter. He did well but may have hurt the second unit. Rose was not the same. Was hoping Cam would have been the starter. Maybe a better idea since his length would have matched up better against the Raptors wings.

Tried to look some game info including TO's how but my Florida VPN was acting up during the game. Not surprised to find out that we had 16. Feel that was the difference in the game. Other observations were, despite strong game, RJ still has the "GO" mentality on offense. Rarely looks to rotate the ball or set someone else up. Besides a couple of easy alleys to MR. But that may be because that is one of my pet peeves for him. I feel Randle has been the best at moving the ball among the big three. But still backing up into double teams. JB struggled. Feel once again when teams make him work in the back court and put a defender with good length on him, he has trouble getting the 10ft game going and struggles. Raptors had Hermangomez guarding him a lot. Several times for the length of the court. IQ kept it going and is real shifty. Having MR out for the 4th really hurt. Randle and RJ also looked gassed to end the game.

Can't read too much into this game. It was the back end of a back to back, no Grimes, too many TO's and refs messed up several calls. Watching up close, it's crazy how much contact Randle takes without any calls. Think him initiating contact may be the issue. He also rarely flinches when hit while others do the soccer flop.

Friday we start a longer streak.

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

CleaverGreene wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Man... If Siakam hits a 50 piece...

Not sure if we have anyone who can match up on him defensively...I know Randle can't do it.

Has Sims play him at all today?

He'd foul Sims out too. He's just a tough matchup.

We Randle can’t guard Tweener forwards

There are roll players that can guard him better than Randle. This is also why I didn’t understand sitting cam. He’s the only forward on the team that’s built to guard PF tweeners.

Siakam would've just bullied Cam too. I agree we do need a combo forward 3&D guy. A James Johnson type. Doesn't need to be a starter, but someone bigger than 6'6" range.

Was at the game. Tough game all the way through. Really thought the Raptors would cave when we went up 2 in third. Siakam looks taller than 6'8. Crazy length makes him play closer to 7 feet. Don't think any one player would have stopped him last night. Only chance was to back off and hope he missed his outside shots. Once at the rim he extends well to the basket and is good at knowing how to draw the foul. I was surprised we did not throw more doubles at him.

Surprised we put IQ in as a starter. He did well but may have hurt the second unit. Rose was not the same. Was hoping Cam would have been the starter. Maybe a better idea since his length would have matched up better against the Raptors wings.

Tried to look some game info including TO's how but my Florida VPN was acting up during the game. Not surprised to find out that we had 16. Feel that was the difference in the game. Other observations were, despite strong game, RJ still has the "GO" mentality on offense. Rarely looks to rotate the ball or set someone else up. Besides a couple of easy alleys to MR. But that may be because that is one of my pet peeves for him. I feel Randle has been the best at moving the ball among the big three. But still backing up into double teams. JB struggled. Feel once again when teams make him work in the back court and put a defender with good length on him, he has trouble getting the 10ft game going and struggles. Raptors had Hermangomez guarding him a lot. Several times for the length of the court. IQ kept it going and is real shifty. Having MR out for the 4th really hurt. Randle and RJ also looked gassed to end the game.

Can't read too much into this game. It was the back end of a back to back, no Grimes, too many TO's and refs messed up several calls. Watching up close, it's crazy how much contact Randle takes without any calls. Think him initiating contact may be the issue. He also rarely flinches when hit while others do the soccer flop.

Friday we start a longer streak.

To be fair, this was an issue two years ago when Carlisle sat him in the playoffs. Thibs and staff are going to have to figure out way to get JB free in those situations. Also the reason the team still needs an Alpha shot creator.

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

CleaverGreene wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Man... If Siakam hits a 50 piece...

Not sure if we have anyone who can match up on him defensively...I know Randle can't do it.

Has Sims play him at all today?

He'd foul Sims out too. He's just a tough matchup.

We Randle can’t guard Tweener forwards

There are roll players that can guard him better than Randle. This is also why I didn’t understand sitting cam. He’s the only forward on the team that’s built to guard PF tweeners.

Siakam would've just bullied Cam too. I agree we do need a combo forward 3&D guy. A James Johnson type. Doesn't need to be a starter, but someone bigger than 6'6" range.

Was at the game. Tough game all the way through. Really thought the Raptors would cave when we went up 2 in third. Siakam looks taller than 6'8. Crazy length makes him play closer to 7 feet. Don't think any one player would have stopped him last night. Only chance was to back off and hope he missed his outside shots. Once at the rim he extends well to the basket and is good at knowing how to draw the foul. I was surprised we did not throw more doubles at him.

Surprised we put IQ in as a starter. He did well but may have hurt the second unit. Rose was not the same. Was hoping Cam would have been the starter. Maybe a better idea since his length would have matched up better against the Raptors wings.

Tried to look some game info including TO's how but my Florida VPN was acting up during the game. Not surprised to find out that we had 16. Feel that was the difference in the game. Other observations were, despite strong game, RJ still has the "GO" mentality on offense. Rarely looks to rotate the ball or set someone else up. Besides a couple of easy alleys to MR. But that may be because that is one of my pet peeves for him. I feel Randle has been the best at moving the ball among the big three. But still backing up into double teams. JB struggled. Feel once again when teams make him work in the back court and put a defender with good length on him, he has trouble getting the 10ft game going and struggles. Raptors had Hermangomez guarding him a lot. Several times for the length of the court. IQ kept it going and is real shifty. Having MR out for the 4th really hurt. Randle and RJ also looked gassed to end the game.

Can't read too much into this game. It was the back end of a back to back, no Grimes, too many TO's and refs messed up several calls. Watching up close, it's crazy how much contact Randle takes without any calls. Think him initiating contact may be the issue. He also rarely flinches when hit while others do the soccer flop.

Friday we start a longer streak.

To be fair, this was an issue two years ago when Carlisle sat him in the playoffs. Thibs and staff are going to have to figure out way to get JB free in those situations. Also the reason the team still needs an Alpha shot creator.

True. If you watch his movement without the ball, it is limited at times. Think improving that combined with JR and RJ kicking it out more often to him would give him some looks from three. He is decent from there. To be fair, he does sometimes force it a bit off the kick out though. PnR may help as will having Grimes being the ball up sometimes and he work off picks. As he can do if he gives up ball early to elbows.

HofstraBBall wrote:
True. If you watch his movement without the ball, it is limited at times. Think improving that combined with JR and RJ kicking it out more often to him would give him some looks from three. He is decent from there. To be fair, he does sometimes force it a bit off the kick out though. PnR may help as will having Grimes being the ball up sometimes and he work off picks. As he can do if he gives up ball early to elbows.

I don't generally feel good about Brunson's threes - certainly not from the corners anyways. He's starting to hit from off center a little more regularly, but the main thing he has going for himself is the clutch gene. Seems infinitely more likely to hit the shot when the pressure's on as opposed to an open 3.

Tough loss and seeing the 8 game win streak come to an end like that really sucks. Not gonna lie felt like a playoff loss for some reason. But give some credit to Toronto and especially Siakim. He was unstoppable all game long. Scoring 52 in MSG is not easy. He looked like Giannis on some of those plays. Not much you can do when a guy that good is feeling it like that and also gets help from the zebras. That late call on Brunson on a Siakim baseline fadeaway miss was killer. I hope the league does something about these late calls cause it seems like they are happening a lot more this season. It's like the zebras call a foul 90% of the time if the guy misses. Either call the foul as it happens or don't!

The turnovers killed us too. Brunson had a couple of dumb ones. And he had an off game too (7 points on 3/14, 5 turnovers) but it happens. He'll bounce back next time we play these guys. Randle and RJ picked up the slack and were outstanding! RJ's dunk over OG was sick! Speaking of OG, I was not that impressed. We do need a guy like him to defend guys like Siakim and Jerami Grant but no way I'm giving up unprotected picks years from now for him. Rather keep our picks and keep RJ tbh.

Kudos to IQ for stepping in for Grimes and killing it. Hit 4 big threes in that third quarter when we got down. But we missed Grimes. He's a glue.

I've been impressed with Thibs during this win streak but he did not coach his best game last night. Did not like wasting all the timeouts or sitting out Robinson in the fourth cause Hartenstein was horrendous. And I did not see any adjustments made to make it a little more difficult for Siakim. I know he sent a double team a couple of times but when a guy is feeling it like that, you gotta completely deny him the ball and take away what he does best and most comfortable and I don't think we did that.

MaTT4281 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:
True. If you watch his movement without the ball, it is limited at times. Think improving that combined with JR and RJ kicking it out more often to him would give him some looks from three. He is decent from there. To be fair, he does sometimes force it a bit off the kick out though. PnR may help as will having Grimes being the ball up sometimes and he work off picks. As he can do if he gives up ball early to elbows.

I don't generally feel good about Brunson's threes - certainly not from the corners anyways. He's starting to hit from off center a little more regularly, but the main thing he has going for himself is the clutch gene. Seems infinitely more likely to hit the shot when the pressure's on as opposed to an open 3.

he's right near his career average... just a touch below.

We are not a team that's gonna hit clutch 3s (feeling). I much prefer Brunson's ability to convert in the paint or mid range vs. a 3 unless its such a good look you gotta let it go

SergioNYK wrote:Tough loss and seeing the 8 game win streak come to an end like that really sucks. Not gonna lie felt like a playoff loss for some reason. But give some credit to Toronto and especially Siakim. He was unstoppable all game long. Scoring 52 in MSG is not easy. He looked like Giannis on some of those plays. Not much you can do when a guy that good is feeling it like that and also gets help from the zebras. That late call on Brunson on a Siakim baseline fadeaway miss was killer. I hope the league does something about these late calls cause it seems like they are happening a lot more this season. It's like the zebras call a foul 90% of the time if the guy misses. Either call the foul as it happens or don't!

The turnovers killed us too. Brunson had a couple of dumb ones. And he had an off game too (7 points on 3/14, 5 turnovers) but it happens. He'll bounce back next time we play these guys. Randle and RJ picked up the slack and were outstanding! RJ's dunk over OG was sick! Speaking of OG, I was not that impressed. We do need a guy like him to defend guys like Siakim and Jerami Grant but no way I'm giving up unprotected picks years from now for him. Rather keep our picks and keep RJ tbh.

Kudos to IQ for stepping in for Grimes and killing it. Hit 4 big threes in that third quarter when we got down. But we missed Grimes. He's a glue.

I've been impressed with Thibs during this win streak but he did not coach his best game last night. Did not like wasting all the timeouts or sitting out Robinson in the fourth cause Hartenstein was horrendous. And I did not see any adjustments made to make it a little more difficult for Siakim. I know he sent a double team a couple of times but when a guy is feeling it like that, you gotta completely deny him the ball and take away what he does best and most comfortable and I don't think we did that.

Mitch came out after he was limping...

I think we can all see that this is probably the last year of DRose, maybe he'll come back in a Taj type role but he is done.

random thoughts:

Wasn't that long ago Brunson was playing through a tweaked ankle. He had a couple of floaters that fell short and it made me wonder if his ankle is bothering him

Re Siakem: i would have considered playing a small guy on him to take away his dribble, e.g., Grimes if healthy. Also he's such a string bean i would have considered posting him up on the other end. He's a good defender but that's mostly from his good feet and poking balls away. Feel post up is the way to punish him on the other end (that said, he is long so this might be a pipe dream)

the crazy thing up reffing is the NBA will say they review every play and grade -- 2 minute report etc. But i know the 2 minute report and i suspect the grading in general gives zero weight to consistency of calls which is what players and coaches want most so they can adjust accordingly. OG was riding everyone hard last night on drives to hoop many/most of which were allowed. Siakem was getting those calls for far less contact.

Deuce got a long way to go but it was nice to see the types of shots he is taking. Pull up 3 that had a toe on the line? Wow

Sambakick wrote:

martin wrote:

djsunyc wrote:

Post of the Decade!

Miss you DJSU!

dj knows how to do it right