Knicks · Minutes (page 2)
blkexec wrote:Panos wrote:I also think a lot of posters just repeat what they read here like an echo chamber without bothering to look up the facts.I also think a lot of posters just look at stats instead of the game. Throw the stats in the trash and just watch the game.
Also, if this was about Thibs giving too many minutes to his players, that conversation is old, dead and gone (almost 2-3 years ago). But I'm sure people will talk about it over and over and over, because there's nothing else to talk about I guess, until the knicks make a spash move at the trade deadline.
What the knicks need to focus on is not what everybody else in the league is doing.
Whats important is getting the best out of the players we have period. And if giving them the league average in mins per game, is causing more missed free throws, TO's and bad play in the 4th. That means something has to change, thats it.
1. Get in shape
2. Reduce minutes
3. Make a tradeBut to post a link then say the Thibs hate is overblown, is gas lighting. What are we trying to accomplish by bringing up a discussion that was dead 3yrs ago. Back when we hired Thibs, thats what label came with Thibs. And thats also when these links came out saying Thibs doesn't over play his players, according to the stats. So......... Why are we creating this thread again? Sorry I missed that part.
So explain to me again why Thibs’ minutes distribution discussion is 2 to 3 years old and it’s pointless to bring up?
( You can go look at last night’s game thread and point that out to all those whining about it that the topic was dead 3 years ago.).
KnickDanger wrote:blkexec wrote:Panos wrote:I also think a lot of posters just repeat what they read here like an echo chamber without bothering to look up the facts.I also think a lot of posters just look at stats instead of the game. Throw the stats in the trash and just watch the game.
Also, if this was about Thibs giving too many minutes to his players, that conversation is old, dead and gone (almost 2-3 years ago). But I'm sure people will talk about it over and over and over, because there's nothing else to talk about I guess, until the knicks make a spash move at the trade deadline.
What the knicks need to focus on is not what everybody else in the league is doing.
Whats important is getting the best out of the players we have period. And if giving them the league average in mins per game, is causing more missed free throws, TO's and bad play in the 4th. That means something has to change, thats it.
1. Get in shape
2. Reduce minutes
3. Make a tradeBut to post a link then say the Thibs hate is overblown, is gas lighting. What are we trying to accomplish by bringing up a discussion that was dead 3yrs ago. Back when we hired Thibs, thats what label came with Thibs. And thats also when these links came out saying Thibs doesn't over play his players, according to the stats. So......... Why are we creating this thread again? Sorry I missed that part.
So explain to me again why Thibs’ minutes distribution discussion is 2 to 3 years old and it’s pointless to bring up?
( You can go look at last night’s game thread and point that out to all those whining about it that the topic was dead 3 years ago.).
The topic I said was dead was Thibs total minutes distribution over the course of a season. Posters on this site has personally responded to this statement I made 3 years ago. That statement / discussion was dead, when multiple posters said All coaches lean heavy on their best players and all coaches play their best players heavy minutes. So just for me personally, I'm not going to argue against that, there's no point. If the data says something different from what my eyes see, no problem.
My current argument is simple. Just because other coaches do the same (play starting unit heavy minutes), doesn't mean that works for this current team. And we can see that in crunch time. This could be a precursor to what we will see in the playoffs.
Now to Joe's point. Fans complain when Thibs played a deep roster (I don't remember anybody complaining about that). I due remember fans complaining that we are not winning games. And thats when Thibs went with his classic 9 man rotation....lead to an 8 game winning streak. And the rest is history. So looks like this team is stuck between a rock and a hard place. We cant win consistently when Thibs plays 10 or 11 guys. And when he shortens the rotation, we start winning more games, but we also show signs of fatigue and tired legs.
This is why I said Thibs is a perfect coach for an all star team or starting 5 with all star players who are used to playing heavy minutes, without their performance taking a hit. Personally I don't think we have a roster that fits Thibs rotation style and we don't have a roster filled with players he can trust. Is that Thibs fault? Or the FO fault, who hired Thibs and provided the roster for Thibs to manage? Or is it even possible to find the players Thibs trust and are those players available? If not, then whats next? Stay the course? I'm going to assume if we stay the course, and get knocked out of the first round, whats next? Will fans still want to hold onto Thibs and hope he changes or does this put pressure on the FO to find players Thibs prefer? I'm not sure there's enough available players to meets Thibs criteria. But I could be wrong.
blkexec wrote:KnickDanger wrote:blkexec wrote:Panos wrote:I also think a lot of posters just repeat what they read here like an echo chamber without bothering to look up the facts.I also think a lot of posters just look at stats instead of the game. Throw the stats in the trash and just watch the game.
Also, if this was about Thibs giving too many minutes to his players, that conversation is old, dead and gone (almost 2-3 years ago). But I'm sure people will talk about it over and over and over, because there's nothing else to talk about I guess, until the knicks make a spash move at the trade deadline.
What the knicks need to focus on is not what everybody else in the league is doing.
Whats important is getting the best out of the players we have period. And if giving them the league average in mins per game, is causing more missed free throws, TO's and bad play in the 4th. That means something has to change, thats it.
1. Get in shape
2. Reduce minutes
3. Make a tradeBut to post a link then say the Thibs hate is overblown, is gas lighting. What are we trying to accomplish by bringing up a discussion that was dead 3yrs ago. Back when we hired Thibs, thats what label came with Thibs. And thats also when these links came out saying Thibs doesn't over play his players, according to the stats. So......... Why are we creating this thread again? Sorry I missed that part.
So explain to me again why Thibs’ minutes distribution discussion is 2 to 3 years old and it’s pointless to bring up?
( You can go look at last night’s game thread and point that out to all those whining about it that the topic was dead 3 years ago.).
The topic I said was dead was Thibs total minutes distribution over the course of a season. Posters on this site has personally responded to this statement I made 3 years ago. That statement / discussion was dead, when multiple posters said All coaches lean heavy on their best players and all coaches play their best players heavy minutes. So just for me personally, I'm not going to argue against that, there's no point. If the data says something different from what my eyes see, no problem.
My current argument is simple. Just because other coaches do the same (play starting unit heavy minutes), doesn't mean that works for this current team. And we can see that in crunch time. This could be a precursor to what we will see in the playoffs.
Now to Joe's point. Fans complain when Thibs played a deep roster (I don't remember anybody complaining about that). I due remember fans complaining that we are not winning games. And thats when Thibs went with his classic 9 man rotation....lead to an 8 game winning streak. And the rest is history. So looks like this team is stuck between a rock and a hard place. We cant win consistently when Thibs plays 10 or 11 guys. And when he shortens the rotation, we start winning more games, but we also show signs of fatigue and tired legs.
This is why I said Thibs is a perfect coach for an all star team or starting 5 with all star players who are used to playing heavy minutes, without their performance taking a hit. Personally I don't think we have a roster that fits Thibs rotation style and we don't have a roster filled with players he can trust. Is that Thibs fault? Or the FO fault, who hired Thibs and provided the roster for Thibs to manage? Or is it even possible to find the players Thibs trust and are those players available? If not, then whats next? Stay the course? I'm going to assume if we stay the course, and get knocked out of the first round, whats next? Will fans still want to hold onto Thibs and hope he changes or does this put pressure on the FO to find players Thibs prefer? I'm not sure there's enough available players to meets Thibs criteria. But I could be wrong.
So the topic is dead because you and others addressed it 3 years ago and because you say so -- got it!
I will say it is a tiresome topic and I am quite prepared to move on. Go Knicks.
Can a COTY type coach, a regular season award get the most of his players for 82 games but then due to injury, or match up, Fatigue, or a team that was better later in the season beat them, its deemed a "failure"?
I hear this over and over again.
Some fans are really browbeat by losing to ATL two years ago is if the regular season was some kind of "Scam". I thought ATL despite being one game lessor in that weird short season was a better team going in to the series.
A 5 beating a 4 is not quite the scandalous up one might think.
Thibs minutes have been eloquently demonstrated to not be out of line. The echo chamber is real. BLKexed by posting your "Articles from the past" to ardently prove your point is not the bonafide evidence that says "Gotcha".
In fact, its the echo that was discussed.
But, there to your credit there is a valid opinion or thought about minutes. The trade off. He goes longer with other and we lose more games and end up better rested for a play in or have to face the 1 seed in the first round?
Or finish 5th or 6th with shorter bench?
and is this issue anydifferent than what other teams face? You don't care but as discussed, what is the context of your argument if you can't prove alternative schematics and they are successful?
Vs. Detroit RJ played 27 min. I'd say he might have needed a shorter run and Thibs wanted him fresh for the Toronto game. And he carried us in the second half. Good minutes management in hindsight over a back to back.
Others? Well, have to win the Piston game and not mess that up. Its the NBA and any given night there are upsets.
Bottom line is THibs is having a good season. You that hard to win "arguments" that you need this? We all wrong often as fans. Whats the big woo?
We can't just let it go. Convo's need accuracy.
KnickDanger wrote:blkexec wrote:KnickDanger wrote:blkexec wrote:Panos wrote:I also think a lot of posters just repeat what they read here like an echo chamber without bothering to look up the facts.I also think a lot of posters just look at stats instead of the game. Throw the stats in the trash and just watch the game.
Also, if this was about Thibs giving too many minutes to his players, that conversation is old, dead and gone (almost 2-3 years ago). But I'm sure people will talk about it over and over and over, because there's nothing else to talk about I guess, until the knicks make a spash move at the trade deadline.
What the knicks need to focus on is not what everybody else in the league is doing.
Whats important is getting the best out of the players we have period. And if giving them the league average in mins per game, is causing more missed free throws, TO's and bad play in the 4th. That means something has to change, thats it.
1. Get in shape
2. Reduce minutes
3. Make a tradeBut to post a link then say the Thibs hate is overblown, is gas lighting. What are we trying to accomplish by bringing up a discussion that was dead 3yrs ago. Back when we hired Thibs, thats what label came with Thibs. And thats also when these links came out saying Thibs doesn't over play his players, according to the stats. So......... Why are we creating this thread again? Sorry I missed that part.
So explain to me again why Thibs’ minutes distribution discussion is 2 to 3 years old and it’s pointless to bring up?
( You can go look at last night’s game thread and point that out to all those whining about it that the topic was dead 3 years ago.).
The topic I said was dead was Thibs total minutes distribution over the course of a season. Posters on this site has personally responded to this statement I made 3 years ago. That statement / discussion was dead, when multiple posters said All coaches lean heavy on their best players and all coaches play their best players heavy minutes. So just for me personally, I'm not going to argue against that, there's no point. If the data says something different from what my eyes see, no problem.
My current argument is simple. Just because other coaches do the same (play starting unit heavy minutes), doesn't mean that works for this current team. And we can see that in crunch time. This could be a precursor to what we will see in the playoffs.
Now to Joe's point. Fans complain when Thibs played a deep roster (I don't remember anybody complaining about that). I due remember fans complaining that we are not winning games. And thats when Thibs went with his classic 9 man rotation....lead to an 8 game winning streak. And the rest is history. So looks like this team is stuck between a rock and a hard place. We cant win consistently when Thibs plays 10 or 11 guys. And when he shortens the rotation, we start winning more games, but we also show signs of fatigue and tired legs.
This is why I said Thibs is a perfect coach for an all star team or starting 5 with all star players who are used to playing heavy minutes, without their performance taking a hit. Personally I don't think we have a roster that fits Thibs rotation style and we don't have a roster filled with players he can trust. Is that Thibs fault? Or the FO fault, who hired Thibs and provided the roster for Thibs to manage? Or is it even possible to find the players Thibs trust and are those players available? If not, then whats next? Stay the course? I'm going to assume if we stay the course, and get knocked out of the first round, whats next? Will fans still want to hold onto Thibs and hope he changes or does this put pressure on the FO to find players Thibs prefer? I'm not sure there's enough available players to meets Thibs criteria. But I could be wrong.
So the topic is dead because you and others addressed it 3 years ago and because you say so -- got it!
I will say it is a tiresome topic and I am quite prepared to move on. Go Knicks.
Exactly. And to clarify, topic being dead was from my perspective. In general this topic is as alive as ever. Personally I’m just tired of talking about it. Didn’t mean to say everybody should stop discussing it. I don’t have or want that power. I still think there’s discussion to be had and I would love to listen. But I’ve said all I can about thibs. And I’ve heard it all from both or all sides.
The atl series was more than tired legs. It was also a lack of preparation for those double teams Randle couldn’t handle. And without JB on the team to help alleviate pressure from Randle, it was a tough series.
MDA style wasn’t built for the playoffs, unless he had his perfect roster of MDA players. You can say the same for thibs. His rotation strategy works during the regular season, but during the playoffs not so well (based on knick history).
The goal is not to win the regular season. The goal is to win a chip. Has thibs showed enough to say he’s the coach we need to win a chip?
Since we showed that we have what it takes to be a playoff team, the focus should shift from development to win now mode. Personally I’m not giving 4 of my 5 starters long term contracts to develop the yoots. We are expected to make the playoffs with this roster and definitely the playin.
So I don’t care how many games a coach wins in the regular season. Your career is judged by your success in the playoffs. The negative signs were there during the games we won. So I’m not surprised when we give up huge leads and lose by 1 or 2 points during most of our Ls. That’s called growth and on the job learning as a team.
But this hybrid development stuff doesn’t always work. Either we are moving towards being a playoff team or a development team.
So far thibs has created a defensive culture that I like and it’s a base we can build on, so that’s great news. What’s next for thibs and this team? Who the hell knows. The FO is tight lip and Thibs doesn’t provide a lot of information. So all we can do is sit back and hold on. Because there will be some turbulence on the horizon.
Remember when they just out grind you in the 4th qtr to win games? Marv Albert used to say they were the best conditioned team in the league and it showed in crunch time.
That was 90s players.
Now it's "the coach plays him too much, his legs are tired"
Like this version of the NBA is easier.... I thought athletes were getting BETTER. Toronto's guys played the exact same minutes ours did.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/tea...
Ewing played 81 games and 37 minutes. Its almosts like Riley didnt trust his bench 
fishmike wrote:anyone follow the Knicks in the 90s?Remember when they just out grind you in the 4th qtr to win games? Marv Albert used to say they were the best conditioned team in the league and it showed in crunch time.
That was 90s players.
Now it's "the coach plays him too much, his legs are tired"
Like this version of the NBA is easier.... I thought athletes were getting BETTER. Toronto's guys played the exact same minutes ours did.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/tea...
Ewing played 81 games and 37 minutes. Its almosts like Riley didnt trust his bench
There are those of us out there that say he might've won a title in NY if he did. 😏
blkexec wrote:Nalod, not sure why you have to over exaggerate this just to make your point. It convolutes the discussion. Don’t have to say what coaches can do, then throw thibs in there. Just look at his current knick history.The atl series was more than tired legs. It was also a lack of preparation for those double teams Randle couldn’t handle. And without JB on the team to help alleviate pressure from Randle, it was a tough series.
MDA style wasn’t built for the playoffs, unless he had his perfect roster of MDA players. You can say the same for thibs. His rotation strategy works during the regular season, but during the playoffs not so well (based on knick history).
The goal is not to win the regular season. The goal is to win a chip. Has thibs showed enough to say he’s the coach we need to win a chip?
Since we showed that we have what it takes to be a playoff team, the focus should shift from development to win now mode. Personally I’m not giving 4 of my 5 starters long term contracts to develop the yoots. We are expected to make the playoffs with this roster and definitely the playin.
So I don’t care how many games a coach wins in the regular season. Your career is judged by your success in the playoffs. The negative signs were there during the games we won. So I’m not surprised when we give up huge leads and lose by 1 or 2 points during most of our Ls. That’s called growth and on the job learning as a team.
But this hybrid development stuff doesn’t always work. Either we are moving towards being a playoff team or a development team.
So far thibs has created a defensive culture that I like and it’s a base we can build on, so that’s great news. What’s next for thibs and this team? Who the hell knows. The FO is tight lip and Thibs doesn’t provide a lot of information. So all we can do is sit back and hold on. Because there will be some turbulence on the horizon.
A coaches job is not to win a chip. It's to get his players to play to their potential.
If we had guys like Durant, Kyrie, Greek on one team then yes, coaches job is to win a chip.
Feel many are ignoring one simple thing when discussing minute distribution, which is thatt we do not have the talent depth we thought we had. Our first unit is playing a lot of minutes because our second unit is just not that good.
Grimes, IQ and Obi did well in previous years.
Hart and Deuce are not a chip team second unit.
Feel if we upgrade the second unit, minute issue will resolve itself.
HofstraBBall wrote:blkexec wrote:Nalod, not sure why you have to over exaggerate this just to make your point. It convolutes the discussion. Don’t have to say what coaches can do, then throw thibs in there. Just look at his current knick history.The atl series was more than tired legs. It was also a lack of preparation for those double teams Randle couldn’t handle. And without JB on the team to help alleviate pressure from Randle, it was a tough series.
MDA style wasn’t built for the playoffs, unless he had his perfect roster of MDA players. You can say the same for thibs. His rotation strategy works during the regular season, but during the playoffs not so well (based on knick history).
The goal is not to win the regular season. The goal is to win a chip. Has thibs showed enough to say he’s the coach we need to win a chip?
Since we showed that we have what it takes to be a playoff team, the focus should shift from development to win now mode. Personally I’m not giving 4 of my 5 starters long term contracts to develop the yoots. We are expected to make the playoffs with this roster and definitely the playin.
So I don’t care how many games a coach wins in the regular season. Your career is judged by your success in the playoffs. The negative signs were there during the games we won. So I’m not surprised when we give up huge leads and lose by 1 or 2 points during most of our Ls. That’s called growth and on the job learning as a team.
But this hybrid development stuff doesn’t always work. Either we are moving towards being a playoff team or a development team.
So far thibs has created a defensive culture that I like and it’s a base we can build on, so that’s great news. What’s next for thibs and this team? Who the hell knows. The FO is tight lip and Thibs doesn’t provide a lot of information. So all we can do is sit back and hold on. Because there will be some turbulence on the horizon.
A coaches job is not to win a chip. It's to get his players to play to their potential.
If we had guys like Durant, Kyrie, Greek on one team then yes, coaches job is to win a chip.
Feel many are ignoring one simple thing when discussing minute distribution, which is thatt we do not have the talent depth we thought we had. Our first unit is playing a lot of minutes because our second unit is just not that good.
Grimes, IQ and Obi did well in previous years.
Hart and Deuce are not a chip team second unit.
Feel if we upgrade the second unit, minute issue will resolve itself.
The bold reminds me of the chicken vs the egg discussion.
In order to win a chip, doesn't the coach have to get the best potential out of his players?
And when did our talent depth go away? How did we go from being the deepest team in the league to having a weak bench? At one point, the second unit was more reliable than the first unit. So what changed?
Maybe instead of removing EF from the team, Thibs shouldve brought EF off the bench. Seems like Grimes being moved into the starting lineup was the beginning or ending of our second unit depth. Because what followed next was DNPs by Cam, Rose and EF. Seems like the weakening of the bench was self inflicted?
Personally I think our bench was overrated and Rose was the key player that made everything work. Removing Rose is when our bench took a massive hit. There's no veteran leadership off the bench anymore. And Rose was like a 2nd coach, due to his relationship with Thibs and understanding what Thibs expects from his players. That knowledge and leadership from Rose was key.
blkexec wrote:Nalod, not sure why you have to over exaggerate this just to make your point. It convolutes the discussion. Don’t have to say what coaches can do, then throw thibs in there. Just look at his current knick history.The atl series was more than tired legs. It was also a lack of preparation for those double teams Randle couldn’t handle. And without JB on the team to help alleviate pressure from Randle, it was a tough series.
MDA style wasn’t built for the playoffs, unless he had his perfect roster of MDA players. You can say the same for thibs. His rotation strategy works during the regular season, but during the playoffs not so well (based on knick history).
The goal is not to win the regular season. The goal is to win a chip. Has thibs showed enough to say he’s the coach we need to win a chip?
Since we showed that we have what it takes to be a playoff team, the focus should shift from development to win now mode. Personally I’m not giving 4 of my 5 starters long term contracts to develop the yoots. We are expected to make the playoffs with this roster and definitely the playin.
So I don’t care how many games a coach wins in the regular season. Your career is judged by your success in the playoffs. The negative signs were there during the games we won. So I’m not surprised when we give up huge leads and lose by 1 or 2 points during most of our Ls. That’s called growth and on the job learning as a team.
But this hybrid development stuff doesn’t always work. Either we are moving towards being a playoff team or a development team.
So far thibs has created a defensive culture that I like and it’s a base we can build on, so that’s great news. What’s next for thibs and this team? Who the hell knows. The FO is tight lip and Thibs doesn’t provide a lot of information. So all we can do is sit back and hold on. Because there will be some turbulence on the horizon.
Lets get to the playoffs first. That is not a given.
Your likley going to be critical of this team at seasons end becuase I doubt we win a chip.
Lets put it this way, expectations only get enhanced when you win the regular season. Anything shorter is "Well, we over played our guys".
Well, there are many factors to this. But, yours is about your agenda. Perhaps mine is about mine.
We have not shown we are a playoff team. That was two years ago in a short season.
Last year was not.
blkexec wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:blkexec wrote:Nalod, not sure why you have to over exaggerate this just to make your point. It convolutes the discussion. Don’t have to say what coaches can do, then throw thibs in there. Just look at his current knick history.The atl series was more than tired legs. It was also a lack of preparation for those double teams Randle couldn’t handle. And without JB on the team to help alleviate pressure from Randle, it was a tough series.
MDA style wasn’t built for the playoffs, unless he had his perfect roster of MDA players. You can say the same for thibs. His rotation strategy works during the regular season, but during the playoffs not so well (based on knick history).
The goal is not to win the regular season. The goal is to win a chip. Has thibs showed enough to say he’s the coach we need to win a chip?
Since we showed that we have what it takes to be a playoff team, the focus should shift from development to win now mode. Personally I’m not giving 4 of my 5 starters long term contracts to develop the yoots. We are expected to make the playoffs with this roster and definitely the playin.
So I don’t care how many games a coach wins in the regular season. Your career is judged by your success in the playoffs. The negative signs were there during the games we won. So I’m not surprised when we give up huge leads and lose by 1 or 2 points during most of our Ls. That’s called growth and on the job learning as a team.
But this hybrid development stuff doesn’t always work. Either we are moving towards being a playoff team or a development team.
So far thibs has created a defensive culture that I like and it’s a base we can build on, so that’s great news. What’s next for thibs and this team? Who the hell knows. The FO is tight lip and Thibs doesn’t provide a lot of information. So all we can do is sit back and hold on. Because there will be some turbulence on the horizon.
A coaches job is not to win a chip. It's to get his players to play to their potential.
If we had guys like Durant, Kyrie, Greek on one team then yes, coaches job is to win a chip.
Feel many are ignoring one simple thing when discussing minute distribution, which is thatt we do not have the talent depth we thought we had. Our first unit is playing a lot of minutes because our second unit is just not that good.
Grimes, IQ and Obi did well in previous years.
Hart and Deuce are not a chip team second unit.
Feel if we upgrade the second unit, minute issue will resolve itself.The bold reminds me of the chicken vs the egg discussion.
In order to win a chip, doesn't the coach have to get the best potential out of his players?
And when did our talent depth go away? How did we go from being the deepest team in the league to having a weak bench? At one point, the second unit was more reliable than the first unit. So what changed?
Maybe instead of removing EF from the team, Thibs shouldve brought EF off the bench. Seems like Grimes being moved into the starting lineup was the beginning or ending of our second unit depth. Because what followed next was DNPs by Cam, Rose and EF. Seems like the weakening of the bench was self inflicted?
Personally I think our bench was overrated and Rose was the key player that made everything work. Removing Rose is when our bench took a massive hit. There's no veteran leadership off the bench anymore. And Rose was like a 2nd coach, due to his relationship with Thibs and understanding what Thibs expects from his players. That knowledge and leadership from Rose was key.
Don't think it's a chicken and egg thing.
It's just realistic expectations.
In reality, only coaches with multiple elite players will be expected to win a chip.
If that was the case EVERY coach but ONE would be fired for not doing their job.
You mentioned several things that changed with second unit.
As I ment, Grimes was a big part of second unit. When he was promoted to first unit(a move that has worked) the second unit regressed. Obi getting hurt did not help. Nor did Rose not playing as well as he did last year. So three obvious things that changed.
Hopefully the FO is either focussed on upgrading the starting SG position, as I have suggested, and allowing Grimes back to second unit. And they will be making upgrades for a back up PF and Wing.
Don't see Deuce, Obi, Hart being enough.
Did assistant head coach Mike Woodson help Tom Thibs win COY ???
Hopefully, this will be Tom Thibs final season as a Knicks !!!
https://www.basketball-reference.com/lea...
Rk Player Pos Age G GS MPG
--- ------ --- --- -- -- ----
19 Julius Randle PF 28 45 45 35.7
32 RJ Barrett SG 22 39 39 34.4
39 Jalen Brunson PG 26 42 42 34.0
89 Quentin Grimes SG 22 34 29 29.5
116 Mitchell Robinson C 24 37 36 27.4
120 Immanuel Quickley PG 23 45 8 27.1
193 Isaiah Hartenstein C 24 45 7 18.6
236 Miles McBride PG 22 33 2 13.4
242 Jericho Sims C 24 32 2 12.3
ToddTT wrote:MPG leaders...https://www.basketball-reference.com/lea...
Rk Player Pos Age G GS MPG
--- ------ --- --- -- -- ----
19 Julius Randle PF 28 45 45 35.7
32 RJ Barrett SG 22 39 39 34.4
39 Jalen Brunson PG 26 42 42 34.0
89 Quentin Grimes SG 22 34 29 29.5
116 Mitchell Robinson C 24 37 36 27.4
120 Immanuel Quickley PG 23 45 8 27.1
193 Isaiah Hartenstein C 24 45 7 18.6
236 Miles McBride PG 22 33 2 13.4
242 Jericho Sims C 24 32 2 12.3
Get those facts out of here!
Discussion 1 is about Thibs history and reputation for how many minutes he played his teams in the past.
Discussion 2 is about the minutes that Thibs is playing his top guys currently.
I think discussion 1 is feeding into discussion 2, when I think both are mutually exclusive. Thibs reputation for running players so hard comes from 2 players, Luol Deng and Jimmy Butler (and for the time I don't think Butler's minutes were horrible)
Discussion 2 is about current minutes on his current team. The reality of the situation is if he doesn't play his best players heavy minutes, this team isn't going to win. With his current combination of players, this is the right combination to win. It's that simple. If the Knicks get him players that can give him production off the bench, my guess is he is going to play them. Right now with Rose aging (and the Knicks playing a very different way), Toppin regressing (He kinda has), and Deuce being a defensive designated hitter the bench is very weak.
I'll disagree that Thibs reputation is warranted. I agree that recently (recently being when the Knicks started winning) he has played his best players more minutes. But that is the choice right now.
A-Win more with certain players playing more minutes (up to a certain point in the season, the minutes allocation was a non issue).
B-Lose more while normalizing minutes.
joec32033 wrote:The problem I am seeing here is there are two distinct discussions intersecting.Discussion 1 is about Thibs history and reputation for how many minutes he played his teams in the past.
Discussion 2 is about the minutes that Thibs is playing his top guys currently.
I think discussion 1 is feeding into discussion 2, when I think both are mutually exclusive. Thibs reputation for running players so hard comes from 2 players, Luol Deng and Jimmy Butler (and for the time I don't think Butler's minutes were horrible)Discussion 2 is about current minutes on his current team. The reality of the situation is if he doesn't play his best players heavy minutes, this team isn't going to win. With his current combination of players, this is the right combination to win. It's that simple. If the Knicks get him players that can give him production off the bench, my guess is he is going to play them. Right now with Rose aging (and the Knicks playing a very different way), Toppin regressing (He kinda has), and Deuce being a defensive designated hitter the bench is very weak.
I'll disagree that Thibs reputation is warranted. I agree that recently (recently being when the Knicks started winning) he has played his best players more minutes. But that is the choice right now.
A-Win more with certain players playing more minutes (up to a certain point in the season, the minutes allocation was a non issue).
B-Lose more while normalizing minutes.
All of it 100% spot on.
I'm all for playing Obi and McBride and bench more but understand that reality: Prob slide to play-in territory.
Right now the Knicks have had a weaker spot in their schedule, these are the winnable games against what is coming up. If the Knicks nail these next 3 games (like wining 2 out of 3) and then go with a wider rotation when they play Cavs, Celtics, Nets, Heat, Clips, 76ers I'd understand it.
Kemet wrote:Brunson played 43 min today (2 Dimes), and 42 min yesterday (4 Dimes)thank got its not... also you are quoting minutes from an overtime game. You sir are level ZERO
Did assistant head coach Mike Woodson help Tom Thibs win COY ???
Hopefully, this will be Tom Thibs final season as a Knicks !!!
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Lol classic Thibs. Probably tired from all those birthday minutes.