Knicks · Giants/Vikings… (page 4)
foosballnick wrote:GustavBahler wrote:KnickDanger wrote:Swishfm3 wrote:KnickDanger wrote:foosballnick wrote:Swishfm3 wrote:KnickDanger wrote:Anyone remember how everyone pissed and moaned when the Giants took Jones with the 6th pick? Same gasbags LOLing Knicks the past couple of years.Great New York sports day!
With good reason..and if you have been watching Giants football, and understand the game, you will see he is still making the same mistakes.
In hindsite, that whole 2019 QB draft was weak and, when its all said and done, the Giants may come out with the best QB out of the lot.Go Giants
Please explain. I know football and have been watching. My observation is that he is NOT making the same mistakes and the team's performance as well as his stats would also bear that out. His turnovers are way down and he is not trying to play hero-ball. He has been extremely accurate this year, can run and is tough minded....all this with a no-name receiver corps. He is projected to make over $30M+ next year from either the Giants or another team.
Just take it at face value -- he knows the game. Him and the other experts who booed Jones on draft night and complained about his development on a mediocre team. The experts know you don't take your guy with the 6th pick -- you diddle around and get cute for value (they know what other teams would do). Or take Dwayne Haskins (rest his soul).
They also realize leading a team of mostly average talent to its first playoff win in 11 years is mitigated by "mistakes." So leave it at that.
lol...You really got butt hurt by that comment.
First off...EVERYONE (Giants fan and non-Giants) moaned about that pick. If you say didn't, you're lying. With that being said, that 2019 draft is not turning out to be the greatest, so its moot at this point.
Jones still has trouble reading a defense. His accuracy, although it has improved throughout the season, is still not very good and he makes zero adjustments on the line. To his credit, the kid is an athlete and seems to be very coachable. Daboll has done a FANTASTIC job coaching him up and coaches Kafka and Tierney have done great playing to his strength and shortening up the playbook.
Would I give him 30+ mil? HELL TO THE F1CK NO. I'm looking at the 20-25 mil range and that's being generous. The Giants would be foolish to tie up so much $$ on Jones when he needs so many pieces on offensive in order to be successful.
As a matter of fact, I did not moan and have been pro-Jones. It doesn't matter though. My whole point is about the mob of sheep called New York fans that whine, complain, and try to tear down, just like they do with Thibs, Randle, the draft picks, the signings...If the shoe fits....
And awwww -- you got to "lol butt hurt" me. That's the classic school yard poster response when someone responds in kind.What's the appropriate amount of criticism? When is it too much?
When its constant and not factual and does not lead to any meaningful discourse.
Case in point....the poster Swishfm3 is criticizing Daniel Jones in this thread for making the "same mistakes" including not being accurate, not being able to read a defense and not making adjustments, and he also uses passive agressive criticism such as finding success by being "coached up" with a shortened playbook. For good measure he brings in the 2019 draft positioning as some type of non sequitur to try and pile on and strenghthen his criticism.
If you take a deeper dive into accessable Advanced Passing data on Football Reference you would find that Daniel Jones currently sits on top of all other starting QB's with the highest on target percentage - 81% and in the top 4 with the lowest Bad Throw Percentage at 12.2%. He's doing this despite being one of the highest pressured QBs in the NFL at over 26% ranking in the top 5. Jones is also in the top 5 for completion percentage at 67.2%. All of this with the NFL's least experienced and perhaps lowest rated starting WRs.
So to the point....criticism that has no substance and is lazily applied or can easily be fact checked does not meet the standard of "appropriate" IMHO.
And you will also see that the Giants offense rank in the near bottom in yards after catch and YAC after completion. Jones is also in the bottom half yards per attempt, completed air yards and adj net yards per attempt. I can find stats to support my argument as well.
I am not purposely trying to sh1t on Jones, I'm just not going to ignore his faults and overly celebrate a really good game against a crappy Vikings team.
Daboll and staff HAVE done a great job of working to Jones strength (read options, play options, scrambles) but have been limited on what they can do with this QB...and I say that realizing that they do have a weak WR corps.
Regardless of how my posts my come off, I am indifferent when it comes to Jones. I think it would be mistake to offer him a big, long term contract. I believe the Giants would be in the same position moving forward with T. Taylor and using cap money to fill other holes, like the ILB and WR positions....but that's just my unpopular opinion.
Swishfm3 wrote:foosballnick wrote:GustavBahler wrote:KnickDanger wrote:Swishfm3 wrote:KnickDanger wrote:foosballnick wrote:Swishfm3 wrote:KnickDanger wrote:Anyone remember how everyone pissed and moaned when the Giants took Jones with the 6th pick? Same gasbags LOLing Knicks the past couple of years.Great New York sports day!
With good reason..and if you have been watching Giants football, and understand the game, you will see he is still making the same mistakes.
In hindsite, that whole 2019 QB draft was weak and, when its all said and done, the Giants may come out with the best QB out of the lot.Go Giants
Please explain. I know football and have been watching. My observation is that he is NOT making the same mistakes and the team's performance as well as his stats would also bear that out. His turnovers are way down and he is not trying to play hero-ball. He has been extremely accurate this year, can run and is tough minded....all this with a no-name receiver corps. He is projected to make over $30M+ next year from either the Giants or another team.
Just take it at face value -- he knows the game. Him and the other experts who booed Jones on draft night and complained about his development on a mediocre team. The experts know you don't take your guy with the 6th pick -- you diddle around and get cute for value (they know what other teams would do). Or take Dwayne Haskins (rest his soul).
They also realize leading a team of mostly average talent to its first playoff win in 11 years is mitigated by "mistakes." So leave it at that.
lol...You really got butt hurt by that comment.
First off...EVERYONE (Giants fan and non-Giants) moaned about that pick. If you say didn't, you're lying. With that being said, that 2019 draft is not turning out to be the greatest, so its moot at this point.
Jones still has trouble reading a defense. His accuracy, although it has improved throughout the season, is still not very good and he makes zero adjustments on the line. To his credit, the kid is an athlete and seems to be very coachable. Daboll has done a FANTASTIC job coaching him up and coaches Kafka and Tierney have done great playing to his strength and shortening up the playbook.
Would I give him 30+ mil? HELL TO THE F1CK NO. I'm looking at the 20-25 mil range and that's being generous. The Giants would be foolish to tie up so much $$ on Jones when he needs so many pieces on offensive in order to be successful.
As a matter of fact, I did not moan and have been pro-Jones. It doesn't matter though. My whole point is about the mob of sheep called New York fans that whine, complain, and try to tear down, just like they do with Thibs, Randle, the draft picks, the signings...If the shoe fits....
And awwww -- you got to "lol butt hurt" me. That's the classic school yard poster response when someone responds in kind.What's the appropriate amount of criticism? When is it too much?
When its constant and not factual and does not lead to any meaningful discourse.
Case in point....the poster Swishfm3 is criticizing Daniel Jones in this thread for making the "same mistakes" including not being accurate, not being able to read a defense and not making adjustments, and he also uses passive agressive criticism such as finding success by being "coached up" with a shortened playbook. For good measure he brings in the 2019 draft positioning as some type of non sequitur to try and pile on and strenghthen his criticism.
If you take a deeper dive into accessable Advanced Passing data on Football Reference you would find that Daniel Jones currently sits on top of all other starting QB's with the highest on target percentage - 81% and in the top 4 with the lowest Bad Throw Percentage at 12.2%. He's doing this despite being one of the highest pressured QBs in the NFL at over 26% ranking in the top 5. Jones is also in the top 5 for completion percentage at 67.2%. All of this with the NFL's least experienced and perhaps lowest rated starting WRs.
So to the point....criticism that has no substance and is lazily applied or can easily be fact checked does not meet the standard of "appropriate" IMHO.
And you will also see that the Giants offense rank in the near bottom in yards after catch and YAC after completion. Jones is also in the bottom half yards per attempt, completed air yards and adj net yards per attempt. I can find stats to support my argument as well.
I am not purposely trying to sh1t on Jones, I'm just not going to ignore his faults and overly celebrate a really good game against a crappy Vikings team.
Daboll and staff HAVE done a great job of working to Jones strength (read options, play options, scrambles) but have been limited on what they can do with this QB...and I say that realizing that they do have a weak WR corps.Regardless of how my posts my come off, I am indifferent when it comes to Jones. I think it would be mistake to offer him a big, long term contract. I believe the Giants would be in the same position moving forward with T. Taylor and using cap money to fill other holes, like the ILB and WR positions....but that's just my unpopular opinion.
Perhaps your opinion is unpopular because the facts you bring do not match the critique you are making. You stated that Jones is innaccurate and cannot make reads. None of your stats align with those claims. Also, you are essentially claiming that Tyrod is as good as Jones and yet thr coaching staff which you praise did not play Tyrod over Jones. Also interesting that the 13-4 Vikings are all of a sudden "crappy" because Jones beat them LOL.
Bottom line is if the coaching staff that you claim are doing a great job trusts Jones, he will be signed or franchise tagged. None of our opinions matter.
foosballnick wrote:Swishfm3 wrote:foosballnick wrote:GustavBahler wrote:KnickDanger wrote:Swishfm3 wrote:KnickDanger wrote:foosballnick wrote:Swishfm3 wrote:KnickDanger wrote:Anyone remember how everyone pissed and moaned when the Giants took Jones with the 6th pick? Same gasbags LOLing Knicks the past couple of years.Great New York sports day!
With good reason..and if you have been watching Giants football, and understand the game, you will see he is still making the same mistakes.
In hindsite, that whole 2019 QB draft was weak and, when its all said and done, the Giants may come out with the best QB out of the lot.Go Giants
Please explain. I know football and have been watching. My observation is that he is NOT making the same mistakes and the team's performance as well as his stats would also bear that out. His turnovers are way down and he is not trying to play hero-ball. He has been extremely accurate this year, can run and is tough minded....all this with a no-name receiver corps. He is projected to make over $30M+ next year from either the Giants or another team.
Just take it at face value -- he knows the game. Him and the other experts who booed Jones on draft night and complained about his development on a mediocre team. The experts know you don't take your guy with the 6th pick -- you diddle around and get cute for value (they know what other teams would do). Or take Dwayne Haskins (rest his soul).
They also realize leading a team of mostly average talent to its first playoff win in 11 years is mitigated by "mistakes." So leave it at that.
lol...You really got butt hurt by that comment.
First off...EVERYONE (Giants fan and non-Giants) moaned about that pick. If you say didn't, you're lying. With that being said, that 2019 draft is not turning out to be the greatest, so its moot at this point.
Jones still has trouble reading a defense. His accuracy, although it has improved throughout the season, is still not very good and he makes zero adjustments on the line. To his credit, the kid is an athlete and seems to be very coachable. Daboll has done a FANTASTIC job coaching him up and coaches Kafka and Tierney have done great playing to his strength and shortening up the playbook.
Would I give him 30+ mil? HELL TO THE F1CK NO. I'm looking at the 20-25 mil range and that's being generous. The Giants would be foolish to tie up so much $$ on Jones when he needs so many pieces on offensive in order to be successful.
As a matter of fact, I did not moan and have been pro-Jones. It doesn't matter though. My whole point is about the mob of sheep called New York fans that whine, complain, and try to tear down, just like they do with Thibs, Randle, the draft picks, the signings...If the shoe fits....
And awwww -- you got to "lol butt hurt" me. That's the classic school yard poster response when someone responds in kind.What's the appropriate amount of criticism? When is it too much?
When its constant and not factual and does not lead to any meaningful discourse.
Case in point....the poster Swishfm3 is criticizing Daniel Jones in this thread for making the "same mistakes" including not being accurate, not being able to read a defense and not making adjustments, and he also uses passive agressive criticism such as finding success by being "coached up" with a shortened playbook. For good measure he brings in the 2019 draft positioning as some type of non sequitur to try and pile on and strenghthen his criticism.
If you take a deeper dive into accessable Advanced Passing data on Football Reference you would find that Daniel Jones currently sits on top of all other starting QB's with the highest on target percentage - 81% and in the top 4 with the lowest Bad Throw Percentage at 12.2%. He's doing this despite being one of the highest pressured QBs in the NFL at over 26% ranking in the top 5. Jones is also in the top 5 for completion percentage at 67.2%. All of this with the NFL's least experienced and perhaps lowest rated starting WRs.
So to the point....criticism that has no substance and is lazily applied or can easily be fact checked does not meet the standard of "appropriate" IMHO.
And you will also see that the Giants offense rank in the near bottom in yards after catch and YAC after completion. Jones is also in the bottom half yards per attempt, completed air yards and adj net yards per attempt. I can find stats to support my argument as well.
I am not purposely trying to sh1t on Jones, I'm just not going to ignore his faults and overly celebrate a really good game against a crappy Vikings team.
Daboll and staff HAVE done a great job of working to Jones strength (read options, play options, scrambles) but have been limited on what they can do with this QB...and I say that realizing that they do have a weak WR corps.Regardless of how my posts my come off, I am indifferent when it comes to Jones. I think it would be mistake to offer him a big, long term contract. I believe the Giants would be in the same position moving forward with T. Taylor and using cap money to fill other holes, like the ILB and WR positions....but that's just my unpopular opinion.
Perhaps your opinion is unpopular because the facts you bring do not match the critique you are making. You stated that Jones is innaccurate and cannot make reads. None of your stats align with those claims. Also, you are essentially claiming that Tyrod is as good as Jones and yet thr coaching staff which you praise did not play Tyrod over Jones. Also interesting that the 13-4 Vikings are all of a sudden "crappy" because Jones beat them LOL.
Bottom line is if the coaching staff that you claim are doing a great job trusts Jones, he will be signed or franchise tagged. None of our opinions matter.
what? lol. Those stats literally tell you that Jones places the ball in positions where our receivers (regardless of how poor you think they are) are unable to create after the catch. Giants run read/play options because Jones has not shown he can do anything else. All his passes are short because he can not accurately make a 20+ yard pass...or too scared too. so yes...Tyrod Taylor would have probably done just as well.
So you're ok with the Giants giving Jones a multi year 30+ mil contract knowing that they desperately need Linebackers and a #1 wideout?
....and calling them crappy was unfair, but there is a reason why Minnesota had the most comeback wins this season.
All said it done, you're right...I believe that he will get resigned, but I hope its for a reasonable amount that doesn't prevent them from filling other holes in the team