Knicks · So Thibs only trusts 6 players on this roster (page 4)

Kemet wrote:Assistant coach Mike Woodson could not stop Randle & Barrett selfish ball handling on offense in 2021 season, so Woodson had Bullock's play help-offense/defense alongside Randle and Barrett in a lineup.
Bullock's role was to catch & pass, plus screen & pick for Randle's Bully-ball & Barrett's slashing through the lane.
Bullock performed the role so well, Dallas Mavs Cuban gave Bullock an offer-sheet the first day of free-agency, to do the same performance alongside KP, Doncic, and Brunson.

Assistant coach Mike Woodson player to player coaching performance had the Knicks playing successfully having a 10 Man (2-unit) rotation throughout the 2021 regular season. The Knicks 10 man (2 unit) rotation (11 players) were successful to become a 4th seed team in the EAST. It also got Tom Thibs the COY award.
The Knicks starter unit were a halfcourt offense of Iso ball (Randle & Barrett), and MitchRob's 4 or more offensive rebounds, having 3 defensive players in Payton Bullock and MitchRob's block party.
The Knicks 2nd unit (ALL) bench lineup was a quick scoring ball-movement uptempo lineup, which was led by veteran D.Rose & Taj Gibson & Burks plus two dynamic rookies Toppin & Quickley.
Assistant coach Mike Woodson quit the Knicks a couple of games before the end of the 2020-21 regular season.
Head coach Tom Thibs had to coach the Knicks vs Hawks playoff series by himself.
As soon as coach Tom Thibs reduced the Knicks 10 man rotation a game into 9 man rotation the Knicks LOSS the next 3 games playing sloppy selfish b.ball.

I was happy with Jalen Brunson 28 to 30 minutes performance he gave each game while a Dallas Mavs.
I'm getting knots in my stomach watching Brunson in a Knicks uniform turn into another selfish Randle & Barrett Clone under Tom Thibs watch.
Quickley has been my favorite young player on the Knicks the past 3 seasons, Quickley's performance used to look to pass to any moving teammate without the ball, feeding the ball to teammates who just got on the court.
That Quickley vanished. After Quickley been in the starter lineup alongside Randle for a few games Quickley performance did a quick 360 turn into selfish shoot first Iso player.

Sims supposed to be MitchRob backup at Center.
Randle minutes need to be reduced so Toppin or Hart get minutes.
Barrett's a 24 minute SF, and Cam Reddish a 24 minute SF too. Both are the same
Quickley's a 28 minute 6th Combo-guard, and Grimes a 22 minute SG
Brunson's a 28 minute PG, and D.Rose is a 22 minute PG
And Mcbride & Fournier & Hartenstein are the 11th/12th/13th player on the roster rotation throughout an 82 game season.
Tom Thibs are leading the Knicks to a 25-30 record .. SAD

Not to be that guy....but to be that guy this is a pet peeve of mine ever since Jason Kidd made the same mistake in an interview when he was with the nets....a 360 turn brings you right back where you were. You mean a 180 degree turn.

I also disagree with the general statement on Quickley. Before he was just a shooter. His passing now is eons better than his previous seasons. But before recently, if the ball was close enough for him to sniff leather, he was shooting.

joec32033 wrote:

Kemet wrote:Assistant coach Mike Woodson could not stop Randle & Barrett selfish ball handling on offense in 2021 season, so Woodson had Bullock's play help-offense/defense alongside Randle and Barrett in a lineup.
Bullock's role was to catch & pass, plus screen & pick for Randle's Bully-ball & Barrett's slashing through the lane.
Bullock performed the role so well, Dallas Mavs Cuban gave Bullock an offer-sheet the first day of free-agency, to do the same performance alongside KP, Doncic, and Brunson.

Assistant coach Mike Woodson player to player coaching performance had the Knicks playing successfully having a 10 Man (2-unit) rotation throughout the 2021 regular season. The Knicks 10 man (2 unit) rotation (11 players) were successful to become a 4th seed team in the EAST. It also got Tom Thibs the COY award.
The Knicks starter unit were a halfcourt offense of Iso ball (Randle & Barrett), and MitchRob's 4 or more offensive rebounds, having 3 defensive players in Payton Bullock and MitchRob's block party.
The Knicks 2nd unit (ALL) bench lineup was a quick scoring ball-movement uptempo lineup, which was led by veteran D.Rose & Taj Gibson & Burks plus two dynamic rookies Toppin & Quickley.
Assistant coach Mike Woodson quit the Knicks a couple of games before the end of the 2020-21 regular season.
Head coach Tom Thibs had to coach the Knicks vs Hawks playoff series by himself.
As soon as coach Tom Thibs reduced the Knicks 10 man rotation a game into 9 man rotation the Knicks LOSS the next 3 games playing sloppy selfish b.ball.

I was happy with Jalen Brunson 28 to 30 minutes performance he gave each game while a Dallas Mavs.
I'm getting knots in my stomach watching Brunson in a Knicks uniform turn into another selfish Randle & Barrett Clone under Tom Thibs watch.
Quickley has been my favorite young player on the Knicks the past 3 seasons, Quickley's performance used to look to pass to any moving teammate without the ball, feeding the ball to teammates who just got on the court.
That Quickley vanished. After Quickley been in the starter lineup alongside Randle for a few games Quickley performance did a quick 360 turn into selfish shoot first Iso player.

Sims supposed to be MitchRob backup at Center.
Randle minutes need to be reduced so Toppin or Hart get minutes.
Barrett's a 24 minute SF, and Cam Reddish a 24 minute SF too. Both are the same
Quickley's a 28 minute 6th Combo-guard, and Grimes a 22 minute SG
Brunson's a 28 minute PG, and D.Rose is a 22 minute PG
And Mcbride & Fournier & Hartenstein are the 11th/12th/13th player on the roster rotation throughout an 82 game season.
Tom Thibs are leading the Knicks to a 25-30 record .. SAD

Not to be that guy....but to be that guy this is a pet peeve of mine ever since Jason Kidd made the same mistake in an interview when he was with the nets....a 360 turn brings you right back where you were. You mean a 180 degree turn.

I also disagree with the general statement on Quickley. Before he was just a shooter. His passing now is eons better than his previous seasons. But before recently, if the ball was close enough for him to sniff leather, he was shooting.

IMO I think him using 360 degrees is appropriate because most of his posts points generally use circular reasoning anyway .

My pet peeve is the lack of logic applied to an argument.....for instance, he wants to cut Randle's minutes and offers Hart as an option who he then labels as the 13th man on the roster. So his logic is to potentially supplement his Top 1 or 2 producer's minutes with what he is calling an end of bench guy.

I don’t know how we went from the beginning of the season where the ball was moving freely and we were getting easy buckets to where we are now. The games and the team were so fun to watch. Now most possessions look like a rock fight and devolve into iso ball. The games are fairly boring now. The offence is so predictable and games are settled by runs and scoring droughts. It seems it started to get worse around the time Allstar voting started. I’m all for our big 3 getting recognition but this brand of basketball is tiresome. I don’t blame the coach, I blame the players and their egos.

GustavBahler wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Nalod wrote:In the hindsight thing, moving up for Duarte would have been a mistake.
Maybe we do a Toppin for Duarte trade as the need is there.
Is it that Thibs don’t trust some guys, or have some guys not earned that trust?

Toppin for Duarte has been a commonly mentioned possibility, but we would be trading one rotation player for another which doesn’t solve the problem. An expanded idea would be Toppin and reddish for Duarte and Daniel Theis. Theis hasn’t played yet this year but is close. But he’s a guy who I can envision perfectly suited for a 12-14 mpg energy role behind Randle, plus being a defensive guy thibs can trust. And Duarte has been erratic this year but offers enough on both sides of the ball to play 20 mpg. IQ, Duarte, Theis (who can play both frontcourt positions defensively) and Hart, with Deuce as the 10th man for defensive purposes is a bench rotation I can buy. The question would be is if Indiana is willing to help us. They would have to drop out pretty well over the next couple weeks.

Daniel Theis hasn't played this season, out indefinitely with knee surgery. Also has 2 years beyond this one for contract.

That’s how desperate we are for playable players.

No it's just a lack of a good idea and fit. Obi just gotta play better

Maybe Obi isn't that good. He moves without the ball well and runs the floor. What else does he do well? Can he shoot? Not really. Is he a good passer? No again. Ball handling?.... Shot creation?..... He isn't a skilled basketball player. I get it, he was a Knick fan growing up so everyone on here loves him. That doesn't win basketball games. I always see "We need to run plays for him". Everyone in the NBA can score 20 if you are drawing up plays for them. What can he do to create offense? Why does he deserve to be the focal point of the team offensively when his true shooting this season is 51.9%?

Dont know if you watched this game. Yes, it was late in the season. Yes, a lot of points off of alley oops.

Yet there are also points scored from Obi creating his own shot. Look at the level of difficulty of some of those drives. They were from near the center of the arc, Obi wasnt operating from the corner like he usually does. Looks better when he isnt stuck in the corner for most of the game.

Unfortunately, we may never see this version of Obi, again, in a Knick uniform as long as Thibs and Randle are here. @ the 15 second mark of the video you posted, Clyde pointed out a newspaper article and quoted Obi as saying the difference in his play towards the end of last season was confidence.

I haven't been able to catch as many games this year because I'm taking a couple of courses for work, but, I did catch most of the Wizards game and clearly, Obi's confidence looks shattered. Since Obi returned from his injury, he's averaging 11 minutes per game! For all of the progress Obi made to close last season, it appears that he is back to square 1, (his rookie season) when he was simply being used a warm body to soak up a few minutes while Randle got a quick breather. I think Obi see's the writing on the wall and its shame because he showed some promise last year.

I get it, some of this is on Obi. He needs to be more aggressive when he's out there and Randle is playing better than he did last year, but on the nights when he doesn't have it going, it would be nice to see Obi, not only get extended mins, but actually get involved in the offense a little. But then again, its difficult to get involved in a offense that is iso-heavy and littered with guys more interested in calling their own number.

Uptown wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Nalod wrote:In the hindsight thing, moving up for Duarte would have been a mistake.
Maybe we do a Toppin for Duarte trade as the need is there.
Is it that Thibs don’t trust some guys, or have some guys not earned that trust?

Toppin for Duarte has been a commonly mentioned possibility, but we would be trading one rotation player for another which doesn’t solve the problem. An expanded idea would be Toppin and reddish for Duarte and Daniel Theis. Theis hasn’t played yet this year but is close. But he’s a guy who I can envision perfectly suited for a 12-14 mpg energy role behind Randle, plus being a defensive guy thibs can trust. And Duarte has been erratic this year but offers enough on both sides of the ball to play 20 mpg. IQ, Duarte, Theis (who can play both frontcourt positions defensively) and Hart, with Deuce as the 10th man for defensive purposes is a bench rotation I can buy. The question would be is if Indiana is willing to help us. They would have to drop out pretty well over the next couple weeks.

Daniel Theis hasn't played this season, out indefinitely with knee surgery. Also has 2 years beyond this one for contract.

That’s how desperate we are for playable players.

No it's just a lack of a good idea and fit. Obi just gotta play better

Maybe Obi isn't that good. He moves without the ball well and runs the floor. What else does he do well? Can he shoot? Not really. Is he a good passer? No again. Ball handling?.... Shot creation?..... He isn't a skilled basketball player. I get it, he was a Knick fan growing up so everyone on here loves him. That doesn't win basketball games. I always see "We need to run plays for him". Everyone in the NBA can score 20 if you are drawing up plays for them. What can he do to create offense? Why does he deserve to be the focal point of the team offensively when his true shooting this season is 51.9%?

Dont know if you watched this game. Yes, it was late in the season. Yes, a lot of points off of alley oops.

Yet there are also points scored from Obi creating his own shot. Look at the level of difficulty of some of those drives. They were from near the center of the arc, Obi wasnt operating from the corner like he usually does. Looks better when he isnt stuck in the corner for most of the game.

Unfortunately, we may never see this version of Obi, again, in a Knick uniform as long as Thibs and Randle are here. @ the 15 second mark of the video you posted, Clyde pointed out a newspaper article and quoted Obi as saying the difference in his play towards the end of last season was confidence.

I haven't been able to catch as many games this year because I'm taking a couple of courses for work, but, I did catch most of the Wizards game and clearly, Obi's confidence looks shattered. Since Obi returned from his injury, he's averaging 11 minutes per game! For all of the progress Obi made to close last season, it appears that he is back to square 1, (his rookie season) when he was simply being used a warm body to soak up a few minutes while Randle got a quick breather. I think Obi see's the writing on the wall and its shame because he showed some promise last year.

I get it, some of this is on Obi. He needs to be more aggressive when he's out there and Randle is playing better than he did last year, but on the nights when he doesn't have it going, it would be nice to see Obi, not only get extended mins, but actually get involved in the offense a little. But then again, its difficult to get involved in a offense that is iso-heavy and littered with guys more interested in calling their own number.

It's all on Obi. He wants to run around like a gazelle and jump. He plays softer than anyone on this team. I see 190lb guards blocking him out under the basket. I just don't get how someone his size can be so weak and afraid of contact

Maybe Thibs goes ultra old school and uses a 4 man rotation and bans his players from taking 3 pointers

Rookie wrote:

Uptown wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Nalod wrote:In the hindsight thing, moving up for Duarte would have been a mistake.
Maybe we do a Toppin for Duarte trade as the need is there.
Is it that Thibs don’t trust some guys, or have some guys not earned that trust?

Toppin for Duarte has been a commonly mentioned possibility, but we would be trading one rotation player for another which doesn’t solve the problem. An expanded idea would be Toppin and reddish for Duarte and Daniel Theis. Theis hasn’t played yet this year but is close. But he’s a guy who I can envision perfectly suited for a 12-14 mpg energy role behind Randle, plus being a defensive guy thibs can trust. And Duarte has been erratic this year but offers enough on both sides of the ball to play 20 mpg. IQ, Duarte, Theis (who can play both frontcourt positions defensively) and Hart, with Deuce as the 10th man for defensive purposes is a bench rotation I can buy. The question would be is if Indiana is willing to help us. They would have to drop out pretty well over the next couple weeks.

Daniel Theis hasn't played this season, out indefinitely with knee surgery. Also has 2 years beyond this one for contract.

That’s how desperate we are for playable players.

No it's just a lack of a good idea and fit. Obi just gotta play better

Maybe Obi isn't that good. He moves without the ball well and runs the floor. What else does he do well? Can he shoot? Not really. Is he a good passer? No again. Ball handling?.... Shot creation?..... He isn't a skilled basketball player. I get it, he was a Knick fan growing up so everyone on here loves him. That doesn't win basketball games. I always see "We need to run plays for him". Everyone in the NBA can score 20 if you are drawing up plays for them. What can he do to create offense? Why does he deserve to be the focal point of the team offensively when his true shooting this season is 51.9%?

Dont know if you watched this game. Yes, it was late in the season. Yes, a lot of points off of alley oops.

Yet there are also points scored from Obi creating his own shot. Look at the level of difficulty of some of those drives. They were from near the center of the arc, Obi wasnt operating from the corner like he usually does. Looks better when he isnt stuck in the corner for most of the game.

Unfortunately, we may never see this version of Obi, again, in a Knick uniform as long as Thibs and Randle are here. @ the 15 second mark of the video you posted, Clyde pointed out a newspaper article and quoted Obi as saying the difference in his play towards the end of last season was confidence.

I haven't been able to catch as many games this year because I'm taking a couple of courses for work, but, I did catch most of the Wizards game and clearly, Obi's confidence looks shattered. Since Obi returned from his injury, he's averaging 11 minutes per game! For all of the progress Obi made to close last season, it appears that he is back to square 1, (his rookie season) when he was simply being used a warm body to soak up a few minutes while Randle got a quick breather. I think Obi see's the writing on the wall and its shame because he showed some promise last year.

I get it, some of this is on Obi. He needs to be more aggressive when he's out there and Randle is playing better than he did last year, but on the nights when he doesn't have it going, it would be nice to see Obi, not only get extended mins, but actually get involved in the offense a little. But then again, its difficult to get involved in a offense that is iso-heavy and littered with guys more interested in calling their own number.

It's all on Obi. He wants to run around like a gazelle and jump. He plays softer than anyone on this team. I see 190lb guards blocking him out under the basket. I just don't get how someone his size can be so weak and afraid of contact

Some of it is on Obi, no doubt. Still showing rust. But its also on the coach to put their players in the best position to succeed. I dont believe Obi's current role in this offense accomplishes that.

Uptown wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Nalod wrote:In the hindsight thing, moving up for Duarte would have been a mistake.
Maybe we do a Toppin for Duarte trade as the need is there.
Is it that Thibs don’t trust some guys, or have some guys not earned that trust?

Toppin for Duarte has been a commonly mentioned possibility, but we would be trading one rotation player for another which doesn’t solve the problem. An expanded idea would be Toppin and reddish for Duarte and Daniel Theis. Theis hasn’t played yet this year but is close. But he’s a guy who I can envision perfectly suited for a 12-14 mpg energy role behind Randle, plus being a defensive guy thibs can trust. And Duarte has been erratic this year but offers enough on both sides of the ball to play 20 mpg. IQ, Duarte, Theis (who can play both frontcourt positions defensively) and Hart, with Deuce as the 10th man for defensive purposes is a bench rotation I can buy. The question would be is if Indiana is willing to help us. They would have to drop out pretty well over the next couple weeks.

Daniel Theis hasn't played this season, out indefinitely with knee surgery. Also has 2 years beyond this one for contract.

That’s how desperate we are for playable players.

No it's just a lack of a good idea and fit. Obi just gotta play better

Maybe Obi isn't that good. He moves without the ball well and runs the floor. What else does he do well? Can he shoot? Not really. Is he a good passer? No again. Ball handling?.... Shot creation?..... He isn't a skilled basketball player. I get it, he was a Knick fan growing up so everyone on here loves him. That doesn't win basketball games. I always see "We need to run plays for him". Everyone in the NBA can score 20 if you are drawing up plays for them. What can he do to create offense? Why does he deserve to be the focal point of the team offensively when his true shooting this season is 51.9%?

Dont know if you watched this game. Yes, it was late in the season. Yes, a lot of points off of alley oops.

Yet there are also points scored from Obi creating his own shot. Look at the level of difficulty of some of those drives. They were from near the center of the arc, Obi wasnt operating from the corner like he usually does. Looks better when he isnt stuck in the corner for most of the game.

Unfortunately, we may never see this version of Obi, again, in a Knick uniform as long as Thibs and Randle are here. @ the 15 second mark of the video you posted, Clyde pointed out a newspaper article and quoted Obi as saying the difference in his play towards the end of last season was confidence.

I'm taking a couple of courses for work, but, I did catch most of the Wizards game and clearly, Obi's confidence looks shattered. Since Obi returned from his injury, he's averaging 11 minutes per game! For all of the progress Obi made to close last season, it appears that he is back to square 1, (his rookie season) when he was simply being used a warm body to soak up a few minutes while Randle got a quick breather. I think Obi see's the writing on the wall and its shame because he showed some promise last year.

I get it, some of this is on Obi. He needs to be more aggressive when he's out there and Randle is playing better than he did last year, but on the nights when he doesn't have it going, it would be nice to see Obi, not only get extended mins, but actually get involved in the offense a little. But then again, its difficult to get involved in a offense that is iso-heavy and littered with guys more interested in calling their own number.

Interesting courses?