BigDaddyG wrote:franco12 wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:GustavBahler wrote:A couple of weeks ago I would have agreed with you Briggs. Im seeing more aggressive play. Doing more of the little things. Taking more shot attempts, more putbacks. Isnt hitting his shots yet, but he really hasnt been taking that many. I'd give that part a little time. We have three bigs who dont do very much scoring. Hartenstein isnt a scoring center. He's more of a glue guy. Yes Id like to see him start hitting the 3, but I will take more scoring in the paint. Not expecting a big increase, but those 2pters should start falling.
If we had a center who could get buckets, I doubt we would be expecting Hartenstein to be that guy. Dont believe the FO really believed he was.
I won't knock Hart's effort. But he just doesn't seem effective in Thibs scheme. Guys don't seem to respect him when they drive into the paint and he seems to get dislodged too easily on the box out. It's about fit and Thibs doesn't seem likely to bend on this.
Hart is on par with his career numbers. He is just not hitting shots.
He is taking a bit under one less shot per game.
His rebounding is up. Total assists are basically the same.
But as mentioned, shooting percentages are down.
For that reason, disagree that it's Thibs system. Easy to blame the coach.
Think some fans expect players to play like their highlight reels without looking at their true production. Watching Clip games last year, I saw a guy who was a blue collar player. Nothing great but did not come in and shit the bed. Same thing he is doing now. Anyone that expected more should have watched a few of his games.
I prefer we keep Sims and trade Hart for a more impactful piece.
Hart's numbers are down across the board aside from rebounding and FT%. His 2 point FG% is down from his career and is below average for the center position overall. Don't look at raw assist numbers.Look at assist %. He's down to 5% from being in the 20s. I think Thibs system is absolutely playing a role in his performance. He's not a good fit. You could do a lot worse as far backup centers, true. But it's clear he's not playing to his strength.
Time to fire Thibs?
I mean, I wouldn't shake things up over the backup center useage. I do think the FO needs to take a long look at how their going to proceed going forward.
Well- it's not just about the back up center - to me it points to everything and everyone.
Hartenstein has been a bust. He was supposed to be this playmaking stretch 5 and he doesn't even try to spread the floor and we don't put him in position to make plays. I like Sims a lot more and would look to trade Hartenstein in the next few weeks.
SergioNYK wrote:Hartenstein has been a bust. He was supposed to be this playmaking stretch 5 and he doesn't even try to spread the floor and we don't put him in position to make plays. I like Sims a lot more and would look to trade Hartenstein in the next few weeks.
Sims is better and he only makes 1 mm. Sims perfect third center— we’re getting super value from him. That being said his man was used to double team our premium players on the pass.
SergioNYK wrote:Hartenstein has been a bust. He was supposed to be this playmaking stretch 5 and he doesn't even try to spread the floor and we don't put him in position to make plays. I like Sims a lot more and would look to trade Hartenstein in the next few weeks.
I think the idea of Hart as a floor spacer was overblown. It seemed like a part of his game that burgeoning, but I never considered it a given. I'd be lying if I said I didn't expect a little bit more than he's produced from three tho. I did expect more actions from the high post.
BigDaddyG wrote:SergioNYK wrote:Hartenstein has been a bust. He was supposed to be this playmaking stretch 5 and he doesn't even try to spread the floor and we don't put him in position to make plays. I like Sims a lot more and would look to trade Hartenstein in the next few weeks.
I think the idea of Hart as a floor spacer was overblown. It seemed like a part of his game that burgeoning, but I never considered it a given. I'd be lying if I said I didn't expect a little bit more than he's produced from three tho. I did expect more actions from the high post.
His shooting % from three last season was echoed as being really good. He made 30 shots from their.
His high post passing was an asset and it was early on. can't say why but if his defender backs down that is gone and evidently Thibs don't want him shooting there.
Thus, he has yet blow us away outside of the first few games and his lovely wife to be.
But remember when he was hailed as "Maybe we should start him!!!" hype early on?
At 8mm for two years he is an ok back up? What does 8MM buy these days?
Looking back at our first game of the season I thought Hartensteing would be a good fit for us. He was making plays out of the pivot and hit the 3 allowing for spacing. All those qualities seem to be missing in his game now. Combining that with his lack of jumping has me wonering if he is being coached to do things differently. Looks like he being asked to just stay in the dunker spot and get lobs, definitely lot his game.
JesseDark wrote:Looking back at our first game of the season I thought Hartensteing would be a good fit for us. He was making plays out of the pivot and hit the 3 allowing for spacing. All those qualities seem to be missing in his game now. Combining that with his lack of jumping has me wonering if he is being coached to do things differently. Looks like he being asked to just stay in the dunker spot and get lobs, definitely lot his game.
That certainly does seem to be the case
Hart been reading his critics! Great game tonite!!!
Nalod wrote:Hart been reading his critics! Great game tonite!!!
It’s the anti Briggs hex. Works every time 
I guess now we can’t trade him.
He’s been playing through a foot injury and says he’s feeling better. Had some really big plays last night. We’d all like to trade him for a red Solo cup but maybe hold off a minute.
So when we added Hart during the summer I saw some stats saying he was top 5 (maybe 1) in terms of opponents shooting % at the rim.
A few weeks ago in the midst of his poor showings here - I saw another stat that ranked him very high again this year in opponents shooting % at the rim when he defends.
I think we all get enamored with blocked shots but Hart consistently puts his hands up and maintains verticality — despite him rarely getting the benefit of the whistle maybe he is doing better vs what our eyes are telling us.
Other point I’ll make is that Hart is very active on both boards (even though he doesn’t always grab the board) and he is almost always in the right place positionally defensively but I wonder if he isn’t overdoing Thibs drop coverage and should be a little higher defensively.
Knicks go over top of most every perimeter screen - forcing the ball handler inside the 3 and by dropping the center is 1 taking away the lob but 2 inviting a mid range shot — issue against ATL for example the mid range attempts were too easy/short.
In any event hope Hart starts to find a groove and work out - seems like a good egg and a good teammate
BRIGGS wrote:Nalod wrote:Hart been reading his critics! Great game tonite!!!
It’s the anti Briggs hex. Works every time
Can you somehow hate on McBride's shooting and help a brother out? Or at least let him know he is about to be traded or something?
martin wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Nalod wrote:Hart been reading his critics! Great game tonite!!!
It’s the anti Briggs hex. Works every time
Can you somehow hate on McBride's shooting and help a brother out? Or at least let him know he is about to be traded or something?
He’s not making 8 million like hartenstein. I’ve quietly rooted for miles to come through but he’s way below the Mendoza line. He’s out there for defense but atleast give us 35% from 3. He may end up as a trade deadline casualty imho. We need improvement from his position — so it’s now or never time
BRIGGS wrote:martin wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Nalod wrote:Hart been reading his critics! Great game tonite!!!
It’s the anti Briggs hex. Works every time
Can you somehow hate on McBride's shooting and help a brother out? Or at least let him know he is about to be traded or something?
He’s not making 8 million like hartenstein. I’ve quietly rooted for miles to come through but he’s way below the Mendoza line. He’s out there for defense but atleast give us 35% from 3. He may end up as a trade deadline casualty imho. We need improvement from his position — so it’s now or never time
Yeah. I do think this play is starting to pick up. Gotta stay confident
Popper hinting at Hart playing through injury
https://www.newsday.com/sports/basketbal...
Hartenstein doesn’t need to skim through social media or listen to the 18,612 screaming fans at Madison Square Garden to know what it meant to him — or the Knicks — to come up with a big moment.“It’s big. It’s kind of what I came here for,” Hartenstein said after the game. “I know for myself if I’m not playing as good as I’m supposed to be playing I feel like I’m kind of letting the fans down, the city down a little bit. But I’m just going to keep getting better because I know I can do it. So keep getting better and keep representing for New York.
“I think that’s the main thing. I go into every game and try to not just represent for myself, but also for New York . . . I mean, I played in Europe so we take pride in the city. I take pride in it. I knew I wasn’t playing as good as I’m supposed to. I’m going to keep trying to build up that.”
The spirit may be appreciated by the fan base, but it has been a hard road for Hartenstein to find his place since joining the team as a free agent in the summer. On paper, the two-year, $16 million deal made perfect sense — a rim-protecting center with a far different offensive game to serve as a backup to Mitchell Robinson.
But the defense and athleticism didn’t show as he struggled to deal with a nagging Achilles injury, and his offense seemed lost in the iso-heavy Knicks scheme. He often seemed to look helpless as he searched with his passing ability for a cutter and no one ever moved. In the last four games he has shown at least a spring in getting to the rim, which is a timely step forward with Robinson sidelined by a fractured right thumb.
“Just getting back to how I normally play defense,” he said. “That’s the main thing. It’s not like I’m learning how to play defense or I haven’t done it before. It’s more like a body thing. Getting back to my body feeling better, feel more comfortable. Getting slowly there."
