Knicks · How Good Is OG Anunoby Really? (page 4)
BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:IQ seems to be developing off the bench quite nicely. RJ can't do the same?I wouldn't have a problem with it personally, but the optics are a little different when you make $26M a year. RJ is making small improvements and is creeping toward league average metrics for a wing. Let's hope he keeps improving to the point where it stops becoming an issue, one way or the other.
My personal opinion about RJ aside, I think it would actually HELP his development. He would literally be the focus of a unit without Randle mucking things up.
I actually think RJ is the one guy who would be an ideal candidate in terms of optics. He wouldn't like it of course but he is a good soldier type. And he has his contract, so he can't really do much about it.
It gets him more with IQ, Deuce, RJ, ?, Hart. Lots more space to work with.
martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:IQ seems to be developing off the bench quite nicely. RJ can't do the same?I wouldn't have a problem with it personally, but the optics are a little different when you make $26M a year. RJ is making small improvements and is creeping toward league average metrics for a wing. Let's hope he keeps improving to the point where it stops becoming an issue, one way or the other.
My personal opinion about RJ aside, I think it would actually HELP his development. He would literally be the focus of a unit without Randle mucking things up.
I actually think RJ is the one guy who would be an ideal candidate in terms of optics. He wouldn't like it of course but he is a good soldier type. And he has his contract, so he can't really do much about it.
It gets him more with IQ, Deuce, RJ, ?, Hart. Lots more space to work with.
Eh, if I'm a GM and you're trying to trade me RJ, I'm using any benching to knock off value off the bat. One of our mid 3 will have to go if the front office is serious about catching one of the big fish and, from a win now perspective, RJ is the likely candidate. I don't think this is the right course of action and believe the team should still be in the asset collection stage, but I'm not the GM. Anyway, I think they're trying to pump and dump RJ.
BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:IQ seems to be developing off the bench quite nicely. RJ can't do the same?I wouldn't have a problem with it personally, but the optics are a little different when you make $26M a year. RJ is making small improvements and is creeping toward league average metrics for a wing. Let's hope he keeps improving to the point where it stops becoming an issue, one way or the other.
My personal opinion about RJ aside, I think it would actually HELP his development. He would literally be the focus of a unit without Randle mucking things up.
I actually think RJ is the one guy who would be an ideal candidate in terms of optics. He wouldn't like it of course but he is a good soldier type. And he has his contract, so he can't really do much about it.
It gets him more with IQ, Deuce, RJ, ?, Hart. Lots more space to work with.
Eh, if I'm a GM and you're trying to trade me RJ, I'm using any benching to knock off value off the bat. One of our mid 3 will have to go if the front office is serious about catching one of the big fish and, from a win now perspective, RJ is the likely candidate. I don't think this is the right course of action and believe the team should still be in the asset collection stage, but I'm not the GM. Anyway, I think they're trying to pump and dump RJ.
Same
As for his value? I doubt if the team was kicking ass with him off the bench it would impede his value.
WE are not GM's and don't know how to think as one. be interesting to know how they debate value in trade talk!
At the same time we paying him a big salary and in part for potential.
Im rooting for a nice kid to get his consistancy.
Im rooting for OBI to smile and kick it up one notch.
Im rooting for Duece to hit a fucking shot!
Im rooting for IQ to keep up the good work!
And if they get traded better to do it with value in return!
martin wrote:OG is a really valuable player in the league, but you have to manage the cost vs. upside and improvement.BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:IQ seems to be developing off the bench quite nicely. RJ can't do the same?I wouldn't have a problem with it personally, but the optics are a little different when you make $26M a year. RJ is making small improvements and is creeping toward league average metrics for a wing. Let's hope he keeps improving to the point where it stops becoming an issue, one way or the other.
My personal opinion about RJ aside, I think it would actually HELP his development. He would literally be the focus of a unit without Randle mucking things up.
I actually think RJ is the one guy who would be an ideal candidate in terms of optics. He wouldn't like it of course but he is a good soldier type. And he has his contract, so he can't really do much about it.
It gets him more with IQ, Deuce, RJ, ?, Hart. Lots more space to work with.
Eh, if I'm a GM and you're trying to trade me RJ, I'm using any benching to knock off value off the bat. One of our mid 3 will have to go if the front office is serious about catching one of the big fish and, from a win now perspective, RJ is the likely candidate. I don't think this is the right course of action and believe the team should still be in the asset collection stage, but I'm not the GM. Anyway, I think they're trying to pump and dump RJ.Same
I think my best offers would be Obi/Cam and 2 of the 3 Wash/Det/Milw FRPs. Those picks are NOT trash and have the kind of declining protecting that could end up being good late lottery picks. Maybe if they are hard for something in this draft the WORST of the NY/Dallas 2023 FRPs.
That puts OG at SF, moves RJ to SG and really helps our bench with IQ/Grimes coming off LOOKING for shots.
martin wrote:For me, playing Obi and Randle together would never really work. Maybe it's good in stretches but only from an offensive standpoint.A lineup of Randle, OG, RJ, Grimes and IQ/Brunson? That works better IMHO. You can go small and still have defenders all around.
If you were playing Obi/Randle with OG —- that’s a lot better vs with RJ —- yes you lose size/shot-blocking but you gain in other areas - same trade offs much of the NBA makes when going small.
Just don’t think Tom believes in Obi
fishmike wrote:martin wrote:OG is a really valuable player in the league, but you have to manage the cost vs. upside and improvement.BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:IQ seems to be developing off the bench quite nicely. RJ can't do the same?I wouldn't have a problem with it personally, but the optics are a little different when you make $26M a year. RJ is making small improvements and is creeping toward league average metrics for a wing. Let's hope he keeps improving to the point where it stops becoming an issue, one way or the other.
My personal opinion about RJ aside, I think it would actually HELP his development. He would literally be the focus of a unit without Randle mucking things up.
I actually think RJ is the one guy who would be an ideal candidate in terms of optics. He wouldn't like it of course but he is a good soldier type. And he has his contract, so he can't really do much about it.
It gets him more with IQ, Deuce, RJ, ?, Hart. Lots more space to work with.
Eh, if I'm a GM and you're trying to trade me RJ, I'm using any benching to knock off value off the bat. One of our mid 3 will have to go if the front office is serious about catching one of the big fish and, from a win now perspective, RJ is the likely candidate. I don't think this is the right course of action and believe the team should still be in the asset collection stage, but I'm not the GM. Anyway, I think they're trying to pump and dump RJ.Same
I think my best offers would be Obi/Cam and 2 of the 3 Wash/Det/Milw FRPs. Those picks are NOT trash and have the kind of declining protecting that could end up being good late lottery picks. Maybe if they are hard for something in this draft the WORST of the NY/Dallas 2023 FRPs.
That puts OG at SF, moves RJ to SG and really helps our bench with IQ/Grimes coming off LOOKING for shots.
Those picks aren't trash, but the Gobert trade really effed up the market and I think that and unprotected picks would have to be tossed in for the time being. It's Masai we're dealing with.
BigDaddyG wrote:fishmike wrote:martin wrote:OG is a really valuable player in the league, but you have to manage the cost vs. upside and improvement.BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:IQ seems to be developing off the bench quite nicely. RJ can't do the same?I wouldn't have a problem with it personally, but the optics are a little different when you make $26M a year. RJ is making small improvements and is creeping toward league average metrics for a wing. Let's hope he keeps improving to the point where it stops becoming an issue, one way or the other.
My personal opinion about RJ aside, I think it would actually HELP his development. He would literally be the focus of a unit without Randle mucking things up.
I actually think RJ is the one guy who would be an ideal candidate in terms of optics. He wouldn't like it of course but he is a good soldier type. And he has his contract, so he can't really do much about it.
It gets him more with IQ, Deuce, RJ, ?, Hart. Lots more space to work with.
Eh, if I'm a GM and you're trying to trade me RJ, I'm using any benching to knock off value off the bat. One of our mid 3 will have to go if the front office is serious about catching one of the big fish and, from a win now perspective, RJ is the likely candidate. I don't think this is the right course of action and believe the team should still be in the asset collection stage, but I'm not the GM. Anyway, I think they're trying to pump and dump RJ.Same
I think my best offers would be Obi/Cam and 2 of the 3 Wash/Det/Milw FRPs. Those picks are NOT trash and have the kind of declining protecting that could end up being good late lottery picks. Maybe if they are hard for something in this draft the WORST of the NY/Dallas 2023 FRPs.
That puts OG at SF, moves RJ to SG and really helps our bench with IQ/Grimes coming off LOOKING for shots.
Those picks aren't trash, but the Gobert trade really effed up the market and I think that and unprotected picks would have to be tossed in for the time being. It's Masai we're dealing with.
is there a team willing to do that for OG? You have to view him as a "last piece" type of thing. I think post-Gobert every agrees that was a bad trade and Gobert is also surely a tier above OG. 2-3 FRPs and Obi
LivingLegend wrote:martin wrote:For me, playing Obi and Randle together would never really work. Maybe it's good in stretches but only from an offensive standpoint.A lineup of Randle, OG, RJ, Grimes and IQ/Brunson? That works better IMHO. You can go small and still have defenders all around.
If you were playing Obi/Randle with OG —- that’s a lot better vs with RJ —- yes you lose size/shot-blocking but you gain in other areas - same trade offs much of the NBA makes when going small.
Just don’t think Tom believes in Obi
Even Obi didn't believe in Obi his first year in the league 
Knixkik wrote:The more games the Knicks win like Boston and Cleveland, the more the front office will look to find ways to compete against them in a playoff series. Knicks aren’t getting a Tatum, Embiid, KD level player. So how do they match up? Probably thinking they can add OG and load up on 2-way wings and guys who give the best chance to guard them. OG and Grimes give you 2 elite defenders on the wing. While I don’t believe he’s this major impact guy, Knicks might buy him as a system fit. The Drose contract plus any combination of picks really can’t be ruled out, either at the deadline or the nba draft.
That’s a good way to say it but I’ll try to tweak: he is not a major impact guy offensively but he can be a high level or perhaps even elite level defensive system guy who will fit in offensively.
martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:The more games the Knicks win like Boston and Cleveland, the more the front office will look to find ways to compete against them in a playoff series. Knicks aren’t getting a Tatum, Embiid, KD level player. So how do they match up? Probably thinking they can add OG and load up on 2-way wings and guys who give the best chance to guard them. OG and Grimes give you 2 elite defenders on the wing. While I don’t believe he’s this major impact guy, Knicks might buy him as a system fit. The Drose contract plus any combination of picks really can’t be ruled out, either at the deadline or the nba draft.That’s a good way to say it but I’ll try to tweak: he is not a major impact guy offensively but he can be a high level or perhaps even elite level defensive system guy who will fit in offensively.
Yes I agree. I was just trying to articulate he’s not a star. But for the Knicks at the point in time that may not matter because of what they are looking to get from him. Like you said, major defensive player who should fit in offensively without disrupting what’s working.
Knixkik wrote:The more games the Knicks win like Boston and Cleveland, the more the front office will look to find ways to compete against them in a playoff series. Knicks aren’t getting a Tatum, Embiid, KD level player. So how do they match up? Probably thinking they can add OG and load up on 2-way wings and guys who give the best chance to guard them. OG and Grimes give you 2 elite defenders on the wing. While I don’t believe he’s this major impact guy, Knicks might buy him as a system fit. The Drose contract plus any combination of picks really can’t be ruled out, either at the deadline or the nba draft.
He gives you low usage with very good, albeit not elite shooting. He gives the Knicks another elite wing defender to throw out there and you can never have enough 2-way wings. Thibs will love him. He is way more useful on a Thibs team than Fournier.
Grimes or IQ, Obi, and the Dallas pick. IQ is legit, OBI still a prospect, and a mid first rounder. Not bad for a 20s pick in OG. And 5 years of service. Got a chip in that time also.
Media talks of trading VanVleet?
I don’t know where Raptors are going, not my problem. OG is good, but should not command crazy price.
IF Gorbert messed the market, don’t mean we have to propagate the madness further. But thats on Ujiri to decide and what he can extract from the market. Don’t mean we have to go there.
Going to have to give up somthing to get him. We have to pay him and if IQ is traded he is trending in the 15-20 mil arena and perhaps starting. With Brunson here he does not move past back up and at 6-3 I don’t see him starting as the 2.
Grimes has hit the wall for now. IQ is playing like a man on mission to be paid. Nalod does not have to pick one or the other. Not my job. I like them both. Im sure this provides fans good fodder to get angry about something in hindsight.
As someone bought up, the KP trade gave us many gifts AND the dallas pick upcoming. Takes time to see things thru.
Nalod would have told. You then you need 5 years to look back and see how it unfolded. But here we are with Dallas and Knicks about the same record. I recall Denver and knicks post melo trade had some unusual parallels as well. Year we won 54 games, they won 57 and Karl was COTY. Naturally its not that simple, but sometimes amusing.
Nalod wrote:Lets be real. One of IQ or Grimes stays in this scenario. Duece stays, and we draft more yoot to up and come.
Grimes or IQ, Obi, and the Dallas pick. IQ is legit, OBI still a prospect, and a mid first rounder. Not bad for a 20s pick in OG. And 5 years of service. Got a chip in that time also.
Media talks of trading VanVleet?
I don’t know where Raptors are going, not my problem. OG is good, but should not command crazy price.
IF Gorbert messed the market, don’t mean we have to propagate the madness further. But thats on Ujiri to decide and what he can extract from the market. Don’t mean we have to go there.
Going to have to give up somthing to get him. We have to pay him and if IQ is traded he is trending in the 15-20 mil arena and perhaps starting. With Brunson here he does not move past back up and at 6-3 I don’t see him starting as the 2.
Grimes has hit the wall for now. IQ is playing like a man on mission to be paid. Nalod does not have to pick one or the other. Not my job. I like them both. Im sure this provides fans good fodder to get angry about something in hindsight.
As someone bought up, the KP trade gave us many gifts AND the dallas pick upcoming. Takes time to see things thru.
Nalod would have told. You then you need 5 years to look back and see how it unfolded. But here we are with Dallas and Knicks about the same record. I recall Denver and knicks post melo trade had some unusual parallels as well. Year we won 54 games, they won 57 and Karl was COTY. Naturally its not that simple, but sometimes amusing.
Nope, the Knicks won't consider any trade with Grimes or IQ in it for a player like OG. Toronto can ask all they want but it ain't happening. No way no how.
Knicks wouldn't even consider giving up Grimes in Donovan trade and IQ has separated himself this year.
martin wrote:Nope, the Knicks won't consider any trade with Grimes or IQ in it for a player like OG. Toronto can ask all they want but it ain't happening. No way no how.Knicks wouldn't even consider giving up Grimes in Donovan trade and IQ has separated himself this year.
Well said. And good points too (Donovan Mitchell trade request etc).
I think it makes 0 sense to take 1 step back (getting rid of an IQ/Grimes) just in order to take 1 step forward (getting OG).
The whole purpose is to trade away draft picks in order to improve the roster, not by weakening the roster in order to (then) add a player.
Imo that's the definition of treadmilling...
the non knicks picks are not enough for og. he's basically a starter on any team in the league. he can guard 1-5 and hit 3's (regardless of this year's %). and i think having a rim protector like mitch would make og's defense even more deadly.
masai doesn't really trade for just future picks tho - especially for legit players (unlike bargs). he'll want some young talent in return.
so my guess is if there is a deal to be made, it will involve some of your bench guys (quickley/obi/etc along with picks).
so from a team building POV, what's more important for the knicks and what weaknesses can they address easier? it seems to me that having a starter of his caliber is a tougher get than filling out the bench. elite 3&D guys are not easy to get. you then try to piece together a bench with the MLE and expirings. and in the playoffs, you play your best guys the most minutes so having a deep bench isn't super required - but having a good bench IS required for the regular season.
with all that said, i have no clue what masai plans to do this deadline. he could do nothing and wait till the summer to figure things out. or he can trade a few guys. he won't go scorched earth tear down tho.
i know he's a big og guy so he won't just dump him. a caveat here is that we do have an in-house replacement in waiting with achiuwa unlike fred + gary who we don't have in-house replacements for.
my gut says one of fred + gary + og is traded this deadline but not all three. we have cap sheet issues in another year and we won't go into luxury for a non-elite squad. the other 2 that's left could be dealt in the summer where more options would be avialable.
i think in today's nba, you have to capitalize when you have a chance to b/c there's so much variance. one injury and you could see yourself in the finals (bucks from 2021).
djsunyc wrote:there's a chance that the non-knicks first round picks y'all have don't convey (and become 2nds) or if they do convey, they are late firsts. the best knicks first rounders to trade are your own b/c you don't have any restrictions on them so they can be dealt unprotected.the non knicks picks are not enough for og. he's basically a starter on any team in the league. he can guard 1-5 and hit 3's (regardless of this year's %). and i think having a rim protector like mitch would make og's defense even more deadly.
masai doesn't really trade for just future picks tho - especially for legit players (unlike bargs). he'll want some young talent in return.
so my guess is if there is a deal to be made, it will involve some of your bench guys (quickley/obi/etc along with picks).
so from a team building POV, what's more important for the knicks and what weaknesses can they address easier? it seems to me that having a starter of his caliber is a tougher get than filling out the bench. elite 3&D guys are not easy to get. you then try to piece together a bench with the MLE and expirings. and in the playoffs, you play your best guys the most minutes so having a deep bench isn't super required - but having a good bench IS required for the regular season.
with all that said, i have no clue what masai plans to do this deadline. he could do nothing and wait till the summer to figure things out. or he can trade a few guys. he won't go scorched earth tear down tho.
i know he's a big og guy so he won't just dump him. a caveat here is that we do have an in-house replacement in waiting with achiuwa unlike fred + gary who we don't have in-house replacements for.
my gut says one of fred + gary + og is traded this deadline but not all three. we have cap sheet issues in another year and we won't go into luxury for a non-elite squad. the other 2 that's left could be dealt in the summer where more options would be avialable.
i think in today's nba, you have to capitalize when you have a chance to b/c there's so much variance. one injury and you could see yourself in the finals (bucks from 2021).
Thanks DJ, hope you are well.
What's your take on what OG's perspective is on his role on team in regards to his upcoming contract. Seems like there is talk about him not being satisfied with role and/or touches.
I'd guess that Masai would ask for one of the bench guys (and I'd also guess Knicks would not include IQ but yes on Obi) and Knicks would be OK also including a very interesting international flavor in Rokas just marinating in Barcelona; could be a good backup or at least a body depending how FVV shakes out.
i don't know whether i believe those rumors or if they came from og, klutch or someone else. when asked about it after the summer, he denied it but what else is he going to say?
he's best when he's a catch and shoot 3 point shooter or quick pull up. if he's asked to go into any iso-offensive situations, he gets clumsy and is prone to unforced turnovers like dribbling off his foot, or slipping etc.
he gets really low in his crouch when trying to get into an offensive move so he can be easy to block as well.
on defense, he's a beast - he literally can switch onto anyone and make their lives hell. we also play an aggressive defense which encourages going for steals/turnovers - and he plays that very well. trying to stop stars 1 on 1 is very tough for anyone and you're not going to stop it all but he is strong as a bull and can stick with the best guys on the other team.
from a personal fan standpoint, i like og, but don't "love" him. i respect everything he brings, but i think the reason why i don't have a connection to him like other players is b/c he was out for our entire chip playoff run. so i don't have those ingrained memories of him.
but he's really good and will raise the level of any team. i think masai would also be 100% ok waiting another year with og and figure it out later - he's not a free agent until summer 24.
Anunoby has been a key cog for Toronto this season, averaging 16.9 points, 5.5 rebounds and 2.0 assists per game. He's putting together an All-Defensive Team caliber campaign, averaging a career-high and league-leading 2.1 steals per game.
Regarding OG, or any other the notion of adding "Caruso" or "Lavine" without the cost factor or what it does to our cap is not the full picture.
Im reading "Rose restructure his contract".........Is that a thing? He has a club option with a 50% payout if not picked up. That would fall on any team picking him up.
Brunson/Lavine back court has a lot of firepower but chemistry is suspect? Maybe?
OG/Brunson/RJ are interchangeable as OG can guard the 2 as can RJ.
The price? Lets just say if IQ is as good as advertised his value should help. Im not saying "get rid of him". Its about OG and playing time.