Knicks · [Game Thread 1/26/23] Knicks at Celtics 7:30PM (page 9)

martin wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

martin wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:Oh and shout out to Obi for leading the team, somewhat misleadingly, in plus minus.

Ha and RJ with the shooting struggles but second in plus minus

I think the revealing stay is Robert Williams +\- Obi and RJ had a lot of court time with Williams out. Every time Williams sat the Knicks went on a run. That was pretty much true of the Celtics last season and the finals especially. Almost impossible
to quantify the value of good rim protection because it's not just about the difficulty of the makes but also how it affects what shots you take.

Big Mitch agrees with you

Most definitely. I'll even up the ante by pointing out the Knicks have shot the ball as well as they have any other time this season the past two games and came up with close, close wins. Robinson's work on the offensive boards has been a security blanket all season getting loads of extra opportunities and points.

Randle played defense a lot further from the basket covering shooters and Sims defensive rebounding was clutch. That being said, Celtics took a lot of shots at the rim, including a bunch of gimmes once their 3 point shooting cooled off.

Knicks needed every one tonight and it's a credit to Thibs for getting the right line ups out there all game.

martin wrote:Mid 4

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Don't forget Sims with 14 boards.

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joec32033 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:The only real negative was Grimes in the 4th. This keeps up, I hope IQ gets the nod to close.

Grimes did play some good defense on Jaylin and Tatum tho. Grimes has hit some clutch ones in the past so I'm not worried about the shooting.

Thats true

Grimes has a tough defensive assignment every game. He will grow into a solid 2 way player from this experience. It’s part of his development.

But 2nd unit led by iq stepped up big time. Starters and Bench was cooking. It’s all about our defense and rebounding battles.

Sorry but this is a BS double standard. Grimes makes mistakes in the clutch it's development (and he has made a lot). Barrett-who is the same age and has come through in the clutch more than most care to admit- makes mistakes and he gets pages of bashing. Julius makes mistakes in the clutch and the whole world goes crazy.

RJ & Randle were also picked #3 and #7 in their respective drafts- Both were supposed to be stars.

blkexec wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:The only real negative was Grimes in the 4th. This keeps up, I hope IQ gets the nod to close.

Grimes did play some good defense on Jaylin and Tatum tho. Grimes has hit some clutch ones in the past so I'm not worried about the shooting.

Thats true

Grimes has a tough defensive assignment every game. He will grow into a solid 2 way player from this experience. It’s part of his development.

But 2nd unit led by iq stepped up big time. Starters and Bench was cooking. It’s all about our defense and rebounding battles.

Sorry but this is a BS double standard. Grimes makes mistakes in the clutch it's development (and he has made a lot). Barrett-who is the same age and has come through in the clutch more than most care to admit- makes mistakes and he gets pages of bashing. Julius makes mistakes in the clutch and the whole world goes crazy.

I have no idea what your smoking today. Huh? What are you talking about.

If you want me to say when Randle (an nba vet) does a spin-turnover it’s development? No it’s a turnover. Stop turning the ball over.

RJ been clutch since Duke. Where the fuc u been?

I think you’re confused by a statement I made that RJ and Randle should split up unless the goal is just make the playoffs. RJ is better when he’s the man. So is Randle. Both are lead dogs.

RJ is a 4 yr starter. Grimes just got consistent PT this year and this is the first yr being a starter. RJ is who he is playing with Randle. Grimes is young in his nba career.

Are you really comparing grimes and RJ? They on different development levels. And all players are developing. So I don’t know what your talking about. I’m a RJ and Randle fan. Same with thibs. I might not like all 3 together on the same team. This is a team sport so I look at the bigger picture. Individually they are all solid players and coach.

Re-reading my post, I shouldn't have opened with the line I did because it made it seem like it was an attack aimed directly at you and it wasn't. It was a general observation.

I wasn't talking about you specifically, you just happened to make the comment about Grimes and I was making an observation. This comment triggered me because I talked earlier in the year specifically about Grimes' concerns in the clutch (lapses on D, poor IQ decisions, bad shots, bad turnovers-basically everything he DOESN'T do during a game) .

I would understand the Randle criticism, but everyone says he is not a main option, so why are main option expectations put on him?

This is where I part ways with what you said specifically. I'm glad you said RJ has been clutch since Duke. It's not like you just lose it. The RJ hate is so annoying (I am an admitted RJ guy), that people don't realize the stuff he does well, and it tiresome when the hate just borders on ignorant.

And yes I am also comparing Grimes and Barrett because both are 22, both have a lot of room to grow. I personally also judge these guys to the expectations I have for them. RJ is frustrating as hell with his finishing. I personally see a MUCH higher ceiling in Barrett than Grimes. I think Grimes is a very good defender, but not great (I still think he makes bad decisions) but is a better defender than RJ. I think they also are on different levels. I think Grimes is basically Starks without the crazy (a one or two time All-Star) while I think Barrett can be a perennial All-Star and at his very very best if everything goes right, I compare him to Paul Pierce.

Either way I didn't mean to insult you. I just kinda ranted on something that bothers me and your post triggered it.
Apologies for the wording again.

BigDaddyG wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:The only real negative was Grimes in the 4th. This keeps up, I hope IQ gets the nod to close.

Grimes did play some good defense on Jaylin and Tatum tho. Grimes has hit some clutch ones in the past so I'm not worried about the shooting.

Thats true

Grimes has a tough defensive assignment every game. He will grow into a solid 2 way player from this experience. It’s part of his development.

But 2nd unit led by iq stepped up big time. Starters and Bench was cooking. It’s all about our defense and rebounding battles.

Sorry but this is a BS double standard. Grimes makes mistakes in the clutch it's development (and he has made a lot). Barrett-who is the same age and has come through in the clutch more than most care to admit- makes mistakes and he gets pages of bashing. Julius makes mistakes in the clutch and the whole world goes crazy.

Well, Grimes is in second year, so yeah. He won't face the same scrutiny as the vets. Also, we don't win this game without some of the defensive stops he made in OT. Facts. No one is saying Grimes played a perfect game. But he made up for his crappy shooting with defense.

"Everybody's favorite player is the back up quarterback"

I think the mythology of Grimes has surpassed the current performance of Grimes. People are so in love with Grimes because he is new. he played great in the Gleague. He was they guy they wanted to keep in the Mitchell trade. He is the shiny new toy this season. That's all well and good. But the constant negativity surrounding this team when it comes to it's main players, Randle and Barrett explicitly, it's worn.

If you were told at the beginning of the season the Knicks would win 45 games, while getting ALL NBA performance and attitude from Julius, Brunson being an All Star and RJ taking another baby step forward while adjusting to being the third guy I think everyone would have been happier than a pig in shit.

But then I remember we are all sadomasochist Knick fans who can't be happy unless we are unhappy.

CleaverGreene wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:The only real negative was Grimes in the 4th. This keeps up, I hope IQ gets the nod to close.

Grimes did play some good defense on Jaylin and Tatum tho. Grimes has hit some clutch ones in the past so I'm not worried about the shooting.

Thats true

Grimes has a tough defensive assignment every game. He will grow into a solid 2 way player from this experience. It’s part of his development.

But 2nd unit led by iq stepped up big time. Starters and Bench was cooking. It’s all about our defense and rebounding battles.

Sorry but this is a BS double standard. Grimes makes mistakes in the clutch it's development (and he has made a lot). Barrett-who is the same age and has come through in the clutch more than most care to admit- makes mistakes and he gets pages of bashing. Julius makes mistakes in the clutch and the whole world goes crazy.

It's natural to be more critical of an experienced player than a less experienced one. How can you not expect more from Barrett and Randle at this point? If Grimes makes the same mistakes and doesn't hit the clutch shots a couple of years from now, he will get the same criticism that RJ or Randle receive.

RJ & Randle were also picked #3 and #7 in their respective drafts- Both were supposed to be stars.

I don't remember Randle, but I do remember everyone and their mother was not happy about missing on Zion and then on Morant. Do you remember how it went from a 3 player draft (Zion, Ja, Barrett) to a two player draft (Zion, Ja) the minute Barrett was drafted? I'm sorry but the reality of the situation is Barrett has been shit on from the minute he got here.

I remember Randle being a disappointment in LA, redeeming himself in NOLA, then coming here.

joec32033 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:The only real negative was Grimes in the 4th. This keeps up, I hope IQ gets the nod to close.

Grimes did play some good defense on Jaylin and Tatum tho. Grimes has hit some clutch ones in the past so I'm not worried about the shooting.

Thats true

Grimes has a tough defensive assignment every game. He will grow into a solid 2 way player from this experience. It’s part of his development.

But 2nd unit led by iq stepped up big time. Starters and Bench was cooking. It’s all about our defense and rebounding battles.

Sorry but this is a BS double standard. Grimes makes mistakes in the clutch it's development (and he has made a lot). Barrett-who is the same age and has come through in the clutch more than most care to admit- makes mistakes and he gets pages of bashing. Julius makes mistakes in the clutch and the whole world goes crazy.

I have no idea what your smoking today. Huh? What are you talking about.

If you want me to say when Randle (an nba vet) does a spin-turnover it’s development? No it’s a turnover. Stop turning the ball over.

RJ been clutch since Duke. Where the fuc u been?

I think you’re confused by a statement I made that RJ and Randle should split up unless the goal is just make the playoffs. RJ is better when he’s the man. So is Randle. Both are lead dogs.

RJ is a 4 yr starter. Grimes just got consistent PT this year and this is the first yr being a starter. RJ is who he is playing with Randle. Grimes is young in his nba career.

Are you really comparing grimes and RJ? They on different development levels. And all players are developing. So I don’t know what your talking about. I’m a RJ and Randle fan. Same with thibs. I might not like all 3 together on the same team. This is a team sport so I look at the bigger picture. Individually they are all solid players and coach.

Re-reading my post, I shouldn't have opened with the line I did because it made it seem like it was an attack aimed directly at you and it wasn't. It was a general observation.

I wasn't talking about you specifically, you just happened to make the comment about Grimes and I was making an observation. This comment triggered me because I talked earlier in the year specifically about Grimes' concerns in the clutch (lapses on D, poor IQ decisions, bad shots, bad turnovers-basically everything he DOESN'T do during a game) .

I would understand the Randle criticism, but everyone says he is not a main option, so why are main option expectations put on him?

This is where I part ways with what you said specifically. I'm glad you said RJ has been clutch since Duke. It's not like you just lose it. The RJ hate is so annoying (I am an admitted RJ guy), that people don't realize the stuff he does well, and it tiresome when the hate just borders on ignorant.

And yes I am also comparing Grimes and Barrett because both are 22, both have a lot of room to grow. I personally also judge these guys to the expectations I have for them. RJ is frustrating as hell with his finishing. I personally see a MUCH higher ceiling in Barrett than Grimes. I think Grimes is a very good defender, but not great (I still think he makes bad decisions) but is a better defender than RJ. I think they also are on different levels. I think Grimes is basically Starks without the crazy (a one or two time All-Star) while I think Barrett can be a perennial All-Star and at his very very best if everything goes right, I compare him to Paul Pierce.

Either way I didn't mean to insult you. I just kinda ranted on something that bothers me and your post triggered it.
Apologies for the wording again.

No worries. I thought it was out of character. I was like damn, this is beat up on Blkexec day. All good. Knicks winning makes all problems or issues seem small. I’m still geeked about the win and how this team is growing. One solid trade away from being a really good team. But I’m also happy with no trades.

I said RJ will be nice in the nba in the right situation. I’m also a huge grimes fan and like him better because I favor 2 way players. RJ is striving to be that but he’s just a different player to me. But I understand. I do and react the same way when something triggers me.

gradyandrew wrote:The bigger issue for me is if Evan Fournier can be happy that the team is playing well, I don't get why fans nitpick certain players. I think everyone on the team roots for each other. IQ will likely get an 80 million dollar contract in a few seasons and Obi 30. This is what culture looks like.

I hope to never (ever) see Evan Fournier in a Knicks jersey; ever again.

His Defense is absolutely atrocious and his 🗑️ Defense is what SINGLE HANDEDLY destroyed our NY Identity on Defense (under coach Thibs) last season.

I don't do much hating on Knicks players. I'm a natural homer/optimist;
but Evan Fournier is truly one of my least favorite Knicks (of All-time).

Philc1 wrote:Would love to see a 7 game series with us on the Boston media darlings. RJ with all that confidence now.

Team has to get reinforcements at the deadline. We have Julius and Brunson with RJ as a our 2.5. I'm not sure if we need a improvement at back up 5. But a guy like Grayson Allen or a back up wing who can shoot is essential for the post season

blkexec wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:The only real negative was Grimes in the 4th. This keeps up, I hope IQ gets the nod to close.

Grimes did play some good defense on Jaylin and Tatum tho. Grimes has hit some clutch ones in the past so I'm not worried about the shooting.

Thats true

Grimes has a tough defensive assignment every game. He will grow into a solid 2 way player from this experience. It’s part of his development.

But 2nd unit led by iq stepped up big time. Starters and Bench was cooking. It’s all about our defense and rebounding battles.

Sorry but this is a BS double standard. Grimes makes mistakes in the clutch it's development (and he has made a lot). Barrett-who is the same age and has come through in the clutch more than most care to admit- makes mistakes and he gets pages of bashing. Julius makes mistakes in the clutch and the whole world goes crazy.

I have no idea what your smoking today. Huh? What are you talking about.

If you want me to say when Randle (an nba vet) does a spin-turnover it’s development? No it’s a turnover. Stop turning the ball over.

RJ been clutch since Duke. Where the fuc u been?

I think you’re confused by a statement I made that RJ and Randle should split up unless the goal is just make the playoffs. RJ is better when he’s the man. So is Randle. Both are lead dogs.

RJ is a 4 yr starter. Grimes just got consistent PT this year and this is the first yr being a starter. RJ is who he is playing with Randle. Grimes is young in his nba career.

Are you really comparing grimes and RJ? They on different development levels. And all players are developing. So I don’t know what your talking about. I’m a RJ and Randle fan. Same with thibs. I might not like all 3 together on the same team. This is a team sport so I look at the bigger picture. Individually they are all solid players and coach.

Re-reading my post, I shouldn't have opened with the line I did because it made it seem like it was an attack aimed directly at you and it wasn't. It was a general observation.

I wasn't talking about you specifically, you just happened to make the comment about Grimes and I was making an observation. This comment triggered me because I talked earlier in the year specifically about Grimes' concerns in the clutch (lapses on D, poor IQ decisions, bad shots, bad turnovers-basically everything he DOESN'T do during a game) .

I would understand the Randle criticism, but everyone says he is not a main option, so why are main option expectations put on him?

This is where I part ways with what you said specifically. I'm glad you said RJ has been clutch since Duke. It's not like you just lose it. The RJ hate is so annoying (I am an admitted RJ guy), that people don't realize the stuff he does well, and it tiresome when the hate just borders on ignorant.

And yes I am also comparing Grimes and Barrett because both are 22, both have a lot of room to grow. I personally also judge these guys to the expectations I have for them. RJ is frustrating as hell with his finishing. I personally see a MUCH higher ceiling in Barrett than Grimes. I think Grimes is a very good defender, but not great (I still think he makes bad decisions) but is a better defender than RJ. I think they also are on different levels. I think Grimes is basically Starks without the crazy (a one or two time All-Star) while I think Barrett can be a perennial All-Star and at his very very best if everything goes right, I compare him to Paul Pierce.

Either way I didn't mean to insult you. I just kinda ranted on something that bothers me and your post triggered it.
Apologies for the wording again.

No worries. I thought it was out of character. I was like damn, this is beat up on Blkexec day. All good. Knicks winning makes all problems or issues seem small. I’m still geeked about the win and how this team is growing. One solid trade away from being a really good team. But I’m also happy with no trades.

I said RJ will be nice in the nba in the right situation. I’m also a huge grimes fan and like him better because I favor 2 way players. RJ is striving to be that but he’s just a different player to me. But I understand. I do and react the same way when something triggers me.

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Alpha1971 wrote:I want to buy stock in whatever drug Julius is taking. Is it Paxil, lithium salts ? His treatment for his personality disorder has been amazing.He is our all star as long as he is medicated

I think I heard on the broadcast something about meditation. No lie.

blkexec wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:The only real negative was Grimes in the 4th. This keeps up, I hope IQ gets the nod to close.

Grimes did play some good defense on Jaylin and Tatum tho. Grimes has hit some clutch ones in the past so I'm not worried about the shooting.

Thats true

Grimes has a tough defensive assignment every game. He will grow into a solid 2 way player from this experience. It’s part of his development.

But 2nd unit led by iq stepped up big time. Starters and Bench was cooking. It’s all about our defense and rebounding battles.

Sorry but this is a BS double standard. Grimes makes mistakes in the clutch it's development (and he has made a lot). Barrett-who is the same age and has come through in the clutch more than most care to admit- makes mistakes and he gets pages of bashing. Julius makes mistakes in the clutch and the whole world goes crazy.

I have no idea what your smoking today. Huh? What are you talking about.

If you want me to say when Randle (an nba vet) does a spin-turnover it’s development? No it’s a turnover. Stop turning the ball over.

RJ been clutch since Duke. Where the fuc u been?

I think you’re confused by a statement I made that RJ and Randle should split up unless the goal is just make the playoffs. RJ is better when he’s the man. So is Randle. Both are lead dogs.

RJ is a 4 yr starter. Grimes just got consistent PT this year and this is the first yr being a starter. RJ is who he is playing with Randle. Grimes is young in his nba career.

Are you really comparing grimes and RJ? They on different development levels. And all players are developing. So I don’t know what your talking about. I’m a RJ and Randle fan. Same with thibs. I might not like all 3 together on the same team. This is a team sport so I look at the bigger picture. Individually they are all solid players and coach.

Re-reading my post, I shouldn't have opened with the line I did because it made it seem like it was an attack aimed directly at you and it wasn't. It was a general observation.

I wasn't talking about you specifically, you just happened to make the comment about Grimes and I was making an observation. This comment triggered me because I talked earlier in the year specifically about Grimes' concerns in the clutch (lapses on D, poor IQ decisions, bad shots, bad turnovers-basically everything he DOESN'T do during a game) .

I would understand the Randle criticism, but everyone says he is not a main option, so why are main option expectations put on him?

This is where I part ways with what you said specifically. I'm glad you said RJ has been clutch since Duke. It's not like you just lose it. The RJ hate is so annoying (I am an admitted RJ guy), that people don't realize the stuff he does well, and it tiresome when the hate just borders on ignorant.

And yes I am also comparing Grimes and Barrett because both are 22, both have a lot of room to grow. I personally also judge these guys to the expectations I have for them. RJ is frustrating as hell with his finishing. I personally see a MUCH higher ceiling in Barrett than Grimes. I think Grimes is a very good defender, but not great (I still think he makes bad decisions) but is a better defender than RJ. I think they also are on different levels. I think Grimes is basically Starks without the crazy (a one or two time All-Star) while I think Barrett can be a perennial All-Star and at his very very best if everything goes right, I compare him to Paul Pierce.

Either way I didn't mean to insult you. I just kinda ranted on something that bothers me and your post triggered it.
Apologies for the wording again.

No worries. I thought it was out of character. I was like damn, this is beat up on Blkexec day. All good. Knicks winning makes all problems or issues seem small. I’m still geeked about the win and how this team is growing. One solid trade away from being a really good team. But I’m also happy with no trades.

I said RJ will be nice in the nba in the right situation. I’m also a huge grimes fan and like him better because I favor 2 way players. RJ is striving to be that but he’s just a different player to me. But I understand. I do and react the same way when something triggers me.

One thing that turned me onto RJ was his defense his earlier years. He was taking the tough assignments. He can do it because he did do it.

I like Grimes too but I just see him as a high level role player like I said on the level of Starks. I view RJ as a future captain and some of his extended stretched of performances show he can sustain a very high level of play.

joec32033 wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:I want to buy stock in whatever drug Julius is taking. Is it Paxil, lithium salts ? His treatment for his personality disorder has been amazing.He is our all star as long as he is medicated

I think I heard on the broadcast something about meditation. No lie.

joec32033 wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:I want to buy stock in whatever drug Julius is taking. Is it Paxil, lithium salts ? His treatment for his personality disorder has been amazing.He is our all star as long as he is medicated

I think I heard on the broadcast something about meditation. No lie.

I cant believe Brown missed those FTs. I thought only Thibs coached players made mistakes like that

Bottom line is Knicks have a TEAM, and a bunch of guys that can get after you.

Right now IQ is the really the #3. Feels like what we get from him was a lot like what Rose gave us 2 years ago

BigDaddyG wrote:

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LMAO!