I’d also add that I’m guessing the conversation right now is centered around 1 unprotected pick, plus the Dallas pick and another protected pick, which probably isn’t enough for Toronto even if Toppin is involved.
I think working off of the DMurray baseline a good idea.
Knixkik, do you think DMurray was more valuable to someone like OG or equal or lesser value?
I'd argue DMurray had greater value but interested to hear others.
Both have same defensive upside and DMurray has better ball handling and breakdown ability. I think Murray better scorer. Murray has played more games per year although sat with ACL for a season.
martin wrote:I think working off of the DMurray baseline a good idea.Knixkik, do you think DMurray was more valuable to someone like OG or equal or lesser value?
I'd argue DMurray had greater value but interested to hear others.
Both have same defensive upside and DMurray has better ball handling and breakdown ability. I think Murray better scorer. Murray has played more games per year although sat with ACL for a season.
It’s a great question. It’s really close. I’d argue Murray is a better player (and has an allstar game under his belt for whatever that’s worth) but OG is a more seamless fit across the board which increases his value to the level of murray or greater. Murray is a ball dominant player who wouldn’t make sense everywhere. His fit with Trae young has been questionable at best, so it would probably be the same case with about half the rest of the league or more. OG would have zero fit issues pretty much anywhere in the league. He can start at the 2,3 or 4. He can play on a team interested in seeing him in a bigger on-ball role or as simply a supercharged role player that he currently is. So I would honestly say I value OG slightly higher due to the versatility but I think the value on the trade market is virtually equal to Murray.
Knixkik wrote:martin wrote:I think working off of the DMurray baseline a good idea.Knixkik, do you think DMurray was more valuable to someone like OG or equal or lesser value?
I'd argue DMurray had greater value but interested to hear others.
Both have same defensive upside and DMurray has better ball handling and breakdown ability. I think Murray better scorer. Murray has played more games per year although sat with ACL for a season.
It’s a great question. It’s really close. I’d argue Murray is a better player (and has an allstar game under his belt for whatever that’s worth) but OG is a more seamless fit across the board which increases his value to the level of murray or greater. Murray is a ball dominant player who wouldn’t make sense everywhere. His fit with Trae young has been questionable at best, so it would probably be the same case with about half the rest of the league or more. OG would have zero fit issues pretty much anywhere in the league. He can start at the 2,3 or 4. He can play on a team interested in seeing him in a bigger on-ball role or as simply a supercharged role player that he currently is. So I would honestly say I value OG slightly higher due to the versatility but I think the value on the trade market is virtually equal to Murray.
OK, I was just thinking about market value, cause that is what you pay.
He's a good player but too much. Especially for 25 year old who hasn't played 70 games in a season since his rookie year.
The baseline is a good start. Exception is Raptors are in a vastly different situation that Toronto both with current roster, talent on that roster, and pending free agents. Spurs are uber young and tanking. Raptors are underachieving and have depth.
Murray was deemed not a good culture fit going forward and one that would command a good sized payday.
What SAS wanted back was different than what raptors want.
Is it picks or combo of players an picks?
Is it before deadline or in the summer?
If its rumor of two promising players and a pick, who are those players? How many roster spots can Toronto absorb if its mid season trade. EF, Reddish, Obi and two picks? Is Reddish promising? No, he a project.
Hate to say it again, IQ might be that guy with Obi. Or Grimes. Thats ok, we getting a wing back.
Tell me how thibs and FO think about RJ at the 2 long term?
Tell me what they are doing with Trent and Fred and we can start guessing?
Tell me how they feel about their crowded forward issue and lack of a 5?
Then does Sims or Hartenstein fit any slots there?
And again, does OG trade get them to playoffs?
Trades take two to make it happen or a third gets involved. We can offer picks, but are they looking to salvage this season as well?
I don't know about protected or unprotected picks - but if Toronto is looking to re-tool - I have to imagine us being able to give them 3 picks this year, potentially, in Dallas, ours and Washington- is a pretty strong offer.
We just need to beat out what other teams are able to offer.
My guess: I think Knicks would want one of their 2023 picks (whether Dallas or their own).
There is a big difference between including DRose in trade and Obi.
I think Jerami Grant is a closer baseline. A combo forward in his prime who can guard both forward spots and possibly some guards. OG is the better defender but Grant is superior offensively.
https://stathead.com/tiny/U4PEHhttps://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...
July 6, 2022: Traded by the Detroit Pistons with Ismael Kamagate to the Portland Trail Blazers for Gabriele Procida, a 2025 1st round draft pick ( was later selected), a 2025 2nd round draft pick ( was later selected) and a 2026 2nd round draft pick ( was later selected). Detroit also received a trade exception conditional 2025 1st-rd pick is MIL own 2025 2nd-rd pick is DET own 2026 2nd-rd pick is more favorable
BigDaddyG wrote:I think Jerami Grant is a closer baseline. A combo forward in his prime who can guard both forward spots and possibly some guards. OG is the better defender but Grant is superior offensively.
https://stathead.com/tiny/U4PEHhttps://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...
July 6, 2022: Traded by the Detroit Pistons with Ismael Kamagate to the Portland Trail Blazers for Gabriele Procida, a 2025 1st round draft pick ( was later selected), a 2025 2nd round draft pick ( was later selected) and a 2026 2nd round draft pick ( was later selected). Detroit also received a trade exception conditional 2025 1st-rd pick is MIL own 2025 2nd-rd pick is DET own 2026 2nd-rd pick is more favorable
Oh, this is a good comparison. Shall we say, a pre-Gobert trade scenario. Ugh stupid Minny.
martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:I think Jerami Grant is a closer baseline. A combo forward in his prime who can guard both forward spots and possibly some guards. OG is the better defender but Grant is superior offensively.
https://stathead.com/tiny/U4PEHhttps://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...
July 6, 2022: Traded by the Detroit Pistons with Ismael Kamagate to the Portland Trail Blazers for Gabriele Procida, a 2025 1st round draft pick ( was later selected), a 2025 2nd round draft pick ( was later selected) and a 2026 2nd round draft pick ( was later selected). Detroit also received a trade exception conditional 2025 1st-rd pick is MIL own 2025 2nd-rd pick is DET own 2026 2nd-rd pick is more favorable
Oh, this is a good comparison. Shall we say, a pre-Gobert trade scenario. Ugh stupid Minny.
I should add that both are injury prone. Whether you bought Murray's numbers last year or not, he did produce at rate that arguably made him one the top 10 guards in the league last year.
I agree Gran is the better comparison
I also think that every draft has a defensive specialist if that's what you're really after. It's a tough choice though because a lot of those guys seem to be in the same area where the Bookers and Klays get drafted. Point being, it's typically in the no-sure-thing area so a gamble in either direction O or D
Personally, i like the idea of adding a piece that is not ball dominant but i would not give up a lot for OG. I would also prefer we add shooting
absolutely NOT worth was D Murray cost... is OG an all star? A #1 or even #2 option? He's a role player and a complimentary piece and not the guy who puts you into the contention conversation IMO. Something like Obi/Cam and 2-3 of those protected picks.
Forget it. He's an upgrade to the Grimes spot in the rotation. Id rather bet on Grimes being 80% of OG than spending something likee Grimes + 2 first rounders.
What am I missing here? I don’t see anything worthy of three firsts. I wouldn’t have paid three firsts for a choke free Spreewell. OG is closer to James Posey than Latrell Spreewell. Am I missing something?
VDesai wrote:Forget it. He's an upgrade to the Grimes spot in the rotation. Id rather bet on Grimes being 80% of OG than spending something likee Grimes + 2 first rounders.
Then its being patience and understanding that 22 year olds need time. Obviously its not our decision but guessing what goes into the thought process of a front office when deciding.
Also obvious is the difference of opinion from our same sample of fans.
True, Murray is an allstar and being paired with another in Trae. Murray personality was not "appreciated" by Pop and the Spurs FO. I thought that was a good deal for both teams on paper and we only a half season in so is it fair to letter grade it?
Same for DM to Cav's. For a while looked like Jazz flat out fleeced the Cavs. Then not. now Cavs are struggling a bit. Most fair analysis said its a two year window for Cavs BEFORE they have to consider resigning DM.
OG is a very good player. Raptors are bidding him up. Ujiri is doing his job.
But what does he want?
Nalod wrote:VDesai wrote:Forget it. He's an upgrade to the Grimes spot in the rotation. Id rather bet on Grimes being 80% of OG than spending something likee Grimes + 2 first rounders.
Then its being patience and understanding that 22 year olds need time. Obviously its not our decision but guessing what goes into the thought process of a front office when deciding.
Also obvious is the difference of opinion from our same sample of fans.
True, Murray is an allstar and being paired with another in Trae. Murray personality was not "appreciated" by Pop and the Spurs FO. I thought that was a good deal for both teams on paper and we only a half season in so is it fair to letter grade it?
Same for DM to Cav's. For a while looked like Jazz flat out fleeced the Cavs. Then not. now Cavs are struggling a bit. Most fair analysis said its a two year window for Cavs BEFORE they have to consider resigning DM.
OG is a very good player. Raptors are bidding him up. Ujiri is doing his job.
But what does he want?
our fans are retards. Who cares. What matter is the FO is patient, not the fans. Same fans crying for Randle to to be gone are the same one's chanting MVP these days.
What matters is good BB moves. OG is a nice pieces and a core rotation guy is worth a couple late firsts like we have.
Nalod wrote:VDesai wrote:Forget it. He's an upgrade to the Grimes spot in the rotation. Id rather bet on Grimes being 80% of OG than spending something likee Grimes + 2 first rounders.
Then its being patience and understanding that 22 year olds need time. Obviously its not our decision but guessing what goes into the thought process of a front office when deciding.
Also obvious is the difference of opinion from our same sample of fans.
True, Murray is an allstar and being paired with another in Trae. Murray personality was not "appreciated" by Pop and the Spurs FO. I thought that was a good deal for both teams on paper and we only a half season in so is it fair to letter grade it?
Same for DM to Cav's. For a while looked like Jazz flat out fleeced the Cavs. Then not. now Cavs are struggling a bit. Most fair analysis said its a two year window for Cavs BEFORE they have to consider resigning DM.
OG is a very good player. Raptors are bidding him up. Ujiri is doing his job.
But what does he want?
Isn't obvious? He wants to Phuck us!
Seriously, he just wants everything he can get for OG and you can't blame. OG is a player a lot of teams could use. Saw something that said the Grizz are also in the running, which makes sense. The question is what makes sense for the Knicks. Personally, I could accept the Knicks or Dallas picks this year and the Detroit protected pick.
BigDaddyG wrote:Nalod wrote:VDesai wrote:Forget it. He's an upgrade to the Grimes spot in the rotation. Id rather bet on Grimes being 80% of OG than spending something likee Grimes + 2 first rounders.
Then its being patience and understanding that 22 year olds need time. Obviously its not our decision but guessing what goes into the thought process of a front office when deciding.
Also obvious is the difference of opinion from our same sample of fans.
True, Murray is an allstar and being paired with another in Trae. Murray personality was not "appreciated" by Pop and the Spurs FO. I thought that was a good deal for both teams on paper and we only a half season in so is it fair to letter grade it?
Same for DM to Cav's. For a while looked like Jazz flat out fleeced the Cavs. Then not. now Cavs are struggling a bit. Most fair analysis said its a two year window for Cavs BEFORE they have to consider resigning DM.
OG is a very good player. Raptors are bidding him up. Ujiri is doing his job.
But what does he want?
Isn't obvious? He wants to Phuck us!
Seriously, he just wants everything he can get for OG and you can't blame. OG is a player a lot of teams could use. Saw something that said the Grizz are also in the running, which makes sense. The question is what makes sense for the Knicks. Personally, I could accept the Knicks and Dallas picks this year and the Detroit protected pick.
but......future picks are future "grimes an IQ" also. We draft new guys with picks. Can't tell you who.
If your Raptors, does that make sense?
Its not that
Nalod wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Nalod wrote:VDesai wrote:Forget it. He's an upgrade to the Grimes spot in the rotation. Id rather bet on Grimes being 80% of OG than spending something likee Grimes + 2 first rounders.
Then its being patience and understanding that 22 year olds need time. Obviously its not our decision but guessing what goes into the thought process of a front office when deciding.
Also obvious is the difference of opinion from our same sample of fans.
True, Murray is an allstar and being paired with another in Trae. Murray personality was not "appreciated" by Pop and the Spurs FO. I thought that was a good deal for both teams on paper and we only a half season in so is it fair to letter grade it?
Same for DM to Cav's. For a while looked like Jazz flat out fleeced the Cavs. Then not. now Cavs are struggling a bit. Most fair analysis said its a two year window for Cavs BEFORE they have to consider resigning DM.
OG is a very good player. Raptors are bidding him up. Ujiri is doing his job.
But what does he want?
Isn't obvious? He wants to Phuck us!
Seriously, he just wants everything he can get for OG and you can't blame. OG is a player a lot of teams could use. Saw something that said the Grizz are also in the running, which makes sense. The question is what makes sense for the Knicks. Personally, I could accept the Knicks and Dallas picks this year and the Detroit protected pick.
but......future picks are future "grimes an IQ" also. We draft new guys with picks. Can't tell you who.
If your Raptors, does that make sense?
Its not that
I meant to say Knicks or Dallas picks. Not both. Like I said, he wants everything he can get. IQ would make the most sense in our case, given the FVV situation. We'd probably be pushing for Obi, who would redundant on the Raps roster. Cam? Just a throw in. I'm not sure if a compromise exists TBH.
SupremeCommander wrote:What am I missing here? I don't see anything worthy of three firsts. I wouldn't have paid three firsts for a choke free Spreewell. OG is closer to James Posey than Latrell Spreewell. Am I missing something?
Yeah, there are better ways to spend unprotected picks than acquiring essentially a slightly older replica of RJ while keeping the real RJ.
