Knicks · Do you think Lebron James breaking Kareem Abdul-Jabbar record is fair compare 2pts - 3pts (page 1)

Papabear Says

Kareem played most of his career with the 2 point rule no matter how far you was from the basket. A lot of Lebron's points came from 3 point range but not all. So did he really break Kareem Abdul-Jabbar record. WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Is it fair that Wilt Chamberlain was like half a foot taller than everyone in the league?

It is what it is. The game is always evolving and sometimes it's unfair to compare eras. Did Kareem have a tougher time scoring his points than Lebron? Maybe. Did Kareem have a bigger athletic advantage than Lebron did over his competition? It's possible. I've learned not to take these all time records seriously the moment Mark Jackson became second all time assists leader. If you play long enough, you're going to compile enough stats.

yea it’s fair. records hold and fall through rule changes and cultural changes all the time. plus how many 3’s do you think kareem would have ever launched - wooden would have travelled across the country to chastise him for it

My first sports hero was Johnny Unitas when he was the best quarterback in the NFL. 3000 yards put you in the elite zone, Season was 14 games long, earlier in his career 12. Players had jobs selling suits or cars in the offseason. Players looked fat even scrawny and it wouldn't surprise me if Johnny U puffed a cigarette on the sidelines! You look at him and his goofy crewcut and can envision him getting cremated by today's players. But to me he's the greatest ever even if I know better.

Can't compare eras.

It's fair but I will always view Kareem's scoring as more impressive - especially since a high percentage of his points came off the sky hook and it could not be stopped.

He will probably finish his career without ever testing positive for PEDS. That’s probably good for the league but it really muddies the water as far as the importance of records. The drug takers will always be ahead of the drug testers. Some years ago Derek Rose said 7-10 nba athletes were taking PEDS and then he walked it back.

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

Kareem played most of his career with the 2 point rule no matter how far you was from the basket. A lot of Lebron's points came from 3 point range but not all. So did he really break Kareem Abdul-Jabbar record. WHAT DO YOU THINK?

It's beyond fair.

During his Rookie season of 1969-1970 there were only 14 NBA teams which meant he got to beat up on the same guys (over and over again).

LeBron of today in Kareem's era wouldn't have been fair for basketball because LeBron would've averaged 100 points per game if he wanted to

Just watch some of this dunk contest. It's hilarious. And it's embarrassing in comparison to today's generational athletes. The athleticism of those guys (back then) was a laughing stock of a joke in comparison to today's aliens.

What LeBron has done is more impressive. Because it's been much more difficult due to doing it against world class athletes who've evolved in comparison to 1960's/1970's/1980's.

Last but not least?

Just watch that dunk contest again.

And there's our answer.

Rookie wrote:He will probably finish his career without ever testing positive for PEDS. Thats probably good for the league but it really muddies the water as far as the importance of records. The drug takers will always be ahead of the drug testers. Some years ago Derek Rose said 7-10 nba athletes were taking PEDS and then he walked it back.

LeBron James has never needed any type of steroids. He came into the NBA as a KID PHENOM and destroyed the league from day one. I was in High School when he was in High School and all us kids couldn't stop talking about was how LeBron James is going to become the next Jordan as the next NBA Goat. He was so much greatness coming out of High School? The entire world knew it. The entire world knew LeBron. Just a kid in High School; was a generational athlete.

When you look @ LeBron James in comparison to MLB/NFL/Body builders who've been on steroids? You can just tell LeBron James is clean. Just a man who's taken great care of his body. And if LeBron James did steroids? So did Kareem and Michael Jordan.

• #1 All Time in Points?
• #4 All-Time in Assists?
• Top 35 All-Time in Rebounds as a natural SF?
• Better FG% than Michael Jordan?

That's not "steroids".

That's natural God given GREATNESS.

NYKMentality wrote:

Rookie wrote:He will probably finish his career without ever testing positive for PEDS. Thats probably good for the league but it really muddies the water as far as the importance of records. The drug takers will always be ahead of the drug testers. Some years ago Derek Rose said 7-10 nba athletes were taking PEDS and then he walked it back.

LeBron James has never needed any type of steroids. He came into the NBA as a KID PHENOM and destroyed the league from day one. I was in High School when he was in High School and all us kids couldn't stop talking about was how LeBron James is going to become the next Jordan as the next NBA Goat. He was so much greatness coming out of High School? The entire world knew it. The entire world knew LeBron. Just a kid in High School; was a generational athlete.

When you look @ LeBron James in comparison to MLB/NFL/Body builders who've been on steroids? You can just tell LeBron James is clean. Just a man who's taken great care of his body. And if LeBron James did steroids? So did Kareem and Michael Jordan.

• #1 All Time in Points?
• #4 All-Time in Assists?
• Top 35 All-Time in Rebounds as a natural SF?
• Better FG% than Michael Jordan?

That's not "steroids".

That's natural God given GREATNESS.

There are other PEDs outside of "steroids" and all compounds don't produce the same results. I don't want to turn this into a witch hunt thread. Let's just say none of us know.

NYKMentality wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

Kareem played most of his career with the 2 point rule no matter how far you was from the basket. A lot of Lebron's points came from 3 point range but not all. So did he really break Kareem Abdul-Jabbar record. WHAT DO YOU THINK?

It's beyond fair.

During his Rookie season of 1969-1970 there were only 14 NBA teams which meant he got to beat up on the same guys (over and over again).

LeBron of today in Kareem's era wouldn't have been fair for basketball because LeBron would've averaged 100 points per game if he wanted to

Just watch some of this dunk contest. It's hilarious. And it's embarrassing in comparison to today's generational athletes. The athleticism of those guys (back then) was a laughing stock of a joke in comparison to today's aliens.

What LeBron has done is more impressive. Because it's been much more difficult due to doing it against world class athletes who've evolved in comparison to 1960's/1970's/1980's.

Last but not least?

Just watch that dunk contest again.

And there's our answer.

Your answer on what was more impressive was to show much how more creative today's players are generally vs back in the late 70s/early 80s?

You also mentioned being close in age to Lebron so you really have little to no frame of reference if you never watched those players from back in the day. There were very athletic guys like David Thompson, Dr. J (MJ, Dominique Wilkins, Barkley shortly after) who were that generations version of Lebron, Ja, Zion, etc... no debate that players of today are as a whole at a higher level of athleticism vs 40-50 years ago... but that doesn't mean that scoring was easier simply because the majority couldn't do windmills or 360's on the dunking line. Kareem had to score on guys like Unseld, Willis Reid, Gilmore, etc... all very strong and tough in their own way. You may be right but picking a unique dunk contest clip really doesn't tell the story. Back then stars did dunk contests even if they could care less about dunking. The argument could be made that today's players aren't as physical and with different defensive schemes allowed... they're both great IMO!

NYKMentality wrote:

Rookie wrote:He will probably finish his career without ever testing positive for PEDS. Thats probably good for the league but it really muddies the water as far as the importance of records. The drug takers will always be ahead of the drug testers. Some years ago Derek Rose said 7-10 nba athletes were taking PEDS and then he walked it back.

LeBron James has never needed any type of steroids. He came into the NBA as a KID PHENOM and destroyed the league from day one. I was in High School when he was in High School and all us kids couldn't stop talking about was how LeBron James is going to become the next Jordan as the next NBA Goat. He was so much greatness coming out of High School? The entire world knew it. The entire world knew LeBron. Just a kid in High School; was a generational athlete.

When you look @ LeBron James in comparison to MLB/NFL/Body builders who've been on steroids? You can just tell LeBron James is clean. Just a man who's taken great care of his body. And if LeBron James did steroids? So did Kareem and Michael Jordan.

• #1 All Time in Points?
• #4 All-Time in Assists?
• Top 35 All-Time in Rebounds as a natural SF?
• Better FG% than Michael Jordan?

That's not "steroids".

That's natural God given GREATNESS.

You’re missing the whole targeted approach to PEDs. It’s a science and a profitable one. An athlete like Lance Armstrong isn’t taking the same thing a relief pitcher or a body builder is taking. The only thing we know for sure is that we will never know for sure. The players association is strong, the trainers are a first line of defense and testing has gaps for sophisticated cheaters to exploit

Panos wrote:Is it fair that Wilt Chamberlain was like half a foot taller than everyone in the league?

I used to think that. But they had a lot of tall lanky players. Now they have the same height dudes but built like sims. Back then is was a full court game and wilt was one of the best track stars in HS and college. Then we had centers built like lineman. Now we have 3pt shooting forwards at center. As the game change the players change. That’s why I can’t compare eras.

Here’s a good one that starts a lot of arguments. Most young guys think Steph is the best player ever. Put Steph in Jordan’s era and he becomes Jamal Crawford. Put MJ in todays game, he’s still MJ.

The rule changes that give the advantage to the offensive player had a big impact on this statistic.
The 3 pointer is of course also a big factor.

After a quick Google search the following are the number of made baskets in their careers:
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar · 15,837
Lebron James: 13,993

Lebron has made 2,233 3 pointers...

Kareem (without 3 pointers): 38,387 points
Lebron record: 38,351 points
Lebron with 3s counted as 2s: 36,118

So yeah.. the 3 pointer was the big factor and for the true record Lebron needs 76 more games of 30+ scoring, or 152 games of 15+ scoring, etc...
I think he will likely break the real record when accounted for the 3, but it won't be this season or next...

blkexec wrote:

Panos wrote:Is it fair that Wilt Chamberlain was like half a foot taller than everyone in the league?

I used to think that. But they had a lot of tall lanky players. Now they have the same height dudes but built like sims. Back then is was a full court game and wilt was one of the best track stars in HS and college. Then we had centers built like lineman. Now we have 3pt shooting forwards at center. As the game change the players change. That’s why I can’t compare eras.

Here’s a good one that starts a lot of arguments. Most young guys think Steph is the best player ever. Put Steph in Jordan’s era and he becomes Jamal Crawford. Put MJ in todays game, he’s still MJ.

Or prime Mark Price or prime Mahmoud Rauf or even Reggie Miller on steroids. I agree that Steph isn't the basketball player ever tho.

I think no one will ever beat Wilt’s record

I still can't believe we're about to see LeBron James pass Kareem for the most Points Scored within NBA History.

As a kid growing up throughout the 1990's I never knew who LeBron James was. He had yet to exist (in my own mind) but yet here we are.

LeBron is 6 points away from breaking a record that was set back on April 5th of 1984 which is when Kareem Abdul-Jabbar broke the All-Time scoring record (previously held by Wilt Chamberlain).

I was born in 1985. This record has stood before I was born (37 going on 38 years ago). Didn't start watching basketball on TV until 1992 @ 7 years old (watched every game of the 1992 dream team with my older brother).

And I never thought I'd see Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's 38,387 Points go down in flames.

It'll be legendary if LeBron utilizes the SKY HOOK when he breaks the record in order to thank Kareem for a record that's stood for so long.

It just seems silly to me that for some reason this is a regular season record instead of being a regular season plus playoffs combined. I also don't like how the scoring title is determined by average rather than totals.

Hard to deny lebron being the all time great. Jordan is Jordan but man lebron has done everything in this sport.

Rookie wrote:Youre missing the whole targeted approach to PEDs. It;s a science and a profitable one. An athlete like Lance Armstrong isnt taking the same thing a relief pitcher or a body builder is taking. The only thing we know for sure is that we will never know for sure. The players association is strong, the trainers are a first line of defense and testing has gaps for sophisticated cheaters to exploit

Okay fair enough but then no records can be respected with this mindset. Because steroids/PEDs have been around since dating back to the 1800's.

"In 1889, for example, pitcher Pud Galvin became the first baseball player to be widely known for his use of performance-enhancing substances. Galvin was a user and vocal proponent of the Brown-Séquard Elixir, a testosterone supplement derived from the testicles of live animals such as dogs and guinea pigs".

And also "the first doping case at the Winter Olympics was noted at the 1972 Sapporo Games, when West German ice hockey player Alois Schloder tested positive for the banned substance ephedrine".

Who knows.

Maybe all 3 of Wilt/Kareem/Jordan were all doping too?

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

Kareem played most of his career with the 2 point rule no matter how far you was from the basket. A lot of Lebron's points came from 3 point range but not all. So did he really break Kareem Abdul-Jabbar record. WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Throw in 4 years of college for Kareem when he clearly could have walked into the league and put up points at 18.

Folks tend to think of Kareem as old man Laker Kareem — they forget the 7ft gazelle Lew Alcindor who was just such a beautiful/graceful athlete.