Knicks · Josh Hart to Knicks (page 13)

Point - can be a guard or a forward. Brings the ball up and initiates the offense.
3&D - Long tweener that can guard traditional 1-4 and can hit a 3 with 36%+ accuracy
Slash - Athletic player that can work without the ball.
Big - Can take a lot of forms, but generally a player that works on the block.

The traditional positions are becoming meaningless. But, players that can't fit into these categories are likely underperforming their positional needs.

Point - Brunson, Randle, Quick.
3&D - [Grimes 1-3] [Barrett 1-4] [McBride - 1-2]. Neither is shooting with a high enough clip to fit perfectly.
Slash - jHart, Toppin.
Big - Robinson, iHart, Sims

So, not a perfect match for my notions of positions. But not horrible. Continued growth is necessary. Happy lately with how things are improving.

Caseloads wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

Panos wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:Josh Hart has played most of his entire NBA Career @ SF and I'd imagine it's because he's an excellent rebounder with great wing Defense too.

Oh really?
https://www.nba.com/player/1628404/josh-...
What position does it list there?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...

For position I usually check the play-by-play position estimate at basketball reference. This is also splitting hairs; generally the NBA has moved to talking about wings rather than SG and SF.

There really is no such thing as SF and SG anymore.

There's guards that can shoot (SGs) and guards that can't (SGs and SFs).

Classically, SFs were small PFs who could dribble and sometimes shoot.

Now SFs are SGs who can not shoot; or SGs who are rebounders and defenders.

So AGAIN why are people saying RJ is a "natural SG"? Like he's being played out of position or something. I hear a lot of gaslighting about it, but nobody actually backing that up.
So we all agree that's bullshit, right?

Panos wrote:

Caseloads wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

Panos wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:Josh Hart has played most of his entire NBA Career @ SF and I'd imagine it's because he's an excellent rebounder with great wing Defense too.

Oh really?
https://www.nba.com/player/1628404/josh-...
What position does it list there?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...

For position I usually check the play-by-play position estimate at basketball reference. This is also splitting hairs; generally the NBA has moved to talking about wings rather than SG and SF.

There really is no such thing as SF and SG anymore.

There's guards that can shoot (SGs) and guards that can't (SGs and SFs).

Classically, SFs were small PFs who could dribble and sometimes shoot.

Now SFs are SGs who can not shoot; or SGs who are rebounders and defenders.

So AGAIN why are people saying RJ is a "natural SG"? Like he's being played out of position or something. I hear a lot of gaslighting about it, but nobody actually backing that up.
So we all agree that's bullshit, right?

To me RJ is a big SG who can play SF, but his IDEAL fit and role right now is bully ball SG which he hasnt been able to play since Reggie played SF and the 10 minutes Cam was here and playing.

Hart/IQ/Grimes and Fournier are all much more SG than SF in a world of position less basketball so RJ is a SF while he's here. I think its a roster flaw that hurts RJ. Like when Sprewell played SF. Made it work, wasnt the best.

When RJ is on opposing SGs he seems to barrel to the rim at will and finish better. Just my 2c of what I prefer RJ at SG, but its not gonna happen with our current roster. Is what it is. Cam was our big wing and he sucked.

Hart measured 6'4 with a 6'9 wingspan
RJ measured 6'6 with a 6'10 wingspan

fishmike wrote:

Panos wrote:

Caseloads wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

Panos wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:Josh Hart has played most of his entire NBA Career @ SF and I'd imagine it's because he's an excellent rebounder with great wing Defense too.

Oh really?
https://www.nba.com/player/1628404/josh-...
What position does it list there?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...

For position I usually check the play-by-play position estimate at basketball reference. This is also splitting hairs; generally the NBA has moved to talking about wings rather than SG and SF.

There really is no such thing as SF and SG anymore.

There's guards that can shoot (SGs) and guards that can't (SGs and SFs).

Classically, SFs were small PFs who could dribble and sometimes shoot.

Now SFs are SGs who can not shoot; or SGs who are rebounders and defenders.

So AGAIN why are people saying RJ is a "natural SG"? Like he's being played out of position or something. I hear a lot of gaslighting about it, but nobody actually backing that up.
So we all agree that's bullshit, right?

dont get lost in the verbiage. Idk what "natural SG" is supposed to mean but I 100% want him at SG vs. SF because of his size. His role on offense is going be the same. The difference is when RJ draws smaller defenders he's even better at doing what he does best which is take it to the rim.

To me RJ is a big SG who can play SF, but his IDEAL fit and role right now is bully ball SG which he hasnt been able to play since Reggie played SF and the 10 minutes Cam was here and playing.

Hart/IQ/Grimes and Fournier are all much more SG than SF in a world of position less basketball so RJ is a SF while he's here. I think its a roster flaw that hurts RJ. Like when Sprewell played SF. Made it work, wasnt the best.

When RJ is on opposing SGs he seems to barrel to the rim at will and finish better. Just my 2c of what I prefer RJ at SG, but its not gonna happen with our current roster. Is what it is. Cam was our big wing and he sucked.

Hart measured 6'4 with a 6'9 wingspan
RJ measured 6'6 with a 6'10 wingspan

I wonder if one should play off the bench then. Not sure which one either. We now actually have a bit of talent at the position (Grimes)

(much improved from the 1.0 release)

Panos wrote:Ok, I got it: Hart is JYD-2.0

Remember when we had that kid Ken Rubbish in the roster?

KnickDanger wrote:Not to overstate or get too far ahead, but any of you remember when the Knicks traded for Oakley? Of course not comparing them as players but could Hart be the missing piece, or at least a guy who helps make the sum bigger than its parts?

Definitely. He's a guy who doesn't define his impact based on his shots or total point. He could've scored 11 or 14 tonight and his presence still would've been felt.

Josh Hart vs. Utah:
25 Minutes.
11 Points.
7 Rebounds.
4 Assists.
4 Steals.
FG = 3/6 (.500%).
4 Fouls.
+/- of -5.

Josh Hart vs. Brooklyn:
27 Minutes
27 Points
5 Rebounds
2 Assists
1 Steal
FG = 10/14 (.714%).
4 Fouls.
+/- of +25.

I actually really like how he's been hit with 8 fouls too (4 each game) because it's an example of his Defensive Aggression (perfect intensity off the bench).

fishmike wrote:

Panos wrote:

Caseloads wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

Panos wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:Josh Hart has played most of his entire NBA Career @ SF and I'd imagine it's because he's an excellent rebounder with great wing Defense too.

Oh really?
https://www.nba.com/player/1628404/josh-...
What position does it list there?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...

For position I usually check the play-by-play position estimate at basketball reference. This is also splitting hairs; generally the NBA has moved to talking about wings rather than SG and SF.

There really is no such thing as SF and SG anymore.

There's guards that can shoot (SGs) and guards that can't (SGs and SFs).

Classically, SFs were small PFs who could dribble and sometimes shoot.

Now SFs are SGs who can not shoot; or SGs who are rebounders and defenders.

So AGAIN why are people saying RJ is a "natural SG"? Like he's being played out of position or something. I hear a lot of gaslighting about it, but nobody actually backing that up.
So we all agree that's bullshit, right?

dont get lost in the verbiage. Idk what "natural SG" is supposed to mean but I 100% want him at SG vs. SF because of his size. His role on offense is going be the same. The difference is when RJ draws smaller defenders he's even better at doing what he does best which is take it to the rim.

To me RJ is a big SG who can play SF, but his IDEAL fit and role right now is bully ball SG which he hasnt been able to play since Reggie played SF and the 10 minutes Cam was here and playing.

Hart/IQ/Grimes and Fournier are all much more SG than SF in a world of position less basketball so RJ is a SF while he's here. I think its a roster flaw that hurts RJ. Like when Sprewell played SF. Made it work, wasnt the best.

When RJ is on opposing SGs he seems to barrel to the rim at will and finish better. Just my 2c of what I prefer RJ at SG, but its not gonna happen with our current roster. Is what it is. Cam was our big wing and he sucked.

Hart measured 6'4 with a 6'9 wingspan
RJ measured 6'6 with a 6'10 wingspan

I think the wing label fits. I know I've gone back and forthe with Martin over RJ as a SF or a SG, but I think the labels for "wing" are correct.

Although I will say if RJ is finishing better (and he has been), I agree he is probably better at the 2 due to being able to get into the paint against smaller guards.

NYKMentality wrote:

martin wrote:It won't be with Rose, you're definitely a homer LOL

iHart, Obi, RJ, Hart, IQ

I can't see R.J. Barrett on the bench because every team needs a 3rd Scorer and Grimes may never become a 20+ point per game scorer (alongside of Jalen Brunson and Julius Randle) especially not this year he won't.

I'd actually like to see...

C; Mitchell Robinson.
PF: Julius Randle.
SF: Josh Hart.
SG: R.J. Barrett.
PG: Jalen Brunson.

Moves R.J. Barrett back to his natural position of 2G (@ 6'6) while also allowing Quentin Grimes to have more of an impact (Offensive) Role amongst the 2nd unit.

C; Isaiah Hartenstein.
PF: Obi Toppin.
SG: Quentin Grimes.
PG: Immanuel Quickley.

(And Ladies and Gentlemen; that's Tom Thibs 9-Man Rotation right there).

Long story short I think the addition of Josh Hart gives Tom Thibs a lot of different rotational opportunities.

Possible that RJ is a third shooter but not a 3rd scorer?

Meanwhile back to Josh Hart. Only two games so I’ll take a breath. But initial perception is this might be a really great trade for the Knicks, one that ratchets the overall performance level a notch or two. Meaning? Won’t get too far ahead.

Also musing on the other trade ideas floating around before the deadline. Would Caruso, Bey, Vanderbilt etc. have done anything similar? Even OG and at a terribly higher cost? I don’t know of course, but thinking maybe the FO isn’t “a disgrace?”

KnickDanger wrote:Geez, now that every thread can’t be derailed into a “dump Randle” thread, is the new destination “what’s wrong with RJ/RJ sucks?” Not long before “dump RJ” is the chorus I’m guessing.

Meanwhile back to Josh Hart. Only two games so I’ll take a breath. But initial perception is this might be a really great trade for the Knicks, one that ratchets the overall performance level a notch or two. Meaning? Won’t get too far ahead.

Also musing on the other trade ideas floating around before the deadline. Would Caruso, Bey, Vanderbilt etc. have done anything similar? Even OG and at a terribly higher cost? I don’t know of course, but thinking maybe the FO isn’t “a disgrace?”

While RJ is the new battered poster player for the fan living the "he gets paid millions, I Don't, so fuck'em", the knicks are winning beyond expectatatoins. The pieces that add up do matter.
The assumption is if RJ was doing better, we'd be winning and happier, so "Millionaire 22 year old RJ is c'ock blocking my happiness" so lets dump him...........

So good that Brunson is better than expected and Randle (laster years blocker) is a freaking allstar!
Lets hope RJ is not hitting the crack pipe, distracted by love interests, not dealing with personal issues, or a very ill loved one.
Maybe we never find out what up with him but he is uncharacteristically not playing well in areas outside of hitting his shots.
22 year olds can ebb and flow but rarely fall back like this unless there is a issue. He is part of the knick "pack" and root for all our guys to succeed.

Nalod wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:Geez, now that every thread can’t be derailed into a “dump Randle” thread, is the new destination “what’s wrong with RJ/RJ sucks?” Not long before “dump RJ” is the chorus I’m guessing.

Meanwhile back to Josh Hart. Only two games so I’ll take a breath. But initial perception is this might be a really great trade for the Knicks, one that ratchets the overall performance level a notch or two. Meaning? Won’t get too far ahead.

Also musing on the other trade ideas floating around before the deadline. Would Caruso, Bey, Vanderbilt etc. have done anything similar? Even OG and at a terribly higher cost? I don’t know of course, but thinking maybe the FO isn’t “a disgrace?”

While RJ is the new battered poster player for the fan living the "he gets paid millions, I Don't, so fuck'em", the knicks are winning beyond expectatatoins. The pieces that add up do matter.
The assumption is if RJ was doing better, we'd be winning and happier, so "Millionaire 22 year old RJ is c'ock blocking my happiness" so lets dump him...........

So good that Brunson is better than expected and Randle (laster years blocker) is a freaking allstar!
Lets hope RJ is not hitting the crack pipe, distracted by love interests, not dealing with personal issues, or a very ill loved one.
Maybe we never find out what up with him but he is uncharacteristically not playing well in areas outside of hitting his shots.
22 year olds can ebb and flow but rarely fall back like this unless there is a issue. He is part of the knick "pack" and root for all our guys to succeed.

Where the hell did this come from? Who said anything about his salary? Pointing out his current bad play the possibility that he may not be as good as projected has nothing to do with jealousy of his earnings. There are other players on the team making > $10M. You don't even hear anyone complaining about EF at this point, and he's making $18M as an injured reserve.
The point is that he's getting big minutes and not contributing, which lowers the impact of the positive contributions of his teammates. Stop inventing shit.

Panos wrote:

Nalod wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:Geez, now that every thread can’t be derailed into a “dump Randle” thread, is the new destination “what’s wrong with RJ/RJ sucks?” Not long before “dump RJ” is the chorus I’m guessing.

Meanwhile back to Josh Hart. Only two games so I’ll take a breath. But initial perception is this might be a really great trade for the Knicks, one that ratchets the overall performance level a notch or two. Meaning? Won’t get too far ahead.

Also musing on the other trade ideas floating around before the deadline. Would Caruso, Bey, Vanderbilt etc. have done anything similar? Even OG and at a terribly higher cost? I don’t know of course, but thinking maybe the FO isn’t “a disgrace?”

While RJ is the new battered poster player for the fan living the "he gets paid millions, I Don't, so fuck'em", the knicks are winning beyond expectatatoins. The pieces that add up do matter.
The assumption is if RJ was doing better, we'd be winning and happier, so "Millionaire 22 year old RJ is c'ock blocking my happiness" so lets dump him...........

So good that Brunson is better than expected and Randle (laster years blocker) is a freaking allstar!
Lets hope RJ is not hitting the crack pipe, distracted by love interests, not dealing with personal issues, or a very ill loved one.
Maybe we never find out what up with him but he is uncharacteristically not playing well in areas outside of hitting his shots.
22 year olds can ebb and flow but rarely fall back like this unless there is a issue. He is part of the knick "pack" and root for all our guys to succeed.

Where the hell did this come from? Who said anything about his salary? Pointing out his current bad play the possibility that he may not be as good as projected has nothing to do with jealousy of his earnings. There are other players on the team making > $10M. You don't even hear anyone complaining about EF at this point, and he's making $18M as an injured reserve.
The point is that he's getting big minutes and not contributing, which lowers the impact of the positive contributions of his teammates. Stop inventing shit.

Panos, with courtesy I'm not sure you're aware of of the RJ virus spreading anywhere and everywhere there is any public discourse about the Knicks.

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/KnicksMSGN/status/1625585806663376922?t=8lNal52IqYDs64lDNIsRrg&s=19

Click here to view the Tweet

This shit is contagious.

Panos wrote:

Nalod wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:Geez, now that every thread can’t be derailed into a “dump Randle” thread, is the new destination “what’s wrong with RJ/RJ sucks?” Not long before “dump RJ” is the chorus I’m guessing.

Meanwhile back to Josh Hart. Only two games so I’ll take a breath. But initial perception is this might be a really great trade for the Knicks, one that ratchets the overall performance level a notch or two. Meaning? Won’t get too far ahead.

Also musing on the other trade ideas floating around before the deadline. Would Caruso, Bey, Vanderbilt etc. have done anything similar? Even OG and at a terribly higher cost? I don’t know of course, but thinking maybe the FO isn’t “a disgrace?”

While RJ is the new battered poster player for the fan living the "he gets paid millions, I Don't, so fuck'em", the knicks are winning beyond expectatatoins. The pieces that add up do matter.
The assumption is if RJ was doing better, we'd be winning and happier, so "Millionaire 22 year old RJ is c'ock blocking my happiness" so lets dump him...........

So good that Brunson is better than expected and Randle (laster years blocker) is a freaking allstar!
Lets hope RJ is not hitting the crack pipe, distracted by love interests, not dealing with personal issues, or a very ill loved one.
Maybe we never find out what up with him but he is uncharacteristically not playing well in areas outside of hitting his shots.
22 year olds can ebb and flow but rarely fall back like this unless there is a issue. He is part of the knick "pack" and root for all our guys to succeed.

Where the hell did this come from? Who said anything about his salary? Pointing out his current bad play the possibility that he may not be as good as projected has nothing to do with jealousy of his earnings. There are other players on the team making > $10M. You don't even hear anyone complaining about EF at this point, and he's making $18M as an injured reserve.
The point is that he's getting big minutes and not contributing, which lowers the impact of the positive contributions of his teammates. Stop inventing shit.

And who said I was directing anything to you?
But…..Briggs recently was going off that him and randle make 30 mil each as one example.
Im paraphrasing the bing bong basement at parents home knick fan who goes off when things are not smooth.
EF gets more love now he not in full time rotation. WHy? Knicks are doing well.

When not, some were yelling to have Reddish play.
IHart was struggling, he was to be banished.
Am I wrong?
Fans react. FO anticipates.

For goodness sake in our losing streak some were calling to blow it up and start over! Including the FO!
Not Panos, I get that.
Winning is good. We are doing well despite RJ struggle. Tell me why he is struggling to this degree and then I’ll react. There seems to be some that are “ok, im done with him” and want him dumped.

All I know fans get emotional. Some are over the top positive, and some are flat out negative. All I know is RJ has 4 more years after this at bigger money and I am dismayed anyone can have a serious conversation about what ifs without knowing what is going on with the kid. He didn’t just out grow. His body this fast. He is not dunking in traffic as he was earlier in the year. I think as he struggles, one or two possessions are tweeted as awful and we burn that into the fan base who are impressionable.

My favorite player is John Starks and Josh Hart is the closest you can get to Starks.

Streaky shooter but gives 110% effort when on the floor.

Josh represent NY basketball in it's purest form.

blkexec wrote:Before this turns into the 20th RJ hate thread, lets bring this back to Josh Hart.

My favorite player is John Starks and Josh Hart is the closest you can get to Starks.

Streaky shooter but gives 110% effort when on the floor.

Josh represent NY basketball in it's purest form.

I see more Latrell Sprewell. Josh is very fast, and tough as nails. Also has that chip on the shoulder that Latrell had.