Knicks · Hypothetical: What would Brooklyn want for Mikal & Ben Simmons this summer? (page 2)
martin wrote:NYKMentality wrote:Why would anyone in their right basketball mind EVER trade away a 22 year old R.J. Barrett for a 26 year old Mikal Bridges?!?R.J. Barrett @ 22 years old (despite being 4 years younger) already averages more Career Points, more Career Assists and more Career Rebounds than a 26 year old Mikal Bridges.
Trust me when I say
🤣 It wouldn't take long before NYC completely turns on Mikal Bridges 😭
And Ben Simmons? Forget about it. lol. He'd easily become NYC's public enemy #1.
Cause Mikal is light years better than RJ in pretty much every aspect of the game?
I have always like him, but did you watch him against the Knicks ? Same poor shooting and got destroyed defensively by Brunson. Just saying if we had him people would turn on him the same way. Just like Barrett this year and Randle last year. And I would consider trading Barrett for bridges, but bridges is going to bring plenty of stinkers just like Barrett.
Rookie wrote:Any love for Cameron Johnson as a FA?
He would be an awesome backup PF.
Rookie wrote:Any love for Cameron Johnson as a FA?
Nope.
Nothing to do with Johnson.
No cap space.
He ain't signing for the MLE.
martin wrote:Knickoftime wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:In this hypothetical, how many picks do you think the Nets would need to attach to get 4if of Simmons in a standalone trade?Right, that’s the crux of it and I have no idea, don’t keep up with his play at all.
The savings Brooklyn would realize would be for Ben’s $38m + $40m salary (assuming he is useless), luxury tax saving for next year.
In hypotheticals like these, always smart to check in with OKC.
Just $99m committed to 14 players.
They could absorb almost all of Simmmons' salary without sending much (if anything) back (optimal is that's the nets motivation) and take some of those sweet, sweet Suns unprotected picks off the nets hands.
A team like OKC would have to take in consideration the $40m in 2024 salary for Ben, and it would (most likely?) put them into the luxury for that year. Tough swallow for them perhaps?
Luxury tax threshold is $162m in 2023-24, and likely higher in 2024-25.
They have room to play. And THAT's assuming they keep SVA both years.
BigDaddyG wrote:Knickoftime wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:In this hypothetical, how many picks do you think the Nets would need to attach to get 4if of Simmons in a standalone trade?Right, that’s the crux of it and I have no idea, don’t keep up with his play at all.
The savings Brooklyn would realize would be for Ben’s $38m + $40m salary (assuming he is useless), luxury tax saving for next year.
In hypotheticals like these, always smart to check in with OKC.
Just $99m committed to 14 players.
They could absorb almost all of Simmmons' salary without sending much (if anything) back (optimal is that's the nets motivation) and take some of those sweet, sweet Suns unprotected picks off the nets hands.
Yeah, I think the Nets would have to bring a third team. Trade team 1) Mykal for multiple picks. I know the rumors said 4 picks, but I'm not buying it. Then the Nets would have to redirect those picks, one top 5 protected and one swap maybe, to team 2 to dump Simmons. The value of first rounders have been up and down this season, so I can't say how many would need to be included in a Simmons dump.
I was thinking OKC just take Simmons directly.
No need for a third team.
Knixkik wrote:martin wrote:NYKMentality wrote:Why would anyone in their right basketball mind EVER trade away a 22 year old R.J. Barrett for a 26 year old Mikal Bridges?!?R.J. Barrett @ 22 years old (despite being 4 years younger) already averages more Career Points, more Career Assists and more Career Rebounds than a 26 year old Mikal Bridges.
Trust me when I say
🤣 It wouldn't take long before NYC completely turns on Mikal Bridges 😭
And Ben Simmons? Forget about it. lol. He'd easily become NYC's public enemy #1.
Cause Mikal is light years better than RJ in pretty much every aspect of the game?
I have always like him, but did you watch him against the Knicks ? Same poor shooting and got destroyed defensively by Brunson. Just saying if we had him people would turn on him the same way. Just like Barrett this year and Randle last year. And I would consider trading Barrett for bridges, but bridges is going to bring plenty of stinkers just like Barrett.
The stats don’t like about Mikal. But I am thinking we should care less about a player and more about did they win in college? And recreating a bit of Nova makes sense.
His per 100 always seem good except now this year, his offense is down a bunch.
Maybe he didn’t play good against the Knicks is because he likes JB and Hart and it’s hard to go against your friends for some people???
NYKMentality wrote:martin wrote:NYKMentality wrote:Why would anyone in their right basketball mind EVER trade away a 22 year old R.J. Barrett for a 26 year old Mikal Bridges?!?R.J. Barrett @ 22 years old (despite being 4 years younger) already averages more Career Points, more Career Assists and more Career Rebounds than a 26 year old Mikal Bridges.
Trust me when I say
🤣 It wouldn't take long before NYC completely turns on Mikal Bridges 😭
And Ben Simmons? Forget about it. lol. He'd easily become NYC's public enemy #1.
Cause Mikal is light years better than RJ?
Not according to career points per game, career assists per game and/or cares rebounds per game (he's not).
And if you wanna talk about "efficiency"? Look @ Mikal Bridges Shooting Percentages and Player Efficiency Rating @ only 22 and R.J. has him beat in that regard too.
PS: Mikal Bridges looked completely exposed against the Knicks without a HOF PG Chris Paul making his job 10x easier.
Volume is about opportunity. eFG and TS% show skill. Don’t spout points in a vacuum. How do each get their points. Barrett needs to get more efficient. We can tell 22 all day, but for 4 years he has been an inefficient scorer. He hasn’t taken that next step. Now, the rest of his development comes with a price tag.
martin wrote:NYKMentality wrote:martin wrote:NYKMentality wrote:Why would anyone in their right basketball mind EVER trade away a 22 year old R.J. Barrett for a 26 year old Mikal Bridges?!?R.J. Barrett @ 22 years old (despite being 4 years younger) already averages more Career Points, more Career Assists and more Career Rebounds than a 26 year old Mikal Bridges.
Trust me when I say
🤣 It wouldn't take long before NYC completely turns on Mikal Bridges 😭
And Ben Simmons? Forget about it. lol. He'd easily become NYC's public enemy #1.
Cause Mikal is light years better than RJ?
Not according to career points per game, career assists per game and/or cares rebounds per game (he's not).
And if you wanna talk about "efficiency"? Look @ Mikal Bridges Shooting Percentages and Player Efficiency Rating @ only 22 and R.J. has him beat in that regard too.
PS: Mikal Bridges looked completely exposed against the Knicks without a HOF PG Chris Paul making his job 10x easier.
Well, that’s a good homer’s way of looking at things I guess.
Barretts counting numbers are good because he plays a ton of minutes. Good teams don't have the need to play high usage players that are that inefficent 35 minutes a night. Its not just about scoring, but the overall fit of the roster. The Knicks don't need a high usage 3rd scorer in the starting line up. Players like OG and Mikal provide the spacing that fits this roster better between Randle and Brunson.
Tell me this isn't a better starting line up. It has better defense, and better spacing. You have to find some more punch on the 2nd unit. Get another frontcourt player that can provide some offense. Obi should be able to fill the role but hasn't. Could use a vet combo forward for some Randle insurance in free agency. Even if they have to overpay with the mid level.
C Robinson
PF Randle
SF OG / MIkal
SG Hart
PG Brunson
PG Brunson, Quickley, Mcbride
SG Hart, Quckley, Grimes, 2023 draft pick
SF OG/Mikal, Grimes, 2023 draft pick
PF Randle, Obi, Hart
C Robinson, Hart, Sims
I get it. He is one of the best “grass is greener” type players.
Josh Hart is getting so much hype now. Media today comparing him to Jimmy Butler.
Wow, are we so desperate as a fan base that we have to hype things up and then be so disappointed when things sometimes regress?
Fans, not the FO.
No thought to fixing Randle last year, just dump him.
Same with RJ.
Its all good for now, but knicks go on a three game losing streak y’all want Hart minutes cut, and Deuce to start? Same for IQ. We love our under hyped rooks.
Bridges is a good glue guy and has always been hyped given his Villinova role and handsome smile. Nice kid, plays the game the right way. We talking 4 or 5th option on offense? We assume if asked to shoot more his efficiency stays the same?
martin wrote:Yada yada probably would never go down but what would Nets ask for on this roster and including picks?Or what would you willing to give up? What’s a fair trade?
Zero clue what Simmons value is on open market - and I’m assuming negative contract - but he seems like toast? So he would be a salary save and then possible luxury tax save for team too if he is off roster.
Mikal would be a gigantic ask.
Agree about this ever going down.
Interesting thought though.
It would take matching salaries. Something like RJ, Rose, EF may work.
Getting Simmons to go with first unit would be interesting. No one likes him, including me but in a lineup with 3 strong scorers, he would add value on defense and ball movement.
Problem, as we saw in BK, is you just can't run 4 on 5 on offense. No matter how good your teammates are.
Other interesting thing would be to get picks back in return. Imagine may 1 though since we are including two guys that are making over $15per and not exactly valued.
Including Bridges would probably negate any picks back
So essentially you are stuck trying to make Simmons fit and hope he returns to All Star year. Something he has yet to do on two teams.
I would say, we are too close to through this monkey wrench in.
Also feel RJ is being undervalued right now. Rightfully so but, at 22, no reason to hit the panic button. Imho.
EwingsGlass wrote:NYKMentality wrote:martin wrote:NYKMentality wrote:Why would anyone in their right basketball mind EVER trade away a 22 year old R.J. Barrett for a 26 year old Mikal Bridges?!?R.J. Barrett @ 22 years old (despite being 4 years younger) already averages more Career Points, more Career Assists and more Career Rebounds than a 26 year old Mikal Bridges.
Trust me when I say
🤣 It wouldn't take long before NYC completely turns on Mikal Bridges 😭
And Ben Simmons? Forget about it. lol. He'd easily become NYC's public enemy #1.
Cause Mikal is light years better than RJ?
Not according to career points per game, career assists per game and/or cares rebounds per game (he's not).
And if you wanna talk about "efficiency"? Look @ Mikal Bridges Shooting Percentages and Player Efficiency Rating @ only 22 and R.J. has him beat in that regard too.
PS: Mikal Bridges looked completely exposed against the Knicks without a HOF PG Chris Paul making his job 10x easier.
Volume is about opportunity. eFG and TS% show skill. Don’t spout points in a vacuum. How do each get their points. Barrett needs to get more efficient. We can tell 22 all day, but for 4 years he has been an inefficient scorer. He hasn’t taken that next step. Now, the rest of his development comes with a price tag.
Understand points. Would agree RJ needs to become more efficient and that he just needs to expand his role and be able to contribute in other ways besides scoring. Including assists, defense, all around hustle and shooting efficiency including 3pt shooting.
Do feel the 22 year old excuse has merit. Grant it, getting closer to not mattering. Especially if he does not show incremental improvement each year in aspects mentioned above.
In comparison with Bridges, think I see both sides. Bridges, I do not think is much better in terms of sharing the ball. Typically needs ball in his hands and likes to shoot. Do feel he has been a real good 3pt shooter and may be a better defender. Also feel judging him by how he played against us in one game is a bit deceiving. As is ignoring that he is on a new team and Nets seem to be flooded at wing position.
My gut feeling is that Bridges would fit better than RJ in our first unit. But think the FO is taking the right approach with their 3rd pick. But like I said, think that time horizon is quickly approaching where RJ has to show more to be seen as a future piece
Knickoftime wrote:martin wrote:Knickoftime wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:In this hypothetical, how many picks do you think the Nets would need to attach to get 4if of Simmons in a standalone trade?Right, that’s the crux of it and I have no idea, don’t keep up with his play at all.
The savings Brooklyn would realize would be for Ben’s $38m + $40m salary (assuming he is useless), luxury tax saving for next year.
In hypotheticals like these, always smart to check in with OKC.
Just $99m committed to 14 players.
They could absorb almost all of Simmmons' salary without sending much (if anything) back (optimal is that's the nets motivation) and take some of those sweet, sweet Suns unprotected picks off the nets hands.
A team like OKC would have to take in consideration the $40m in 2024 salary for Ben, and it would (most likely?) put them into the luxury for that year. Tough swallow for them perhaps?
Luxury tax threshold is $162m in 2023-24, and likely higher in 2024-25.
They have room to play. And THAT's assuming they keep SVA both years.
Aren’t both Shai and Simmons on Designated Rookie Max, meaning neither team can trade for the other while they have a Designated Rookie Max contract on their books?
Simmons clogs the ability to get another star on a designated rookie contract. Hard to trade that contract right now without a change to that performance.
Knickoftime wrote:martin wrote:Knickoftime wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:In this hypothetical, how many picks do you think the Nets would need to attach to get 4if of Simmons in a standalone trade?Right, that’s the crux of it and I have no idea, don’t keep up with his play at all.
The savings Brooklyn would realize would be for Ben’s $38m + $40m salary (assuming he is useless), luxury tax saving for next year.
In hypotheticals like these, always smart to check in with OKC.
Just $99m committed to 14 players.
They could absorb almost all of Simmmons' salary without sending much (if anything) back (optimal is that's the nets motivation) and take some of those sweet, sweet Suns unprotected picks off the nets hands.
A team like OKC would have to take in consideration the $40m in 2024 salary for Ben, and it would (most likely?) put them into the luxury for that year. Tough swallow for them perhaps?
Luxury tax threshold is $162m in 2023-24, and likely higher in 2024-25.
They have room to play. And THAT's assuming they keep SVA both years.
How much room do you expect them to have?
And why would you expect OKC to use cap space on a non player when they already have all those picks from LAC and Westbrook versus using cap space to build up a team on the rise?
You expect them to not keep SGA?
Nalod wrote:Bridges should have been drafted by us.
I get it. He is one of the best “grass is greener” type players.
Josh Hart is getting so much hype now. Media today comparing him to Jimmy Butler.
Wow, are we so desperate as a fan base that we have to hype things up and then be so disappointed when things sometimes regress?
Fans, not the FO.
No thought to fixing Randle last year, just dump him.
Same with RJ.
Its all good for now, but knicks go on a three game losing streak y’all want Hart minutes cut, and Deuce to start? Same for IQ. We love our under hyped rooks.
Bridges is a good glue guy and has always been hyped given his Villinova role and handsome smile. Nice kid, plays the game the right way. We talking 4 or 5th option on offense? We assume if asked to shoot more his efficiency stays the same?
Brides is a well established wing player who never misses games, is an all defensive player type, and also shoots REALLY well. Oh and he is fairly well established as a playoff experienced player fitting in an around REALLY good players?
I'm looking at his game and plugging him right in and not changing, asking or expecting one thing different from him.
Grass is greener? How about he is a legit high level role type player who would fit seamlessly with the starters, matches Thibs and what the Knicks are doing, and the modern game.
Or maybe you are just not familiar with Bridges game?
I'm not trading away the farm for "Mikal Bridges" and/or giving Brooklyn a gigantic asking price.
Let's see if a 26 year old Mikal Bridges has it within him to lead his Brooklyn Nets rebuilding team to the Playoffs similar to how Julius Randle did for a rebuilding Knicks team bank in 2020-2021 because right now it's not looking too good for the Mikal Bridges led Nets...
NYKMentality wrote:And we've now got Josh Hart for the exact role playing type of role player that you just described.I'm not trading away the farm for "Mikal Bridges" and/or giving Brooklyn a gigantic asking price.
Let's see if a 26 year old Mikal Bridges has it within him to lead his Brooklyn Nets rebuilding team to the Playoffs similar to how Julius Randle did for a rebuilding Knicks team bank in 2020-2021 because right now it's not looking too good for the Mikal Bridges led Nets...
He won't lead the Nets. He is not good enough. Mikal and Randle are in 2 separate classes of players. No GM looks at Mikal and expects and wants to build around him in the way you are talking.
Mikal is a role player. Randle is way above that.
I view Mikal and Hart differently. This is through the lens of building a championship level team. I think Hart is a perfect 6th man type; high energy guy who can go in bursts, fill in a spot starter.
NYKMentality wrote:And we've now got Josh Hart for the exact role playing type of role player that you just described.I'm not trading away the farm for "Mikal Bridges" and/or giving Brooklyn a gigantic asking price.
Let's see if a 26 year old Mikal Bridges has it within him to lead his Brooklyn Nets rebuilding team to the Playoffs similar to how Julius Randle did for a rebuilding Knicks team bank in 2020-2021 because right now it's not looking too good for the Mikal Bridges led Nets...
Holy rush to judgement Batman. It’s been 2 games. That roster fit is a tough one, but you can get an idea who they are auditioning to stay. They really threw their coach a grenade and he’s going to have to figure it out on the fly.
Bridges is a high IQ role player who plays a position of need. He has value and is going to be in demand if he’s made available.
Knixkik wrote:martin wrote:NYKMentality wrote:Why would anyone in their right basketball mind EVER trade away a 22 year old R.J. Barrett for a 26 year old Mikal Bridges?!?R.J. Barrett @ 22 years old (despite being 4 years younger) already averages more Career Points, more Career Assists and more Career Rebounds than a 26 year old Mikal Bridges.
Trust me when I say
🤣 It wouldn't take long before NYC completely turns on Mikal Bridges 😭
And Ben Simmons? Forget about it. lol. He'd easily become NYC's public enemy #1.
Cause Mikal is light years better than RJ in pretty much every aspect of the game?
I have always like him, but did you watch him against the Knicks ? Same poor shooting and got destroyed defensively by Brunson. Just saying if we had him people would turn on him the same way. Just like Barrett this year and Randle last year. And I would consider trading Barrett for bridges, but bridges is going to bring plenty of stinkers just like Barrett.
Brunson has destroyed everyone recently.
Does anyone remember Brunson's last game against the Knicks? He STUNK. Just for perspective.
https://www.espn.com/nba/game/_/gameId/4...
I don't know what type of value you get from watching a player who just got traded to a team whose whole roster is completely different and full of wildly overlapping type players who all probably haven't even had 1 practice together?
Adding Mikal would be in the same strain as adding Hart, but as a SF starter.
EwingsGlass wrote:Knickoftime wrote:martin wrote:Knickoftime wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:In this hypothetical, how many picks do you think the Nets would need to attach to get 4if of Simmons in a standalone trade?Right, that’s the crux of it and I have no idea, don’t keep up with his play at all.
The savings Brooklyn would realize would be for Ben’s $38m + $40m salary (assuming he is useless), luxury tax saving for next year.
In hypotheticals like these, always smart to check in with OKC.
Just $99m committed to 14 players.
They could absorb almost all of Simmmons' salary without sending much (if anything) back (optimal is that's the nets motivation) and take some of those sweet, sweet Suns unprotected picks off the nets hands.
A team like OKC would have to take in consideration the $40m in 2024 salary for Ben, and it would (most likely?) put them into the luxury for that year. Tough swallow for them perhaps?
Luxury tax threshold is $162m in 2023-24, and likely higher in 2024-25.
They have room to play. And THAT's assuming they keep SVA both years.
Aren’t both Shai and Simmons on Designated Rookie Max, meaning neither team can trade for the other while they have a Designated Rookie Max contract on their books?
Simmons clogs the ability to get another star on a designated rookie contract. Hard to trade that contract right now without a change to that performance.
Perhaps, didn't dig that deep. Good point. Guess it would be IF SGA is moved.
Mitch, Randle, Mikal, Grimes, Brunson. Deuce, IQ, Hart, Ben, iHart. You of course assume Thibs will play Randle 40+ minutes with Ben getting the remaining.
It is a wild high level of perimeter shooting and (more importantly) coverage. It makes the paint wide open for the likes of Randle and Brunson.
You got guys who can smother 1-3 and fly around the perimeter. You got guys who want to pummel you. You got rebounding up the wazoo.
For me, it's a modern Knicks 90's team.