For me, adding a Mikal type moves NY into the range of solidifying at least a 6th seed moving forward (and probably up to the 3 seed range with internal improvement), that's their floor with all things being equal.
Mitch, Randle, Mikal, Grimes, Brunson. Deuce, IQ, Hart, Ben, iHart. You of course assume Thibs will play Randle 40+ minutes with Ben getting the remaining.
It is a wild high level of perimeter shooting and (more importantly) coverage. It makes the paint wide open for the likes of Randle and Brunson.
You got guys who can smother 1-3 and fly around the perimeter. You got guys who want to pummel you. You got rebounding up the wazoo.
For me, it's a modern Knicks 90's team.
martin wrote:For me, adding a Mikal type moves NY into the range of solidifying at least a 6th seed moving forward (and probably up to the 3 seed range with internal improvement), that's their floor with all things being equal.Mitch, Randle, Mikal, Grimes, Brunson. Deuce, IQ, Hart, Ben, iHart. You of course assume Thibs will play Randle 40+ minutes with Ben getting the remaining.
It is a wild high level of perimeter shooting and (more importantly) coverage. It makes the paint wide open for the likes of Randle and Brunson.
You got guys who can smother 1-3 and fly around the perimeter. You got guys who want to pummel you. You got rebounding up the wazoo.
For me, it's a modern Knicks 90's team.
I think we would still need more offense. Especially if we arent adding an elite player. Too many on that last who cant be relied on for scoring.
GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:For me, adding a Mikal type moves NY into the range of solidifying at least a 6th seed moving forward (and probably up to the 3 seed range with internal improvement), that's their floor with all things being equal.Mitch, Randle, Mikal, Grimes, Brunson. Deuce, IQ, Hart, Ben, iHart. You of course assume Thibs will play Randle 40+ minutes with Ben getting the remaining.
It is a wild high level of perimeter shooting and (more importantly) coverage. It makes the paint wide open for the likes of Randle and Brunson.
You got guys who can smother 1-3 and fly around the perimeter. You got guys who want to pummel you. You got rebounding up the wazoo.
For me, it's a modern Knicks 90's team.
I think we would still need more offense. Especially if we arent adding an elite player. Too many on that last who cant be relied on for scoring.
For sure.
I am removing 2 guys who really don't fit the "relied on for scoring" 
martin wrote:For me, adding a Mikal type moves NY into the range of solidifying at least a 6th seed moving forward (and probably up to the 3 seed range with internal improvement), that's their floor with all things being equal.Mitch, Randle, Mikal, Grimes, Brunson. Deuce, IQ, Hart, Ben, iHart. You of course assume Thibs will play Randle 40+ minutes with Ben getting the remaining.
It is a wild high level of perimeter shooting and (more importantly) coverage. It makes the paint wide open for the likes of Randle and Brunson.
You got guys who can smother 1-3 and fly around the perimeter. You got guys who want to pummel you. You got rebounding up the wazoo.
For me, it's a modern Knicks 90's team.
I agree.. it would be a really good squad, but feel capped a bit and lacks the top heavy talent it (seems to) take to win a chip. Its a good next move but I dont think it's realistic.
I'm pretty convinced it's gonna be Towns. We'll move RJ/Obi/IHart/McBride and a bunch of picks and take on KAT and his stupid contract without totally wrecking our roster.
I would be pretty good with a "finished product" that looked something like this rotation:
Brunson/Grimes/JHart/Jules/KAT
bench: IQ/Mitch/pick-a-wing (maybe Fournier cause nykmentalcase loves him)
Whoever takes Simmons wins NBA's biggest brass gonads award
I was talking with a friend (celts fan). Seems like a celtics move. potential Giannis stopper. they have all scoring they need with Brown and Tatum
no idea how they could swallow the contract though
martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:For me, adding a Mikal type moves NY into the range of solidifying at least a 6th seed moving forward (and probably up to the 3 seed range with internal improvement), that's their floor with all things being equal.Mitch, Randle, Mikal, Grimes, Brunson. Deuce, IQ, Hart, Ben, iHart. You of course assume Thibs will play Randle 40+ minutes with Ben getting the remaining.
It is a wild high level of perimeter shooting and (more importantly) coverage. It makes the paint wide open for the likes of Randle and Brunson.
You got guys who can smother 1-3 and fly around the perimeter. You got guys who want to pummel you. You got rebounding up the wazoo.
For me, it's a modern Knicks 90's team.
I think we would still need more offense. Especially if we arent adding an elite player. Too many on that last who cant be relied on for scoring.
For sure.
I am removing 2 guys who really don't fit the "relied on for scoring"
Im not, if this is the best I believe I can do.
I like Deuce, but his D isnt enough to justify keeping him beyond this season. Simmons apparently told the Sixers FO that it was him or Embid (on ESPN) not long after his epic choke job. Then he played games with the team about practice.
Nevermind the bad attitude, the man is shook. Thats not going to help morale.
martin wrote:Knickoftime wrote:martin wrote:Knickoftime wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:In this hypothetical, how many picks do you think the Nets would need to attach to get 4if of Simmons in a standalone trade?
Right, that’s the crux of it and I have no idea, don’t keep up with his play at all.
The savings Brooklyn would realize would be for Ben’s $38m + $40m salary (assuming he is useless), luxury tax saving for next year.
In hypotheticals like these, always smart to check in with OKC.
Just $99m committed to 14 players.
They could absorb almost all of Simmmons' salary without sending much (if anything) back (optimal is that's the nets motivation) and take some of those sweet, sweet Suns unprotected picks off the nets hands.
A team like OKC would have to take in consideration the $40m in 2024 salary for Ben, and it would (most likely?) put them into the luxury for that year. Tough swallow for them perhaps?
Luxury tax threshold is $162m in 2023-24, and likely higher in 2024-25.
They have room to play. And THAT's assuming they keep SVA both years.
How much room do you expect them to have?
$99m is their 2023 cap figure accounting for 14 players. So that's $35m in pure cap room with a full roster an $63m under the luxury tax threshold. $120m will be the floor. So the team more or less HAS to spend $21m one way or another.
Taking on a salary for picks is their MO.
And why would you expect OKC to use cap space on a non player when they already have all those picks from LAC and Westbrook versus using cap space to build up a team on the rise?
See above. Holmgren missed the year, presti knows at best their still 2-3 years from really competing. And more picks just means more means to add a big piece when the time comes to legit compete.
You expect them to not keep SGA?
I don't expect. It's a possibility if he doesn't fit the timeline. What if they beat the odds and score a top pick this year? Does that alter their timeline.
Either way they have cap room they NEED to spend, plenty of room under the cap with a full roster, and a big cushion under the luxury tax threshold, and history of doing that very kind of thing.
fishmike wrote:martin wrote:For me, adding a Mikal type moves NY into the range of solidifying at least a 6th seed moving forward (and probably up to the 3 seed range with internal improvement), that's their floor with all things being equal.Mitch, Randle, Mikal, Grimes, Brunson. Deuce, IQ, Hart, Ben, iHart. You of course assume Thibs will play Randle 40+ minutes with Ben getting the remaining.
It is a wild high level of perimeter shooting and (more importantly) coverage. It makes the paint wide open for the likes of Randle and Brunson.
You got guys who can smother 1-3 and fly around the perimeter. You got guys who want to pummel you. You got rebounding up the wazoo.
For me, it's a modern Knicks 90's team.
I agree.. it would be a really good squad, but feel capped a bit and lacks the top heavy talent it (seems to) take to win a chip. Its a good next move but I dont think it's realistic. I'm pretty convinced it's gonna be Towns. We'll move RJ/Obi/IHart/McBride and a bunch of picks and take on KAT and his stupid contract without totally wrecking our roster.
I would be pretty good with a "finished product" that looked something like this rotation:
Brunson/Grimes/JHart/Jules/KAT
bench: IQ/Mitch/pick-a-wing (maybe Fournier cause nykmentalcase loves him)
The Towns logic escapes me.
Not the interior defender the head coach wants and the team needs.
GustavBahler wrote:I like Deuce, but his D isnt enough to justify keeping him beyond this season.
Nope.
His $1.8m salary, the fact Thibs luvs him and and his status as a second year player who might not be anywhere near his potential offensive ceiling is.
fishmike wrote:martin wrote:For me, adding a Mikal type moves NY into the range of solidifying at least a 6th seed moving forward (and probably up to the 3 seed range with internal improvement), that's their floor with all things being equal.Mitch, Randle, Mikal, Grimes, Brunson. Deuce, IQ, Hart, Ben, iHart. You of course assume Thibs will play Randle 40+ minutes with Ben getting the remaining.
It is a wild high level of perimeter shooting and (more importantly) coverage. It makes the paint wide open for the likes of Randle and Brunson.
You got guys who can smother 1-3 and fly around the perimeter. You got guys who want to pummel you. You got rebounding up the wazoo.
For me, it's a modern Knicks 90's team.
I agree.. it would be a really good squad, but feel capped a bit and lacks the top heavy talent it (seems to) take to win a chip. Its a good next move but I dont think it's realistic. I'm pretty convinced it's gonna be Towns. We'll move RJ/Obi/IHart/McBride and a bunch of picks and take on KAT and his stupid contract without totally wrecking our roster.
I would be pretty good with a "finished product" that looked something like this rotation:
Brunson/Grimes/JHart/Jules/KAT
bench: IQ/Mitch/pick-a-wing (maybe Fournier cause nykmentalcase loves him)
I'm for the same type of trade but for Embiib.
martin wrote:fishmike wrote:martin wrote:For me, adding a Mikal type moves NY into the range of solidifying at least a 6th seed moving forward (and probably up to the 3 seed range with internal improvement), that's their floor with all things being equal.Mitch, Randle, Mikal, Grimes, Brunson. Deuce, IQ, Hart, Ben, iHart. You of course assume Thibs will play Randle 40+ minutes with Ben getting the remaining.
It is a wild high level of perimeter shooting and (more importantly) coverage. It makes the paint wide open for the likes of Randle and Brunson.
You got guys who can smother 1-3 and fly around the perimeter. You got guys who want to pummel you. You got rebounding up the wazoo.
For me, it's a modern Knicks 90's team.
I agree.. it would be a really good squad, but feel capped a bit and lacks the top heavy talent it (seems to) take to win a chip. Its a good next move but I dont think it's realistic. I'm pretty convinced it's gonna be Towns. We'll move RJ/Obi/IHart/McBride and a bunch of picks and take on KAT and his stupid contract without totally wrecking our roster.
I would be pretty good with a "finished product" that looked something like this rotation:
Brunson/Grimes/JHart/Jules/KAT
bench: IQ/Mitch/pick-a-wing (maybe Fournier cause nykmentalcase loves him)
I'm for the same type of trade but for Embiib.
sure but the problem is cost. Towns and his contract/injury make him attainable IMO. Joel's got the same "issues" but I think Phili knows they are trash without him and no way he goes to the Knicks in any deal that doesnt bankrupt our assets for 30 years. I just cant envision a NY/Phili trade that works.
I do think Minn can retool around Edwards/Gobert add some perimeter beef and have a good squad post Towns (we could come up with a trade that helps both team). Phili is just gonna want you to gut your roster for the sake of gutting it
fishmike wrote:martin wrote:fishmike wrote:martin wrote:For me, adding a Mikal type moves NY into the range of solidifying at least a 6th seed moving forward (and probably up to the 3 seed range with internal improvement), that's their floor with all things being equal.Mitch, Randle, Mikal, Grimes, Brunson. Deuce, IQ, Hart, Ben, iHart. You of course assume Thibs will play Randle 40+ minutes with Ben getting the remaining.
It is a wild high level of perimeter shooting and (more importantly) coverage. It makes the paint wide open for the likes of Randle and Brunson.
You got guys who can smother 1-3 and fly around the perimeter. You got guys who want to pummel you. You got rebounding up the wazoo.
For me, it's a modern Knicks 90's team.
I agree.. it would be a really good squad, but feel capped a bit and lacks the top heavy talent it (seems to) take to win a chip. Its a good next move but I dont think it's realistic. I'm pretty convinced it's gonna be Towns. We'll move RJ/Obi/IHart/McBride and a bunch of picks and take on KAT and his stupid contract without totally wrecking our roster.
I would be pretty good with a "finished product" that looked something like this rotation:
Brunson/Grimes/JHart/Jules/KAT
bench: IQ/Mitch/pick-a-wing (maybe Fournier cause nykmentalcase loves him)
I'm for the same type of trade but for Embiib.
sure but the problem is cost. Towns and his contract/injury make him attainable IMO. Joel's got the same "issues" but I think Phili knows they are trash without him and no way he goes to the Knicks in any deal that doesnt bankrupt our assets for 30 years. I just cant envision a NY/Phili trade that works.I do think Minn can retool around Edwards/Gobert add some perimeter beef and have a good squad post Towns (we could come up with a trade that helps both team). Phili is just gonna want you to gut your roster for the sake of gutting it
I think any Embiib trade is pushed to the forefront IF Harden moves to Houston. If if if that happens, Embiid and probably Tobias will be shipped to wherever Embiid wants to start The Process all over again would be my guess.
Knickoftime wrote:GustavBahler wrote:I like Deuce, but his D isnt enough to justify keeping him beyond this season.
Nope.
His $1.8m salary, the fact Thibs luvs him and and his status as a second year player who might not be anywhere near his potential offensive ceiling is.
Thats optmistic to say the least. If we dont see more than a brief glimpse of McBride's alleged unrealized potential. We can find players just as good in G-league, who can also put pts on the board.
GustavBahler wrote:Knickoftime wrote:GustavBahler wrote:I like Deuce, but his D isnt enough to justify keeping him beyond this season.
Nope.
His $1.8m salary, the fact Thibs luvs him and and his status as a second year player who might not be anywhere near his potential offensive ceiling is.
Thats optmistic to say the least. If we dont see more than a brief glimpse of McBride's alleged unrealized potential. We can find players just as good in G-league, who can also put pts on the board.
I think the general consensus from what we can gather is that the Knicks love Deuce, especially at his price. He is the perfect end of bench guy with potential to get rotation minutes.
martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Knickoftime wrote:GustavBahler wrote:I like Deuce, but his D isnt enough to justify keeping him beyond this season.
Nope.
His $1.8m salary, the fact Thibs luvs him and and his status as a second year player who might not be anywhere near his potential offensive ceiling is.
Thats optmistic to say the least. If we dont see more than a brief glimpse of McBride's alleged unrealized potential. We can find players just as good in G-league, who can also put pts on the board.
I think the general consensus from what we can gather is that the Knicks love Deuce, especially at his price. He is the perfect end of bench guy with potential to get rotation minutes.
I get that part, I do. I believe to contend, we need as many rotation players as feasible, who can step up and score. When the D is daring them to.
Is McBride that kind of player? I'd like to see more evidence of that this season before the FO commits to Deuce beyond this season.
GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Knickoftime wrote:GustavBahler wrote:I like Deuce, but his D isnt enough to justify keeping him beyond this season.
Nope.
His $1.8m salary, the fact Thibs luvs him and and his status as a second year player who might not be anywhere near his potential offensive ceiling is.
Thats optmistic to say the least. If we dont see more than a brief glimpse of McBride's alleged unrealized potential. We can find players just as good in G-league, who can also put pts on the board.
I think the general consensus from what we can gather is that the Knicks love Deuce, especially at his price. He is the perfect end of bench guy with potential to get rotation minutes.
I get that part, I do. I believe to contend, we need as many rotation players as feasible, who can step up and score. When the D is daring them to.
Is McBride that kind of player? I'd like to see more evidence of that this season before the FO commits to Deuce beyond this season.
The Knicks FO will take your approval into consideration
GustavBahler wrote:Knickoftime wrote:GustavBahler wrote:I like Deuce, but his D isnt enough to justify keeping him beyond this season.
Nope.
His $1.8m salary, the fact Thibs luvs him and and his status as a second year player who might not be anywhere near his potential offensive ceiling is.
Thats optmistic to say the least. If we dont see more than a brief glimpse of McBride's alleged unrealized potential. We can find players just as good in G-league, who can also put pts on the board.
Again, his salary will be $1.8m, which is effectively a wash cap wise with a minimum salary. And defense is NOT a fungible skill anyone in the G league has.
Add to it continuity, the locker room, the role, and the fact the Knicks aren't even 15 deep even if Thibs wasn't a 9-10 rotation guy, there's just no compelling reason not to let him play out his third year.
Whatever hypothetical G league player who may or may not be more productive offensively can exist WITH McBride. Doesn't need to replace him.
martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Knickoftime wrote:GustavBahler wrote:I like Deuce, but his D isnt enough to justify keeping him beyond this season.
Nope.
His $1.8m salary, the fact Thibs luvs him and and his status as a second year player who might not be anywhere near his potential offensive ceiling is.
Thats optmistic to say the least. If we dont see more than a brief glimpse of McBride's alleged unrealized potential. We can find players just as good in G-league, who can also put pts on the board.
I think the general consensus from what we can gather is that the Knicks love Deuce, especially at his price. He is the perfect end of bench guy with potential to get rotation minutes.
I get that part, I do. I believe to contend, we need as many rotation players as feasible, who can step up and score. When the D is daring them to.
Is McBride that kind of player? I'd like to see more evidence of that this season before the FO commits to Deuce beyond this season.
The Knicks FO will take your approval into consideration
Booo lol I said it was the FO's call, not mine.
GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Knickoftime wrote:GustavBahler wrote:I like Deuce, but his D isnt enough to justify keeping him beyond this season.
Nope.
His $1.8m salary, the fact Thibs luvs him and and his status as a second year player who might not be anywhere near his potential offensive ceiling is.
Thats optmistic to say the least. If we dont see more than a brief glimpse of McBride's alleged unrealized potential. We can find players just as good in G-league, who can also put pts on the board.
I think the general consensus from what we can gather is that the Knicks love Deuce, especially at his price. He is the perfect end of bench guy with potential to get rotation minutes.
I get that part, I do. I believe to contend, we need as many rotation players as feasible, who can step up and score. When the D is daring them to.
Is McBride that kind of player? I'd like to see more evidence of that this season before the FO commits to Deuce beyond this season.
I think you're overstating/overestimating a $1.8m salary and at best being the 11th-12th guy off the bench and at worst being 14-15.
14-15 guys are towel wavers on most teams and especially on this team.
At worst, McBride can wave a towel as good as anyone in the G league.
GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Knickoftime wrote:GustavBahler wrote:I like Deuce, but his D isnt enough to justify keeping him beyond this season.
Nope.
His $1.8m salary, the fact Thibs luvs him and and his status as a second year player who might not be anywhere near his potential offensive ceiling is.
Thats optmistic to say the least. If we dont see more than a brief glimpse of McBride's alleged unrealized potential. We can find players just as good in G-league, who can also put pts on the board.
I think the general consensus from what we can gather is that the Knicks love Deuce, especially at his price. He is the perfect end of bench guy with potential to get rotation minutes.
I get that part, I do. I believe to contend, we need as many rotation players as feasible, who can step up and score. When the D is daring them to.
Is McBride that kind of player? I'd like to see more evidence of that this season before the FO commits to Deuce beyond this season.
The Knicks FO will take your approval into consideration
Booo lol I said it was the FO's call, not mine.
Right, but you need to see more evidence before they commit lol
They see him every day and you know Thibs sleeps in the gym
Knickoftime wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Knickoftime wrote:GustavBahler wrote:I like Deuce, but his D isnt enough to justify keeping him beyond this season.
Nope.
His $1.8m salary, the fact Thibs luvs him and and his status as a second year player who might not be anywhere near his potential offensive ceiling is.
Thats optmistic to say the least. If we dont see more than a brief glimpse of McBride's alleged unrealized potential. We can find players just as good in G-league, who can also put pts on the board.
Again, his salary will be $1.8m, which is effectively a wash cap wise with a minimum salary. And defense is NOT a fungible skill anyone in the G league has.
Add to it continuity, the locker room, the role, and the fact the Knicks aren't even 15 deep even if Thibs wasn't a 9-10 rotation guy, there's just no compelling reason not to let him play out his third year.
Whatever hypothetical G league player who may or may not be more productive offensively can exist WITH McBride. Doesn't need to replace him.
One reason Hart is already eating into Deuce's minutes, is because he can play D and score. Good defenders arent a dime a dozen in the G-league, but I wouldnt call them a rare commodity either.
Sure, Deuce may get better, I just like to see more evidence that its the right call this season to stick to the plan.
If Thibs had more of a two way player in the rotation. That player would probably take some of McBride's minutes as well.
