So, I have been hearing a lot in the wake of the mammoth contract given to OG that the Knicks' cap flexibility will be shot to hell for years to come regardless. Now I hear that Brunson's mammoth concession gives us cap flex. This has me a bit confused. How does this work? Will we have flex or not? Is it correct to say that we plan to be above the first apron but below the second one? How big is the risk of our first rounder being relegated to #30?
Clean@ 7/15/2024 10:00 AM
ESOMKnicks wrote:So, I have been hearing a lot in the wake of the mammoth contract given to OG that the Knicks' cap flexibility will be shot to hell for years to come regardless. Now I hear that Brunson's mammoth concession gives us cap flex. This has me a bit confused. How does this work? Will we have flex or not? Is it correct to say that we plan to be above the first apron but below the second one? How big is the risk of our first rounder being relegated to #30?
I am going to put it short/simple as I can since its been said a lot. The Brunson extension allows us to stay under the 2nd apron for longer than if he took the delayed extension. Don't expect us to sign big money free agents or anything but we will have a lot more tools we can use to upgrade our roster. The penalties that teams get once they are over the 2nd apron makes it so you can't upgrade your team. The longer you are over the 2nd apron the more penalties we get.
We are eventually going to go WAY over the 2nd apron once all the upcoming extentions kick in. We are essentially trying to set our team up for the long haul before that happens. iHart leaving was a huge blow. This allows us to try and fix the hole him leaving left us before are we no longer able to because of the 2nd apron penalties.
martin@ 7/15/2024 11:32 AM
Clean wrote:
ESOMKnicks wrote:So, I have been hearing a lot in the wake of the mammoth contract given to OG that the Knicks' cap flexibility will be shot to hell for years to come regardless. Now I hear that Brunson's mammoth concession gives us cap flex. This has me a bit confused. How does this work? Will we have flex or not? Is it correct to say that we plan to be above the first apron but below the second one? How big is the risk of our first rounder being relegated to #30?
I am going to put it short/simple as I can since its been said a lot. The Brunson extension allows us to stay under the 2nd apron for longer than if he took the delayed extension. Don't expect us to sign big money free agents or anything but we will have a lot more tools we can use to upgrade our roster. The penalties that teams get once they are over the 2nd apron makes it so you can't upgrade your team. The longer you are over the 2nd apron the more penalties we get.
We are eventually going to go WAY over the 2nd apron once all the upcoming extentions kick in. We are essentially trying to set our team up for the long haul before that happens. iHart leaving was a huge blow. This allows us to try and fix the hole him leaving left us before are we no longer able to because of the 2nd apron penalties.
IMHO This is the reason Knicks are exploring what the Randle extension looks like. Not in a bad or good way, they are just trying to figure out what he’d like and try to fit him and everyone under that second apron.
If Randle eases just slightly, I’d guess that the FO will do their best squeeze him in. If he wants a max, they have to explore moving him because they’ll be too hamstrung cap wise.
BigDaddyG@ 7/15/2024 4:40 PM
It's amazing how functional OG makes the offense looks. It's not that he's good at moving off ball. But he's s also good at creating passing lanes that make it easy for his teammates to find him.
martin@ 7/15/2024 4:45 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:It's amazing how functional OG makes the offense looks. It's not that he's good at moving off ball. But he's s also good at creating passing lanes that make it easy for his teammates to find him.
Spacing. Same with iHart. Those guys just know where to move to help others. Gonna miss that at the C position. In combination with others it's magical.
MaTT4281@ 7/15/2024 6:27 PM
martin wrote: Spacing. Same with iHart. Those guys just know where to move to help others. Gonna miss that at the C position. In combination with others it's magical.
Have no fear, iHuk is coming.
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This is good, fair and deserved. We all know it started with Randle. He chose us. It’s been up and down, but I really think that this iteration of the team can be the defining “up” in Randle’s NY story. He has the talent, has put up the numbers, and in a team so talented, a more relaxed Randle, like the one in January, could make this team reach great heights.
For all the Dolan hate over the years, there have always been whispers about him being great to the players and it’s good to see that we can possibly enter an era where we can mostly be positive about every aspect of this team.
Nalod@ 7/16/2024 7:48 AM
Kenyon is correct that Dolan was not the issue, it was the front office end he alluded to Isiah as being an influence that was around for a long time. Dolan loyalty goes far. He was very into Vin Baker given their shared substance abuse issues. He was very supportive of giving Spree a second chance but that ended badly as I believe Spree defiance angered Dolan and hence why Spree was so awful when he left and did his tirade on the court directed has his former boss. I also believe Starks abused Dolans good will at times. Jimmy does forgive. Oak being the exception. I side with Dolan here, and vs. Spree. Latrell crossed lines too far.
Lets not forget the legions of fans who called for Dolan to sell the team. Nalod used to get shit from posters when I sort of defended Dolan in that light as "you want a new owner that might be cash strapped or has to pay out a note? We hated on Dolan because he hired the FO!!!!! Get that right and get out of the way was our hopes!!!
Dolan backed Isiah and pushed back to defend him vs. Anucha. Eventually lost had to pay. It was an awful look. When protesting Dolan he hires Phil at the urging of his friend record mogul Irving Azoff. He paid an ungodly sum for Phil who kept saying "No" until he could not refuse the seductive riches put at his feet. Before that there was Grunwald, an Isiah extension of sorts and who could forget the way he hired Mills after he had McKinsey come thru to put that shit show in place, and months later pushes him down for Phil. It was bad stuff. No way to run an organization.
The only bad thing about Leon at first was that he was hired by Dolan so that "taint" had to be overcome. Team is succeeding and we love Dolan now.
Dolan left the finance/media committee last year as mentioned in articles which I guess was a telling act that the deal would not be favorable to him and other big market owners. If this deal equals out to some extent the revenue affect big market values as the had advantages historically with local TV revenue streams. I can see where he'd not be happy with this. Im sure "another whiney Billionaire" won't garner much support. This does pave the way for more expansion which will dilute revenue further. they will get a nice payment upfront but thats not much to Dolan/MSG. Too bad Knicks squandered the decades of advantage were we could have spent wisely instead of just freely!
martin@ 7/16/2024 8:12 AM
Also fair
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To be fair, we're talking opportunity cost as opposed to any actual loss, correct? Knicks were consistently in the top 3 of NBA franchise valuation during that stretch, mostly due to idiots like us who'll watch .350 basketball for a decade straight.
Looks like we had 3 negative years 04-07 in operating income (having some difficulty finding league numbers those years), but at least since 2011 we're head and shoulders above most teams.
To be fair, we're talking opportunity cost as opposed to any actual loss, correct? Knicks were consistently in the top 3 of NBA franchise valuation during that stretch, mostly due to idiots like us who'll watch .350 basketball for a decade straight.
Looks like we had 3 negative years 04-07 in operating income (having some difficulty finding league numbers those years), but at least since 2011 we're head and shoulders above most teams.
I do wonder how much the NBA places a firm hand to set the direction of their business; for me, it's a how much not an if. Lottery, player movement, agencies, tampering, CBA, etc.
Every business does their best to shape their own path. How much does the NBA FO do it?
I've always had the feel/understanding that having a healthy New York team would have super positive downstream affect for all teams. Maybe they just need enough big market teams or some other galvanizing story line or matchups.
martin@ 7/16/2024 12:36 PM
Pretty freakin good.
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Celtics only lost 4 games at home all regular season!!! Knicks muse and Tommy Beer are good at making stuff look better. That gammon April the Celtics really had checked out mentally of that one. We cold cocked them fast and they had not fight that game.
Nalod@ 7/17/2024 9:34 AM
martin wrote:
MaTT4281 wrote:
martin wrote:Also fair
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To be fair, we're talking opportunity cost as opposed to any actual loss, correct? Knicks were consistently in the top 3 of NBA franchise valuation during that stretch, mostly due to idiots like us who'll watch .350 basketball for a decade straight.
Looks like we had 3 negative years 04-07 in operating income (having some difficulty finding league numbers those years), but at least since 2011 we're head and shoulders above most teams.
I do wonder how much the NBA places a firm hand to set the direction of their business; for me, it's a how much not an if. Lottery, player movement, agencies, tampering, CBA, etc.
Every business does their best to shape their own path. How much does the NBA FO do it?
I've always had the feel/understanding that having a healthy New York team would have super positive downstream affect for all teams. Maybe they just need enough big market teams or some other galvanizing story line or matchups.
Remember when Knick fans used to think Stern and the league "hated" knicks or conspired against them?
Pehraps the revenue sharing Dolan mentions does hurt Knicks valuation as less revenue derived by local TV streams and other teams get a flatter % based on more games national. MSG did very well when bundled in cable packages but that model is also antiquated.
We used to think Small market teams could to provide a platform for stars to get international marketing deals. That proved incorrect when Durant and Giannis evolved into such from small markets. It seems like Durant dialed back his activity post OKC? I have no numbers to back it up. Part of it was back lash for leaving them as he did?
Dolan has a point that the revenue sharing and caps hurt big market teams both in profits and ability to spend freely. As we all know Knicks squandered many opportunities over a long time to do so effectively. That we succeed now is due to intelligence in our FO and patience by an owner who might have supported his teams financially but was known to meddle or make bad hiring in the FO.
Most pro sports are "collective" entities and have moved to level playing field when possible. Ironic we are finally getting things right!!!
martin@ 7/17/2024 3:00 PM
My impression is that Jake only has serious takes, so this is pretty heavy
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