Its a weird situation. Benching RJ would make him the number one option on the second unit. But that might cause friction. I doubt RJ would go for it.
In a way its good news. Maybe stagger the minutes differently. Or more value for RJ in a trade, if the FO believes its the right move.
Knicks already account for this by always playing RJ with the second unit. The reason he doesn’t play well with Brunson, and does with Randle, is more about the fact that RJ doesn’t feel comfortable as a #3 option. If Randle missed time (he hasn’t so RJ has never played exclusively with Brunson) the result would be similar. RJ still has the mentality of a star, and most teams only have 2 high usage guys at once. RJ is not a spot up shooter or off-ball mover. He’s a guy who wants his touches and gets pinched playing with 2 playmakers. RJ needs to continue to adjust to the role a third option would play for any team. Best example is someone like Mikal Bridges. He’s what a third option is so supposed to look like on a contender. What he did in Phoenix even though he’s proving he can be more in Brooklyn. RJ just simply is more comfortable as a second option than third at this point in his career.
Knixkik wrote:Knicks already account for this by always playing RJ with the second unit. The reason he doesn’t play well with Brunson, and does with Randle, is more about the fact that RJ doesn’t feel comfortable as a #3 option. If Randle missed time (he hasn’t so RJ has never played exclusively with Brunson) the result would be similar. RJ still has the mentality of a star, and most teams only have 2 high usage guys at once. RJ is not a spot up shooter or off-ball mover. He’s a guy who wants his touches and gets pinched playing with 2 playmakers. RJ needs to continue to adjust to the role a third option would play for any team. Best example is someone like Mikal Bridges. He’s what a third option is so supposed to look like on a contender. What he did in Phoenix even though he’s proving he can be more in Brooklyn. RJ just simply is more comfortable as a second option than third at this point in his career.
I hear you and agree with most, except the bold.
It's more than not wanting to be the 3rd option. RJ's game is better when he's on the ball. Same with Randle. Thats why I was skeptical of this big 3. We have 3 guys who all excel when the ball is in their hands. Brunson proved to be valuable without the ball, when he played in Dallas. But when Luka was out, he scored 40 plus in the playoffs. So clearly Brunson is a better scorer and impact player with the ball.
There's not enough balls to go around for RJ, when Brunson and Randle are on the floor. In the second unit, he's the first option. Will be interesting to see how the FO handles this. It's clear in Thibs mind, play RJ with second unit. I believe they did not know how impactful Brunson would be. But RJ's contract will kick in soon. IQ looking for a new contract, and so is Hart. The FO will get it's money worth, trying to handle all these new and existing contracts. Meanwhile Thib will continue to play his guys, regardless of their contract. Interesting dynamic. And it's something I've mentioned all season. Thibs and FO. RJ and the big 3.
Regardless, this team needs a focused RJ to make it past the 1st round. Or make the playoffs period.
I disagree. The entire team benefits from Brunson. We would struggle to make the play-in without him. RJ is not a reliable or efficient second go-to scorer yet so he too needs Brunson imo. RJ is at his best when he's not hunting shots and 20 ppg and concentrates more on defense and playmaking. He's a natural scorer so he's good for 18 plus in his sleep.
blkexec wrote:Knixkik wrote:Knicks already account for this by always playing RJ with the second unit. The reason he doesn’t play well with Brunson, and does with Randle, is more about the fact that RJ doesn’t feel comfortable as a #3 option. If Randle missed time (he hasn’t so RJ has never played exclusively with Brunson) the result would be similar. RJ still has the mentality of a star, and most teams only have 2 high usage guys at once. RJ is not a spot up shooter or off-ball mover. He’s a guy who wants his touches and gets pinched playing with 2 playmakers. RJ needs to continue to adjust to the role a third option would play for any team. Best example is someone like Mikal Bridges. He’s what a third option is so supposed to look like on a contender. What he did in Phoenix even though he’s proving he can be more in Brooklyn. RJ just simply is more comfortable as a second option than third at this point in his career.
I hear you and agree with most, except the bold.
It's more than not wanting to be the 3rd option. RJ's game is better when he's on the ball. Same with Randle. Thats why I was skeptical of this big 3. We have 3 guys who all excel when the ball is in their hands. Brunson proved to be valuable without the ball, when he played in Dallas. But when Luka was out, he scored 40 plus in the playoffs. So clearly Brunson is a better scorer and impact player with the ball.
There's not enough balls to go around for RJ, when Brunson and Randle are on the floor. In the second unit, he's the first option. Will be interesting to see how the FO handles this. It's clear in Thibs mind, play RJ with second unit. I believe they did not know how impactful Brunson would be. But RJ's contract will kick in soon. IQ looking for a new contract, and so is Hart. The FO will get it's money worth, trying to handle all these new and existing contracts. Meanwhile Thib will continue to play his guys, regardless of their contract. Interesting dynamic. And it's something I've mentioned all season. Thibs and FO. RJ and the big 3.
Regardless, this team needs a focused RJ to make it past the 1st round. Or make the playoffs period.
Its a good take and its something they need to figure out. We vilify players individually but there is much about chemistry. The EF/Randle thing did not work. We keep talking about how RJ is this, or RJ not that, but with Brunson the ball is not feeding into RJ were it did last year and him thriving. Thibs admitted to having to coach Randle better, and he did. Many fans thought Randle had to be dumped.
My take is we are very iso centric. Brunson and Randle. They are excelling. RJ role seems to be different this year. more iso and his outside shot when cold leaves him less dimensional.
What is the fix? Trade him? LOL, well, thats one way. "More Grimes and IQ"...........
Well, IQ too is thriving on the Iso. He is better playmaking this season but to what degree?
"Trade for OG".........He is very Josh Hart like.
Whats logical? RJ either "gets fixed", blends in as he matures, or gets traded. Traded not because he sucks balls or bleeds my eyes, its going to return a better piece to accomplish.
Thats all that matters, not who is right or can predict.
The key is not RJ leaving, its who comes in to fill that spot. Predict that, and I am impressed.
Might be IQ stepping in to start? Send Grimes to the bench? That works also.
Brunson and Randle are very good in half court sets but RJ, Toppin, IQ, etc seem to perform better playing at an increased tempo/faster. We really need both to excel so not sure if the answer is putting RJ in the 2nd unit or simply finding more starting minutes for IQ. I was big on Toppin for awhile because he promoted energy/ball movement until Thibs put him in time out (in the corners). We need Grimes and Mitch out there to offset our defensive deficiencies and outside shooting needs. Grimes seems too small for SF though - as he got picked on by guys like DeRozan and other SG/SF's with height and/or length. I think it again comes back to Randle or RJ as Brunson seems hear to stay for a very long time. Before this season I kept pushing for Randle to get moved - but to his credit he's played more efficiently and seems to fit better with Brunson. Unless the FO thinks IQ will get resigned and eventually start at PF (doubtful) - it may be time to move RJ for a better fit at SF this offseason. Not sure that Hart brings enough scoring but I would try him first. In the offseason - maybe a RJ + picks for OG may simply fit better.
RJ's two man lineups are -.9 with Brunson and -1.6 with Randle.He's plus 4.6 with Robinson. That makes him Robinson's 7th best partner. RJ's +2 with Quickly is Quickly's 8th best partner. Basically, advanced stats hate RJ.
Was really true for Randle vs Clips. Come back soon Brunson
My main problems with RJ is his defense has gotten really bad and he used to be actually good at it. He also get tunnel vision when he drives to the hoop. Too many plays he has someone open and he drives right into 2 or 3 defenders to brick a shot. The exception to this is lobs to mitch. If you are going to have tunnel vision at least be efficient or have good defense. RJ having none of the above is really frustrating.
Given how our success depends on player growth from within it looks like it's going to be all about RJ and Randle's growth. In RJ's case it's his game that's lacking while his mental condition is stellar. With Randle it's the opposite, if he is able to improve mentally his game seems to be in excellent shape
ramtour420 wrote:Given how our success depends on player growth from within it looks like it's going to be all about RJ and Randle's growth. In RJ's case it's his game that's lacking while his mental condition is stellar. With Randle it's the opposite, if he is able to improve mentally his game seems to be in excellent shape
Cant argue with your take or Clean's. I see RJ having trouble as the third option. He tries to do too much with those fewer touches. Barrett plays better when he is the main option, but he hasnt had much time doing it with Brunson/Randle dominating this season.
What worries me about Randle is how lost he looks at times without Brunson, and how gassed he was as well. Thats why some posters where arguing the minutes he was getting pre-Brunson were too much. Why Jules ran out of gas by that first round exit.
As others have mentioned, its looking like for the sake of chemistry, that one of them has to go. Unfortunately they both make a case to be traded. RJ's chemistry with Brunson/Randle. And Randle's regression without Brunson.
The team looks like its falling apart without Brunson, but I would say that its mostly Randle who is starting a "cascading failure".
I have a strong feeling either RJ or Randle will be moved in the offseason. Would have banked on it being RJ, with the monster season Randle is having.
Im guessing the FO is taking a wait amd see attitude about both players. The entire roster really, except Brunson.
Clean wrote:My main problems with RJ is his defense has gotten really bad and he used to be actually good at it. He also get tunnel vision when he drives to the hoop. Too many plays he has someone open and he drives right into 2 or 3 defenders to brick a shot. The exception to this is lobs to mitch. If you are going to have tunnel vision at least be efficient or have good defense. RJ having none of the above is really frustrating.
I know RJ is working well with Mitch but RJ seems to be the worst lob thrower of any NBA player I have ever watched. His passes are always either difficult or just so bad guys can’t get to them.
Has RJ ever been a good defender?
