Knicks · What is really wrong with RJ Barrett? Is there a deeper problem? (page 2)
EwingsGlass wrote:I’ve always considered it a conflict between Randle and Barrett. One needs to go. They aren’t playing team ball and with each other on the court they tend to hog the ball. It’s has a chilling effect on ball movement. I think the. All movement with both off the court should be considered.They either need an intervention or a dismissal in my opinion.
Randle is a nut job but the talent comparison isn’t close between RJ and Randle. Julius is far better talent.
This year I might even start to believe teammates may prefer to play with Julius - that’s some shift.
Nalod wrote:OP, its a good question. Seems to be hitting a wall of sorts.
Thing is, no body here is qualified to answer it. Y’all act like he never passes, never hits a thing, never rebounds, never plays defense,and ignores his coaches, and is a detriment to winning and the progress of the team.
I don't agree with this take at all Nalod. Why are you lumping everyone and every opinion into one big pot and then taking the extremes and pointing to that? Those things that you listed are for shit and no one is saying that. Or if they are, they are so extreme they are ignored already by most.
I think there are some good assessments out there and we can surely make them along the way in an informed manor.
If YOU are not qualified to answer or speak to some of the questions, so be it. But if you are lumping everyone into one pot, no thanks that's not for me.
martin wrote:Nalod wrote:OP, its a good question. Seems to be hitting a wall of sorts.
Thing is, no body here is qualified to answer it. Y’all act like he never passes, never hits a thing, never rebounds, never plays defense,and ignores his coaches, and is a detriment to winning and the progress of the team.I don't agree with this take at all Nalod. Why are you lumping everyone and every opinion into one big pot and then taking the extremes and pointing to that? Those things that you listed are for shit and no one is saying that. Or if they are, they are so extreme they are ignored already by most.
I think there are some good assessments out there and we can surely make them along the way in an informed manor.
If YOU are not qualified to answer or speak to some of the questions, so be it. But if you are lumping everyone into one pot, no thanks that's not for me.
Lumping the detractors who don’t give a balanced view. Sorry if it came across as universal.
Another view vs. Randle
Comparing him to Randle is a bit premature. Randle came to us at age 25 and then in year two was the present version. Still, he is better now than his all NBA season! Took him three teams and a lot of work to get his body to were it is now.
I don’t know if RJ can get there, but im hopeful.
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LivingLegend wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:I’ve always considered it a conflict between Randle and Barrett. One needs to go. They aren’t playing team ball and with each other on the court they tend to hog the ball. It’s has a chilling effect on ball movement. I think the. All movement with both off the court should be considered.They either need an intervention or a dismissal in my opinion.
Randle is a nut job but the talent comparison isn’t close between RJ and Randle. Julius is far better talent.
This year I might even start to believe teammates may prefer to play with Julius - that’s some shift.
Not sure teammates every hated disliked playing with Jules previously. Fans don't like the "black hole" but his mates?
I know he and EF had issues but it was mostly Jules not loving EF's slow cuts.
No conclusion here but just the context that shows how not so awful RJ has been.
I get the question about moving forward and the cause to it.
https://basketball.realgm.com/player/RJ-...
Chemistry. RJ comes out first and comes back in with second unit who is doing good. Again, I see the issues but also Im seeing knicks playing for 5th seed!
The chemistry highlights of Hart to Hart stands out.
Does one need to go? Perhaps. They are family for now. I'd be more inclined to an open mind when I can see a deal than an open concept.
Not too long ago E. Peyton started for our 4th seed squad but most of fan base knew we needed to fix that spot.
I hope I’m wrong on RJ - he’s a solid kid in my view. I sure as hell wasn’t right being on the Frank bandwagon.
KnickDanger wrote:Knicks on the upswing and going to the playoffs but we still need a whipping boy right? Always and forever. I am not in denial of RJ’s flaws. He’s a mixed bag who yep is still young. I will say this again - I’m glad he’s a Knick and not witness protection Zion or faux gangsta Ja.
It could be worse absolutely but we still got to address the elephant in the room. Nobody hates RJ but in 4 years we do have to start identifying flaws and how he must improve. Nobody has bashed him or prayed on his downnfall lool.
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KnickDanger wrote:The idea that you should get back to the weight and body shape you had when you were 18 seems far fetched to me. Getting lighter, quicker, more flexible is another matter.
I did like him better at the 2. It’s a better matchup for him.
EwingsGlass wrote:KnickDanger wrote:The idea that you should get back to the weight and body shape you had when you were 18 seems far fetched to me. Getting lighter, quicker, more flexible is another matter.I did like him better at the 2. It’s a better matchup for him.
He had some of the same issues with shot selection and finishing at the rim that he struggles with now. I don't think it's physical. He needs the game to slow down some more. He needs to be more instinctual.
Papabear wrote:Papabear SaysWhen I watch RJ play now all I see is me me me. He may see open guys and he won't pass the ball. I see things that he didn't do in his rookie and second year. Something is wrong and if we don't correct it we will have a bigger problem. Playing in New York can be really hard. All of the clubs and parties and girls. If you don't manage your play time you can get all caught up. Something is wrong with RJ he is wredkless and some times he is running into a brick wall and he will continue to do it. When he gets the ball he can have 3 guys on him and he will try to go through them without passing the ball. His shot selection getting worse. I hope he is not in the street life because it will destroy his career.
Assists, turnovers, and usage are all within 10% of his career averages, so I think your eyes are fitting your brains narrative. We all wish RJ could hit more 3's but long story short he's second on the team in minutes and the team is winning so he must be doing something right. He's become a more consistent scorer, only failing to hit double figures three times (edit). He's on the books for 23 million next season. Compare those numbers to Tobias Harris who's failed to hit double digit scoring a whopping 14 times. No reason to panic yet. Let's just hope he becomes a little bit better passer, defender, and free throw shooter. He's still young.
BigDaddyG wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:KnickDanger wrote:The idea that you should get back to the weight and body shape you had when you were 18 seems far fetched to me. Getting lighter, quicker, more flexible is another matter.I did like him better at the 2. It’s a better matchup for him.
He had some of the same issues with shot selection and finishing at the rim that he struggles with now. I don't think it's physical. He needs the game to slow down some more. He needs to be more instinctual.
He isn't a good fit. Knicks would be better off with another Josh Hart. Guys that contribute without scoring. Grimes and Hart do that, RJ doesn't. Knicks need a 3 and D specialist that can guard Tatum, Giannis. OG is the perfect fit for this team.
LivingLegend wrote:Some valid points Nalod.Not too long ago E. Peyton started for our 4th seed squad but most of fan base knew we needed to fix that spot.
I hope I’m wrong on RJ - he’s a solid kid in my view. I sure as hell wasn’t right being on the Frank bandwagon.
We made the 4th seed that year because RJ and Randle were both lights out excellent during the entire regular season. Elf had as much to do with it as Dickie Simpkins did with the bulls winning their second threepeat
Philc1 wrote:LivingLegend wrote:Some valid points Nalod.Not too long ago E. Peyton started for our 4th seed squad but most of fan base knew we needed to fix that spot.
I hope I’m wrong on RJ - he’s a solid kid in my view. I sure as hell wasn’t right being on the Frank bandwagon.
We made the 4th seed that year because RJ and Randle were both lights out excellent during the entire regular season. Elf had as much to do with it as Dickie Simpkins did with the bulls winning their second threepeat
Dickie started 17 games in the Three peat era on one of the greatest teams in history Stacked with a Goat and 3 other HOF players.
Elf started 63 games in the 4 seed season. Nobody said he was the straw that stirred the drink. But he was in the glass.
This year RJ plays second most minutes and avg over 19 per game in his 4th season on a team that wildly succeeded beyond expectations as the third option. Weakest link? Not sure I’d go there but not a knick fan on the planet is blind to his issues, but also his strengths. I have confidence he will not be the reason we don’t win a chip. Next year,, if there is one for him as a knick he needs to reduce his turnovers just a bit, and get that outside shot back in the high 30% range.
Its easy to say we need a better player at that position but another to actually identify an exact player and guarantee that player will be a better fit. That player might be on another team doing “better”, but that don’t mean it happens as a knick.
Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:LivingLegend wrote:Some valid points Nalod.Not too long ago E. Peyton started for our 4th seed squad but most of fan base knew we needed to fix that spot.
I hope I’m wrong on RJ - he’s a solid kid in my view. I sure as hell wasn’t right being on the Frank bandwagon.
We made the 4th seed that year because RJ and Randle were both lights out excellent during the entire regular season. Elf had as much to do with it as Dickie Simpkins did with the bulls winning their second threepeat
Dickie started 17 games in the Three peat era on one of the greatest teams in history Stacked with a Goat and 3 other HOF players.
Elf started 63 games in the 4 seed season. Nobody said he was the straw that stirred the drink. But he was in the glass.This year RJ plays second most minutes and avg over 19 per game in his 4th season on a team that wildly succeeded beyond expectations as the third option. Weakest link? Not sure I’d go there but not a knick fan on the planet is blind to his issues, but also his strengths. I have confidence he will not be the reason we don’t win a chip. Next year,, if there is one for him as a knick he needs to reduce his turnovers just a bit, and get that outside shot back in the high 30% range.
Its easy to say we need a better player at that position but another to actually identify an exact player and guarantee that player will be a better fit. That player might be on another team doing “better”, but that don’t mean it happens as a knick.
What team is elf on now? Just wondering
Philc1 wrote:Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:LivingLegend wrote:Some valid points Nalod.Not too long ago E. Peyton started for our 4th seed squad but most of fan base knew we needed to fix that spot.
I hope I’m wrong on RJ - he’s a solid kid in my view. I sure as hell wasn’t right being on the Frank bandwagon.
We made the 4th seed that year because RJ and Randle were both lights out excellent during the entire regular season. Elf had as much to do with it as Dickie Simpkins did with the bulls winning their second threepeat
Dickie started 17 games in the Three peat era on one of the greatest teams in history Stacked with a Goat and 3 other HOF players.
Elf started 63 games in the 4 seed season. Nobody said he was the straw that stirred the drink. But he was in the glass.This year RJ plays second most minutes and avg over 19 per game in his 4th season on a team that wildly succeeded beyond expectations as the third option. Weakest link? Not sure I’d go there but not a knick fan on the planet is blind to his issues, but also his strengths. I have confidence he will not be the reason we don’t win a chip. Next year,, if there is one for him as a knick he needs to reduce his turnovers just a bit, and get that outside shot back in the high 30% range.
Its easy to say we need a better player at that position but another to actually identify an exact player and guarantee that player will be a better fit. That player might be on another team doing “better”, but that don’t mean it happens as a knick.What team is elf on now? Just wondering
Is on the same team as Zach Wilson. The one that occupies your mind and appears to be winning.
SergioNYK wrote:We're going to need a big time performance by RJ to beat the Cavs. His Knicks career is sort of on the line. More so than shooting well (shooting always goes a little down in the playoffs) he needs to bring it defensively and make plays.
Yes. If they get Okoro and Jared Allen back thats a different team than we saw last week.
With is contract Im not sure his knick career is at stake but if an opportunity arises then perhaps knicks use him as part of it.
Knicks have the trifecta of assets to trade for a star:
1. An allstar (randle)
2. An upcoming rising player (IQ)
3. Pick(s)
Add EF for salary fodder. Now, if. You move Randle does that make life better for RJ? Depends on who comes in? Say its Luca? Maybe. Is luka better at reading the double and moving the ball from it? Is RJ gonna get closer to 40%?
Were is Grimes in this scenario?
No predictions here. I know we have discussed Embiid here but things are going swimmingly well there for the moment.
He is an MVP candidate and team is doing just fine. Playoff Melt down? Always possible.
Philc1 wrote:Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:LivingLegend wrote:Some valid points Nalod.Not too long ago E. Peyton started for our 4th seed squad but most of fan base knew we needed to fix that spot.
I hope I’m wrong on RJ - he’s a solid kid in my view. I sure as hell wasn’t right being on the Frank bandwagon.
We made the 4th seed that year because RJ and Randle were both lights out excellent during the entire regular season. Elf had as much to do with it as Dickie Simpkins did with the bulls winning their second threepeat
Dickie started 17 games in the Three peat era on one of the greatest teams in history Stacked with a Goat and 3 other HOF players.
Elf started 63 games in the 4 seed season. Nobody said he was the straw that stirred the drink. But he was in the glass.This year RJ plays second most minutes and avg over 19 per game in his 4th season on a team that wildly succeeded beyond expectations as the third option. Weakest link? Not sure I’d go there but not a knick fan on the planet is blind to his issues, but also his strengths. I have confidence he will not be the reason we don’t win a chip. Next year,, if there is one for him as a knick he needs to reduce his turnovers just a bit, and get that outside shot back in the high 30% range.
Its easy to say we need a better player at that position but another to actually identify an exact player and guarantee that player will be a better fit. That player might be on another team doing “better”, but that don’t mean it happens as a knick.What team is elf on now? Just wondering
It took a minute to look up, but he's with the Fort Wayne Mad Ants after a brief stint in Puerto Rico. I'll be the first to admit that Elf is trash (in comparison to other NBAers). But it wasn't his fault that he started. He gave his all and even though it wasn't close to being good enough, I appreciate the effort. I hope Elf finds a role as 15th man somewhere.
Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:LivingLegend wrote:Some valid points Nalod.Not too long ago E. Peyton started for our 4th seed squad but most of fan base knew we needed to fix that spot.
I hope I’m wrong on RJ - he’s a solid kid in my view. I sure as hell wasn’t right being on the Frank bandwagon.
We made the 4th seed that year because RJ and Randle were both lights out excellent during the entire regular season. Elf had as much to do with it as Dickie Simpkins did with the bulls winning their second threepeat
Dickie started 17 games in the Three peat era on one of the greatest teams in history Stacked with a Goat and 3 other HOF players.
Elf started 63 games in the 4 seed season. Nobody said he was the straw that stirred the drink. But he was in the glass.This year RJ plays second most minutes and avg over 19 per game in his 4th season on a team that wildly succeeded beyond expectations as the third option. Weakest link? Not sure I’d go there but not a knick fan on the planet is blind to his issues, but also his strengths. I have confidence he will not be the reason we don’t win a chip. Next year,, if there is one for him as a knick he needs to reduce his turnovers just a bit, and get that outside shot back in the high 30% range.
Its easy to say we need a better player at that position but another to actually identify an exact player and guarantee that player will be a better fit. That player might be on another team doing “better”, but that don’t mean it happens as a knick.What team is elf on now? Just wondering
Is on the same team as Zach Wilson. The one that occupies your mind and appears to be winning.
What’s a Zach Wilson?