fishmike wrote:blkexec wrote:I like Obi and think he’s a good player with a good demeanor and likable personality. He definitely deserves more. More time and more money. He came in as a rim running dunker. Now he added a 3pt corner badge to his repertoire. He definitely improved but so did Randle who’s our 2x all star PF. If Obi had the agility of Roby, he would be more valuable for us. But since the only position thibs plays Obi is PF, we should move him for a player that understands their role and impacts the game with minimal mins at a cheaper price tag.
the bold has clearly blinded you to how simply below average Obi has been. I like him too. He hasnt been good here. He didnt "add" a 3 point shot. He was regarded as a top pick because he dunked everything in college AND shot the 3 (and took a bunch) at over 41%He has not gotten better here in 3 years, that is the bottom line. I keep reading stuff like "Obi deserves" and I just dont get why. Cause we like him? He's great with fans?
That's the hard part about building with youth... some of these kids aint gonna make it.
I hear what you are saying, but of course I disagree with part of your argument. I hold locker room chemistry and team synergy higher than you, which is why we might disagree. I rather have a less talented bench player who wants to improve and is well liked, than a over confident skilled bench player who's an ass hole and doesn't care about his teammates. This is how Tom Brady became Tom Brady. Off the field, Bledsoe was not well liked, eventhough his skill set may have been at a starters level. (I knew a person who worked on the New England staff during that time - inside info) Obi appears to be a great teammate and thats just as important as the other skills. So we just going to agree to disagree on that point.
I disagree that Obi hasn't improved. At one point during the season, he was the best 3 point shooter on the team.
Now where we agree is Obi hasn't reached expectations as a top 10 PF pick, which seems to be a pattern with knick players picked in the top 10 lately. My argument is this falls on the FO who drafted BPA, eventhough we already had Randle who was in his prime (and still is). My guess is the FO did not think Randle would turn around and have an All Star year and become a stable force in this rotation. If they knew this, Obi would not have been drafted, and we are not having this conversation.
But everything I just said justifies this thread topic, which says Obi's agent will want more, and thats a true statement period. Are you agreeing or disagreeing, I'm really not sure at this point, but I agree.
So the good news is Thibs has helped to increase Obi's value recently and now I believe he would be a great trade option with something decent in return. Hopefully it's a learning lesson with the FO that drafted him and drafting BPA may not always be the best approach.
His agent will want more. But does Obis Stats merit more. That's why I think we can extend him at a decent price.
Alpha1971 wrote:His agent will want more. But does Obis Stats merit more. That's why I think we can extend him at a decent price.
I agree with this. The question is does Obi want to be a starter, because that path doesn’t exist on this team with Randle here.
TPercy wrote:I think 12-14m per year is good enough for him. If he dosen't take it then oh well gg go next. He's the ideal backup for JR and fits well here in NY.
Im not really talking money first. Im talking starters minutes. If I was the agent I know the path to a major contract for Obi goes minutes and teams mix first. Back up minutes/position isnt going to get the pay they want. Hes the guy who could be traded in the draft.
to borrow a phrase from the 3 stooges: Obi is a victim of circumstance. He needs minutes and would benefit with a team that wants to run.
I do like his demeanor but i can't see us extracting maximum value from him on the Knicks; he's worth more in a trade
Seems like OKC might be a good candidate
BRIGGS wrote:TPercy wrote:I think 12-14m per year is good enough for him. If he dosen't take it then oh well gg go next. He's the ideal backup for JR and fits well here in NY.
Im not really talking money first. Im talking starters minutes. If I was the agent I know the path to a major contract for Obi goes minutes and teams mix first. Back up minutes/position isnt going to get the pay they want. Hes the guy who could be traded in the draft.
Who is he going to play for that will give him starter minutes? What skills does he provide outside of being a rim runner that warrants starter minutes? Obi has got a good thing here. Low pressure back up to one of the best PFs in the league, playing with his best friend in his home state. Offer the 12m descending deal and keep an eye on future drafts to upgrade that position if needed.
blkexec wrote:fishmike wrote:blkexec wrote:I like Obi and think he’s a good player with a good demeanor and likable personality. He definitely deserves more. More time and more money. He came in as a rim running dunker. Now he added a 3pt corner badge to his repertoire. He definitely improved but so did Randle who’s our 2x all star PF. If Obi had the agility of Roby, he would be more valuable for us. But since the only position thibs plays Obi is PF, we should move him for a player that understands their role and impacts the game with minimal mins at a cheaper price tag.
the bold has clearly blinded you to how simply below average Obi has been. I like him too. He hasnt been good here. He didnt "add" a 3 point shot. He was regarded as a top pick because he dunked everything in college AND shot the 3 (and took a bunch) at over 41%He has not gotten better here in 3 years, that is the bottom line. I keep reading stuff like "Obi deserves" and I just dont get why. Cause we like him? He's great with fans?
That's the hard part about building with youth... some of these kids aint gonna make it.
I hear what you are saying, but of course I disagree with part of your argument. I hold locker room chemistry and team synergy higher than you, which is why we might disagree. I rather have a less talented bench player who wants to improve and is well liked, than a over confident skilled bench player who's an ass hole and doesn't care about his teammates. This is how Tom Brady became Tom Brady. Off the field, Bledsoe was not well liked, eventhough his skill set may have been at a starters level. (I knew a person who worked on the New England staff during that time - inside info) Obi appears to be a great teammate and thats just as important as the other skills. So we just going to agree to disagree on that point.
I disagree that Obi hasn't improved. At one point during the season, he was the best 3 point shooter on the team.
Now where we agree is Obi hasn't reached expectations as a top 10 PF pick, which seems to be a pattern with knick players picked in the top 10 lately. My argument is this falls on the FO who drafted BPA, eventhough we already had Randle who was in his prime (and still is). My guess is the FO did not think Randle would turn around and have an All Star year and become a stable force in this rotation. If they knew this, Obi would not have been drafted, and we are not having this conversation.
But everything I just said justifies this thread topic, which says Obi's agent will want more, and thats a true statement period. Are you agreeing or disagreeing, I'm really not sure at this point, but I agree.
So the good news is Thibs has helped to increase Obi's value recently and now I believe he would be a great trade option with something decent in return. Hopefully it's a learning lesson with the FO that drafted him and drafting BPA may not always be the best approach.
wtf is this?
"I hold locker room chemistry and team synergy higher than you"
You literally just invented a fact and made an argument based on it. I played organized sports for 20 years, don't pretend to impose your beliefs as mine.
We are talking about Obi "deserving" MORE.
MORE being the key word. You think he's deserving of MORE because he's a good guy and everyone likes playing with him? What are you actually talking about?
What "argument" that I wrote (like actually wrote) are you disagreeing with?
fishmike wrote:blkexec wrote:fishmike wrote:blkexec wrote:I like Obi and think he’s a good player with a good demeanor and likable personality. He definitely deserves more. More time and more money. He came in as a rim running dunker. Now he added a 3pt corner badge to his repertoire. He definitely improved but so did Randle who’s our 2x all star PF. If Obi had the agility of Roby, he would be more valuable for us. But since the only position thibs plays Obi is PF, we should move him for a player that understands their role and impacts the game with minimal mins at a cheaper price tag.
the bold has clearly blinded you to how simply below average Obi has been. I like him too. He hasnt been good here. He didnt "add" a 3 point shot. He was regarded as a top pick because he dunked everything in college AND shot the 3 (and took a bunch) at over 41%He has not gotten better here in 3 years, that is the bottom line. I keep reading stuff like "Obi deserves" and I just dont get why. Cause we like him? He's great with fans?
That's the hard part about building with youth... some of these kids aint gonna make it.
I hear what you are saying, but of course I disagree with part of your argument. I hold locker room chemistry and team synergy higher than you, which is why we might disagree. I rather have a less talented bench player who wants to improve and is well liked, than a over confident skilled bench player who's an ass hole and doesn't care about his teammates. This is how Tom Brady became Tom Brady. Off the field, Bledsoe was not well liked, eventhough his skill set may have been at a starters level. (I knew a person who worked on the New England staff during that time - inside info) Obi appears to be a great teammate and thats just as important as the other skills. So we just going to agree to disagree on that point.
I disagree that Obi hasn't improved. At one point during the season, he was the best 3 point shooter on the team.
Now where we agree is Obi hasn't reached expectations as a top 10 PF pick, which seems to be a pattern with knick players picked in the top 10 lately. My argument is this falls on the FO who drafted BPA, eventhough we already had Randle who was in his prime (and still is). My guess is the FO did not think Randle would turn around and have an All Star year and become a stable force in this rotation. If they knew this, Obi would not have been drafted, and we are not having this conversation.
But everything I just said justifies this thread topic, which says Obi's agent will want more, and thats a true statement period. Are you agreeing or disagreeing, I'm really not sure at this point, but I agree.
So the good news is Thibs has helped to increase Obi's value recently and now I believe he would be a great trade option with something decent in return. Hopefully it's a learning lesson with the FO that drafted him and drafting BPA may not always be the best approach.
wtf is this?
"I hold locker room chemistry and team synergy higher than you"You literally just invented a fact and made an argument based on it. I played organized sports for 20 years, don't pretend to impose your beliefs as mine.
We are talking about Obi "deserving" MORE.
MORE being the key word. You think he's deserving of MORE because he's a good guy and everyone likes playing with him? What are you actually talking about?
What "argument" that I wrote (like actually wrote) are you disagreeing with?
Nothing at all sir. Just a simple mis-understanding of your reply to my post. Nothing more nothing less.
Yes he deserves more minutes, just not on this team. There's no more minutes to give out.
But you should read your reply. All I did was respond to that. You highlighted that I said he's a good guy and assumed thats why he deserves more minutes. So your assumption was incorrect and I replied to you based on a false accusation by you. But hey, this happens in chats all the time. And I can see why you thought that.
All I was saying is yes he deserves more time. Not because of his personality (lmao). This is where the convo went south.
He deserves more because he went from not contributing anything to being an impact player on the floor. He's a top 10 pick, his jumper is more consistent. He never complained. He's not a locker room cancer. Unfortunately, there's no room for minutes on this team.
Again, chats can be misleading. If you responded in a face to face conversation, I would've saw where you mis-understood me and nipped it in the but. But it's all good. Happy Easter.
Heres a simple reply Fish.
"the bold has clearly blinded you to how simply below average Obi has been"
This is a false statement and I have no idea where you got this from. This is how I should've replied initially, instead of assuming like you assumed. We both assumed wrong. lmao
His "good demeanor and likable personality" did not blind me. I can say the same about Frank, who was a great team player and lockerroom guy. That doesn't mean Frank deserves more minutes.
I believe Obi put in the work. I did not watch him in college, outside of highlight dunks. But I did see him shoot 3 or 4 airballs from deep. Now he's a more reliable shooter than before. Thats it.
Don't want no beef sir. It's too nice outside for arguments over a players personality. Especially a player who only gets 10 mins a game.
blkexec wrote:Heres a simple reply Fish."the bold has clearly blinded you to how simply below average Obi has been"
This is a false statement and I have no idea where you got this from. This is how I should've replied initially, instead of assuming like you assumed. We both assumed wrong. lmao
His "good demeanor and likable personality" did not blind me. I can say the same about Frank, who was a great team player and lockerroom guy. That doesn't mean Frank deserves more minutes.
I believe Obi put in the work. I did not watch him in college, outside of highlight dunks. But I did see him shoot 3 or 4 airballs from deep. Now he's a more reliable shooter than before. Thats it.
Don't want no beef sir. It's too nice outside for arguments over a players personality. Especially a player who only gets 10 mins a game.
is it false tho? It seems your argument for Obi getting and deserving more minutes are based on him being a good guy, and not anything he's accomplished as an NBA player. Everyone loves Obi. We play 9 guys. 7 are consistently really good. 2 are consistently meh. Guess which group Obi is in? Saying one of the two guys on your roster who is playing the poorest deserves or should get more minutes is puzzling, unless of course you are rebuilding and care more about development than wins. RJ has had 4 years of that. Obi has had 3 years of that. Its time for wins. That doesnt = more minutes.
And if you dont want beefs you need to stop with this lunacy. Just kidding... I just went for a ride and lordy what a lovely day 
Enjoy. Cant wait till Saturday
Obi is a good young player that isn't getting enough minutes here. That isn't going to suppress his value. Someone will see what he has done when given a chance and pay him. That people can't recognize blows my mind--especially when this is exactly how we got Brunson
fishmike wrote:blkexec wrote:Heres a simple reply Fish."the bold has clearly blinded you to how simply below average Obi has been"
This is a false statement and I have no idea where you got this from. This is how I should've replied initially, instead of assuming like you assumed. We both assumed wrong. lmao
His "good demeanor and likable personality" did not blind me. I can say the same about Frank, who was a great team player and lockerroom guy. That doesn't mean Frank deserves more minutes.
I believe Obi put in the work. I did not watch him in college, outside of highlight dunks. But I did see him shoot 3 or 4 airballs from deep. Now he's a more reliable shooter than before. Thats it.
Don't want no beef sir. It's too nice outside for arguments over a players personality. Especially a player who only gets 10 mins a game.
is it false tho? It seems your argument for Obi getting and deserving more minutes are based on him being a good guy, and not anything he's accomplished as an NBA player. Everyone loves Obi. We play 9 guys. 7 are consistently really good. 2 are consistently meh. Guess which group Obi is in? Saying one of the two guys on your roster who is playing the poorest deserves or should get more minutes is puzzling, unless of course you are rebuilding and care more about development than wins. RJ has had 4 years of that. Obi has had 3 years of that. Its time for wins. That doesnt = more minutes.And if you dont want beefs you need to stop with this lunacy. Just kidding... I just went for a ride and lordy what a lovely day Enjoy. Cant wait till Saturday
OK.....Your response is very clear about one thing. You're not listening or reading my replies for some reason.
You seem to take it personal when I assume. But then you do the same thing? Mind Exploding. Come on man, if we going to talk, lets talk. If you going to make accusations about me, then get upset when I do the same, thats childish and don't have time for that. So I'll just stop at the bold since it's not true, before I go any further. I will make it real clear for you. The bold is not true. Until we get passed that, theres no point to go any further.
It seems your argument for Obi getting and deserving more minutes are based on him being a good guy
False again Fish, just like it was false when you first replied and made an incorrect accusation. You can't make this stuff up.
BTW.....Throw that bike away and get you an ewheel (EUC all day). Wait I said bike and you said ride. Was that another false accusation by me. 
fishmike wrote:blkexec wrote:Heres a simple reply Fish."the bold has clearly blinded you to how simply below average Obi has been"
This is a false statement and I have no idea where you got this from. This is how I should've replied initially, instead of assuming like you assumed. We both assumed wrong. lmao
His "good demeanor and likable personality" did not blind me. I can say the same about Frank, who was a great team player and lockerroom guy. That doesn't mean Frank deserves more minutes.
I believe Obi put in the work. I did not watch him in college, outside of highlight dunks. But I did see him shoot 3 or 4 airballs from deep. Now he's a more reliable shooter than before. Thats it.
Don't want no beef sir. It's too nice outside for arguments over a players personality. Especially a player who only gets 10 mins a game.
is it false tho? It seems your argument for Obi getting and deserving more minutes are based on him being a good guy, and not anything he's accomplished as an NBA player. Everyone loves Obi. We play 9 guys. 7 are consistently really good. 2 are consistently meh. Guess which group Obi is in? Saying one of the two guys on your roster who is playing the poorest deserves or should get more minutes is puzzling, unless of course you are rebuilding and care more about development than wins. RJ has had 4 years of that. Obi has had 3 years of that. Its time for wins. That doesnt = more minutes.And if you dont want beefs you need to stop with this lunacy. Just kidding... I just went for a ride and lordy what a lovely day Enjoy. Cant wait till Saturday
You can like, love or dislike Obi but it's somewhat unfair to criticize his production in limited minutes as he has produced when given larger minutes. Not every player has a high PER and is as consistent/productive in starting vs bench roles. Guy like Lou Williams was the ultimate 6th man but his numbers/production wasn't as great when he played starter minutes. Some players excel is specific roles and struggle in others. One argument would be when he has played more he has played/produced better.
So yes Obi has been inconsistent, but he also has shown greater production overall when he's played more minutes. He rebounds poorly and is defensively inconsistent. He plays at a faster pace and brings a high level of energy that this team desperately needs. He did improve his 3 point shooting to a respectable level. I don't think Thibs uses him to his strengths and with Randle playing so well - there really won't be an opportunity to give him more minutes (although I'd give him some at the 3 since RJ is struggling so much). So overall I do believe his play and impact has warranted him more playing time - despite the fact that it won't happen with Thibs and Randle running the show.
The playoffs are going to play a large part in determining Obi's asking price I imagine.
Toppin plays the way he has been in extended minutes in the playoffs. The FO will have to pay Obi more $$$$ than they would for his regular season role.
GustavBahler wrote:The playoffs are going to play a large part in determining Obi's asking price I imagine. Toppin plays the way he has been in extended minutes in the playoffs. The FO will have to pay Obi more $$$$ than they would for his regular season role.
The problem is the game isn’t played the same way in the playoffs. Everything tightens up and the late season freedom he gets just isn’t there. Hopefully he can make an impact though. He can change a lot of opinion about him in the next 2 weeks.
I think the Knicks value team chemistry and organic improvement. I think the team values it's depth and expect to improve next year with continued improvement from the players on the roster. For that reason I think Obi returns next year and they offer Obi an extension at a price bench players get but not a bargain rate to keep him. Unless he is used in a bigger deal. I think his role can be expanded to play more at the 3 with his improved 3 pt shot. Team may not have a first rounder so that may require Obi stay without getting a infusion of young talent.
SupremeCommander wrote:Obi is a good young player that isn't getting enough minutes here. That isn't going to suppress his value. Someone will see what he has done when given a chance and pay him. That people can't recognize blows my mind--especially when this is exactly how we got Brunson
Yep. You can see it. And im sure other GMs see it. More mins = more production.
I’m happy to keep him or trade him. Eitherway it’s a good decision because his value is high and with mins his production is high.
Now I hope Randle is back so that Obi doesn’t feel so much pressured to perform in the playoffs. But if he focus on who he is and not try to be something he’s not, he will be fine. If he was just a rim runner, his value would be minimized. But now that he’s a confident 3 pt shooter, defenses can’t leave him unguarded anymore. That opens up lanes for Brunson and RJ.
I believe Leon Rose values team chemistry which is why he did not pull the trigger on melo (just my guess) or other players he could’ve had. And so far it’s working. I would love for Obi to stay but that’s up to him and his agent.
SupremeCommander wrote:Obi is a good young player that isn't getting enough minutes here. That isn't going to suppress his value. Someone will see what he has done when given a chance and pay him. That people can't recognize blows my mind--especially when this is exactly how we got Brunson
What skill does Obi offer that warrants starter minutes. He's an average at best defender and shooter and dosen't have a bag. He's just a good transition threat to have on the team who can pass well.
TPercy wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Obi is a good young player that isn't getting enough minutes here. That isn't going to suppress his value. Someone will see what he has done when given a chance and pay him. That people can't recognize blows my mind--especially when this is exactly how we got Brunson
What skill does Obi offer that warrants starter minutes. He's an average at best defender and shooter and dosen't have a bag. He's just a good transition threat to have on the team who can pass well.
Has been showing a halfcourt game as a starter. Didnt get all those buckets in transition. Does this whenever he gets some extended PT, and isnt consigned to the corner. Obi's performance as a starter is looking less and less like a fluke.
I think it’s pretty clear The only reason obi isn’t averaging over 20pts 6 boards and 3 assists on 30 min a game . Is because of Randal.
Obi could easily start on a lot of teams in the NBA so yeah without a doubt obi is gonna want to be paid and rightfully so.
When Randal is healthy thibs screws Obi on minutes what player that’s used to starting his whole life can turn things on in 6 min or less in each half? Answer Not many… so I don’t think the 12 min a game obi is the same player as the obi that gets 30+ min a game .
SupremeCommander wrote:Obi is a good young player that isn't getting enough minutes here. That isn't going to suppress his value. Someone will see what he has done when given a chance and pay him. That people can't recognize blows my mind--especially when this is exactly how we got Brunson
My question is why isn't he getting the minutes?
Grimes does. IQ does. MR did.
For me, it's more of a faith of our coaching staff and a more realistic view of what goes on in practices. That and that fans don't seem to want to admit that he just is not as good as touted. Obi, at this point, is a one dimensional player. Coaches see the whole picture and know how a players affects winning. They look at intangibles and all around game. Fans are more concerned about their hope and focus on highlights that reinforce that hope.
Disagree that Obi is anything close to a JB example. JB led his team when Star was down and facilitated an entire offense. He also proved to be a big game player in the playoffs. He was a great example of efficiency and contributor to winning. I like Obi, but he has yet to do that.
I do agree that he would have a better chance of proving he is more but elsewhere. I have been
Wrong before but like Frank, his limitations are obvious and are ones I don't see him improving.
He was my pick in the draft but now has the game to be a solid role player. He is worth as much as any other draft disappointment that teams feel they can resurrect. A lot of those floating around.
We have had our share in recent years.
