Sorry I just can't stop torturing myself today after last nights troubling loss. Do the Knicks re-tool a roster geared towards winning playoff games or continue the youth movement next season? Brunson and Hart have shown they are the most consistent, experienced and talented players on the court for the Knicks and no one else is even close. Randle is still an unpredictable head case and everyone else is very young for a play off run. I guess they'll grow out of it, but last night was brutal
Knicks are 1-1 on the road. Of a playoff series. For which most of the guys have never played in. And those guys are like all under 24.
You def doing the self torture thing 
martin wrote:Knicks are 1-1 on the road. Of a playoff series. For which most of the guys have never played in. And those guys are like all under 24.You def doing the self torture thing
Agreed. It’s mostly overreacting when it’s broken down like that. But that being said I think most of us are in agreement that if Barrett is replaced in this rotation with a player who really fits, then this team is better. Not talking about a better player. Barrett is still good with a ton of untapped potential in the right circumstances…maybe. But for this Knicks team, we need someone who can provide value for this particular group. Burks is a proven example. Yes we could use him. Basically we need more guy like Josh hart. Because I love to torture myself too (instead of just enjoying the moment of the playoffs) I am always trying to figure out how this team can get better. Who can make them better. Unless Barrett grows up during the playoffs suddenly, I’m good moving him to a team with cap space this summer for a future pick or two. Then making a move for a player who is better in those minutes for this particular team. Doesn’t have to be a starter, as hart is proven he can slot in at SF and will get his 30+ mpg. But off the bench I can see Burks again via trade. Or a name I love this summer is Bruce brown for the mid level. He’s literally another Josh hart. CAA guy too. Just think aloud.
Knixkik wrote:martin wrote:Knicks are 1-1 on the road. Of a playoff series. For which most of the guys have never played in. And those guys are like all under 24.You def doing the self torture thing
Agreed. It’s mostly overreacting when it’s broken down like that. But that being said I think most of us are in agreement that if Barrett is replaced in this rotation with a player who really fits, then this team is better. Not talking about a better player. Barrett is still good with a ton of untapped potential in the right circumstances…maybe. But for this Knicks team, we need someone who can provide value for this particular group. Burks is a proven example. Yes we could use him. Basically we need more guy like Josh hart. Because I love to torture myself too (instead of just enjoying the moment of the playoffs) I am always trying to figure out how this team can get better. Who can make them better. Unless Barrett grows up during the playoffs suddenly, I’m good moving him to a team with cap space this summer for a future pick or two. Then making a move for a player who is better in those minutes for this particular team. Doesn’t have to be a starter, as hart is proven he can slot in at SF and will get his 30+ mpg. But off the bench I can see Burks again via trade. Or a name I love this summer is Bruce brown for the mid level. He’s literally another Josh hart. CAA guy too. Just think aloud.
The Knicks played like crap last night. I could barely watch cause it hurt the eyes so much.
Knicks have one of the youngest teams in the league and their 2 best players unfortunately missed time at end of year.
They do have to play better and they will. Thibs ain't gonna let last night sit.
If you fill the team with "Josh Harts" then you can't create.
We got to the 5th seed without Alec Burks and other old guys.
What your perhaps missing is the experience of playoffs, winning and losing galvanizes better players going forward. Some crumble under pressure, some thrive, but often its the lessons that prepare them going forward.
So planning a roster for the playoffs is one thing. Still have to get there. Then there is performing.
Thus far our yoot is not stepping up after two games. Randle is not in proper game shape and Brunson got defended better by the no. 1 defense in the league. Cleveland is damn good. Lavert killed us.
This was not about just one player or two, the knick team looked bad last night.
We are not close to being a team stuck that needs a new coach after not advancing.
Quick did not come to the rescue has he has so many games. Grimes was covered up and had his hands full on defense. Its not about him being more aggressive what ever we see. Its about the experience and the building up that toughness that can forge thru. They are young core.
RJ? easy to type "Lets replace him" to a team rebuilding. Perhaps that works if another team has the patience and sees his potential.
If they do, does our FO and coaches? No fan wants what we are seeing/experiencing.
its easy to be discouraged this morning as a fan.
martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:martin wrote:Knicks are 1-1 on the road. Of a playoff series. For which most of the guys have never played in. And those guys are like all under 24.You def doing the self torture thing
Agreed. It’s mostly overreacting when it’s broken down like that. But that being said I think most of us are in agreement that if Barrett is replaced in this rotation with a player who really fits, then this team is better. Not talking about a better player. Barrett is still good with a ton of untapped potential in the right circumstances…maybe. But for this Knicks team, we need someone who can provide value for this particular group. Burks is a proven example. Yes we could use him. Basically we need more guy like Josh hart. Because I love to torture myself too (instead of just enjoying the moment of the playoffs) I am always trying to figure out how this team can get better. Who can make them better. Unless Barrett grows up during the playoffs suddenly, I’m good moving him to a team with cap space this summer for a future pick or two. Then making a move for a player who is better in those minutes for this particular team. Doesn’t have to be a starter, as hart is proven he can slot in at SF and will get his 30+ mpg. But off the bench I can see Burks again via trade. Or a name I love this summer is Bruce brown for the mid level. He’s literally another Josh hart. CAA guy too. Just think aloud.
The Knicks played like crap last night. I could barely watch cause it hurt the eyes so much.
Knicks have one of the youngest teams in the league and their 2 best players unfortunately missed time at end of year.
They do have to play better and they will. Thibs ain't gonna let last night sit.
Agreed. And they have time to rest and recalibrate. It’s easy to forget how young this team is.
Knixkik wrote:martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:martin wrote:Knicks are 1-1 on the road. Of a playoff series. For which most of the guys have never played in. And those guys are like all under 24.You def doing the self torture thing
Agreed. It’s mostly overreacting when it’s broken down like that. But that being said I think most of us are in agreement that if Barrett is replaced in this rotation with a player who really fits, then this team is better. Not talking about a better player. Barrett is still good with a ton of untapped potential in the right circumstances…maybe. But for this Knicks team, we need someone who can provide value for this particular group. Burks is a proven example. Yes we could use him. Basically we need more guy like Josh hart. Because I love to torture myself too (instead of just enjoying the moment of the playoffs) I am always trying to figure out how this team can get better. Who can make them better. Unless Barrett grows up during the playoffs suddenly, I’m good moving him to a team with cap space this summer for a future pick or two. Then making a move for a player who is better in those minutes for this particular team. Doesn’t have to be a starter, as hart is proven he can slot in at SF and will get his 30+ mpg. But off the bench I can see Burks again via trade. Or a name I love this summer is Bruce brown for the mid level. He’s literally another Josh hart. CAA guy too. Just think aloud.
The Knicks played like crap last night. I could barely watch cause it hurt the eyes so much.
Knicks have one of the youngest teams in the league and their 2 best players unfortunately missed time at end of year.
They do have to play better and they will. Thibs ain't gonna let last night sit.
Agreed. And they have time to rest and recalibrate. It’s easy to forget how young this team is.
Part of the growth process. The cavs are young too though
Caseloads wrote:Knixkik wrote:martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:martin wrote:Knicks are 1-1 on the road. Of a playoff series. For which most of the guys have never played in. And those guys are like all under 24.You def doing the self torture thing
Agreed. It’s mostly overreacting when it’s broken down like that. But that being said I think most of us are in agreement that if Barrett is replaced in this rotation with a player who really fits, then this team is better. Not talking about a better player. Barrett is still good with a ton of untapped potential in the right circumstances…maybe. But for this Knicks team, we need someone who can provide value for this particular group. Burks is a proven example. Yes we could use him. Basically we need more guy like Josh hart. Because I love to torture myself too (instead of just enjoying the moment of the playoffs) I am always trying to figure out how this team can get better. Who can make them better. Unless Barrett grows up during the playoffs suddenly, I’m good moving him to a team with cap space this summer for a future pick or two. Then making a move for a player who is better in those minutes for this particular team. Doesn’t have to be a starter, as hart is proven he can slot in at SF and will get his 30+ mpg. But off the bench I can see Burks again via trade. Or a name I love this summer is Bruce brown for the mid level. He’s literally another Josh hart. CAA guy too. Just think aloud.
The Knicks played like crap last night. I could barely watch cause it hurt the eyes so much.
Knicks have one of the youngest teams in the league and their 2 best players unfortunately missed time at end of year.
They do have to play better and they will. Thibs ain't gonna let last night sit.
Agreed. And they have time to rest and recalibrate. It’s easy to forget how young this team is.
Part of the growth process. The cavs are young too though
Both teams are evenly matched. Whoever has it going first usually has the edge.
I’m a similar person as well who’s always looking for a solution to a problem. But sometimes it’s just about executing. RJ might look terrible, but we need his down hill play to break down the defense. We need IQ to be that force off the bench. Need grimes to be aggressive, Mitch with better hands, etc.
Alec Burks is an interesting suggestion. He’s solid if used in the right way. What’s wrong with putting deuce on garland? I wish that was possible but doesn’t seem like it with the rotation thibs is using. And when deuce comes in the game (if he comes in) garland is probably on the bench.
Looks like our offensive efficiency is the best way to beat them. I don’t trust our defense. Randle doesn’t look engaged on defense, harts on 1 leg, JB struggling to contain his man, RJ has ankle weights on. So our offense has to save this series. Which means less TOs and seeing the doubles before they come. Be proactive and not reactive. Listen to garlands words after game one and use that strategy. Be over aggressive on defense until they blow the whistle. See how much the refs will let them play, that’s important to know early on.
This is looking like a tennis match. Now it’s our serve.
If RJ has another invisible first qtr Im tempted to give McBride his 2nd qtr minutes. McBride gives you two things RJ doesn that we need: he's plus defender and can handle Garland/DM/Levert and he's an extra ball handler
fishmike wrote:If RJ has another invisible first qtr Im tempted to give McBride his 2nd qtr minutes. McBride gives you two things RJ doesn that we need: he's plus defender and can handle Garland/DM/Levert and he's an extra ball handler
agreed - this is a key game adjustment that Thibs needs to make
Caseloads wrote:fishmike wrote:If RJ has another invisible first qtr Im tempted to give McBride his 2nd qtr minutes. McBride gives you two things RJ doesn that we need: he's plus defender and can handle Garland/DM/Levert and he's an extra ball handler
agreed - this is a key game adjustment that Thibs needs to make
Id rather see if RJ can turn things around. You bench RJ for a little used sub during the playoffs. Good luck getting value in a trade, for a replacement.
If McBride was instant offense, had the ability to shift the momentum in a game, I'd say go for it. But it feels more like a lateral move that will hurt the Knicks in the offseason. I'm guessing an overall poor performance by RJ in the playoffs, will have the FO looking for better options.
fishmike wrote:If RJ has another invisible first qtr Im tempted to give McBride his 2nd qtr minutes. McBride gives you two things RJ doesn that we need: he's plus defender and can handle Garland/DM/Levert and he's an extra ball handler
I will never disagree will using a top 5 on ball nba defender, on a team that just got destroyed by their guards. But I’m curious how this would impact the teams half court offense and RJ confidence.
blkexec wrote:fishmike wrote:If RJ has another invisible first qtr Im tempted to give McBride his 2nd qtr minutes. McBride gives you two things RJ doesn that we need: he's plus defender and can handle Garland/DM/Levert and he's an extra ball handler
I will never disagree will using a top 5 on ball nba defender, on a team that just got destroyed by their guards. But I’m curious how this would impact the teams half court offense and RJ confidence.
It's been so long since I've seen him play and I can't remember... But was Fournier that bad on defense? I'm not that desperate but I'm getting there.
BigDaddyG wrote:blkexec wrote:fishmike wrote:If RJ has another invisible first qtr Im tempted to give McBride his 2nd qtr minutes. McBride gives you two things RJ doesn that we need: he's plus defender and can handle Garland/DM/Levert and he's an extra ball handler
I will never disagree will using a top 5 on ball nba defender, on a team that just got destroyed by their guards. But I’m curious how this would impact the teams half court offense and RJ confidence.
It's been so long since I've seen him play and I can't remember... But was Fournier that bad on defense? I'm not that desperate but I'm getting there.
I dont think Thibs can play Fournier. He just cant unless someone turns and ankle. McBride has been in the rotation and only lost his minutes to Josh. I think as the 10th man you can give him a little run and see how it goes. 5-8 minutes of good defense on Garland/DM/Levert could really help 2x a game. If RJ is playing well that can go for IQ or Obi as well
fishmike wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:blkexec wrote:fishmike wrote:If RJ has another invisible first qtr Im tempted to give McBride his 2nd qtr minutes. McBride gives you two things RJ doesn that we need: he's plus defender and can handle Garland/DM/Levert and he's an extra ball handler
I will never disagree will using a top 5 on ball nba defender, on a team that just got destroyed by their guards. But I’m curious how this would impact the teams half court offense and RJ confidence.
It's been so long since I've seen him play and I can't remember... But was Fournier that bad on defense? I'm not that desperate but I'm getting there.
I dont think Thibs can play Fournier. He just cant unless someone turns and ankle. McBride has been in the rotation and only lost his minutes to Josh. I think as the 10th man you can give him a little run and see how it goes. 5-8 minutes of good defense on Garland/DM/Levert could really help 2x a game. If RJ is playing well that can go for IQ or Obi as well
Obi got 15mins and scored 7 pts
Deuce got 3mins and scored 0 pts
I think they should be switched. If Deuce got 15 mins, his impact would be greater than Obi's 15 mins because Garland is the head of the snake. He makes everything click. Slow down Garland and we have a chance. Obi's defense was not impactful. So if Thibs adjust, this might be one of the adjustments.
RJ got 33 mins. I can see Thibs trimming those mins down a little. We need ball pressure on the perimeter and RJ is not a perimeter defender like Deuce. It's a no brainer to us. And usually when thats the case, Thibs adjust the very next game, based on the regular season Thibs. Playoff Thibs might be different. We shall see.
blkexec wrote:fishmike wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:blkexec wrote:fishmike wrote:If RJ has another invisible first qtr Im tempted to give McBride his 2nd qtr minutes. McBride gives you two things RJ doesn that we need: he's plus defender and can handle Garland/DM/Levert and he's an extra ball handler
I will never disagree will using a top 5 on ball nba defender, on a team that just got destroyed by their guards. But I’m curious how this would impact the teams half court offense and RJ confidence.
It's been so long since I've seen him play and I can't remember... But was Fournier that bad on defense? I'm not that desperate but I'm getting there.
I dont think Thibs can play Fournier. He just cant unless someone turns and ankle. McBride has been in the rotation and only lost his minutes to Josh. I think as the 10th man you can give him a little run and see how it goes. 5-8 minutes of good defense on Garland/DM/Levert could really help 2x a game. If RJ is playing well that can go for IQ or Obi as well
Obi got 15mins and scored 7 pts
Deuce got 3mins and scored 0 pts
I think they should be switched. If Deuce got 15 mins, his impact would be greater than Obi's 15 mins because Garland is the head of the snake. He makes everything click. Slow down Garland and we have a chance. Obi's defense was not impactful. So if Thibs adjust, this might be one of the adjustments.
RJ got 33 mins. I can see Thibs trimming those mins down a little. We need ball pressure on the perimeter and RJ is not a perimeter defender like Deuce. It's a no brainer to us. And usually when thats the case, Thibs adjust the very next game, based on the regular season Thibs. Playoff Thibs might be different. We shall see.
What did the on ball coverage on Garland game one account for and how did Clev negate that in game 2?
JHarts ineffectiveness (bad ankle) did matter.
How did Mobley gain advantage from game one into the second game?
Okoro got pulled and Lavert attacked and got his groove. Lets assume Okoro is out again, how do we defend him?
Is it imperative to get Grimes going earlier based on his effectiveness?
Is RJ really that phuch
Nalod wrote:blkexec wrote:fishmike wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:blkexec wrote:fishmike wrote:If RJ has another invisible first qtr Im tempted to give McBride his 2nd qtr minutes. McBride gives you two things RJ doesn that we need: he's plus defender and can handle Garland/DM/Levert and he's an extra ball handler
I will never disagree will using a top 5 on ball nba defender, on a team that just got destroyed by their guards. But I’m curious how this would impact the teams half court offense and RJ confidence.
It's been so long since I've seen him play and I can't remember... But was Fournier that bad on defense? I'm not that desperate but I'm getting there.
I dont think Thibs can play Fournier. He just cant unless someone turns and ankle. McBride has been in the rotation and only lost his minutes to Josh. I think as the 10th man you can give him a little run and see how it goes. 5-8 minutes of good defense on Garland/DM/Levert could really help 2x a game. If RJ is playing well that can go for IQ or Obi as well
Obi got 15mins and scored 7 pts
Deuce got 3mins and scored 0 pts
I think they should be switched. If Deuce got 15 mins, his impact would be greater than Obi's 15 mins because Garland is the head of the snake. He makes everything click. Slow down Garland and we have a chance. Obi's defense was not impactful. So if Thibs adjust, this might be one of the adjustments.
RJ got 33 mins. I can see Thibs trimming those mins down a little. We need ball pressure on the perimeter and RJ is not a perimeter defender like Deuce. It's a no brainer to us. And usually when thats the case, Thibs adjust the very next game, based on the regular season Thibs. Playoff Thibs might be different. We shall see.
What did the on ball coverage on Garland game one account for and how did Clev negate that in game 2?
JHarts ineffectiveness (bad ankle) did matter.
How did Mobley gain advantage from game one into the second game?
Okoro got pulled and Lavert attacked and got his groove. Lets assume Okoro is out again, how do we defend him?
Is it imperative to get Grimes going earlier based on his effectiveness?
Is RJ really that phuch
I thought about that as well, regarding what we did against Garland game one. I think Garland realized all he had to do was be aggressive. I'm sure once he saw the film and RJ was on him, that was an easy adjustment. But the way Garland was all over every network, saying they need to be aggressive and need to punch first. That was a clear sign that Garland would turn up in game 2. Not sure why we didn't see that coming.
Not sure Mobley had much of an impact. He played better than game 1, but was he really a difference maker?
Okoro is the same height (or close) to Brunson. But Lavert is close to 6'6 with more agility and length than Brunson. He scares me the most. Run some Grimes pick and pop to create mis-matches. But if RJ or Mitchy sets picks, a hard double will come and put those guys in bad situations. But if Grimes sets picks, it keeps him involved and leave him open on those jumpers. Thats the only strategy I can think of to reduce the impact of Laverts defense on Brunson. Brunson needs to forget reduce the Iso plays, and seek out the mis-matches. This will get Grimes going as well.
RJ is fine. We need him to limit his outside shooting and focus on downhill plays. Thats his bread and butter. Even if he's only going left, you still have to guard him, and somebody will be open every time they help.
Okoro is their wing listed at 6-5. brunson is a generous 6-2 and our best weapon.
I did not notice who Brunson as covering but assuming they put him on Lavert and thats gonna be a problem.
Brunson on Garland or DM is also.
Nobody can stay in front of Garland. Mcbride has not shown to be fearless on offense as has IQ. Its imperative that IQ do his thing. If he can,, and Josh is ok, they can finish the game out.
Not sure who wins tonite but game should be closer.
Nalod wrote:Okoro is their wing listed at 6-5. brunson is a generous 6-2 and our best weapon.
I did not notice who Brunson as covering but assuming they put him on Lavert and thats gonna be a problem.
Brunson on Garland or DM is also.
Nobody can stay in front of Garland. Mcbride has not shown to be fearless on offense as has IQ. Its imperative that IQ do his thing. If he can,, and Josh is ok, they can finish the game out. Not sure who wins tonite but game should be closer.
6’5 is okoro? Wow he looks smaller on tv. Brunson makes dude taller than him look small. Don’t know how he can score inside so well.
blkexec wrote:Nalod wrote:Okoro is their wing listed at 6-5. brunson is a generous 6-2 and our best weapon.
I did not notice who Brunson as covering but assuming they put him on Lavert and thats gonna be a problem.
Brunson on Garland or DM is also.
Nobody can stay in front of Garland. Mcbride has not shown to be fearless on offense as has IQ. Its imperative that IQ do his thing. If he can,, and Josh is ok, they can finish the game out. Not sure who wins tonite but game should be closer.
6’5 is okoro? Wow he looks smaller on tv. Brunson makes dude taller than him look small. Don’t know how he can score inside so well.
Brunson is a crafty one. He has defied his stature for years.
fishmike wrote:If RJ has another invisible first qtr Im tempted to give McBride his 2nd qtr minutes. McBride gives you two things RJ doesn that we need: he's plus defender and can handle Garland/DM/Levert and he's an extra ball handler
I have to disagree with you here.
I actually feel RJ may be an important key in this series. There is ONE thing that RJ does well and thats drive to the basket. If he can get that doing, and get the Cavs BIGS in foul trouble early, the Knicks can easily win this game.
Outside of Allen and Mobley, the Cavs lack quality big men on the bench. As a matter of fact, Cavs bench players overall are pretty bad. Get them out of them game early, that will (hopefully) disrupt their rhythm and the Knicks should be alright tonight
