Knicks · Seriously how can we keep this team together 2024-5? Keeping Obi, IQ the whole team Let's be creative (page 1)

Papabear Says

I know that Obi may want to move on but I see the team if they stay together they can win a chip.How can we move money around to not go over the limit.Randle is a good player but he is to moody and thats why we need Obi because there is no telling what Randlw may do. Right now everything fits. I want to see this unit go all the way. Remember they are home grown. What do you think it will take to keep Obi and IQ ?

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

I know that Obi may want to move on but I see the team if they stay together they can win a chip.How can we move money around to not go over the limit.Randle is a good player but he is to moody and thats why we need Obi because there is no telling what Randlw may do. Right now everything fits. I want to see this unit go all the way. Remember they are home grown. What do you think it will take to keep Obi and IQ ?

Does everything fit? I wouldn't worry about it unless they win a title. There's still room for improvement and the team still has needs. I'm just hoping they can get value for Obi in a deal.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

I know that Obi may want to move on but I see the team if they stay together they can win a chip.How can we move money around to not go over the limit.Randle is a good player but he is to moody and thats why we need Obi because there is no telling what Randlw may do. Right now everything fits. I want to see this unit go all the way. Remember they are home grown. What do you think it will take to keep Obi and IQ ?

Does everything fit? I wouldn't worry about it unless they win a title. There's still room for improvement and the team still has needs. I'm just hoping they can get value for Obi in a deal.

The FO might decide after the playoffs, that there is more value in keeping Obi in NY. With more minutes next season.

Thibs has his favorites, the FO might have some as well.

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

I know that Obi may want to move on but I see the team if they stay together they can win a chip.How can we move money around to not go over the limit.Randle is a good player but he is to moody and thats why we need Obi because there is no telling what Randlw may do. Right now everything fits. I want to see this unit go all the way. Remember they are home grown. What do you think it will take to keep Obi and IQ ?

Just enjoy it. Perhaps we can improve and like the future even more with new players.
Change is inevitable.
Win a chip then you run it back. But thats a long road to june from here!!!!

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

I know that Obi may want to move on but I see the team if they stay together they can win a chip.How can we move money around to not go over the limit.Randle is a good player but he is to moody and thats why we need Obi because there is no telling what Randlw may do. Right now everything fits. I want to see this unit go all the way. Remember they are home grown. What do you think it will take to keep Obi and IQ ?

Shouldn’t be an issue. We have bird rights in everyone on the roster. So, keeping players is solely a function of money and willingness to sign. Looking at Josh Hart.

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

I know that Obi may want to move on but I see the team if they stay together they can win a chip.How can we move money around to not go over the limit.Randle is a good player but he is to moody and thats why we need Obi because there is no telling what Randlw may do. Right now everything fits. I want to see this unit go all the way. Remember they are home grown. What do you think it will take to keep Obi and IQ ?

Does everything fit? I wouldn't worry about it unless they win a title. There's still room for improvement and the team still has needs. I'm just hoping they can get value for Obi in a deal.

The FO might decide after the playoffs, that there is more value in keeping Obi in NY. With more minutes next season.

Thibs has his favorites, the FO might have some as well.

Possibility. But I just don't see wanting Obi to stay here long-term and I wouldn't blame him. His entire career has been spent being Randle's caddie. He probably wants to spread his wings.

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

I know that Obi may want to move on but I see the team if they stay together they can win a chip.How can we move money around to not go over the limit.Randle is a good player but he is to moody and thats why we need Obi because there is no telling what Randlw may do. Right now everything fits. I want to see this unit go all the way. Remember they are home grown. What do you think it will take to keep Obi and IQ ?

The Knicks aren’t paying 1 person max and have bargain contracts across the board. They have plenty of breathing room. I don’t see an issue paying Hart, Quickley and Toppin what they are worth, although I would say Toppin still hasn’t earned anything significant.

I still think Toppin may not be a long term player and may eventually be replaced with a player on a rookie deal or MLE, but you never know. Barrett is buying himself some more time to not be replacing by a better “fit” as well. To me it kind of seems like Brunson, Randle, Barrett, Quickley, Hart, Grimes and the center pair are a group they will try to keep together as long as they continue to build and win.

Unless Quickley or Hart start asking for ridiculous amounts, I think it is likely the team resigns both. I agree Obi is likely gone in 2025, but he should be with us next year. Rose likely will be released, and Fourier will be traded either this summer or next year’s trade deadline.

The Knicks have Bird rights on practically everyone except for Hartenstein.

If the Knicks are championship worthy, it behooves the Knicks to go (way) over the cap to keep the team together, right?

The CBA is set up so it's possible to keep your draft picks, though it will cost you money! Ah, the curse of finding good free agents, then finishing up your roster via draft picks.

The obvious trade bait pieces are Fournier and Rose, if they want cap relief.

Fournier's expiring deal next season will get us value when a team seeks that expiring to shed a 18 million dollar contract or it will be used to match a contract in a bigger deal. Team is really set up well with draft capital for sustainable long term winning. I say give Hart and IQ market value and offer Obi a fair extension and watch him take it. Knicks win game 4 and went up 3-1 and Julius didn't speak to the media cause he had a bad game. Julius trade him while his value is high, or keep Randal and play Obi 20-30 minutes during the season behind Julius and RJ more.

Obis value league wide ? Will another team give a starters spot, versus just drafting another low cost player on a rookie deal. Obi on the market is he worth more then Hachimura or Bey ? I sort of think if we offer him a good fair deal in comparison to the value of a Hachimura we keep Obi. Obi can make millions and be home with the Knicks with his friends. A fair deal keeps him. If we end up moving on from Randall in a season or two then Ibis next deal after the extension becomes lucrative
I say he stays.

Whether we keep this exact team together or not, I'm just thrilled that this team is filled with value players (aside from EF) and not saddled with huge immoveable contracts on chronically injured or old players. We've got youth, we've got assets, and we've got all our own draft picks after this year (+others' picks). The Knicks have never been is such good roster shape since Ewing was drafted.
I trust this FO to stand pat OR to make a move to bring in another (or different) heavy hitter.
Also, not to be underappreciated, somehow, this FO is able to sign players to team friendly deals. If they can do that with IQ and jHart, too, it will be a thing of beauty.

technomaster wrote:The Knicks have Bird rights on practically everyone except for Hartenstein.

If the Knicks are championship worthy, it behooves the Knicks to go (way) over the cap to keep the team together, right?

The CBA is set up so it's possible to keep your draft picks, though it will cost you money! Ah, the curse of finding good free agents, then finishing up your roster via draft picks.

The obvious trade bait pieces are Fournier and Rose, if they want cap relief.

My guess is that either RJ, Randle, IQ, will be traded in the offseason. Maybe two of them. Im guessing that the FO will make another move for a star.

Alpha1971 wrote:Fournier's expiring deal next season will get us value when a team seeks that expiring to shed a 18 million dollar contract or it will be used to match a contract in a bigger deal. Team is really set up well with draft capital for sustainable long term winning. I say give Hart and IQ market value and offer Obi a fair extension and watch him take it. Knicks win game 4 and went up 3-1 and Julius didn't speak to the media cause he had a bad game. Julius trade him while his value is high, or keep Randal and play Obi 20-30 minutes during the season behind Julius and RJ more.

The stuff about Randle not speaking to the media is very much overblown. Knicks will say they didn’t make him available because they wanted the focus on the players who closed out the game and Randle was getting treatment in a private area. End of story. I don’t get why this is always a thing and not being made available by the team suddenly makes a player a bad teammate. I guarantee the rest of the Knicks players do not care whether he talks to the media or not.

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

I know that Obi may want to move on but I see the team if they stay together they can win a chip.How can we move money around to not go over the limit.Randle is a good player but he is to moody and thats why we need Obi because there is no telling what Randlw may do. Right now everything fits. I want to see this unit go all the way. Remember they are home grown. What do you think it will take to keep Obi and IQ ?

We’ve got to get to that 2nd round and keep playing well.

That will sort out who can play in playoffs and who can’t, will also likely increase perceived value of our roster.

Going into to game 3 I would have said 100% RJ most likely to be moved but now Julius struggling AGAIN and IQ an offensive no show thru 4 games is a red flag.

Best thing is to get everyone playing well so that all values high going into off season and see how front office plays this out.

But #1 - we need to close out this series. Where is the Game 5 must win game thread?

GustavBahler wrote:

technomaster wrote:The Knicks have Bird rights on practically everyone except for Hartenstein.

If the Knicks are championship worthy, it behooves the Knicks to go (way) over the cap to keep the team together, right?

The CBA is set up so it's possible to keep your draft picks, though it will cost you money! Ah, the curse of finding good free agents, then finishing up your roster via draft picks.

The obvious trade bait pieces are Fournier and Rose, if they want cap relief.

My guess is that either RJ, Randle, IQ, will be traded in the offseason. Maybe two of them. Im guessing that the FO will make another move for a star.

Not really sure why. Especially in a season like this, this is a potentially championship worthy squad. We have 2 legit big number producers in Brunson and Randle, both with upside still to their games.

Then you have this unstoppable force of strong draft picks that you expect to get incrementally better over the next 2 years through experience.

What do we want - a star with some baggage or injury issues that we HOPE will be healthy come playoff time? That’s sort of what most other teams are dealing with.

The east is wide open, esp with injuries to Embiid (totally predictable), Giannis, half the fragile Heat roster. You can say similar about the western conference teams.

Our youth tends to play into greater resiliency to injury…

I’m not saying we won’t make a trade - it’s just that the specific need of where to upgrade is not so clear to me.

technomaster wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

technomaster wrote:The Knicks have Bird rights on practically everyone except for Hartenstein.

If the Knicks are championship worthy, it behooves the Knicks to go (way) over the cap to keep the team together, right?

The CBA is set up so it's possible to keep your draft picks, though it will cost you money! Ah, the curse of finding good free agents, then finishing up your roster via draft picks.

The obvious trade bait pieces are Fournier and Rose, if they want cap relief.

My guess is that either RJ, Randle, IQ, will be traded in the offseason. Maybe two of them. Im guessing that the FO will make another move for a star.

Not really sure why. Especially in a season like this, this is a potentially championship worthy squad. We have 2 legit big number producers in Brunson and Randle, both with upside still to their games.

Then you have this unstoppable force of strong draft picks that you expect to get incrementally better over the next 2 years through experience.

What do we want - a star with some baggage or injury issues that we HOPE will be healthy come playoff time? That’s sort of what most other teams are dealing with.

The east is wide open, esp with injuries to Embiid (totally predictable), Giannis, half the fragile Heat roster. You can say similar about the western conference teams.

Our youth tends to play into greater resiliency to injury…

I’m not saying we won’t make a trade - it’s just that the specific need of where to upgrade is not so clear to me.

I still think we can upgrade the SF, in spite of the last two games better performance. I'd still rather have an athletic shooter, if there is one to be had.

Panos wrote:

technomaster wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

technomaster wrote:The Knicks have Bird rights on practically everyone except for Hartenstein.

If the Knicks are championship worthy, it behooves the Knicks to go (way) over the cap to keep the team together, right?

The CBA is set up so it's possible to keep your draft picks, though it will cost you money! Ah, the curse of finding good free agents, then finishing up your roster via draft picks.

The obvious trade bait pieces are Fournier and Rose, if they want cap relief.

My guess is that either RJ, Randle, IQ, will be traded in the offseason. Maybe two of them. Im guessing that the FO will make another move for a star.

Not really sure why. Especially in a season like this, this is a potentially championship worthy squad. We have 2 legit big number producers in Brunson and Randle, both with upside still to their games.

Then you have this unstoppable force of strong draft picks that you expect to get incrementally better over the next 2 years through experience.

What do we want - a star with some baggage or injury issues that we HOPE will be healthy come playoff time? That’s sort of what most other teams are dealing with.

The east is wide open, esp with injuries to Embiid (totally predictable), Giannis, half the fragile Heat roster. You can say similar about the western conference teams.

Our youth tends to play into greater resiliency to injury…

I’m not saying we won’t make a trade - it’s just that the specific need of where to upgrade is not so clear to me.

I still think we can upgrade the SF, in spite of the last two games better performance. I'd still rather have an athletic shooter, if there is one to be had.

You want 25 year old StarJay now?? LOL........
Maybe so. Also, despote Randle's Allstar cred, we need a different type of PF?
Curious if the issue is their aggregate fit? I know the questions, not the answers.

Nalod wrote:

Panos wrote:

technomaster wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

technomaster wrote:The Knicks have Bird rights on practically everyone except for Hartenstein.

If the Knicks are championship worthy, it behooves the Knicks to go (way) over the cap to keep the team together, right?

The CBA is set up so it's possible to keep your draft picks, though it will cost you money! Ah, the curse of finding good free agents, then finishing up your roster via draft picks.

The obvious trade bait pieces are Fournier and Rose, if they want cap relief.

My guess is that either RJ, Randle, IQ, will be traded in the offseason. Maybe two of them. Im guessing that the FO will make another move for a star.

Not really sure why. Especially in a season like this, this is a potentially championship worthy squad. We have 2 legit big number producers in Brunson and Randle, both with upside still to their games.

Then you have this unstoppable force of strong draft picks that you expect to get incrementally better over the next 2 years through experience.

What do we want - a star with some baggage or injury issues that we HOPE will be healthy come playoff time? That’s sort of what most other teams are dealing with.

The east is wide open, esp with injuries to Embiid (totally predictable), Giannis, half the fragile Heat roster. You can say similar about the western conference teams.

Our youth tends to play into greater resiliency to injury…

I’m not saying we won’t make a trade - it’s just that the specific need of where to upgrade is not so clear to me.

I still think we can upgrade the SF, in spite of the last two games better performance. I'd still rather have an athletic shooter, if there is one to be had.

You want 25 year old StarJay now?? LOL........
Maybe so. Also, despote Randle's Allstar cred, we need a different type of PF?
Curious if the issue is their aggregate fit? I know the questions, not the answers.

I know Randle hasn’t been good but I’m not getting rid of him because he and Brunson fit very well together and Randle has gotten us to this point. He also doesn’t miss many games. He’s frustrating but he’s our guy. Upgrading over Barrett seems like the obvious path but it’s still so complicated. Knicks would love Anunoby but does he step up and do things like Barrett has in the playoffs? Do the Knicks win both games 3 and 4 with OG instead of RJ? I’m thinking maybe not. Doesn’t mean you dont make the trade, but replacing Barrett is very complicated.

Knixkik wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Panos wrote:

technomaster wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

technomaster wrote:The Knicks have Bird rights on practically everyone except for Hartenstein.

If the Knicks are championship worthy, it behooves the Knicks to go (way) over the cap to keep the team together, right?

The CBA is set up so it's possible to keep your draft picks, though it will cost you money! Ah, the curse of finding good free agents, then finishing up your roster via draft picks.

The obvious trade bait pieces are Fournier and Rose, if they want cap relief.

My guess is that either RJ, Randle, IQ, will be traded in the offseason. Maybe two of them. Im guessing that the FO will make another move for a star.

Not really sure why. Especially in a season like this, this is a potentially championship worthy squad. We have 2 legit big number producers in Brunson and Randle, both with upside still to their games.

Then you have this unstoppable force of strong draft picks that you expect to get incrementally better over the next 2 years through experience.

What do we want - a star with some baggage or injury issues that we HOPE will be healthy come playoff time? That’s sort of what most other teams are dealing with.

The east is wide open, esp with injuries to Embiid (totally predictable), Giannis, half the fragile Heat roster. You can say similar about the western conference teams.

Our youth tends to play into greater resiliency to injury…

I’m not saying we won’t make a trade - it’s just that the specific need of where to upgrade is not so clear to me.

I still think we can upgrade the SF, in spite of the last two games better performance. I'd still rather have an athletic shooter, if there is one to be had.

You want 25 year old StarJay now?? LOL........
Maybe so. Also, despote Randle's Allstar cred, we need a different type of PF?
Curious if the issue is their aggregate fit? I know the questions, not the answers.

I know Randle hasn’t been good but I’m not getting rid of him because he and Brunson fit very well together and Randle has gotten us to this point. He also doesn’t miss many games. He’s frustrating but he’s our guy. Upgrading over Barrett seems like the obvious path but it’s still so complicated. Knicks would love Anunoby but does he step up and do things like Barrett has in the playoffs? Do the Knicks win both games 3 and 4 with OG instead of RJ? I’m thinking maybe not. Doesn’t mean you dont make the trade, but replacing Barrett is very complicated.

Its not a stretch to think RJ can be as good as OG, but just different? Rj has a rep for good defense prior to this year, and he is doing a very good job.
Not to blame, but perhaps some of RJ's struggles is on Thibs? not saying he is not doing a good job, but what is he asking or not asking him to do this year vs. previous?
RJ prior to this year put up decent to good 3pt shooting numbers. He needed work on getting to the rim and finishing/getting to the line. He did that and well!!
Its complicated and for the fan an enigma. We tend to solve by "trade them for the better alternative".

If you move someone like Randle, it fundamentally changes the way we function as a team. You lose his bulk and muscle, it changes your ask out of your other big men to make up. And who plays PF? Obi? Then who’s his backup? Who’s the other primary scorer other than Brunson?

I mean, as flawed as Randle is (not very!) there are maybe 15 more consistent players in the whole NBA in terms of game to game impact.

You’ll be banking that his touches would be distributed around the team and allow for growth. Absolutely true. Maybe Mitch becomes more like Gobert or rebounds like vintage Deandre Jordan. Maybe Obi fulfills his all-star destiny. RJ, Quickley, and Grimes take the next steps. And maybe the player we acquire fits like a glove, even better than Randle.

Lots of maybes, lots of uncertainty. I mean maybe you give him up and the team is worse for it.

So I do agree, maybe we could use a tall, long wing that looks like Reddish, Barnes, Hunter, OG, except has the game of Josh Hart.

OG is a really nice player, fierce defender, but he doesn’t do what Hart does. It all comes down to cost.

I have a feeling that we may be getting to that Patrick Ewing “just need that final piece” phase soon as contenders, where we’re lauding additions like Chris Mills or Xavier McDaniel or Anthony Bonner. Where we feel like stars are in place but need little a little more.

As opposed to, “man I hate our best and most consistent player Randle, we need to move him pronto!”