Knicks · [Game Thread 5/8/23] 2nd Round - Game 4 vs Heat - 7:30 TNT (page 20)

GustavBahler @ 5/9/2023 3:43 AM
joec32033 wrote:
Clean wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:

Get this guy off the team.

I been on that train for a long time. People will get fooled next regular season and go back to defending him.

I don't think that is how he should lead if he is the leader he envisions himself to be....but then again...

....and I like Randle.....

Brunson has been the team leader since he signed with the Knicks. And Randle was all too happy to pass on that responsibility to him. We can see why in the fourth quarter, and in the playoffs.

I will be very surprised if he is a Knick next season.

Philc1 @ 5/9/2023 5:56 AM
Clean wrote:We got teams with stars like Booker/Durant or Lebron/AD and we have to watch low effort and Low FG percentage Randle ISO all game long.

Let’s work on that next extension

Philc1 @ 5/9/2023 6:27 AM
LivingLegend wrote:
Philc1 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Philc1 wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
WP76 wrote:Sixth on Randle with an offensive foul...we're done.

Might be a blessing.

Only if that gets him traded.

We wont get better with Rsndle as the second option.

No we won’t - fools gold and I fell for it. He’s dumb and dumber in 1 body.

See if Cuban is willing to do Randle for Kyrie straight up. I hate Kyrie but I’m done with Randle after these playoffs

Hell no to Kyrie, destroyer of teams.

We are going nowhere with randle

Wonder if Wolves would give us K-Anderson and J-McDaniels for Jules — 2 solid players…1 smart and 1 with some upside.

It’s time to move on. The ceiling with Randle is 44-47 wins and 1st or 2nd round exit. And that’s if everything goes right

Chandler @ 5/9/2023 7:13 AM
Looks like all the julius haters stayed up late last night to vent

If there were a search function one could see i have had my fair share of Julius criticisms. That said, i don’t think he deserves the vitriol in this series. I could be wrong but he looks hobbled to me — the whole series. He still has his flaws but I’m not going to criticize a guy who IMO is trying to give everything he has

I’m still hoping for the turnaround but if we’re going to lose, losing to an opponent which is hustling its ass off is the best of the bunch of shitty choices

Personally i think Spo has the Heat a step ahead of us (man i want to punch that guy — for other reasons). Early in the series he was having guys blitz to clog the pant on drives last couple of games i t seems he has fewer guys blitz and taking charges. We keep barreling over them. I fully expect that byt the time we adjust to that they’ll pivot to their next tactic


We’ve been off balance the whole series. We need to turn the tide on that one

ramtour420 @ 5/9/2023 7:25 AM
Honestly Jules gave us everything he has. Played through pain. Did not break down mentally. This is just who he is. This is the best he he capable of on the Knicks. 20/9/4 is still nothing to sneeze at.He does have another level, but for that you have to put him in a proper PnR offense where he plays the Malone role and he would dominate. I hope it doesn't happen against us. I wouldn't want to trade him to an Eastern conference team.
Nalod @ 5/9/2023 8:30 AM
martin wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
Rookie wrote:
martin wrote:
Chandler wrote:Jimmy is tough as nails but that ankle is not good.

I suspect Miami will do there 3-2 zone as much as they can to give Jimmy a bit of a break but we have to break that and make him work. This is like letting Trae guard bullock in the corner. We gave Trae a pass. We'll need to hit some shots to get them out of their zone and then we need to run Butler and Lowry all over the place

obviously Jimmy is an elite defender but we need to grind him down. WHat's the alternative, give him a free pass and just hope he starts to suck?

Still have Knicks in 7

I will fully admit I did not watch second half of last game so didn’t watch all of Jimmy’s play. How can you tell how bad his ankle is? Is he limping while playing?

And how do you beat the 3-2 zone with the 3point shooting the Knicks currently have going on?

1. Buttler turned his ankle again, 2x on the same play in the 4th and limped around when play was stopped. He also looked like there was zero effect when play started. Dude is a tough SOB

2. We have been struggling against the zone for 3 years. It has been our kryptonite. The refs make it impossible to get anyone in foul trouble attacking the basket. We need to out effort the Heat cuz that's what it is going to take. No Miami flu this game!

I would look at hiring a shooting coach. Cause our shooting needs more coaching.

Right, or longer term reshape roster.

I think all things being equal, Grimes and Brunson will return to form but maybe not immediately. RJ has really never been a good shooter and may never be and that’s a position you need shooting from. Randle can be dangerous enough but it’s obvious he is just hurt or off right now.

Yada yada he is 22 but realistically RJ does one thing well and it’s going left while downhill and is the easiest cover ever if he is not hitting from downtown and you really only need to worry about that like once every 5 games or whatnot.

Knicks have decisions to make.

His right has been sneaky good of late.
When I repeat RJ is 22, its also that he is hard to define. He has busted about very good and bad “Myth” about him.
Can’t shoot? Then he does.
Can’t go right? He does.
Can’t pass. They he playmakes.
Is a good defender, then he is not.
Etc etc.
I can’t pigeon hole him, and neither can most anyone.
He is inconsistant.
He is not soft.

I appreciate Grimes efforts but he is still very green. I appreciate Thibs still plays him and stuck with his yoots that got us here.

HofstraBBall @ 5/9/2023 8:30 AM
Chandler wrote:Looks like all the julius haters stayed up late last night to vent

If there were a search function one could see i have had my fair share of Julius criticisms. That said, i don’t think he deserves the vitriol in this series. I could be wrong but he looks hobbled to me — the whole series. He still has his flaws but I’m not going to criticize a guy who IMO is trying to give everything he has

I’m still hoping for the turnaround but if we’re going to lose, losing to an opponent which is hustling its ass off is the best of the bunch of shitty choices

Personally i think Spo has the Heat a step ahead of us (man i want to punch that guy — for other reasons). Early in the series he was having guys blitz to clog the pant on drives last couple of games i t seems he has fewer guys blitz and taking charges. We keep barreling over them. I fully expect that byt the time we adjust to that they’ll pivot to their next tactic


We’ve been off balance the whole series. We need to turn the tide on that one

Not so much haters but rather low Bball IQ fans.

Anyone who has watched these games and thinks ONE player is the cause does not know basketball..

The Heat are an example of ball movement, ball rotation and most of all, PROFESSIONAL shooting.
Anyone who has not noticed our shooting percentage is oblivious .
We have wings that cannot hit an open three.
We have a bench that was not able to score.

Unfortunately, what I said at begining of the year is holding true. We do not have enough shooting.
We have good players but not a true number one that can o overcome a solid defensive team with elite scoring ability. We have too many players that hold the rock.

Yes, Randle has not shot well. Yes he has to work on turnovers. However blaming him on a bim ankle for the loss of the series is shortsighted as to what ALL the things that need to be improved.
I called for an upgrade at SG, which is usually a teams highest scoring position. We have a center that cannot make a foul shot. We have a bench that has been outclassed.

Things we can improve on. Question is if it will internally or externally.

martin @ 5/9/2023 8:32 AM
Clean wrote:

This guy is not a winner.

100% and great clips, thanks.

For me, this is why Randle can't be a player to rely on as a dominant player on your team. He is a tone setter by personality (which CONSTANTLY needs to be managed at the expense of coaches and players alike) and he doesn't have it to perform well in that role cause he is easily shook when things don't go right for him.

When locked in, he can carry a team for months at a time. Incredible physical talent and can easily overwhelm a majority of players and even teams. I'd go as far as saying that he would or could probably even win you an early round of playoff games when healthy and with a good match-up (like Cleveland). Teams like Miami or Milwaukee when healthy are an easy match-up against him.

You either need a Jimmy Butler type above him in the pecking order - I'd say Jalen could be a candidate here but he is not yet ready or just hasn't gotten to the point yet of figuring out how to handle the situation but certainly doing the right things.

But he is and always will be combustible.

Nalod @ 5/9/2023 8:32 AM
fitzfarm wrote:
Nalod wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:We need to set the tone in this game and get physical, I want to see in the first few plays bam getting his a s s dropped hard on his bull S HIT picks . Make him think twice about setting illegal screens … I don’t even care if it’s a Tech…. Set the fuvking TONE let the heat know we aren’t letting them get anything easy …. You set that screen and we are gonna knock you the fuvk out

and said player gets ejected. Who is said player to be ejected?

There’s a way to do it without getting ejected just run strait into him full speed and knock his ass down hard just like what Kobe did to gasol in the Olympics… at worst you get a T .

Flagrant 2 was not in the olympics 20 years ago.

Nalod @ 5/9/2023 8:35 AM
blkexec wrote:Instant turnover when deuce came in.

Release the deuce

The Stus was Deuce………

martin @ 5/9/2023 8:40 AM
VDesai wrote:Lowry saved all his misses for the regular season

He and RJ kinda sorta sharing a plan

martin @ 5/9/2023 8:41 AM
BigDaddyG wrote:Does Spo let the refs bang his wife?

hahahaahaha

martin @ 5/9/2023 8:52 AM
Clean wrote:
Like had been said before if you don't do stuff like this and moving screens you are playing at a disadvantage. I knew Jimmy would get a crazy whistle. I did not take into account Lowry. Bam constantly did moving screens the whole series and got called for one today. Why do we not do them also? We are playing a losing game.

It's an experience and smarts thing Clean. Vets know how to do these things. Smart players know how to take advantage of those situations.

Knicks are very young and really are lacking in the smart department. Our top3 guys: RJ, Randle, Brunson... only 1 of them is above average smart. Mitch? Nope. iHart, yup but needs more seasoning. IQ, Grimes... eyes still wide open cause they overwhelmed newbies. Guys like Taj? He does those picks and such all the time.

martin @ 5/9/2023 9:05 AM
OK, so these are clips posted above... I was in and out the first half and didn't catch the second half.

Was this the ref'ing tone of the game? Both sides this bad or was it typical nonsense against Knicks?

These fouls are completely awful and especially so when I see what Bam and others get away with in previous games.

Clean @ 5/9/2023 9:07 AM
martin wrote:
Clean wrote:
Like had been said before if you don't do stuff like this and moving screens you are playing at a disadvantage. I knew Jimmy would get a crazy whistle. I did not take into account Lowry. Bam constantly did moving screens the whole series and got called for one today. Why do we not do them also? We are playing a losing game.

It's an experience and smarts thing Clean. Vets know how to do these things. Smart players know how to take advantage of those situations.

Knicks are very young and really are lacking in the smart department. Our top3 guys: RJ, Randle, Brunson... only 1 of them is above average smart. Mitch? Nope. iHart, yup but needs more seasoning. IQ, Grimes... eyes still wide open cause they overwhelmed newbies. Guys like Taj? He does those picks and such all the time.

Austin Reaves picked up these things really fast. During that stretch when he was playing MVP level basketball he got more free throws than FGs attempted. He was in the 2021 NBA Draft. Youth is not an excuse.

Nalod @ 5/9/2023 9:07 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:
Chandler wrote:Looks like all the julius haters stayed up late last night to vent

If there were a search function one could see i have had my fair share of Julius criticisms. That said, i don’t think he deserves the vitriol in this series. I could be wrong but he looks hobbled to me — the whole series. He still has his flaws but I’m not going to criticize a guy who IMO is trying to give everything he has

I’m still hoping for the turnaround but if we’re going to lose, losing to an opponent which is hustling its ass off is the best of the bunch of shitty choices

Personally i think Spo has the Heat a step ahead of us (man i want to punch that guy — for other reasons). Early in the series he was having guys blitz to clog the pant on drives last couple of games i t seems he has fewer guys blitz and taking charges. We keep barreling over them. I fully expect that byt the time we adjust to that they’ll pivot to their next tactic


We’ve been off balance the whole series. We need to turn the tide on that one

Not so much haters but rather low Bball IQ fans.

Anyone who has watched these games and thinks ONE player is the cause does not know basketball..

The Heat are an example of ball movement, ball rotation and most of all, PROFESSIONAL shooting.
Anyone who has not noticed our shooting percentage is oblivious .
We have wings that cannot hit an open three.
We have a bench that was not able to score.

Unfortunately, what I said at begining of the year is holding true. We do not have enough shooting.
We have good players but not a true number one that can o overcome a solid defensive team with elite scoring ability. We have too many players that hold the rock.

Yes, Randle has not shot well. Yes he has to work on turnovers. However blaming him on a bim ankle for the loss of the series is shortsighted as to what ALL the things that need to be improved.
I called for an upgrade at SG, which is usually a teams highest scoring position. We have a center that cannot make a foul shot. We have a bench that has been outclassed.

Things we can improve on. Question is if it will internally or externally.

Good take. Not sure any of our opinions are on the money but some good stuff being thrown out.
Nalod does think Randle is hobbled and its breaking him. He is an allstar with flaws. He is not a max player nor paid like one. He is our best big for now. I think he is mentally shot from a long season and playing since the end of march with an injury. He tried, he helped us get thru Cavs. Heat are a whole other animal.
The Jab step boogie he does in Iso is hard to watch. Nothing else is working though.
Brunson is having to work way too hard to create.
RJ looks more at ease than anyone right now not forcing it and letting the game come to him.
Grimes is not ready for this. Yet.
IQ too was out of his league. For now.
Josh Hart is too good to be true miracle met is match.
Old teams win. Not Minny, not Grizz, Not even Sac!!!! Cavs? Nope. Milwaukee? They ran into a rejuvinated and finally healthy Heat team.
Im sure many of you are finding a new respect for them. I know I have this series.
We had an excellent season with Randle and the inconsistant RJ. Not sure keystroke trades are really the answer but i get the frustration. I hate watching this version of Randle but I think he is broken physically and is taking his mental side with it.

There is a game 5 still. I’ll be cheering. Greatness is born from these moments. Im happy we are still here.

blkexec @ 5/9/2023 9:11 AM
I don’t think we can get passed the second round with RJ and Randle on the team and in the starting lineup. Randle is well respected and the only 2x all star on the team. RJ is only 22 (lmao) Gotts make a move during this off season.
martin @ 5/9/2023 9:12 AM
Clean wrote:
martin wrote:
Clean wrote:
Like had been said before if you don't do stuff like this and moving screens you are playing at a disadvantage. I knew Jimmy would get a crazy whistle. I did not take into account Lowry. Bam constantly did moving screens the whole series and got called for one today. Why do we not do them also? We are playing a losing game.

It's an experience and smarts thing Clean. Vets know how to do these things. Smart players know how to take advantage of those situations.

Knicks are very young and really are lacking in the smart department. Our top3 guys: RJ, Randle, Brunson... only 1 of them is above average smart. Mitch? Nope. iHart, yup but needs more seasoning. IQ, Grimes... eyes still wide open cause they overwhelmed newbies. Guys like Taj? He does those picks and such all the time.

Austin Reaves picked up these things really fast. During that stretch when he was playing MVP level basketball he got more free throws than FGs attempted. He was in the 2021 NBA Draft. Youth is not an excuse.

So if you find one play from one player it means everyone should be able to perform with the savvy and experience of the smartest or more experienced guys out there?

Are you just surprised when all rookies just don't come in and perform this way? Why can't they all do what Harden is doing all the time? Or CP3?

I am pretty sure I can find clips of a LOT of rookies doing that.

Do you think that one isolated play from a pretty darn good player is indicative or how all player SHOULD perform?

Reality?

Clean @ 5/9/2023 9:23 AM
martin wrote:
Clean wrote:
martin wrote:
Clean wrote:
Like had been said before if you don't do stuff like this and moving screens you are playing at a disadvantage. I knew Jimmy would get a crazy whistle. I did not take into account Lowry. Bam constantly did moving screens the whole series and got called for one today. Why do we not do them also? We are playing a losing game.

It's an experience and smarts thing Clean. Vets know how to do these things. Smart players know how to take advantage of those situations.

Knicks are very young and really are lacking in the smart department. Our top3 guys: RJ, Randle, Brunson... only 1 of them is above average smart. Mitch? Nope. iHart, yup but needs more seasoning. IQ, Grimes... eyes still wide open cause they overwhelmed newbies. Guys like Taj? He does those picks and such all the time.

Austin Reaves picked up these things really fast. During that stretch when he was playing MVP level basketball he got more free throws than FGs attempted. He was in the 2021 NBA Draft. Youth is not an excuse.

So if you find one play from one player it means everyone should be able to perform with the savvy and experience of the smartest or more experienced guys out there?

Are you just surprised when all rookies just don't come in and perform this way? Why can't they all do what Harden is doing all the time? Or CP3?

I am pretty sure I can find clips of a LOT of rookies doing that.

Do you think that one isolated play from a pretty darn good player is indicative or how all player SHOULD perform?

Reality?

are you really expecting me to find a video of every single play? Lets be serious here. You can look at his fts attempted increase and figure it out.

In an interview during that stretch of games I mentioned before Reaves said he studied Harden and another player and started implementing these things. Sorry but I don't think Austin Reaves is some kind of gifted learner that he can learn things that other NBA players can't. You have to put the effort into learning stuff like this. We don't even do basics like flopping and simple embellishing contact. The exception being Brunson and Hart(who is new to flopping so he is not good at it yet but he is trying). Every one of those moving screens are a chance to flop and force the ref to maybe call it. This is exactly what the Lakers are doing to the Warriors. The Warriors have done moving screens for years. Now the Lakers are flopping on them and got 4 fouls called for that alone in a single game. That is 4 turnovers we would never get. That is huge. Kerr made it a point to call out the Lakers flopping on screens in one of his post game interviews.

martin @ 5/9/2023 9:36 AM
Clean wrote:
are you really expecting me to find a video of every single play? Lets be serious here. You can look at his fts attempted increase and figure it out.

In an interview during that stretch of games I mentioned before Reaves said he studied Harden and another player and started implementing these things. Sorry but I don't think Austin Reaves is some kind of gifted learner that he can learn things that other NBA players can't. You have to put the effort into learning stuff like this. We don't even do basics like flopping and simple embellishing contact. The exception being Brunson and Hart(who is new to flopping so he is not good at it yet but he is trying). Every one of those moving screens are a chance to flop and force the ref to maybe call it. This is exactly what the Lakers are doing to the Warriors. The Warriors have done moving screens for years. Now the Lakers are flopping on them and got 4 fouls called for that alone in a single game. That is 4 turnovers we would never get. That is huge. Kerr made it a point to call out the Lakers flopping on screens in one of his post game interviews.

So why do you think every player in the league doesn't do them? Cause obviously if one person like Reaves does it, anyone can right?

Why hasn't every rookie or young player on every team performed like this? You tell me that. Cause all they need to do is study some film.

Why did it take Mitch 3 years to even learn how to set a pick? Why couldn't he just watch film? and then voila?

Why can't RJ just shoot well, cause he has a shooting coach and he should just learn it?

ccch @ 5/9/2023 9:45 AM
Get rid of JR...but who would want him...a real head case and not that good. His best attribute is dribbling into double teams and coughing up the ball!
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