Knicks · what a good year... I trust the FO but hope we run it back (page 2)
MaTT4281 wrote:I still think the team tries to make a splash with a star level wing player (preparing for at least 2 of IQ/Grimes/RJ/Obi to be moved with picks), but we're definitely not maxed out on potential, and there's a lot to be said for continuity and the chemistry that comes with it. We can level up if...RJ can keep performing like Playoff RJ...
Grimes can find more shots in the offense...
Deuce can hit his open shots consistently...
Obi can give the same quality minutes @ 15mpg as he does at 30 mpg (least confident in this one)...We've got picks, we've got another look at Rokas, and we've got a coaching staff in year 4 that doesn't have a ton of questions with its rotation.
We definitely don't NEED to make a move. Re-sign Hart and get ready for training camp.
Do you have a star wing in mind?
If Grimes can hit his shots, he'll get more. I agree.
*Philly just fired Doc, Harden may be on the move, so do they take a step back?
*Milwaukee fired Coach Bud, may lose Middleton but as long as they have Giannis, they will still be one of the best teams in the east
*Boston's may guns are barely in their prime so I don't see any slippage there
*Cavs are very young and will improve, especially Mobley.
Don't forget, teams that finished below us are scrambling to improve too. I still believe at some point, one of Randle or RJ needs to be moved if the goal is to not only make it to a ECF, but advance past it.
Nalod wrote:MaTT4281 wrote:I still think the team tries to make a splash with a star level wing player (preparing for at least 2 of IQ/Grimes/RJ/Obi to be moved with picks), but we're definitely not maxed out on potential, and there's a lot to be said for continuity and the chemistry that comes with it. We can level up if...RJ can keep performing like Playoff RJ...
Grimes can find more shots in the offense...
Deuce can hit his open shots consistently...
Obi can give the same quality minutes @ 15mpg as he does at 30 mpg (least confident in this one)...We've got picks, we've got another look at Rokas, and we've got a coaching staff in year 4 that doesn't have a ton of questions with its rotation.
We definitely don't NEED to make a move. Re-sign Hart and get ready for training camp.
Do you have a star wing in mind?
If Grimes can hit his shots, he'll get more. I agree.
Just to be clear - not claiming to have any special insight or even suggesting FO SHOULD target one. It was a position we were clearly looking at last summer with Donovan, and while I like the lineup with Grimes (or IQ as I've argued for), I don't expect the FO is in love with it enough to stop looking.
That said, guys I am watching to see "what happens next" include Jaylen Brown and Devin Booker. They're most likely pipe dreams since both would require an absolute haul, but there's been hints at a riff between Brown and the Celtics. Expect this would require Julius to be moved. And I have no clue what PHX wants to do going forward, but you hear talk of them moving CP3, moving Ayton. Just traded for KD - could they look for a fast restructure around him and indisputably be Durant's team next year? Something like this would probably require a 3 way trade.
Step down from there, wouldn't be shocked if Lavine or Derozan were moved from Chicago (not my preferences, but Lavine was someone there were rumors of at the deadline). Brandon Ingram from NO would be a nice look...
Another step down - OG from Toronto (falling outside of the "star category", but would still cost a pretty penny).
I don't like playing the trade proposal game - the number crunchers in the FO are much better at their jobs than I am in finding a way to make everything work. And 99% of the ones that do work never happen.
Uptown wrote:Standing still usually equals moving backwards. If we don't make any moves to our core players, our major hope of moving up in the standings next year is hoping that that a team or two that were better than us this year, takes a step back to the pack.totally disagree with that premise... some of these teams take years to break through. Why do the Cavs (who we owned) get to improve but Knicks staying put = moving backwards?*Philly just fired Doc, Harden may be on the move, so do they take a step back?
*Milwaukee fired Coach Bud, may lose Middleton but as long as they have Giannis, they will still be one of the best teams in the east
*Boston's may guns are barely in their prime so I don't see any slippage there
*Cavs are very young and will improve, especially Mobley.Don't forget, teams that finished below us are scrambling to improve too. I still believe at some point, one of Randle or RJ needs to be moved if the goal is to not only make it to a ECF, but advance past it.
Getting older also means going backwards. Maybe you get closer to a title short term, maybe you dont but your window surely decreases. Im not opposed to changes but this is an ascending team and that's worth seeing out a bit. We really have another whole year before having to make a call on Obi/IQ/McBride and that doesnt include Grimes. To me any trade involving IQ/Grimes is premature if its not bringing back a foundational piece moving forward (cough cough Brandon Ingram)
fishmike wrote:VDesai wrote:I also would like to see this team stay together and re-sign Hart. We do have the Fournier expiring to work with here and could opt in Rose's deal for salary matching. I feel like this team is young and the best play is still yet to come from these guys as a group.I think we would hate Ayton, especially at that price point.In terms of a move would you consider Mitch Rob, Fournier and no.1 pick for Ayton? Not sure that gets it done, but one way to upgrade the offense from center without giving up rebounding is make a move for Ayton. He is a bit of a softy/head case, but maybe with Thibs coaching could be more effective on the defensive end.
I think my biggest motive for running it back is I just dont see a lot of good fits that help us.
I hate Ayton as a player, but when you think about who is attainable, cost and could theoretically improve the team he meets that venn diagram. He needs a kick in the butt to play harder but he gives you the rebounding, stretches the floor more and theoretically could rim protect. At the above cost I'd certainly be open - more than 1 draft pick and its tough.
fishmike wrote:Uptown wrote:Standing still usually equals moving backwards. If we don't make any moves to our core players, our major hope of moving up in the standings next year is hoping that that a team or two that were better than us this year, takes a step back to the pack.totally disagree with that premise... some of these teams take years to break through. Why do the Cavs (who we owned) get to improve but Knicks staying put = moving backwards?*Philly just fired Doc, Harden may be on the move, so do they take a step back?
*Milwaukee fired Coach Bud, may lose Middleton but as long as they have Giannis, they will still be one of the best teams in the east
*Boston's may guns are barely in their prime so I don't see any slippage there
*Cavs are very young and will improve, especially Mobley.Don't forget, teams that finished below us are scrambling to improve too. I still believe at some point, one of Randle or RJ needs to be moved if the goal is to not only make it to a ECF, but advance past it.
Getting older also means going backwards. Maybe you get closer to a title short term, maybe you dont but your window surely decreases. Im not opposed to changes but this is an ascending team and that's worth seeing out a bit. We really have another whole year before having to make a call on Obi/IQ/McBride and that doesnt include Grimes. To me any trade involving IQ/Grimes is premature if its not bringing back a foundational piece moving forward (cough cough Brandon Ingram)
When I say standing still, I mean coming back with the same exact roster, 1-15 sans Rose. I'm not expecting any major moves as far as interrupting the core, but I would expect a few minor moves like moving Fournier, etc.
As far as the Cavs are concerned, I meant to add that I fully expect them to address the wing position in some way shape or form. Also I see Mobley's potential, think he has a ton of upside; enough to be a perennial all-star in the near future as a two-way player. That's the main improvement I see from them.
I don't want to see us move Obi or IQ either. Both, especially Obi, add an element that we lack with the starters and that's the ability to play 94 feet and increase the pace. Would love to see increased roles and minutes for both, but I don't think that's a possibility here, especially for Obi.
Uptown wrote:Cavs have great talent, I thought better than ours but now I'm not so sure. So much of this is fit and chemistry and opportunity. Supermax pretty much make it impossible to build another Heatles.fishmike wrote:Uptown wrote:Standing still usually equals moving backwards. If we don't make any moves to our core players, our major hope of moving up in the standings next year is hoping that that a team or two that were better than us this year, takes a step back to the pack.totally disagree with that premise... some of these teams take years to break through. Why do the Cavs (who we owned) get to improve but Knicks staying put = moving backwards?*Philly just fired Doc, Harden may be on the move, so do they take a step back?
*Milwaukee fired Coach Bud, may lose Middleton but as long as they have Giannis, they will still be one of the best teams in the east
*Boston's may guns are barely in their prime so I don't see any slippage there
*Cavs are very young and will improve, especially Mobley.Don't forget, teams that finished below us are scrambling to improve too. I still believe at some point, one of Randle or RJ needs to be moved if the goal is to not only make it to a ECF, but advance past it.
Getting older also means going backwards. Maybe you get closer to a title short term, maybe you dont but your window surely decreases. Im not opposed to changes but this is an ascending team and that's worth seeing out a bit. We really have another whole year before having to make a call on Obi/IQ/McBride and that doesnt include Grimes. To me any trade involving IQ/Grimes is premature if its not bringing back a foundational piece moving forward (cough cough Brandon Ingram)
When I say standing still, I mean coming back with the same exact roster, 1-15 sans Rose. I'm not expecting any major moves as far as interrupting the core, but I would expect a few minor moves like moving Fournier, etc.
As far as the Cavs are concerned, I meant to add that I fully expect them to address the wing position in some way shape or form. Also I see Mobley's potential, think he has a ton of upside; enough to be a perennial all-star in the near future as a two-way player. That's the main improvement I see from them.
I don't want to see us move Obi or IQ either. Both, especially Obi, add an element that we lack with the starters and that's the ability to play 94 feet and increase the pace. Would love to see increased roles and minutes for both, but I don't think that's a possibility here, especially for Obi.
The only "age" on this roster is Randle 28, Brunson 26 and JHart 27. The rest of the crew are 22-25 and most closer to 22. Randle is coachable and makes adjustments and on a great contract.
I know Fournier wont like it but unless I have a really fantastic trade line up I start the year with him and buy him out at the deadline if nobody has a fire sale. Its very possible (assuming Dal pick doesnt convey this year) we have 2 big expiring deals in Rose/Fournier and like 4 picks over the next 2 years elible for trade. We could add a max guy, offer a good deal and not lose any core guys
fishmike wrote:Uptown wrote:Cavs have great talent, I thought better than ours but now I'm not so sure. So much of this is fit and chemistry and opportunity. Supermax pretty much make it impossible to build another Heatles.fishmike wrote:Uptown wrote:Standing still usually equals moving backwards. If we don't make any moves to our core players, our major hope of moving up in the standings next year is hoping that that a team or two that were better than us this year, takes a step back to the pack.totally disagree with that premise... some of these teams take years to break through. Why do the Cavs (who we owned) get to improve but Knicks staying put = moving backwards?*Philly just fired Doc, Harden may be on the move, so do they take a step back?
*Milwaukee fired Coach Bud, may lose Middleton but as long as they have Giannis, they will still be one of the best teams in the east
*Boston's may guns are barely in their prime so I don't see any slippage there
*Cavs are very young and will improve, especially Mobley.Don't forget, teams that finished below us are scrambling to improve too. I still believe at some point, one of Randle or RJ needs to be moved if the goal is to not only make it to a ECF, but advance past it.
Getting older also means going backwards. Maybe you get closer to a title short term, maybe you dont but your window surely decreases. Im not opposed to changes but this is an ascending team and that's worth seeing out a bit. We really have another whole year before having to make a call on Obi/IQ/McBride and that doesnt include Grimes. To me any trade involving IQ/Grimes is premature if its not bringing back a foundational piece moving forward (cough cough Brandon Ingram)
When I say standing still, I mean coming back with the same exact roster, 1-15 sans Rose. I'm not expecting any major moves as far as interrupting the core, but I would expect a few minor moves like moving Fournier, etc.
As far as the Cavs are concerned, I meant to add that I fully expect them to address the wing position in some way shape or form. Also I see Mobley's potential, think he has a ton of upside; enough to be a perennial all-star in the near future as a two-way player. That's the main improvement I see from them.
I don't want to see us move Obi or IQ either. Both, especially Obi, add an element that we lack with the starters and that's the ability to play 94 feet and increase the pace. Would love to see increased roles and minutes for both, but I don't think that's a possibility here, especially for Obi.
The only "age" on this roster is Randle 28, Brunson 26 and JHart 27. The rest of the crew are 22-25 and most closer to 22. Randle is coachable and makes adjustments and on a great contract.
I know Fournier wont like it but unless I have a really fantastic trade line up I start the year with him and buy him out at the deadline if nobody has a fire sale. Its very possible (assuming Dal pick doesnt convey this year) we have 2 big expiring deals in Rose/Fournier and like 4 picks over the next 2 years elible for trade. We could add a max guy, offer a good deal and not lose any core guys
I guess we disagree about Randle being coachable. I still see a selfish guy who hustles when he wants to. There are a lot of positives to his game but I think we need to move on from him. I guess I am not the only one, here is a link comparing him to Walt Bellamy, a great player who also just showed up when he wanted to. https://nypost.com/2023/05/13/enigmatic-.../
Nalod wrote:MaTT4281 wrote:I still think the team tries to make a splash with a star level wing player (preparing for at least 2 of IQ/Grimes/RJ/Obi to be moved with picks), but we're definitely not maxed out on potential, and there's a lot to be said for continuity and the chemistry that comes with it. We can level up if...RJ can keep performing like Playoff RJ...
Grimes can find more shots in the offense...
Deuce can hit his open shots consistently...
Obi can give the same quality minutes @ 15mpg as he does at 30 mpg (least confident in this one)...We've got picks, we've got another look at Rokas, and we've got a coaching staff in year 4 that doesn't have a ton of questions with its rotation.
We definitely don't NEED to make a move. Re-sign Hart and get ready for training camp.
Do you have a star wing in mind?
If Grimes can hit his shots, he'll get more. I agree.
People don’t like LaVine for some reason but he makes too much sense. He can be a true #2 to brunson, he can shoot, play on or off the ball. He’s not a terrible defender. Only 28 and has stayed fairly healthy the last few years. Barrett, Toppin, cap filler and picks makes too much sense for what the Knicks need. I can’t see a team like a Miami beating Knicks with lavines scoring. But Chicago still has to want to trade him and rebuild which doesn’t seem likely.
Knixkik wrote:Nalod wrote:MaTT4281 wrote:I still think the team tries to make a splash with a star level wing player (preparing for at least 2 of IQ/Grimes/RJ/Obi to be moved with picks), but we're definitely not maxed out on potential, and there's a lot to be said for continuity and the chemistry that comes with it. We can level up if...RJ can keep performing like Playoff RJ...
Grimes can find more shots in the offense...
Deuce can hit his open shots consistently...
Obi can give the same quality minutes @ 15mpg as he does at 30 mpg (least confident in this one)...We've got picks, we've got another look at Rokas, and we've got a coaching staff in year 4 that doesn't have a ton of questions with its rotation.
We definitely don't NEED to make a move. Re-sign Hart and get ready for training camp.
Do you have a star wing in mind?
If Grimes can hit his shots, he'll get more. I agree.People don’t like LaVine for some reason but he makes too much sense. He can be a true #2 to brunson, he can shoot, play on or off the ball. He’s not a terrible defender. Only 28 and has stayed fairly healthy the last few years. Barrett, Toppin, cap filler and picks makes too much sense for what the Knicks need. I can’t see a team like a Miami beating Knicks with lavines scoring. But Chicago still has to want to trade him and rebuild which doesn’t seem likely.
Bulls are going to want IQ, Obi and 3 first round picks. That’s way too big a package to trade within the conference
fishmike wrote:Uptown wrote:Cavs have great talent, I thought better than ours but now I'm not so sure. So much of this is fit and chemistry and opportunity. Supermax pretty much make it impossible to build another Heatles.fishmike wrote:Uptown wrote:Standing still usually equals moving backwards. If we don't make any moves to our core players, our major hope of moving up in the standings next year is hoping that that a team or two that were better than us this year, takes a step back to the pack.totally disagree with that premise... some of these teams take years to break through. Why do the Cavs (who we owned) get to improve but Knicks staying put = moving backwards?*Philly just fired Doc, Harden may be on the move, so do they take a step back?
*Milwaukee fired Coach Bud, may lose Middleton but as long as they have Giannis, they will still be one of the best teams in the east
*Boston's may guns are barely in their prime so I don't see any slippage there
*Cavs are very young and will improve, especially Mobley.Don't forget, teams that finished below us are scrambling to improve too. I still believe at some point, one of Randle or RJ needs to be moved if the goal is to not only make it to a ECF, but advance past it.
Getting older also means going backwards. Maybe you get closer to a title short term, maybe you dont but your window surely decreases. Im not opposed to changes but this is an ascending team and that's worth seeing out a bit. We really have another whole year before having to make a call on Obi/IQ/McBride and that doesnt include Grimes. To me any trade involving IQ/Grimes is premature if its not bringing back a foundational piece moving forward (cough cough Brandon Ingram)
When I say standing still, I mean coming back with the same exact roster, 1-15 sans Rose. I'm not expecting any major moves as far as interrupting the core, but I would expect a few minor moves like moving Fournier, etc.
As far as the Cavs are concerned, I meant to add that I fully expect them to address the wing position in some way shape or form. Also I see Mobley's potential, think he has a ton of upside; enough to be a perennial all-star in the near future as a two-way player. That's the main improvement I see from them.
I don't want to see us move Obi or IQ either. Both, especially Obi, add an element that we lack with the starters and that's the ability to play 94 feet and increase the pace. Would love to see increased roles and minutes for both, but I don't think that's a possibility here, especially for Obi.
The only "age" on this roster is Randle 28, Brunson 26 and JHart 27. The rest of the crew are 22-25 and most closer to 22. Randle is coachable and makes adjustments and on a great contract.
I know Fournier wont like it but unless I have a really fantastic trade line up I start the year with him and buy him out at the deadline if nobody has a fire sale. Its very possible (assuming Dal pick doesnt convey this year) we have 2 big expiring deals in Rose/Fournier and like 4 picks over the next 2 years elible for trade. We could add a max guy, offer a good deal and not lose any core guys
This is where you lost me...
(although he is on a good/decent contract)