Knicks · Celtics or Heat? (page 3)
Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Now that the Heat have secured home court advantage in the conference Finals, does that change the narrative that NY needs to make major changes?So we should not try to get better. Mind blown
Don’t take much to blow your mind?
Grady said “major chnages”.
The Narrative was “Knicks gave heat more push back than Milwaukee or Boston”.
Shame we lost to the heat. Injuries, inexperience, etc
The heat are dropping the naughty on the celts
Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Now that the Heat have secured home court advantage in the conference Finals, does that change the narrative that NY needs to make major changes?So we should not try to get better. Mind blown
Don’t take much to blow your mind?
Grady said “major chnages”.
The Narrative was “Knicks gave heat more push back than Milwaukee or Boston”.
So we should go into cap hell and extend the entire roster because we didn’t get swept by Miami. Sounds like a brilliant strategy I guess Isiah is in the building after all
Philc1 wrote:Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Now that the Heat have secured home court advantage in the conference Finals, does that change the narrative that NY needs to make major changes?So we should not try to get better. Mind blown
Don’t take much to blow your mind?
Grady said “major chnages”.
The Narrative was “Knicks gave heat more push back than Milwaukee or Boston”.So we should go into cap hell and extend the entire roster because we didn’t get swept by Miami. Sounds like a brilliant strategy I guess Isiah is in the building after all
I want to give you some rope here. Define "salary cap hell."
gradyandrew wrote:Philc1 wrote:Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Now that the Heat have secured home court advantage in the conference Finals, does that change the narrative that NY needs to make major changes?So we should not try to get better. Mind blown
Don’t take much to blow your mind?
Grady said “major chnages”.
The Narrative was “Knicks gave heat more push back than Milwaukee or Boston”.So we should go into cap hell and extend the entire roster because we didn’t get swept by Miami. Sounds like a brilliant strategy I guess Isiah is in the building after all
I want to give you some rope here. Define "salary cap hell."
We are already over the projected 2023/2024 salary cap and now you want to give guaranteed $90 million extensions to Hart and IQ on top of that. Is that salary cap nirvana?
Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Philc1 wrote:Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Now that the Heat have secured home court advantage in the conference Finals, does that change the narrative that NY needs to make major changes?So we should not try to get better. Mind blown
Don’t take much to blow your mind?
Grady said “major chnages”.
The Narrative was “Knicks gave heat more push back than Milwaukee or Boston”.So we should go into cap hell and extend the entire roster because we didn’t get swept by Miami. Sounds like a brilliant strategy I guess Isiah is in the building after all
I want to give you some rope here. Define "salary cap hell."
We are already over the projected 2023/2024 salary cap and now you want to give guaranteed $90 million extensions to Hart and IQ on top of that. Is that salary cap nirvana?
If Knicks decline Rose's option as well as Roby and Jeffries, they can remain under the tax line as long as Hart's contract doesn't exceed 20 million (it won't). Knicks will have slightly more room if Hart takes his option and then the Knicks negotiate an extension. Fournier's contract expires before an IQ or Obi contract takes effect (if Knicks don't pick up his team option). Knicks will exceed the cap but not hit the tax line. That doesn't sound like hell.
Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Philc1 wrote:Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Now that the Heat have secured home court advantage in the conference Finals, does that change the narrative that NY needs to make major changes?So we should not try to get better. Mind blown
Don’t take much to blow your mind?
Grady said “major chnages”.
The Narrative was “Knicks gave heat more push back than Milwaukee or Boston”.So we should go into cap hell and extend the entire roster because we didn’t get swept by Miami. Sounds like a brilliant strategy I guess Isiah is in the building after all
I want to give you some rope here. Define "salary cap hell."
We are already over the projected 2023/2024 salary cap and now you want to give guaranteed $90 million extensions to Hart and IQ on top of that. Is that salary cap nirvana?
IQ contract extension would not kick in until 24/25. Try to digest the things that are discussed or listen to some podcasts with people that know about things.
gradyandrew wrote:Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Philc1 wrote:Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Now that the Heat have secured home court advantage in the conference Finals, does that change the narrative that NY needs to make major changes?So we should not try to get better. Mind blown
Don’t take much to blow your mind?
Grady said “major chnages”.
The Narrative was “Knicks gave heat more push back than Milwaukee or Boston”.So we should go into cap hell and extend the entire roster because we didn’t get swept by Miami. Sounds like a brilliant strategy I guess Isiah is in the building after all
I want to give you some rope here. Define "salary cap hell."
We are already over the projected 2023/2024 salary cap and now you want to give guaranteed $90 million extensions to Hart and IQ on top of that. Is that salary cap nirvana?
If Knicks decline Rose's option as well as Roby and Jeffries, they can remain under the tax line as long as Hart's contract doesn't exceed 20 million (it won't). Knicks will have slightly more room if Hart takes his option and then the Knicks negotiate an extension. Fournier's contract expires before an IQ or Obi contract takes effect (if Knicks don't pick up his team option). Knicks will exceed the cap but not hit the tax line. That doesn't sound like hell.
Thanks for that. Maybe PhilC can take some of this in.
Besides fan base here patient to explain as you did, there is also a thought of respect that Brock Aller, and Scott Perry actually know what they are doing. PHilC does not understand math, thus would not understand cap, or what Aller and Perry do for a living.
gradyandrew wrote:Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Philc1 wrote:Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Now that the Heat have secured home court advantage in the conference Finals, does that change the narrative that NY needs to make major changes?So we should not try to get better. Mind blown
Don’t take much to blow your mind?
Grady said “major chnages”.
The Narrative was “Knicks gave heat more push back than Milwaukee or Boston”.So we should go into cap hell and extend the entire roster because we didn’t get swept by Miami. Sounds like a brilliant strategy I guess Isiah is in the building after all
I want to give you some rope here. Define "salary cap hell."
We are already over the projected 2023/2024 salary cap and now you want to give guaranteed $90 million extensions to Hart and IQ on top of that. Is that salary cap nirvana?
If Knicks decline Rose's option as well as Roby and Jeffries, they can remain under the tax line as long as Hart's contract doesn't exceed 20 million (it won't). Knicks will have slightly more room if Hart takes his option and then the Knicks negotiate an extension. Fournier's contract expires before an IQ or Obi contract takes effect (if Knicks don't pick up his team option). Knicks will exceed the cap but not hit the tax line. That doesn't sound like hell.
Even if the Knicks decline Rose they are still $3-4 million over the projected 2023-2024 cap. There’s a player option for Hart but he will opt out because he knows we are giving him an $80 million extension. You can’t extend IQ, Hart and Obi and still expect to be $30 million under the cap if a superstar decides to come here unless you start trading first round picks wholesale
Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Philc1 wrote:Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Now that the Heat have secured home court advantage in the conference Finals, does that change the narrative that NY needs to make major changes?So we should not try to get better. Mind blown
Don’t take much to blow your mind?
Grady said “major chnages”.
The Narrative was “Knicks gave heat more push back than Milwaukee or Boston”.So we should go into cap hell and extend the entire roster because we didn’t get swept by Miami. Sounds like a brilliant strategy I guess Isiah is in the building after all
I want to give you some rope here. Define "salary cap hell."
We are already over the projected 2023/2024 salary cap and now you want to give guaranteed $90 million extensions to Hart and IQ on top of that. Is that salary cap nirvana?
If Knicks decline Rose's option as well as Roby and Jeffries, they can remain under the tax line as long as Hart's contract doesn't exceed 20 million (it won't). Knicks will have slightly more room if Hart takes his option and then the Knicks negotiate an extension. Fournier's contract expires before an IQ or Obi contract takes effect (if Knicks don't pick up his team option). Knicks will exceed the cap but not hit the tax line. That doesn't sound like hell.
Even if the Knicks decline Rose they are still $3-4 million over the projected 2023-2024 cap. There’s a player option for Hart but he will opt out because he knows we are giving him an $80 million extension
https://www.bluewirepods.com/podcast/kni...
In this series scroll down and look at the 3 parts that are related to the cap.
You think Hart is getting a 20 mil a year for 4 yrs?
But give a listen.
Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Philc1 wrote:Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Now that the Heat have secured home court advantage in the conference Finals, does that change the narrative that NY needs to make major changes?So we should not try to get better. Mind blown
Don’t take much to blow your mind?
Grady said “major chnages”.
The Narrative was “Knicks gave heat more push back than Milwaukee or Boston”.So we should go into cap hell and extend the entire roster because we didn’t get swept by Miami. Sounds like a brilliant strategy I guess Isiah is in the building after all
I want to give you some rope here. Define "salary cap hell."
We are already over the projected 2023/2024 salary cap and now you want to give guaranteed $90 million extensions to Hart and IQ on top of that. Is that salary cap nirvana?
IQ contract extension would not kick in until 24/25. Try to digest the things that are discussed or listen to some podcasts with people that know about things.
So we will be trading out Fournier’s bad contract in 2024 for IQ’s bad contract. Great point
Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Philc1 wrote:Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Now that the Heat have secured home court advantage in the conference Finals, does that change the narrative that NY needs to make major changes?So we should not try to get better. Mind blown
Don’t take much to blow your mind?
Grady said “major chnages”.
The Narrative was “Knicks gave heat more push back than Milwaukee or Boston”.So we should go into cap hell and extend the entire roster because we didn’t get swept by Miami. Sounds like a brilliant strategy I guess Isiah is in the building after all
I want to give you some rope here. Define "salary cap hell."
We are already over the projected 2023/2024 salary cap and now you want to give guaranteed $90 million extensions to Hart and IQ on top of that. Is that salary cap nirvana?
If Knicks decline Rose's option as well as Roby and Jeffries, they can remain under the tax line as long as Hart's contract doesn't exceed 20 million (it won't). Knicks will have slightly more room if Hart takes his option and then the Knicks negotiate an extension. Fournier's contract expires before an IQ or Obi contract takes effect (if Knicks don't pick up his team option). Knicks will exceed the cap but not hit the tax line. That doesn't sound like hell.
Even if the Knicks decline Rose they are still $3-4 million over the projected 2023-2024 cap. There’s a player option for Hart but he will opt out because he knows we are giving him an $80 million extension
https://www.bluewirepods.com/podcast/kni...
In this series scroll down and look at the 3 parts that are related to the cap.
You think Hart is getting a 20 mil a year for 4 yrs?But give a listen.
So you think Hart’s going to settle for a 3 year $30 million deal with a team option we will decline in year 3? That’s cute
Philc1 wrote:Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Philc1 wrote:Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Now that the Heat have secured home court advantage in the conference Finals, does that change the narrative that NY needs to make major changes?So we should not try to get better. Mind blown
Don’t take much to blow your mind?
Grady said “major chnages”.
The Narrative was “Knicks gave heat more push back than Milwaukee or Boston”.So we should go into cap hell and extend the entire roster because we didn’t get swept by Miami. Sounds like a brilliant strategy I guess Isiah is in the building after all
I want to give you some rope here. Define "salary cap hell."
We are already over the projected 2023/2024 salary cap and now you want to give guaranteed $90 million extensions to Hart and IQ on top of that. Is that salary cap nirvana?
IQ contract extension would not kick in until 24/25. Try to digest the things that are discussed or listen to some podcasts with people that know about things.
So we will be trading out Fournier’s bad contract in 2024 for IQ’s bad contract. Great point
You are simply being told IQ’s extension kicks in the year after next.
Philc1 wrote:Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Philc1 wrote:Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Now that the Heat have secured home court advantage in the conference Finals, does that change the narrative that NY needs to make major changes?So we should not try to get better. Mind blown
Don’t take much to blow your mind?
Grady said “major chnages”.
The Narrative was “Knicks gave heat more push back than Milwaukee or Boston”.So we should go into cap hell and extend the entire roster because we didn’t get swept by Miami. Sounds like a brilliant strategy I guess Isiah is in the building after all
I want to give you some rope here. Define "salary cap hell."
We are already over the projected 2023/2024 salary cap and now you want to give guaranteed $90 million extensions to Hart and IQ on top of that. Is that salary cap nirvana?
If Knicks decline Rose's option as well as Roby and Jeffries, they can remain under the tax line as long as Hart's contract doesn't exceed 20 million (it won't). Knicks will have slightly more room if Hart takes his option and then the Knicks negotiate an extension. Fournier's contract expires before an IQ or Obi contract takes effect (if Knicks don't pick up his team option). Knicks will exceed the cap but not hit the tax line. That doesn't sound like hell.
Even if the Knicks decline Rose they are still $3-4 million over the projected 2023-2024 cap. There’s a player option for Hart but he will opt out because he knows we are giving him an $80 million extension
https://www.bluewirepods.com/podcast/kni...
In this series scroll down and look at the 3 parts that are related to the cap.
You think Hart is getting a 20 mil a year for 4 yrs?But give a listen.
So you think Hart’s going to settle for a 3 year $30 million deal with a team option we will decline in year 3? That’s cute
No. Im asking that you believe its double that? If you want to ask me what I think he will be paid then ask me.
I could be wrong. Its just a guess.
If he has a home here and does not want to bounce around has he has, he could give us a bit of a discount.
His wife just had Twins. He is an east coast guy (family), but I can’t speak for him.
Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Philc1 wrote:Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Now that the Heat have secured home court advantage in the conference Finals, does that change the narrative that NY needs to make major changes?So we should not try to get better. Mind blown
Don’t take much to blow your mind?
Grady said “major chnages”.
The Narrative was “Knicks gave heat more push back than Milwaukee or Boston”.So we should go into cap hell and extend the entire roster because we didn’t get swept by Miami. Sounds like a brilliant strategy I guess Isiah is in the building after all
I want to give you some rope here. Define "salary cap hell."
We are already over the projected 2023/2024 salary cap and now you want to give guaranteed $90 million extensions to Hart and IQ on top of that. Is that salary cap nirvana?
If Knicks decline Rose's option as well as Roby and Jeffries, they can remain under the tax line as long as Hart's contract doesn't exceed 20 million (it won't). Knicks will have slightly more room if Hart takes his option and then the Knicks negotiate an extension. Fournier's contract expires before an IQ or Obi contract takes effect (if Knicks don't pick up his team option). Knicks will exceed the cap but not hit the tax line. That doesn't sound like hell.
Even if the Knicks decline Rose they are still $3-4 million over the projected 2023-2024 cap. There’s a player option for Hart but he will opt out because he knows we are giving him an $80 million extension. You can’t extend IQ, Hart and Obi and still expect to be $30 million under the cap if a superstar decides to come here unless you start trading first round picks wholesale
Phil, I don't mean to be rude, but do you understand the difference between the salary cap and the tax line? Teams can exceed the salary cap without paying the tax. Most teams do. You repeat what I said and act like it's different.
gradyandrew wrote:Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Philc1 wrote:Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Now that the Heat have secured home court advantage in the conference Finals, does that change the narrative that NY needs to make major changes?So we should not try to get better. Mind blown
Don’t take much to blow your mind?
Grady said “major chnages”.
The Narrative was “Knicks gave heat more push back than Milwaukee or Boston”.So we should go into cap hell and extend the entire roster because we didn’t get swept by Miami. Sounds like a brilliant strategy I guess Isiah is in the building after all
I want to give you some rope here. Define "salary cap hell."
We are already over the projected 2023/2024 salary cap and now you want to give guaranteed $90 million extensions to Hart and IQ on top of that. Is that salary cap nirvana?
If Knicks decline Rose's option as well as Roby and Jeffries, they can remain under the tax line as long as Hart's contract doesn't exceed 20 million (it won't). Knicks will have slightly more room if Hart takes his option and then the Knicks negotiate an extension. Fournier's contract expires before an IQ or Obi contract takes effect (if Knicks don't pick up his team option). Knicks will exceed the cap but not hit the tax line. That doesn't sound like hell.
Even if the Knicks decline Rose they are still $3-4 million over the projected 2023-2024 cap. There’s a player option for Hart but he will opt out because he knows we are giving him an $80 million extension. You can’t extend IQ, Hart and Obi and still expect to be $30 million under the cap if a superstar decides to come here unless you start trading first round picks wholesale
Phil, I don't mean to be rude, but do you understand the difference between the salary cap and the tax line? Teams can exceed the salary cap without paying the tax. Most teams do. You repeat what I said and act like it's different.
Never mentioned the luxury tax. You did with your condescending hot air strawman stuff. All I’m saying is giving guaranteed $80 million extensions to two good not great bench players is a mistake and bad cap management. Especially when we are now a competitive team that’s becoming a desirable possible location for a superstar
Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Philc1 wrote:Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Now that the Heat have secured home court advantage in the conference Finals, does that change the narrative that NY needs to make major changes?So we should not try to get better. Mind blown
Don’t take much to blow your mind?
Grady said “major chnages”.
The Narrative was “Knicks gave heat more push back than Milwaukee or Boston”.So we should go into cap hell and extend the entire roster because we didn’t get swept by Miami. Sounds like a brilliant strategy I guess Isiah is in the building after all
I want to give you some rope here. Define "salary cap hell."
We are already over the projected 2023/2024 salary cap and now you want to give guaranteed $90 million extensions to Hart and IQ on top of that. Is that salary cap nirvana?
If Knicks decline Rose's option as well as Roby and Jeffries, they can remain under the tax line as long as Hart's contract doesn't exceed 20 million (it won't). Knicks will have slightly more room if Hart takes his option and then the Knicks negotiate an extension. Fournier's contract expires before an IQ or Obi contract takes effect (if Knicks don't pick up his team option). I'm Knicks will exceed the cap but not hit the tax line. That doesn't sound like hell.
Even if the Knicks decline Rose they are still $3-4 million over the projected 2023-2024 cap. There’s a player option for Hart but he will opt out because he knows we are giving him an $80 million extension. You can’t extend IQ, Hart and Obi and still expect to be $30 million under the cap if a superstar decides to come here unless you start trading first round picks wholesale
Phil, I don't mean to be rude, but do you understand the difference between the salary cap and the tax line? Teams can exceed the salary cap without paying the tax. Most teams do. You repeat what I said and act like it's different.Never mentioned the luxury tax. You did with your condescending hot air strawman stuff. All I’m saying is giving guaranteed $80 million extensions to two good not great bench players is a mistake and bad cap management. Especially when we are now a competitive team that’s becoming a desirable possible location for a superstar
It seems like this whole conversation started with you saying "into salary cap hell." It seems like you have considerably dialled back your prognosis to overpaying good but not great players. It seems like paying the luxury tax and dealing with the resulting penalties for a middling team would be "hell." Having the option to send out young vets and draft picks for a star seems like a heavenly position.
Maybe I am condescending. I don't see the math of having Brunson Randle RJ and Mitchell Robinson on multi year contracts and Knicks having the cap space to make a run at a superstar. Also, it begs the question of why a superstar (or even a star) would want to go somewhere as a free agent when recent history shows them going where
they want via trade.
Knicks were really good after getting Josh Hart. With turmoil in Philly and Milwaukee a top regular season record is within the realm of possibility. If you want to make a trade for a superstar, having a guy like IQ locked up on a reasonable contract is exactly the kind of piece you need to have.
Anyway, judging from your last post I think we're mostly in agreement. I'd much rather have IQ and Hart on 60 million for four years than 80, but I'd still rather pay them 80 than low ball them and have them go to Spurs or Magic for 70. Or let IQ hit RFA and decide if we want to match a magic offer for 100 million.
gradyandrew wrote:Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Philc1 wrote:Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Now that the Heat have secured home court advantage in the conference Finals, does that change the narrative that NY needs to make major changes?So we should not try to get better. Mind blown
Don’t take much to blow your mind?
Grady said “major chnages”.
The Narrative was “Knicks gave heat more push back than Milwaukee or Boston”.So we should go into cap hell and extend the entire roster because we didn’t get swept by Miami. Sounds like a brilliant strategy I guess Isiah is in the building after all
I want to give you some rope here. Define "salary cap hell."
We are already over the projected 2023/2024 salary cap and now you want to give guaranteed $90 million extensions to Hart and IQ on top of that. Is that salary cap nirvana?
If Knicks decline Rose's option as well as Roby and Jeffries, they can remain under the tax line as long as Hart's contract doesn't exceed 20 million (it won't). Knicks will have slightly more room if Hart takes his option and then the Knicks negotiate an extension. Fournier's contract expires before an IQ or Obi contract takes effect (if Knicks don't pick up his team option). I'm Knicks will exceed the cap but not hit the tax line. That doesn't sound like hell.
Even if the Knicks decline Rose they are still $3-4 million over the projected 2023-2024 cap. There’s a player option for Hart but he will opt out because he knows we are giving him an $80 million extension. You can’t extend IQ, Hart and Obi and still expect to be $30 million under the cap if a superstar decides to come here unless you start trading first round picks wholesale
Phil, I don't mean to be rude, but do you understand the difference between the salary cap and the tax line? Teams can exceed the salary cap without paying the tax. Most teams do. You repeat what I said and act like it's different.Never mentioned the luxury tax. You did with your condescending hot air strawman stuff. All I’m saying is giving guaranteed $80 million extensions to two good not great bench players is a mistake and bad cap management. Especially when we are now a competitive team that’s becoming a desirable possible location for a superstar
It seems like this whole conversation started with you saying "into salary cap hell." It seems like you have considerably dialled back your prognosis to overpaying good but not great players.Maybe I am condescending. I don't see the math of having Brunson Randle RJ and Mitchell Robinson on multi year contracts and Knicks having the cap space to make a run at a superstar. Also, it begs the question of why a superstar (or even a star) would want to go somewhere as a free agent when recent history shows them going where
they want via trade.Knicks were really good after getting Josh Hart. With turmoil in Philly and Milwaukee a top regular season record is within the realm of possibility. If you want to make a trade for a superstar, having a guy like IQ locked up on a reasonable contract is exactly the kind of piece you need to have.
Anyway, judging from your last post I think we're mostly in agreement. I'd much rather have IQ and Hart on 60 million for four years than 80, but I'd still rather pay them 80 than low ball them and have them go to Spurs or Magic for 70. Or let IQ hit RFA and decide if we want to match a magic offer for 100 million.
Still sticking with your straw man nonsense. I never said anything about the luxury tax. Cap Hell is being over the cap and not able to sign available superstars who want to come here. It can also mean only being a couple mil under the cap because to realistically be able to go after a superstar you need at least $30 mil below the cap or more. We are not good enough to justify being at the cap, just under or over for the next several years