Knicks · Leave the Knicks intact.. (page 2)

GustavBahler wrote:I look at Butler vs. Randle, and I see the difference between the second round, and the Finals.

If Randle isn't as crucial to the team's playoff dreams. Because we found a player who thrives under pressure. Who can be that number one option. In crunch time. In addition to Brunson. That's another story.

I believe RJ can be that guy in spots. But he still needs more time to be as money as Brunson is now. When the chips are down.

If the season is going to hinge again on Randle becoming a clutch player, after 10 years in the league. I believe we're setting ourselves up for a big letdown. We need another clutch performer.

Randle is not Butler. We go that.
RJ got a clutch gene. He is not there.
Fact is I this team is not ready to make the big jump. It might not be for few more years, might not be as currently constructed.
This shit is not easy. Took Toronto a huge boost and luck via Kawahi. Philly never go there and its not lookng good.
Boston been very very good, contending good for how many years now?
Sure we waited 50 years. Thats don't make it any less hard.

GustavBahler wrote:I look at Butler vs. Randle, and I see the difference between the second round, and the Finals.

If Randle isn't as crucial to the team's playoff dreams. Because we found a player who thrives under pressure. Who can be that number one option. In crunch time. In addition to Brunson. That's another story.

I believe RJ can be that guy in spots. But he still needs more time to be as money as Brunson is now. When the chips are down.

If the season is going to hinge again on Randle becoming a clutch player, after 10 years in the league. I believe we're setting ourselves up for a big letdown. We need another clutch performer.

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I look at Butler vs. Randle, and I see the difference between the second round, and the Finals.

If Randle isn't as crucial to the team's playoff dreams. Because we found a player who thrives under pressure. Who can be that number one option. In crunch time. In addition to Brunson. That's another story.

I believe RJ can be that guy in spots. But he still needs more time to be as money as Brunson is now. When the chips are down.

If the season is going to hinge again on Randle becoming a clutch player, after 10 years in the league. I believe we're setting ourselves up for a big letdown. We need another clutch performer.

Knicks need a legit #2. Randle isnt it and he's a LOT closer than RJ. Glad you think RJ can be that guy. He's not shown that however. Could be Grimes but he's a couple years from that which is fine. Maybe RJ does pop. He's kinda been the same guy for 4 years. So long as he doesnt regress his price point is reasonable and at 22 he's a great kid and hard worker

Kid is fucking peter pan........22 for ever!! LOL!

SergioNYK wrote:I'm fine with running it back if there are no reasonable and fair upgrades available but at the very least I'd like to have an elite three point shooter on the bench like Seth Curry.

Problem is “running it back” means getting locked into multiple long term deals with Hart, IQ and having no cap flexibility next several years while still having the 4th or 5th best roster in the East

Oh and we still can’t make 3’s

Philc1 wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:I'm fine with running it back if there are no reasonable and fair upgrades available but at the very least I'd like to have an elite three point shooter on the bench like Seth Curry.

Problem is “running it back” means getting locked into multiple long term deals with Hart, IQ and having no cap flexibility next several years while still having the 4th or 5th best roster in the East

Oh and we still can’t make 3’s

Having good players on good contracts who are developing and getting better and just got second round is somehow a bad thing?

What Knicks PTSD planet are you still on?

It’s the new Knicks man, get with the times.

GustavBahler wrote:I look at Butler vs. Randle, and I see the difference between the second round, and the Finals.

If Randle isn't as crucial to the team's playoff dreams. Because we found a player who thrives under pressure. Who can be that number one option. In crunch time. In addition to Brunson. That's another story.

I believe RJ can be that guy in spots. But he still needs more time to be as money as Brunson is now. When the chips are down.

If the season is going to hinge again on Randle becoming a clutch player, after 10 years in the league. I believe we're setting ourselves up for a big letdown. We need another clutch performer.

I seem to remember Randle hitting a fair number of game winners over the past 3 seasons.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Vmart wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:I'm fine with running it back if there are no reasonable and fair upgrades available but at the very least I'd like to have an elite three point shooter on the bench like Seth Curry.

I’m sure Fournier could have hit some threes for the Knicks.

Another thing Fournier and Curry have in common? They both suck at defense. Thibs probably still wouldn't give time to Curry over IQ. But this is where we could make better use of the G-League. We should be developing our own Max Strus and Uncan Robinson's

Would not touch Duncan Robinson (even in a development analogy LOL). He's 28 and owed $18M+ per over the next several years. His stats in the playoffs have been 50/50 good to bad game ratio. He shot .328 from 3 this season, plays no defense and was benched.

Strus was a very good undrafted FA find by the Heat who played well at Depaul. Heat success formula seems to be rooted in finding diamond in the rough type guys, integrating them into a "team" concept and coaching them up with HOF Spolestra.

foosballnick wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Vmart wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:I'm fine with running it back if there are no reasonable and fair upgrades available but at the very least I'd like to have an elite three point shooter on the bench like Seth Curry.

I’m sure Fournier could have hit some threes for the Knicks.

Another thing Fournier and Curry have in common? They both suck at defense. Thibs probably still wouldn't give time to Curry over IQ. But this is where we could make better use of the G-League. We should be developing our own Max Strus and Uncan Robinson's

Would not touch Duncan Robinson (even in a development analogy LOL). He's 28 and owed $18M+ per over the next several years. His stats in the playoffs have been 50/50 good to bad game ratio. He shot .328 from 3 this season, plays no defense and was benched.

Strus was a very good undrafted FA find by the Heat who played well at Depaul. Heat success formula seems to be rooted in finding diamond in the rough type guys, integrating them into a "team" concept and coaching them up with HOF Spolestra.

Big daddy said “Developing our own Strus and Robinson”. Not signing them.
Duncan had a shit season and has clawed his way back and is kicking ass in this playoff run. He and Strus fit with what they are doing. Its not about individual talent.

For us its about patience and lettng this group come together and if not, not getting wrong pieces in the attemtpt to improve. The beauty of what denver and Miami are about is how it comes together. Boston has the talent, but they play a certain style and have contended with this core since Tatum was a rookie. We fans like to plug and play and think by doing so we can get better. Its one way. Not the only way.
Running it back is one way.

Philc1 wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:I'm fine with running it back if there are no reasonable and fair upgrades available but at the very least I'd like to have an elite three point shooter on the bench like Seth Curry.

Problem is “running it back” means getting locked into multiple long term deals with Hart, IQ and having no cap flexibility next several years while still having the 4th or 5th best roster in the East

Oh and we still can’t make 3’s

It is said over and over if you have players on good contracts you can trade and create all kinds of things. The chess board is not simple. Your responses are.

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:I'm fine with running it back if there are no reasonable and fair upgrades available but at the very least I'd like to have an elite three point shooter on the bench like Seth Curry.

Problem is “running it back” means getting locked into multiple long term deals with Hart, IQ and having no cap flexibility next several years while still having the 4th or 5th best roster in the East

Oh and we still can’t make 3’s

It is said over and over if you have players on good contracts you can trade and create all kinds of things. The chess board is not simple. Your responses are.

The whale contracts we are about to give IQ and Hart won’t be tradeable unless you think giving up multiple first round picks is a good thing

Why would we have to attach a pick or asset to move them?
Lets have a real convo were you explain your point? This based on past mistakes?
Youu not like IQ? Is Hart over hyped?

For IQ - now might be the best time to lock him into an extension that doesn't break the bank. I think you look at how he played in calendar year 2023 and especially from March into April and I think he continues to grow from there. 2 way player who also is a great rebounder at guard and playmaker/occasional PG. He didn't have a good playoff, so maybe you can keep the AAV under 20mm right now - but if you wait and he continues his arc from the late regular season he will get paid more than Brunson on the open market.

VDesai wrote:We should try to time Hart's contract to match Brunson's- I think you want to keep these guys together. Hart for 3 yrs between 50-60mm is probably the best scenario.

For IQ - now might be the best time to lock him into an extension that doesn't break the bank. I think you look at how he played in calendar year 2023 and especially from March into April and I think he continues to grow from there. 2 way player who also is a great rebounder at guard and playmaker/occasional PG. He didn't have a good playoff, so maybe you can keep the AAV under 20mm right now - but if you wait and he continues his arc from the late regular season he will get paid more than Brunson on the open market.

Personally if he is at the 20mil mark I trade him now. If thats his market value then another team will pay it and find value with him already signed up. What is his value? Alone or part of a bigger deal?.
Its not the fan that hypes him up, its his agent to create a market for him. Is he a starting 1 or 2?
he is restricted next year. Maybe the market decides and we do a sign and trade?

Philc1 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:I'm fine with running it back if there are no reasonable and fair upgrades available but at the very least I'd like to have an elite three point shooter on the bench like Seth Curry.

Problem is “running it back” means getting locked into multiple long term deals with Hart, IQ and having no cap flexibility next several years while still having the 4th or 5th best roster in the East

Oh and we still can’t make 3’s

It is said over and over if you have players on good contracts you can trade and create all kinds of things. The chess board is not simple. Your responses are.

The whale contracts we are about to give IQ and Hart won’t be tradeable unless you think giving up multiple first round picks is a good thing

You are complaining about something that hasn’t happened yet? And for which you are not at all informed about?

martin wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:I'm fine with running it back if there are no reasonable and fair upgrades available but at the very least I'd like to have an elite three point shooter on the bench like Seth Curry.

Problem is “running it back” means getting locked into multiple long term deals with Hart, IQ and having no cap flexibility next several years while still having the 4th or 5th best roster in the East

Oh and we still can’t make 3’s

It is said over and over if you have players on good contracts you can trade and create all kinds of things. The chess board is not simple. Your responses are.

The whale contracts we are about to give IQ and Hart won’t be tradeable unless you think giving up multiple first round picks is a good thing

You are complaining about something that hasn’t happened yet? And for which you are not at all informed about?

Somehow resigning your talent youth is bad. I have heard it all from our fanbase.

Nalod wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Vmart wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:I'm fine with running it back if there are no reasonable and fair upgrades available but at the very least I'd like to have an elite three point shooter on the bench like Seth Curry.

I’m sure Fournier could have hit some threes for the Knicks.

Another thing Fournier and Curry have in common? They both suck at defense. Thibs probably still wouldn't give time to Curry over IQ. But this is where we could make better use of the G-League. We should be developing our own Max Strus and Uncan Robinson's

Would not touch Duncan Robinson (even in a development analogy LOL). He's 28 and owed $18M+ per over the next several years. His stats in the playoffs have been 50/50 good to bad game ratio. He shot .328 from 3 this season, plays no defense and was benched.

Strus was a very good undrafted FA find by the Heat who played well at Depaul. Heat success formula seems to be rooted in finding diamond in the rough type guys, integrating them into a "team" concept and coaching them up with HOF Spolestra.

Big daddy said “Developing our own Strus and Robinson”. Not signing them.
Duncan had a shit season and has clawed his way back and is kicking ass in this playoff run. He and Strus fit with what they are doing. Its not about individual talent.

For us its about patience and lettng this group come together and if not, not getting wrong pieces in the attemtpt to improve. The beauty of what denver and Miami are about is how it comes together. Boston has the talent, but they play a certain style and have contended with this core since Tatum was a rookie. We fans like to plug and play and think by doing so we can get better. Its one way. Not the only way.
Running it back is one way.

Yeah - I got that. Point was why would we want to use Duncan Robinson as an example as someone to develop for the Knicks? We pretty much already have him on the roster (Evan Fournier). Key to the Heat is Spolestra and how he orchestrates the roster and team to play together cohesively a certain way. If Duncan, Strus, Martin and Vincent were on the Knicks....no guarantee they would even play any significant minutes for the Knicks under Thibs.

For this current group of Knicks I tend to agree with the philosophy of running it back. The core is pretty young and Thibs has trusted them and given them leeway in terms of minutes and room to grow IMO (perhaps with the exception of Deuce & Sims). Remember that Miami and Denver have also been about "A" level guys either growing to that level or being acquired. Knicks have JB, but need someone else to either rise to an A level or they need to find someone. Time will tell.

foosballnick wrote:

Nalod wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Vmart wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:I'm fine with running it back if there are no reasonable and fair upgrades available but at the very least I'd like to have an elite three point shooter on the bench like Seth Curry.

I’m sure Fournier could have hit some threes for the Knicks.

Another thing Fournier and Curry have in common? They both suck at defense. Thibs probably still wouldn't give time to Curry over IQ. But this is where we could make better use of the G-League. We should be developing our own Max Strus and Uncan Robinson's

Would not touch Duncan Robinson (even in a development analogy LOL). He's 28 and owed $18M+ per over the next several years. His stats in the playoffs have been 50/50 good to bad game ratio. He shot .328 from 3 this season, plays no defense and was benched.

Strus was a very good undrafted FA find by the Heat who played well at Depaul. Heat success formula seems to be rooted in finding diamond in the rough type guys, integrating them into a "team" concept and coaching them up with HOF Spolestra.

Big daddy said “Developing our own Strus and Robinson”. Not signing them.
Duncan had a shit season and has clawed his way back and is kicking ass in this playoff run. He and Strus fit with what they are doing. Its not about individual talent.

For us its about patience and lettng this group come together and if not, not getting wrong pieces in the attemtpt to improve. The beauty of what denver and Miami are about is how it comes together. Boston has the talent, but they play a certain style and have contended with this core since Tatum was a rookie. We fans like to plug and play and think by doing so we can get better. Its one way. Not the only way.
Running it back is one way.

Yeah - I got that. Point was why would we want to use Duncan Robinson as an example as someone to develop for the Knicks? We pretty much already have him on the roster (Evan Fournier). Key to the Heat is Spolestra and how he orchestrates the roster and team to play together cohesively a certain way. If Duncan, Strus, Martin and Vincent were on the Knicks....no guarantee they would even play any significant minutes for the Knicks under Thibs.

For this current group of Knicks I tend to agree with the philosophy of running it back. The core is pretty young and Thibs has trusted them and given them leeway in terms of minutes and room to grow IMO (perhaps with the exception of Deuce & Sims). Remember that Miami and Denver have also been about "A" level guys either growing to that level or being acquired. Knicks have JB, but need someone else to either rise to an A level or they need to find someone. Time will tell.

I call bullshit. What do you think Grimes and IQ and such have been doing? Even Jericho gets minutes when Mitch, Hart are down.

Knicks are doing exactly what Miami has done. Develop their own guys. Randle just went from FA to all NBA. Mitch just went from second round to best offensive rebounder.

foosballnick wrote:

Nalod wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Vmart wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:I'm fine with running it back if there are no reasonable and fair upgrades available but at the very least I'd like to have an elite three point shooter on the bench like Seth Curry.

I’m sure Fournier could have hit some threes for the Knicks.

Another thing Fournier and Curry have in common? They both suck at defense. Thibs probably still wouldn't give time to Curry over IQ. But this is where we could make better use of the G-League. We should be developing our own Max Strus and Uncan Robinson's

Would not touch Duncan Robinson (even in a development analogy LOL). He's 28 and owed $18M+ per over the next several years. His stats in the playoffs have been 50/50 good to bad game ratio. He shot .328 from 3 this season, plays no defense and was benched.

Strus was a very good undrafted FA find by the Heat who played well at Depaul. Heat success formula seems to be rooted in finding diamond in the rough type guys, integrating them into a "team" concept and coaching them up with HOF Spolestra.

Big daddy said “Developing our own Strus and Robinson”. Not signing them.
Duncan had a shit season and has clawed his way back and is kicking ass in this playoff run. He and Strus fit with what they are doing. Its not about individual talent.

For us its about patience and lettng this group come together and if not, not getting wrong pieces in the attemtpt to improve. The beauty of what denver and Miami are about is how it comes together. Boston has the talent, but they play a certain style and have contended with this core since Tatum was a rookie. We fans like to plug and play and think by doing so we can get better. Its one way. Not the only way.
Running it back is one way.

Yeah - I got that. Point was why would we want to use Duncan Robinson as an example as someone to develop for the Knicks? We pretty much already have him on the roster (Evan Fournier). Key to the Heat is Spolestra and how he orchestrates the roster and team to play together cohesively a certain way. If Duncan, Strus, Martin and Vincent were on the Knicks....no guarantee they would even play any significant minutes for the Knicks under Thibs.

For this current group of Knicks I tend to agree with the philosophy of running it back. The core is pretty young and Thibs has trusted them and given them leeway in terms of minutes and room to grow IMO (perhaps with the exception of Deuce & Sims). Remember that Miami and Denver have also been about "A" level guys either growing to that level or being acquired. Knicks have JB, but need someone else to either rise to an A level or they need to find someone. Time will tell.

Its not like Miami wins all the time nor use the same path to get players. Draft Wade, empty salaries, suck, Get Shaq. Michael Beasly was a bust for them. The "Heatles" as starphuch. Then there is reiteration with drafting Bam and herro, then free agent Jimmy who not every team wanted, and then used the "undrafted". One year Duncan ROb looks awful, next he shines in playoff.
POint is the talent fits. We the fan does not always consider the intricacies of fit. Consider Boston, they play heavy iso and have pieces that fit that. They have been quite good now for a number of years. They likely will resign brown or trade him. He won't walk for free. But would he fit everywhere?
Would Thibs use the Miami guys? Not interchangeable. Spolestra has his guys and system, Thibs has his. Im sure there would be some overlap.
For now we have Grimes and IQ that have come a long way. RJ? Does Thibs love him or not? Not always but he plays big minutes. Randle been an allstar and All NBA prior to Thibs? Nope.
EF is not a Thibs guy. Duncan Rob runs his ass off without the ball and does what Spoe wants or his sits. And he has. EF was established prior to being a knick. Year two he did not give coach what he wants and did not mesh with JB.

Now that we have a solid base, any major trades is not needed, unless it’s for a generational talent. Otherwise just some minor tweeks to fill in the gaps.