Knicks · Leave the Knicks intact.. (page 3)
Now that we have a solid base, any major trades is not needed, unless it’s for a generational talent. Otherwise just some minor tweeks to fill in the gaps.
martin wrote:foosballnick wrote:Nalod wrote:foosballnick wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Vmart wrote:SergioNYK wrote:I'm fine with running it back if there are no reasonable and fair upgrades available but at the very least I'd like to have an elite three point shooter on the bench like Seth Curry.I’m sure Fournier could have hit some threes for the Knicks.
Another thing Fournier and Curry have in common? They both suck at defense. Thibs probably still wouldn't give time to Curry over IQ. But this is where we could make better use of the G-League. We should be developing our own Max Strus and Uncan Robinson's
Would not touch Duncan Robinson (even in a development analogy LOL). He's 28 and owed $18M+ per over the next several years. His stats in the playoffs have been 50/50 good to bad game ratio. He shot .328 from 3 this season, plays no defense and was benched.
Strus was a very good undrafted FA find by the Heat who played well at Depaul. Heat success formula seems to be rooted in finding diamond in the rough type guys, integrating them into a "team" concept and coaching them up with HOF Spolestra.
Big daddy said “Developing our own Strus and Robinson”. Not signing them.
Duncan had a shit season and has clawed his way back and is kicking ass in this playoff run. He and Strus fit with what they are doing. Its not about individual talent.For us its about patience and lettng this group come together and if not, not getting wrong pieces in the attemtpt to improve. The beauty of what denver and Miami are about is how it comes together. Boston has the talent, but they play a certain style and have contended with this core since Tatum was a rookie. We fans like to plug and play and think by doing so we can get better. Its one way. Not the only way.
Running it back is one way.Yeah - I got that. Point was why would we want to use Duncan Robinson as an example as someone to develop for the Knicks? We pretty much already have him on the roster (Evan Fournier). Key to the Heat is Spolestra and how he orchestrates the roster and team to play together cohesively a certain way. If Duncan, Strus, Martin and Vincent were on the Knicks....no guarantee they would even play any significant minutes for the Knicks under Thibs.
For this current group of Knicks I tend to agree with the philosophy of running it back. The core is pretty young and Thibs has trusted them and given them leeway in terms of minutes and room to grow IMO (perhaps with the exception of Deuce & Sims). Remember that Miami and Denver have also been about "A" level guys either growing to that level or being acquired. Knicks have JB, but need someone else to either rise to an A level or they need to find someone. Time will tell.
I call bullshit. What do you think Grimes and IQ and such have been doing? Even Jericho gets minutes when Mitch, Hart are down.
Knicks are doing exactly what Miami has done. Develop their own guys. Randle just went from FA to all NBA. Mitch just went from second round to best offensive rebounder.
Not sure what you're calling BS on as I'm still discussing BigDaddy's original point which was that the Knicks need to [i]"develop their own G-League guys such as Duncan Robinson and Strus".
Knicks already have Grimes and IQ who were 1st Round Picks and have been playing significant minutes in the rotation. Why would they need to develop G-League guys who would likely get no playing time? Regardless of that Duncan Robinson = Evan Fournier....no way he would play for Thibs regardless of injury....this year proved that.
foosballnick wrote:martin wrote:foosballnick wrote:Nalod wrote:foosballnick wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Vmart wrote:SergioNYK wrote:I'm fine with running it back if there are no reasonable and fair upgrades available but at the very least I'd like to have an elite three point shooter on the bench like Seth Curry.I’m sure Fournier could have hit some threes for the Knicks.
Another thing Fournier and Curry have in common? They both suck at defense. Thibs probably still wouldn't give time to Curry over IQ. But this is where we could make better use of the G-League. We should be developing our own Max Strus and Uncan Robinson's
Would not touch Duncan Robinson (even in a development analogy LOL). He's 28 and owed $18M+ per over the next several years. His stats in the playoffs have been 50/50 good to bad game ratio. He shot .328 from 3 this season, plays no defense and was benched.
Strus was a very good undrafted FA find by the Heat who played well at Depaul. Heat success formula seems to be rooted in finding diamond in the rough type guys, integrating them into a "team" concept and coaching them up with HOF Spolestra.
Big daddy said “Developing our own Strus and Robinson”. Not signing them.
Duncan had a shit season and has clawed his way back and is kicking ass in this playoff run. He and Strus fit with what they are doing. Its not about individual talent.For us its about patience and lettng this group come together and if not, not getting wrong pieces in the attemtpt to improve. The beauty of what denver and Miami are about is how it comes together. Boston has the talent, but they play a certain style and have contended with this core since Tatum was a rookie. We fans like to plug and play and think by doing so we can get better. Its one way. Not the only way.
Running it back is one way.Yeah - I got that. Point was why would we want to use Duncan Robinson as an example as someone to develop for the Knicks? We pretty much already have him on the roster (Evan Fournier). Key to the Heat is Spolestra and how he orchestrates the roster and team to play together cohesively a certain way. If Duncan, Strus, Martin and Vincent were on the Knicks....no guarantee they would even play any significant minutes for the Knicks under Thibs.
For this current group of Knicks I tend to agree with the philosophy of running it back. The core is pretty young and Thibs has trusted them and given them leeway in terms of minutes and room to grow IMO (perhaps with the exception of Deuce & Sims). Remember that Miami and Denver have also been about "A" level guys either growing to that level or being acquired. Knicks have JB, but need someone else to either rise to an A level or they need to find someone. Time will tell.
I call bullshit. What do you think Grimes and IQ and such have been doing? Even Jericho gets minutes when Mitch, Hart are down.
Knicks are doing exactly what Miami has done. Develop their own guys. Randle just went from FA to all NBA. Mitch just went from second round to best offensive rebounder.
Not sure what you're calling BS on as I'm still discussing BigDaddy's original point which was that the Knicks need to [i]"develop their own G-League guys such as Duncan Robinson and Strus".
Knicks already have Grimes and IQ who were 1st Round Picks and have been playing significant minutes in the rotation. Why would they need to develop G-League guys who would likely get no playing time? Regardless of that Duncan Robinson = Evan Fournier....no way he would play for Thibs regardless of injury....this year proved that.
Sorry, I was conflating 2 different things. I think we have the same point: we are already doing what Miami is doing, those players just weren't UDFAs
foosballnick wrote:martin wrote:foosballnick wrote:Nalod wrote:foosballnick wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Vmart wrote:SergioNYK wrote:I'm fine with running it back if there are no reasonable and fair upgrades available but at the very least I'd like to have an elite three point shooter on the bench like Seth Curry.I’m sure Fournier could have hit some threes for the Knicks.
Another thing Fournier and Curry have in common? They both suck at defense. Thibs probably still wouldn't give time to Curry over IQ. But this is where we could make better use of the G-League. We should be developing our own Max Strus and Uncan Robinson's
Would not touch Duncan Robinson (even in a development analogy LOL). He's 28 and owed $18M+ per over the next several years. His stats in the playoffs have been 50/50 good to bad game ratio. He shot .328 from 3 this season, plays no defense and was benched.
Strus was a very good undrafted FA find by the Heat who played well at Depaul. Heat success formula seems to be rooted in finding diamond in the rough type guys, integrating them into a "team" concept and coaching them up with HOF Spolestra.
Big daddy said “Developing our own Strus and Robinson”. Not signing them.
Duncan had a shit season and has clawed his way back and is kicking ass in this playoff run. He and Strus fit with what they are doing. Its not about individual talent.For us its about patience and lettng this group come together and if not, not getting wrong pieces in the attemtpt to improve. The beauty of what denver and Miami are about is how it comes together. Boston has the talent, but they play a certain style and have contended with this core since Tatum was a rookie. We fans like to plug and play and think by doing so we can get better. Its one way. Not the only way.
Running it back is one way.Yeah - I got that. Point was why would we want to use Duncan Robinson as an example as someone to develop for the Knicks? We pretty much already have him on the roster (Evan Fournier). Key to the Heat is Spolestra and how he orchestrates the roster and team to play together cohesively a certain way. If Duncan, Strus, Martin and Vincent were on the Knicks....no guarantee they would even play any significant minutes for the Knicks under Thibs.
For this current group of Knicks I tend to agree with the philosophy of running it back. The core is pretty young and Thibs has trusted them and given them leeway in terms of minutes and room to grow IMO (perhaps with the exception of Deuce & Sims). Remember that Miami and Denver have also been about "A" level guys either growing to that level or being acquired. Knicks have JB, but need someone else to either rise to an A level or they need to find someone. Time will tell.
I call bullshit. What do you think Grimes and IQ and such have been doing? Even Jericho gets minutes when Mitch, Hart are down.
Knicks are doing exactly what Miami has done. Develop their own guys. Randle just went from FA to all NBA. Mitch just went from second round to best offensive rebounder.
Not sure what you're calling BS on as I'm still discussing BigDaddy's original point which was that the Knicks need to [i]"develop their own G-League guys such as Duncan Robinson and Strus".
Knicks already have Grimes and IQ who were 1st Round Picks and have been playing significant minutes in the rotation. Why would they need to develop G-League guys who would likely get no playing time? Regardless of that Duncan Robinson = Evan Fournier....no way he would play for Thibs regardless of injury....this year proved that.
Grimes and IQ where drafted in the first round. McBride was drafted just outside the first round. That's different from what I'm talking about. I'm talking about guys on the outer layers with potential that can be shaped into useable players. Why do it when Thibs won't play them? That's kinda of the point. You build these guys up knowing they won't become instant contributors. Why do it? Why save money? Why workout when you know the results won't come to you instantly? It's about building up good, sustainable habits that will help the organization in the future. These guys likely won't even make the league. Also, no one said sign or trade for Duncan Robinsons. The point is to develop cheap, rotational talent, which will become more important as we go deeper into the new CBA.
martin wrote:foosballnick wrote:martin wrote:foosballnick wrote:Nalod wrote:foosballnick wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Vmart wrote:SergioNYK wrote:I'm fine with running it back if there are no reasonable and fair upgrades available but at the very least I'd like to have an elite three point shooter on the bench like Seth Curry.I’m sure Fournier could have hit some threes for the Knicks.
Another thing Fournier and Curry have in common? They both suck at defense. Thibs probably still wouldn't give time to Curry over IQ. But this is where we could make better use of the G-League. We should be developing our own Max Strus and Uncan Robinson's
Would not touch Duncan Robinson (even in a development analogy LOL). He's 28 and owed $18M+ per over the next several years. His stats in the playoffs have been 50/50 good to bad game ratio. He shot .328 from 3 this season, plays no defense and was benched.
Strus was a very good undrafted FA find by the Heat who played well at Depaul. Heat success formula seems to be rooted in finding diamond in the rough type guys, integrating them into a "team" concept and coaching them up with HOF Spolestra.
Big daddy said “Developing our own Strus and Robinson”. Not signing them.
Duncan had a shit season and has clawed his way back and is kicking ass in this playoff run. He and Strus fit with what they are doing. Its not about individual talent.For us its about patience and lettng this group come together and if not, not getting wrong pieces in the attemtpt to improve. The beauty of what denver and Miami are about is how it comes together. Boston has the talent, but they play a certain style and have contended with this core since Tatum was a rookie. We fans like to plug and play and think by doing so we can get better. Its one way. Not the only way.
Running it back is one way.Yeah - I got that. Point was why would we want to use Duncan Robinson as an example as someone to develop for the Knicks? We pretty much already have him on the roster (Evan Fournier). Key to the Heat is Spolestra and how he orchestrates the roster and team to play together cohesively a certain way. If Duncan, Strus, Martin and Vincent were on the Knicks....no guarantee they would even play any significant minutes for the Knicks under Thibs.
For this current group of Knicks I tend to agree with the philosophy of running it back. The core is pretty young and Thibs has trusted them and given them leeway in terms of minutes and room to grow IMO (perhaps with the exception of Deuce & Sims). Remember that Miami and Denver have also been about "A" level guys either growing to that level or being acquired. Knicks have JB, but need someone else to either rise to an A level or they need to find someone. Time will tell.
I call bullshit. What do you think Grimes and IQ and such have been doing? Even Jericho gets minutes when Mitch, Hart are down.
Knicks are doing exactly what Miami has done. Develop their own guys. Randle just went from FA to all NBA. Mitch just went from second round to best offensive rebounder.
Not sure what you're calling BS on as I'm still discussing BigDaddy's original point which was that the Knicks need to [i]"develop their own G-League guys such as Duncan Robinson and Strus".
Knicks already have Grimes and IQ who were 1st Round Picks and have been playing significant minutes in the rotation. Why would they need to develop G-League guys who would likely get no playing time? Regardless of that Duncan Robinson = Evan Fournier....no way he would play for Thibs regardless of injury....this year proved that.
Sorry, I was conflating 2 different things. I think we have the same point: we are already doing what Miami is doing, those players just weren't UDFAs
We are not doing what Miami is doing.
IQ had a breakout this year because Brunson was hurt and Thibs had no choice. Grimes saw his minutes reduced, and even taken out of the starting rotation in the playoffs, when Hart arrived. Did Sims even play after the Christmas break??..I seem to recall he was even sent down to the G league at some point.
Giving Thibs credit for Randle “development” is laughable considering he has been playing the same way since his Lakers days..I’ll go as far as to say he was a better DEFENDER back then too.
Swishfm3 wrote:martin wrote:foosballnick wrote:martin wrote:foosballnick wrote:Nalod wrote:foosballnick wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Vmart wrote:SergioNYK wrote:I'm fine with running it back if there are no reasonable and fair upgrades available but at the very least I'd like to have an elite three point shooter on the bench like Seth Curry.I’m sure Fournier could have hit some threes for the Knicks.
Another thing Fournier and Curry have in common? They both suck at defense. Thibs probably still wouldn't give time to Curry over IQ. But this is where we could make better use of the G-League. We should be developing our own Max Strus and Uncan Robinson's
Would not touch Duncan Robinson (even in a development analogy LOL). He's 28 and owed $18M+ per over the next several years. His stats in the playoffs have been 50/50 good to bad game ratio. He shot .328 from 3 this season, plays no defense and was benched.
Strus was a very good undrafted FA find by the Heat who played well at Depaul. Heat success formula seems to be rooted in finding diamond in the rough type guys, integrating them into a "team" concept and coaching them up with HOF Spolestra.
Big daddy said “Developing our own Strus and Robinson”. Not signing them.
Duncan had a shit season and has clawed his way back and is kicking ass in this playoff run. He and Strus fit with what they are doing. Its not about individual talent.For us its about patience and lettng this group come together and if not, not getting wrong pieces in the attemtpt to improve. The beauty of what denver and Miami are about is how it comes together. Boston has the talent, but they play a certain style and have contended with this core since Tatum was a rookie. We fans like to plug and play and think by doing so we can get better. Its one way. Not the only way.
Running it back is one way.Yeah - I got that. Point was why would we want to use Duncan Robinson as an example as someone to develop for the Knicks? We pretty much already have him on the roster (Evan Fournier). Key to the Heat is Spolestra and how he orchestrates the roster and team to play together cohesively a certain way. If Duncan, Strus, Martin and Vincent were on the Knicks....no guarantee they would even play any significant minutes for the Knicks under Thibs.
For this current group of Knicks I tend to agree with the philosophy of running it back. The core is pretty young and Thibs has trusted them and given them leeway in terms of minutes and room to grow IMO (perhaps with the exception of Deuce & Sims). Remember that Miami and Denver have also been about "A" level guys either growing to that level or being acquired. Knicks have JB, but need someone else to either rise to an A level or they need to find someone. Time will tell.
I call bullshit. What do you think Grimes and IQ and such have been doing? Even Jericho gets minutes when Mitch, Hart are down.
Knicks are doing exactly what Miami has done. Develop their own guys. Randle just went from FA to all NBA. Mitch just went from second round to best offensive rebounder.
Not sure what you're calling BS on as I'm still discussing BigDaddy's original point which was that the Knicks need to [i]"develop their own G-League guys such as Duncan Robinson and Strus".
Knicks already have Grimes and IQ who were 1st Round Picks and have been playing significant minutes in the rotation. Why would they need to develop G-League guys who would likely get no playing time? Regardless of that Duncan Robinson = Evan Fournier....no way he would play for Thibs regardless of injury....this year proved that.
Sorry, I was conflating 2 different things. I think we have the same point: we are already doing what Miami is doing, those players just weren't UDFAs
We are not doing what Miami is doing.
IQ had a breakout this year because Brunson was hurt and Thibs had no choice. Grimes saw his minutes reduced, and even taken out of the starting rotation in the playoffs, when Hart arrived. Did Sims even play after the Christmas break??..I seem to recall he was even sent down to the G league at some point.
Giving Thibs credit for Randle “development” is laughable considering he has been playing the same way since his Lakers days..I’ll go as far as to say he was a better DEFENDER back then too.
LOL
Good example of denying reality
martin wrote:Swishfm3 wrote:martin wrote:foosballnick wrote:martin wrote:foosballnick wrote:Nalod wrote:foosballnick wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Vmart wrote:SergioNYK wrote:I'm fine with running it back if there are no reasonable and fair upgrades available but at the very least I'd like to have an elite three point shooter on the bench like Seth Curry.I’m sure Fournier could have hit some threes for the Knicks.
Another thing Fournier and Curry have in common? They both suck at defense. Thibs probably still wouldn't give time to Curry over IQ. But this is where we could make better use of the G-League. We should be developing our own Max Strus and Uncan Robinson's
Would not touch Duncan Robinson (even in a development analogy LOL). He's 28 and owed $18M+ per over the next several years. His stats in the playoffs have been 50/50 good to bad game ratio. He shot .328 from 3 this season, plays no defense and was benched.
Strus was a very good undrafted FA find by the Heat who played well at Depaul. Heat success formula seems to be rooted in finding diamond in the rough type guys, integrating them into a "team" concept and coaching them up with HOF Spolestra.
Big daddy said “Developing our own Strus and Robinson”. Not signing them.
Duncan had a shit season and has clawed his way back and is kicking ass in this playoff run. He and Strus fit with what they are doing. Its not about individual talent.For us its about patience and lettng this group come together and if not, not getting wrong pieces in the attemtpt to improve. The beauty of what denver and Miami are about is how it comes together. Boston has the talent, but they play a certain style and have contended with this core since Tatum was a rookie. We fans like to plug and play and think by doing so we can get better. Its one way. Not the only way.
Running it back is one way.Yeah - I got that. Point was why would we want to use Duncan Robinson as an example as someone to develop for the Knicks? We pretty much already have him on the roster (Evan Fournier). Key to the Heat is Spolestra and how he orchestrates the roster and team to play together cohesively a certain way. If Duncan, Strus, Martin and Vincent were on the Knicks....no guarantee they would even play any significant minutes for the Knicks under Thibs.
For this current group of Knicks I tend to agree with the philosophy of running it back. The core is pretty young and Thibs has trusted them and given them leeway in terms of minutes and room to grow IMO (perhaps with the exception of Deuce & Sims). Remember that Miami and Denver have also been about "A" level guys either growing to that level or being acquired. Knicks have JB, but need someone else to either rise to an A level or they need to find someone. Time will tell.
I call bullshit. What do you think Grimes and IQ and such have been doing? Even Jericho gets minutes when Mitch, Hart are down.
Knicks are doing exactly what Miami has done. Develop their own guys. Randle just went from FA to all NBA. Mitch just went from second round to best offensive rebounder.
Not sure what you're calling BS on as I'm still discussing BigDaddy's original point which was that the Knicks need to [i]"develop their own G-League guys such as Duncan Robinson and Strus".
Knicks already have Grimes and IQ who were 1st Round Picks and have been playing significant minutes in the rotation. Why would they need to develop G-League guys who would likely get no playing time? Regardless of that Duncan Robinson = Evan Fournier....no way he would play for Thibs regardless of injury....this year proved that.
Sorry, I was conflating 2 different things. I think we have the same point: we are already doing what Miami is doing, those players just weren't UDFAs
We are not doing what Miami is doing.
IQ had a breakout this year because Brunson was hurt and Thibs had no choice. Grimes saw his minutes reduced, and even taken out of the starting rotation in the playoffs, when Hart arrived. Did Sims even play after the Christmas break??..I seem to recall he was even sent down to the G league at some point.
Giving Thibs credit for Randle “development” is laughable considering he has been playing the same way since his Lakers days..I’ll go as far as to say he was a better DEFENDER back then too.
LOL
Good example of denying reality
Grimes injured his shoulder.
IQ started 21 games. Played 81.
His runner up 6th man award not due to his starts.
sims is 3rd string Center. Christmas Break? You mean allstar break?
Nalod wrote:has Randle gotten better under Thibs or hasnt he? Are we watching?martin wrote:Swishfm3 wrote:martin wrote:foosballnick wrote:martin wrote:foosballnick wrote:Nalod wrote:foosballnick wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Vmart wrote:SergioNYK wrote:I'm fine with running it back if there are no reasonable and fair upgrades available but at the very least I'd like to have an elite three point shooter on the bench like Seth Curry.I’m sure Fournier could have hit some threes for the Knicks.
Another thing Fournier and Curry have in common? They both suck at defense. Thibs probably still wouldn't give time to Curry over IQ. But this is where we could make better use of the G-League. We should be developing our own Max Strus and Uncan Robinson's
Would not touch Duncan Robinson (even in a development analogy LOL). He's 28 and owed $18M+ per over the next several years. His stats in the playoffs have been 50/50 good to bad game ratio. He shot .328 from 3 this season, plays no defense and was benched.
Strus was a very good undrafted FA find by the Heat who played well at Depaul. Heat success formula seems to be rooted in finding diamond in the rough type guys, integrating them into a "team" concept and coaching them up with HOF Spolestra.
Big daddy said “Developing our own Strus and Robinson”. Not signing them.
Duncan had a shit season and has clawed his way back and is kicking ass in this playoff run. He and Strus fit with what they are doing. Its not about individual talent.For us its about patience and lettng this group come together and if not, not getting wrong pieces in the attemtpt to improve. The beauty of what denver and Miami are about is how it comes together. Boston has the talent, but they play a certain style and have contended with this core since Tatum was a rookie. We fans like to plug and play and think by doing so we can get better. Its one way. Not the only way.
Running it back is one way.Yeah - I got that. Point was why would we want to use Duncan Robinson as an example as someone to develop for the Knicks? We pretty much already have him on the roster (Evan Fournier). Key to the Heat is Spolestra and how he orchestrates the roster and team to play together cohesively a certain way. If Duncan, Strus, Martin and Vincent were on the Knicks....no guarantee they would even play any significant minutes for the Knicks under Thibs.
For this current group of Knicks I tend to agree with the philosophy of running it back. The core is pretty young and Thibs has trusted them and given them leeway in terms of minutes and room to grow IMO (perhaps with the exception of Deuce & Sims). Remember that Miami and Denver have also been about "A" level guys either growing to that level or being acquired. Knicks have JB, but need someone else to either rise to an A level or they need to find someone. Time will tell.
I call bullshit. What do you think Grimes and IQ and such have been doing? Even Jericho gets minutes when Mitch, Hart are down.
Knicks are doing exactly what Miami has done. Develop their own guys. Randle just went from FA to all NBA. Mitch just went from second round to best offensive rebounder.
Not sure what you're calling BS on as I'm still discussing BigDaddy's original point which was that the Knicks need to [i]"develop their own G-League guys such as Duncan Robinson and Strus".
Knicks already have Grimes and IQ who were 1st Round Picks and have been playing significant minutes in the rotation. Why would they need to develop G-League guys who would likely get no playing time? Regardless of that Duncan Robinson = Evan Fournier....no way he would play for Thibs regardless of injury....this year proved that.
Sorry, I was conflating 2 different things. I think we have the same point: we are already doing what Miami is doing, those players just weren't UDFAs
We are not doing what Miami is doing.
IQ had a breakout this year because Brunson was hurt and Thibs had no choice. Grimes saw his minutes reduced, and even taken out of the starting rotation in the playoffs, when Hart arrived. Did Sims even play after the Christmas break??..I seem to recall he was even sent down to the G league at some point.
Giving Thibs credit for Randle “development” is laughable considering he has been playing the same way since his Lakers days..I’ll go as far as to say he was a better DEFENDER back then too.
LOL
Good example of denying reality
Grimes injured his shoulder.
IQ started 21 games. Played 81.
His runner up 6th man award not due to his starts.
sims is 3rd string Center. Christmas Break? You mean allstar break?
Swishfm3 wrote:martin wrote:foosballnick wrote:martin wrote:foosballnick wrote:Nalod wrote:foosballnick wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Vmart wrote:SergioNYK wrote:I'm fine with running it back if there are no reasonable and fair upgrades available but at the very least I'd like to have an elite three point shooter on the bench like Seth Curry.I’m sure Fournier could have hit some threes for the Knicks.
Another thing Fournier and Curry have in common? They both suck at defense. Thibs probably still wouldn't give time to Curry over IQ. But this is where we could make better use of the G-League. We should be developing our own Max Strus and Uncan Robinson's
Would not touch Duncan Robinson (even in a development analogy LOL). He's 28 and owed $18M+ per over the next several years. His stats in the playoffs have been 50/50 good to bad game ratio. He shot .328 from 3 this season, plays no defense and was benched.
Strus was a very good undrafted FA find by the Heat who played well at Depaul. Heat success formula seems to be rooted in finding diamond in the rough type guys, integrating them into a "team" concept and coaching them up with HOF Spolestra.
Big daddy said “Developing our own Strus and Robinson”. Not signing them.
Duncan had a shit season and has clawed his way back and is kicking ass in this playoff run. He and Strus fit with what they are doing. Its not about individual talent.For us its about patience and lettng this group come together and if not, not getting wrong pieces in the attemtpt to improve. The beauty of what denver and Miami are about is how it comes together. Boston has the talent, but they play a certain style and have contended with this core since Tatum was a rookie. We fans like to plug and play and think by doing so we can get better. Its one way. Not the only way.
Running it back is one way.Yeah - I got that. Point was why would we want to use Duncan Robinson as an example as someone to develop for the Knicks? We pretty much already have him on the roster (Evan Fournier). Key to the Heat is Spolestra and how he orchestrates the roster and team to play together cohesively a certain way. If Duncan, Strus, Martin and Vincent were on the Knicks....no guarantee they would even play any significant minutes for the Knicks under Thibs.
For this current group of Knicks I tend to agree with the philosophy of running it back. The core is pretty young and Thibs has trusted them and given them leeway in terms of minutes and room to grow IMO (perhaps with the exception of Deuce & Sims). Remember that Miami and Denver have also been about "A" level guys either growing to that level or being acquired. Knicks have JB, but need someone else to either rise to an A level or they need to find someone. Time will tell.
I call bullshit. What do you think Grimes and IQ and such have been doing? Even Jericho gets minutes when Mitch, Hart are down.
Knicks are doing exactly what Miami has done. Develop their own guys. Randle just went from FA to all NBA. Mitch just went from second round to best offensive rebounder.
Not sure what you're calling BS on as I'm still discussing BigDaddy's original point which was that the Knicks need to [i]"develop their own G-League guys such as Duncan Robinson and Strus".
Knicks already have Grimes and IQ who were 1st Round Picks and have been playing significant minutes in the rotation. Why would they need to develop G-League guys who would likely get no playing time? Regardless of that Duncan Robinson = Evan Fournier....no way he would play for Thibs regardless of injury....this year proved that.
Sorry, I was conflating 2 different things. I think we have the same point: we are already doing what Miami is doing, those players just weren't UDFAs
We are not doing what Miami is doing.
IQ had a breakout this year because Brunson was hurt and Thibs had no choice. Grimes saw his minutes reduced, and even taken out of the starting rotation in the playoffs, when Hart arrived. Did Sims even play after the Christmas break??..I seem to recall he was even sent down to the G league at some point.
Giving Thibs credit for Randle “development” is laughable considering he has been playing the same way since his Lakers days..I’ll go as far as to say he was a better DEFENDER back then too.
IQ and Grimes averaged 21 and 17 minutes per game respectively in 2021-22 season which increased to 27 and 29 with 21 & 66 starts in 2022-23. If you're not seeing that this is developing young guys, not sure what to say.
People here seem to be caught up in recency bias. IQ was ineffective against Cleveland then got hurt. Grimes shot was not fully there in the playoffs (keep in mind he was coming off a shoulder injury). They will be fine longer term. Meanwhile guys on Miami who could not find a shot during the regular season are now dropping things in like everyone on the team is a member of the "splash brothers" during the playoffs. Sometimes shooting comes in waves. You think Martin, Highsmith and Robinson will sustain hitting 3's at over a .400 clip? Last night the Heat were 8-32 from 3.
-They both have a deep roster of roll players who can score.
How they are different?
-Miami roll players are catch and shoot players. Knicks roll players streaky shooters, but better playmakers.
When a good shooting team gets hot against a streaky shooting team in a slump? It’s a wrap! We lost our shooting touch since the cavs series, as a team. IQ and Grimes went cold and stayed cold. This is where a coach that’s flexible with his roster could’ve used d.rose….thibs left him in the ice box too long lol.
Yes Miami and Knicks are similar in some ways. But Jimmy buckets was the difference who turned into a superstar in the bucks series and never came down since. We have JB sure who is great as well.
BUT
When your star player is a 2 WAY player? That’s advantage butler. He impacts on both sides while Brunson, let’s be real, we gotta hide him on defense. So adding a poor man Jimmy buckets. SF/PF who can shoot and play defense would be a major step forward. I like that pelicans trade idea. They have the perfect player. Long can shoot and guard 4 positions. Him and hart together will be tough on D and he adds a huge scoring punch (assuming RJ or Randle would be in that trade).
I’ve said this before. If we want to win now we gotta make an aggressive move. Otherwise bring them back and hope for the best. But eventually from what I’m seeing, this current roster has a cap, and it might be 2nd roundish.
foosballnick wrote:Swishfm3 wrote:martin wrote:foosballnick wrote:martin wrote:foosballnick wrote:Nalod wrote:foosballnick wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Vmart wrote:SergioNYK wrote:I'm fine with running it back if there are no reasonable and fair upgrades available but at the very least I'd like to have an elite three point shooter on the bench like Seth Curry.I’m sure Fournier could have hit some threes for the Knicks.
Another thing Fournier and Curry have in common? They both suck at defense. Thibs probably still wouldn't give time to Curry over IQ. But this is where we could make better use of the G-League. We should be developing our own Max Strus and Uncan Robinson's
Would not touch Duncan Robinson (even in a development analogy LOL). He's 28 and owed $18M+ per over the next several years. His stats in the playoffs have been 50/50 good to bad game ratio. He shot .328 from 3 this season, plays no defense and was benched.
Strus was a very good undrafted FA find by the Heat who played well at Depaul. Heat success formula seems to be rooted in finding diamond in the rough type guys, integrating them into a "team" concept and coaching them up with HOF Spolestra.
Big daddy said “Developing our own Strus and Robinson”. Not signing them.
Duncan had a shit season and has clawed his way back and is kicking ass in this playoff run. He and Strus fit with what they are doing. Its not about individual talent.For us its about patience and lettng this group come together and if not, not getting wrong pieces in the attemtpt to improve. The beauty of what denver and Miami are about is how it comes together. Boston has the talent, but they play a certain style and have contended with this core since Tatum was a rookie. We fans like to plug and play and think by doing so we can get better. Its one way. Not the only way.
Running it back is one way.Yeah - I got that. Point was why would we want to use Duncan Robinson as an example as someone to develop for the Knicks? We pretty much already have him on the roster (Evan Fournier). Key to the Heat is Spolestra and how he orchestrates the roster and team to play together cohesively a certain way. If Duncan, Strus, Martin and Vincent were on the Knicks....no guarantee they would even play any significant minutes for the Knicks under Thibs.
For this current group of Knicks I tend to agree with the philosophy of running it back. The core is pretty young and Thibs has trusted them and given them leeway in terms of minutes and room to grow IMO (perhaps with the exception of Deuce & Sims). Remember that Miami and Denver have also been about "A" level guys either growing to that level or being acquired. Knicks have JB, but need someone else to either rise to an A level or they need to find someone. Time will tell.
I call bullshit. What do you think Grimes and IQ and such have been doing? Even Jericho gets minutes when Mitch, Hart are down.
Knicks are doing exactly what Miami has done. Develop their own guys. Randle just went from FA to all NBA. Mitch just went from second round to best offensive rebounder.
Not sure what you're calling BS on as I'm still discussing BigDaddy's original point which was that the Knicks need to [i]"develop their own G-League guys such as Duncan Robinson and Strus".
Knicks already have Grimes and IQ who were 1st Round Picks and have been playing significant minutes in the rotation. Why would they need to develop G-League guys who would likely get no playing time? Regardless of that Duncan Robinson = Evan Fournier....no way he would play for Thibs regardless of injury....this year proved that.
Sorry, I was conflating 2 different things. I think we have the same point: we are already doing what Miami is doing, those players just weren't UDFAs
We are not doing what Miami is doing.
IQ had a breakout this year because Brunson was hurt and Thibs had no choice. Grimes saw his minutes reduced, and even taken out of the starting rotation in the playoffs, when Hart arrived. Did Sims even play after the Christmas break??..I seem to recall he was even sent down to the G league at some point.
Giving Thibs credit for Randle “development” is laughable considering he has been playing the same way since his Lakers days..I’ll go as far as to say he was a better DEFENDER back then too.
IQ and Grimes averaged 21 and 17 minutes per game respectively in 2021-22 season which increased to 27 and 29 with 21 & 66 starts in 2022-23. If you're not seeing that this is developing young guys, not sure what to say.
People here seem to be caught up in recency bias. IQ was ineffective against Cleveland then got hurt. Grimes shot was not fully there in the playoffs (keep in mind he was coming off a shoulder injury). They will be fine longer term. Meanwhile guys on Miami who could not find a shot during the regular season are now dropping things in like everyone on the team is a member of the "splash brothers" during the playoffs. Sometimes shooting comes in waves. You think Martin, Highsmith and Robinson will sustain hitting 3's at over a .400 clip? Last night the Heat were 8-32 from 3.
For the series, Miami only shot marginally better than the Knicks did from 3. The difference was volume of shots (Miami took 515, NY 477), Turnovers (Miami had 58, NY 82) and free throw percentage (Miami shot 83% on 143 attempts, NY 74% on 168 attempts).
https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...
This series hinged on Miami executing better. It was a close series that was literally won on the fringes, because alot of the stats are very similiar and if you read them at face value, you would think NY could have won the series.
fishmike wrote:martin wrote:Phil's like VMart... offers nothing "but I know this sucks"Philc1 wrote:Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:SergioNYK wrote:I'm fine with running it back if there are no reasonable and fair upgrades available but at the very least I'd like to have an elite three point shooter on the bench like Seth Curry.Problem is “running it back” means getting locked into multiple long term deals with Hart, IQ and having no cap flexibility next several years while still having the 4th or 5th best roster in the East
Oh and we still can’t make 3’s
It is said over and over if you have players on good contracts you can trade and create all kinds of things. The chess board is not simple. Your responses are.
The whale contracts we are about to give IQ and Hart won’t be tradeable unless you think giving up multiple first round picks is a good thing
You are complaining about something that hasn’t happened yet? And for which you are not at all informed about?
Somehow resigning your talent youth is bad. I have heard it all from our fanbase.
He may be exaggerating and it may not have happened yet, but this is a concern.
Does RJ on his current contract have the same value in the league as before? Is he worth his contract? I have hope he takes the next step, but would anyone be surprised by another highly inefficient shooting year next season?
I like the work the FO has done.
I have faith in them.
But, we might end up somewhat locked to mediocre/good basketball team- kinda like we had with Riley’s Knick squads- good enough to win high 40s/low 50s during the regular season, but unable to find that legit 2nd star (assuming you are calling Brunson a 1 or 1a).
It is a fair concern, I think.
fishmike wrote:Nalod wrote:has Randle gotten better under Thibs or hasnt he? Are we watching?martin wrote:Swishfm3 wrote:martin wrote:foosballnick wrote:martin wrote:foosballnick wrote:Nalod wrote:foosballnick wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Vmart wrote:SergioNYK wrote:I'm fine with running it back if there are no reasonable and fair upgrades available but at the very least I'd like to have an elite three point shooter on the bench like Seth Curry.I’m sure Fournier could have hit some threes for the Knicks.
Another thing Fournier and Curry have in common? They both suck at defense. Thibs probably still wouldn't give time to Curry over IQ. But this is where we could make better use of the G-League. We should be developing our own Max Strus and Uncan Robinson's
Would not touch Duncan Robinson (even in a development analogy LOL). He's 28 and owed $18M+ per over the next several years. His stats in the playoffs have been 50/50 good to bad game ratio. He shot .328 from 3 this season, plays no defense and was benched.
Strus was a very good undrafted FA find by the Heat who played well at Depaul. Heat success formula seems to be rooted in finding diamond in the rough type guys, integrating them into a "team" concept and coaching them up with HOF Spolestra.
Big daddy said “Developing our own Strus and Robinson”. Not signing them.
Duncan had a shit season and has clawed his way back and is kicking ass in this playoff run. He and Strus fit with what they are doing. Its not about individual talent.For us its about patience and lettng this group come together and if not, not getting wrong pieces in the attemtpt to improve. The beauty of what denver and Miami are about is how it comes together. Boston has the talent, but they play a certain style and have contended with this core since Tatum was a rookie. We fans like to plug and play and think by doing so we can get better. Its one way. Not the only way.
Running it back is one way.Yeah - I got that. Point was why would we want to use Duncan Robinson as an example as someone to develop for the Knicks? We pretty much already have him on the roster (Evan Fournier). Key to the Heat is Spolestra and how he orchestrates the roster and team to play together cohesively a certain way. If Duncan, Strus, Martin and Vincent were on the Knicks....no guarantee they would even play any significant minutes for the Knicks under Thibs.
For this current group of Knicks I tend to agree with the philosophy of running it back. The core is pretty young and Thibs has trusted them and given them leeway in terms of minutes and room to grow IMO (perhaps with the exception of Deuce & Sims). Remember that Miami and Denver have also been about "A" level guys either growing to that level or being acquired. Knicks have JB, but need someone else to either rise to an A level or they need to find someone. Time will tell.
I call bullshit. What do you think Grimes and IQ and such have been doing? Even Jericho gets minutes when Mitch, Hart are down.
Knicks are doing exactly what Miami has done. Develop their own guys. Randle just went from FA to all NBA. Mitch just went from second round to best offensive rebounder.
Not sure what you're calling BS on as I'm still discussing BigDaddy's original point which was that the Knicks need to [i]"develop their own G-League guys such as Duncan Robinson and Strus".
Knicks already have Grimes and IQ who were 1st Round Picks and have been playing significant minutes in the rotation. Why would they need to develop G-League guys who would likely get no playing time? Regardless of that Duncan Robinson = Evan Fournier....no way he would play for Thibs regardless of injury....this year proved that.
Sorry, I was conflating 2 different things. I think we have the same point: we are already doing what Miami is doing, those players just weren't UDFAs
We are not doing what Miami is doing.
IQ had a breakout this year because Brunson was hurt and Thibs had no choice. Grimes saw his minutes reduced, and even taken out of the starting rotation in the playoffs, when Hart arrived. Did Sims even play after the Christmas break??..I seem to recall he was even sent down to the G league at some point.
Giving Thibs credit for Randle “development” is laughable considering he has been playing the same way since his Lakers days..I’ll go as far as to say he was a better DEFENDER back then too.
LOL
Good example of denying reality
Grimes injured his shoulder.
IQ started 21 games. Played 81.
His runner up 6th man award not due to his starts.
sims is 3rd string Center. Christmas Break? You mean allstar break?
Looking at his career stats, the one thing that stands out is Thibs gave him more mins than any of his other coaches. More mins means more attempts and more points. But he's always been a 20 and 10 guy and showed that when he went to the Pelicans.
What exactly did Randle improve? His second year with the knicks he shot very well from 3. This past season, he shot the same percentage from 3 that he did in NO. He averaged 21 in NO and 9 rebounds. With the knicks he's averaged around 20 and 10.
I will say one thing. As much as I talk about his bad body language, it has improved along with his emotions. But now we are looking at a team with up and down full court type players and Randle is still a half court, ISO heavy ball stopping forward like he's always been. I don't trust his passing as well. Sometimes they look great and other times it's deflating to see a bullet pass, then Randle's in their face saying, why didn't you catch that?
He has more room to improve and if he's on board with this improvement strategy, then he stays. But this the part knick fans are not privy to.
fishmike wrote:Nalod wrote:has Randle gotten better under Thibs or hasnt he? Are we watching?martin wrote:Swishfm3 wrote:martin wrote:foosballnick wrote:martin wrote:foosballnick wrote:Nalod wrote:foosballnick wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Vmart wrote:SergioNYK wrote:I'm fine with running it back if there are no reasonable and fair upgrades available but at the very least I'd like to have an elite three point shooter on the bench like Seth Curry.I’m sure Fournier could have hit some threes for the Knicks.
Another thing Fournier and Curry have in common? They both suck at defense. Thibs probably still wouldn't give time to Curry over IQ. But this is where we could make better use of the G-League. We should be developing our own Max Strus and Uncan Robinson's
Would not touch Duncan Robinson (even in a development analogy LOL). He's 28 and owed $18M+ per over the next several years. His stats in the playoffs have been 50/50 good to bad game ratio. He shot .328 from 3 this season, plays no defense and was benched.
Strus was a very good undrafted FA find by the Heat who played well at Depaul. Heat success formula seems to be rooted in finding diamond in the rough type guys, integrating them into a "team" concept and coaching them up with HOF Spolestra.
Big daddy said “Developing our own Strus and Robinson”. Not signing them.
Duncan had a shit season and has clawed his way back and is kicking ass in this playoff run. He and Strus fit with what they are doing. Its not about individual talent.For us its about patience and lettng this group come together and if not, not getting wrong pieces in the attemtpt to improve. The beauty of what denver and Miami are about is how it comes together. Boston has the talent, but they play a certain style and have contended with this core since Tatum was a rookie. We fans like to plug and play and think by doing so we can get better. Its one way. Not the only way.
Running it back is one way.Yeah - I got that. Point was why would we want to use Duncan Robinson as an example as someone to develop for the Knicks? We pretty much already have him on the roster (Evan Fournier). Key to the Heat is Spolestra and how he orchestrates the roster and team to play together cohesively a certain way. If Duncan, Strus, Martin and Vincent were on the Knicks....no guarantee they would even play any significant minutes for the Knicks under Thibs.
For this current group of Knicks I tend to agree with the philosophy of running it back. The core is pretty young and Thibs has trusted them and given them leeway in terms of minutes and room to grow IMO (perhaps with the exception of Deuce & Sims). Remember that Miami and Denver have also been about "A" level guys either growing to that level or being acquired. Knicks have JB, but need someone else to either rise to an A level or they need to find someone. Time will tell.
I call bullshit. What do you think Grimes and IQ and such have been doing? Even Jericho gets minutes when Mitch, Hart are down.
Knicks are doing exactly what Miami has done. Develop their own guys. Randle just went from FA to all NBA. Mitch just went from second round to best offensive rebounder.
Not sure what you're calling BS on as I'm still discussing BigDaddy's original point which was that the Knicks need to [i]"develop their own G-League guys such as Duncan Robinson and Strus".
Knicks already have Grimes and IQ who were 1st Round Picks and have been playing significant minutes in the rotation. Why would they need to develop G-League guys who would likely get no playing time? Regardless of that Duncan Robinson = Evan Fournier....no way he would play for Thibs regardless of injury....this year proved that.
Sorry, I was conflating 2 different things. I think we have the same point: we are already doing what Miami is doing, those players just weren't UDFAs
We are not doing what Miami is doing.
IQ had a breakout this year because Brunson was hurt and Thibs had no choice. Grimes saw his minutes reduced, and even taken out of the starting rotation in the playoffs, when Hart arrived. Did Sims even play after the Christmas break??..I seem to recall he was even sent down to the G league at some point.
Giving Thibs credit for Randle “development” is laughable considering he has been playing the same way since his Lakers days..I’ll go as far as to say he was a better DEFENDER back then too.
LOL
Good example of denying reality
Grimes injured his shoulder.
IQ started 21 games. Played 81.
His runner up 6th man award not due to his starts.
sims is 3rd string Center. Christmas Break? You mean allstar break?
He has gotten better offensively. He regresses when he tries to do too much, but its hard to deny this was a better year for him offensively. My litmus test is how he handled other PFs in the league. Giannis wanted nothing to do with Randle, for instance.
Since he arrived in NY, the spinover has come and gone. The 18 foot fadeaway is reserved for triple coverage with 1 second on the shot clock (and he is surprisingly good at it then). The attitude comes and goes but he is usually on the better side of it. He is starting to play with the toughness that Dray Green exhibits, but also then gets criticized for dumb fouls. Long story short, he is improving.
I understand we need upgrades to get to that ECF and Finals level but I think that only happens if/when we acquire that top level star or severely upgrade Randle or RJ and possibly Rob. Not sure we have enough talent or spacing with those 3 together to get to that next level.
joec32033 wrote:foosballnick wrote:Swishfm3 wrote:martin wrote:foosballnick wrote:martin wrote:foosballnick wrote:Nalod wrote:foosballnick wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Vmart wrote:SergioNYK wrote:I'm fine with running it back if there are no reasonable and fair upgrades available but at the very least I'd like to have an elite three point shooter on the bench like Seth Curry.I’m sure Fournier could have hit some threes for the Knicks.
Another thing Fournier and Curry have in common? They both suck at defense. Thibs probably still wouldn't give time to Curry over IQ. But this is where we could make better use of the G-League. We should be developing our own Max Strus and Uncan Robinson's
Would not touch Duncan Robinson (even in a development analogy LOL). He's 28 and owed $18M+ per over the next several years. His stats in the playoffs have been 50/50 good to bad game ratio. He shot .328 from 3 this season, plays no defense and was benched.
Strus was a very good undrafted FA find by the Heat who played well at Depaul. Heat success formula seems to be rooted in finding diamond in the rough type guys, integrating them into a "team" concept and coaching them up with HOF Spolestra.
Big daddy said “Developing our own Strus and Robinson”. Not signing them.
Duncan had a shit season and has clawed his way back and is kicking ass in this playoff run. He and Strus fit with what they are doing. Its not about individual talent.For us its about patience and lettng this group come together and if not, not getting wrong pieces in the attemtpt to improve. The beauty of what denver and Miami are about is how it comes together. Boston has the talent, but they play a certain style and have contended with this core since Tatum was a rookie. We fans like to plug and play and think by doing so we can get better. Its one way. Not the only way.
Running it back is one way.Yeah - I got that. Point was why would we want to use Duncan Robinson as an example as someone to develop for the Knicks? We pretty much already have him on the roster (Evan Fournier). Key to the Heat is Spolestra and how he orchestrates the roster and team to play together cohesively a certain way. If Duncan, Strus, Martin and Vincent were on the Knicks....no guarantee they would even play any significant minutes for the Knicks under Thibs.
For this current group of Knicks I tend to agree with the philosophy of running it back. The core is pretty young and Thibs has trusted them and given them leeway in terms of minutes and room to grow IMO (perhaps with the exception of Deuce & Sims). Remember that Miami and Denver have also been about "A" level guys either growing to that level or being acquired. Knicks have JB, but need someone else to either rise to an A level or they need to find someone. Time will tell.
I call bullshit. What do you think Grimes and IQ and such have been doing? Even Jericho gets minutes when Mitch, Hart are down.
Knicks are doing exactly what Miami has done. Develop their own guys. Randle just went from FA to all NBA. Mitch just went from second round to best offensive rebounder.
Not sure what you're calling BS on as I'm still discussing BigDaddy's original point which was that the Knicks need to [i]"develop their own G-League guys such as Duncan Robinson and Strus".
Knicks already have Grimes and IQ who were 1st Round Picks and have been playing significant minutes in the rotation. Why would they need to develop G-League guys who would likely get no playing time? Regardless of that Duncan Robinson = Evan Fournier....no way he would play for Thibs regardless of injury....this year proved that.
Sorry, I was conflating 2 different things. I think we have the same point: we are already doing what Miami is doing, those players just weren't UDFAs
We are not doing what Miami is doing.
IQ had a breakout this year because Brunson was hurt and Thibs had no choice. Grimes saw his minutes reduced, and even taken out of the starting rotation in the playoffs, when Hart arrived. Did Sims even play after the Christmas break??..I seem to recall he was even sent down to the G league at some point.
Giving Thibs credit for Randle “development” is laughable considering he has been playing the same way since his Lakers days..I’ll go as far as to say he was a better DEFENDER back then too.
IQ and Grimes averaged 21 and 17 minutes per game respectively in 2021-22 season which increased to 27 and 29 with 21 & 66 starts in 2022-23. If you're not seeing that this is developing young guys, not sure what to say.
People here seem to be caught up in recency bias. IQ was ineffective against Cleveland then got hurt. Grimes shot was not fully there in the playoffs (keep in mind he was coming off a shoulder injury). They will be fine longer term. Meanwhile guys on Miami who could not find a shot during the regular season are now dropping things in like everyone on the team is a member of the "splash brothers" during the playoffs. Sometimes shooting comes in waves. You think Martin, Highsmith and Robinson will sustain hitting 3's at over a .400 clip? Last night the Heat were 8-32 from 3.
For the series, Miami only shot marginally better than the Knicks did from 3. The difference was volume of shots (Miami took 515, NY 477), Turnovers (Miami had 58, NY 82) and free throw percentage (Miami shot 83% on 143 attempts, NY 74% on 168 attempts).
https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...This series hinged on Miami executing better. It was a close series that was literally won on the fringes, because alot of the stats are very similiar and if you read them at face value, you would think NY could have won the series.
Good read, thanks.
joec32033 wrote:foosballnick wrote:Swishfm3 wrote:martin wrote:foosballnick wrote:martin wrote:foosballnick wrote:Nalod wrote:foosballnick wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Vmart wrote:SergioNYK wrote:I'm fine with running it back if there are no reasonable and fair upgrades available but at the very least I'd like to have an elite three point shooter on the bench like Seth Curry.I’m sure Fournier could have hit some threes for the Knicks.
Another thing Fournier and Curry have in common? They both suck at defense. Thibs probably still wouldn't give time to Curry over IQ. But this is where we could make better use of the G-League. We should be developing our own Max Strus and Uncan Robinson's
Would not touch Duncan Robinson (even in a development analogy LOL). He's 28 and owed $18M+ per over the next several years. His stats in the playoffs have been 50/50 good to bad game ratio. He shot .328 from 3 this season, plays no defense and was benched.
Strus was a very good undrafted FA find by the Heat who played well at Depaul. Heat success formula seems to be rooted in finding diamond in the rough type guys, integrating them into a "team" concept and coaching them up with HOF Spolestra.
Big daddy said “Developing our own Strus and Robinson”. Not signing them.
Duncan had a shit season and has clawed his way back and is kicking ass in this playoff run. He and Strus fit with what they are doing. Its not about individual talent.For us its about patience and lettng this group come together and if not, not getting wrong pieces in the attemtpt to improve. The beauty of what denver and Miami are about is how it comes together. Boston has the talent, but they play a certain style and have contended with this core since Tatum was a rookie. We fans like to plug and play and think by doing so we can get better. Its one way. Not the only way.
Running it back is one way.Yeah - I got that. Point was why would we want to use Duncan Robinson as an example as someone to develop for the Knicks? We pretty much already have him on the roster (Evan Fournier). Key to the Heat is Spolestra and how he orchestrates the roster and team to play together cohesively a certain way. If Duncan, Strus, Martin and Vincent were on the Knicks....no guarantee they would even play any significant minutes for the Knicks under Thibs.
For this current group of Knicks I tend to agree with the philosophy of running it back. The core is pretty young and Thibs has trusted them and given them leeway in terms of minutes and room to grow IMO (perhaps with the exception of Deuce & Sims). Remember that Miami and Denver have also been about "A" level guys either growing to that level or being acquired. Knicks have JB, but need someone else to either rise to an A level or they need to find someone. Time will tell.
I call bullshit. What do you think Grimes and IQ and such have been doing? Even Jericho gets minutes when Mitch, Hart are down.
Knicks are doing exactly what Miami has done. Develop their own guys. Randle just went from FA to all NBA. Mitch just went from second round to best offensive rebounder.
Not sure what you're calling BS on as I'm still discussing BigDaddy's original point which was that the Knicks need to [i]"develop their own G-League guys such as Duncan Robinson and Strus".
Knicks already have Grimes and IQ who were 1st Round Picks and have been playing significant minutes in the rotation. Why would they need to develop G-League guys who would likely get no playing time? Regardless of that Duncan Robinson = Evan Fournier....no way he would play for Thibs regardless of injury....this year proved that.
Sorry, I was conflating 2 different things. I think we have the same point: we are already doing what Miami is doing, those players just weren't UDFAs
We are not doing what Miami is doing.
IQ had a breakout this year because Brunson was hurt and Thibs had no choice. Grimes saw his minutes reduced, and even taken out of the starting rotation in the playoffs, when Hart arrived. Did Sims even play after the Christmas break??..I seem to recall he was even sent down to the G league at some point.
Giving Thibs credit for Randle “development” is laughable considering he has been playing the same way since his Lakers days..I’ll go as far as to say he was a better DEFENDER back then too.
IQ and Grimes averaged 21 and 17 minutes per game respectively in 2021-22 season which increased to 27 and 29 with 21 & 66 starts in 2022-23. If you're not seeing that this is developing young guys, not sure what to say.
People here seem to be caught up in recency bias. IQ was ineffective against Cleveland then got hurt. Grimes shot was not fully there in the playoffs (keep in mind he was coming off a shoulder injury). They will be fine longer term. Meanwhile guys on Miami who could not find a shot during the regular season are now dropping things in like everyone on the team is a member of the "splash brothers" during the playoffs. Sometimes shooting comes in waves. You think Martin, Highsmith and Robinson will sustain hitting 3's at over a .400 clip? Last night the Heat were 8-32 from 3.
For the series, Miami only shot marginally better than the Knicks did from 3. The difference was volume of shots (Miami took 515, NY 477), Turnovers (Miami had 58, NY 82) and free throw percentage (Miami shot 83% on 143 attempts, NY 74% on 168 attempts).
https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...This series hinged on Miami executing better. It was a close series that was literally won on the fringes, because alot of the stats are very similiar and if you read them at face value, you would think NY could have won the series.
Angry me thinks that the timing of the fouls was a large component of the outcomes of those games. That turnover differential is obviously the largest component, and you wouldn't think it just looking at the number of fouls for each team, but it seemed like the fouls called on the Knicks resulted in turnovers and shots by their good free throw shooters and the fouls on the Heat were inconsequential (for the most part) or hacks on our bad shooters. Good teams don't give the refs the opportunity to change the outcome, but it seemed like there would be a foul called when the Knicks started to a make a run, stunting their momentum. I can't say that Miami didn't earn that series, we sure as hell didn't shoot well enough to win, but I thought the reffing was less even handed than it appears on paper.
i was saying during the series the same thing that Miami wasn't shooting that much better just more. Boston has the same playbook. Just as an example hitting 40% from 3 is the same as 60% from 2. SO there is an advantage to taking 3s if you can hit them at a decent enough clip compared to your 2 pt %.
the other angle is get more possessions. WIn on the boards, keep turnovers down.
I didn't check the stats for the year but my suspicion is we were better at the latter than the former. During the Miami series, they were very handsy and got a lot of steals in conjunction with our fumbling.
Still feel we need shooting. Paint less crowded should yield higher % shooting plus -- one would think -- fewer steals from help defender, and maybe even better offensive rebounding. I am hoping RJ's playoff tweak (shooting a bit more offset) continues into next season, and am hoping Grimes shoots more, but would we be very happy to add a bona fide shooter
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KnickDanger wrote:I would say stay the course over staying “intact.” Just glad the fire/dump/tear it down crowd is in the minority now.
The Super Max has made it much more difficult to create Super Teams. The need to tear everything down to have any shot at winning is over. The league is wide open now. Much more enjoyable.