I don't think he did enough here to get his number retired. Houston is #4 on the all time points list, not retired and I don't think he deserves it either. I am cool with Melo but he didn't earn a spot in the rafters.
EwingsGlass wrote:I don't think he did enough here to get his number retired. Houston is #4 on the all time points list, not retired and I don't think he deserves it either. I am cool with Melo but he didn't earn a spot in the rafters.
Im in this camp. Same with Bernard King. He was only here 206 games. His best before blowing out the knee. Just not enough time/games.
He is HOF for sure, and his number I gather retired in Syracuse as it should.
no, he didn't win a chip, and 2nd round of playoffs once. not enough
EwingsGlass wrote:I don't think he did enough here to get his number retired. Houston is #4 on the all time points list, not retired and I don't think he deserves it either. I am cool with Melo but he didn't earn a spot in the rafters.
this!
Plus his FA rubbed me wrong, followed up by his relatively recent statements to the effect he really wanted to go to Bulls. Plus he threw more shade later
I'd prefer A.Houston before him
He doesn't belong on that list. Very good player, but not at that level.
Chandler wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:I don't think he did enough here to get his number retired. Houston is #4 on the all time points list, not retired and I don't think he deserves it either. I am cool with Melo but he didn't earn a spot in the rafters.
this!Plus his FA rubbed me wrong, followed up by his relatively recent statements to the effect he really wanted to go to Bulls. Plus he threw more shade later
I'd prefer A.Houston before him
Ahem
Allan Houston?
Allan Houston of the Allan Houaton Rule, Allan Houston?
Why are we talking about hoisting the number of the guy-the -eague-made-a-special-rule-just-so-the-Knicks-could-cut-his-contract, Allan Houston?
Panos wrote:Chandler wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:I don't think he did enough here to get his number retired. Houston is #4 on the all time points list, not retired and I don't think he deserves it either. I am cool with Melo but he didn't earn a spot in the rafters.
this!Plus his FA rubbed me wrong, followed up by his relatively recent statements to the effect he really wanted to go to Bulls. Plus he threw more shade later
I'd prefer A.Houston before him
Ahem
Allan Houston?
Allan Houston of the Allan Houaton Rule, Allan Houston?
Why are we talking about hoisting the number of the guy-the -eague-made-a-special-rule-just-so-the-Knicks-could-cut-his-contract, Allan Houston?
Do you remember exactly why they made that rule? Better yet, do you remember who the Knicks used their "Allan Houston" clause on?
joec32033 wrote:Panos wrote:Chandler wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:I don't think he did enough here to get his number retired. Houston is #4 on the all time points list, not retired and I don't think he deserves it either. I am cool with Melo but he didn't earn a spot in the rafters.
this!Plus his FA rubbed me wrong, followed up by his relatively recent statements to the effect he really wanted to go to Bulls. Plus he threw more shade later
I'd prefer A.Houston before him
Ahem
Allan Houston?
Allan Houston of the Allan Houaton Rule, Allan Houston?
Why are we talking about hoisting the number of the guy-the -eague-made-a-special-rule-just-so-the-Knicks-could-cut-his-contract, Allan Houston?
Do you remember exactly why they made that rule? Better yet, do you remember who the Knicks used their "Allan Houston" clause on?
I believe they used it on Chauncey Billups to sign Tyson Chandler.
H20 is 4th on knicks all time scoring list. Played 60 playoff games in his 9 seasons.
Made key shot to move past Heat enroute to finals in 1999.
The point is if you put Melo there you should put Allan as he did more as a knick.
As for the Amnesty Clause or the “Allan Houstan Rule”, The knicks applied it to Jerome Williams in 2005.
Billups had one year left on his deal and was also waived using the amnesty rule. I was under the impression it could only be used once but this popped up:
https://www.sports-reference.com/blog/li...
Seems knicks used it twice? I don’t know.
Regarding Allan, the issue was his chronically bad knees and albatross contract. 9 years a knick. In the Dolan era of changing coaches and GM’s, that was something of an achievement itself!!!
For all his shortcomings, Ewing made the Knicks elite while he was playing for us.
For all his accomplishments, Melo never made the Knicks elite.
Only when the Knicks win a championship or at least put together a string of like 10 consecutive playoff appearances should we talk about the rafters again.
I wouldn't be mad if they retired Melo's number but then you'd have to also retire Bernard King and maybe Allan Houston's numbers too.
Panos wrote:joec32033 wrote:Panos wrote:Chandler wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:I don't think he did enough here to get his number retired. Houston is #4 on the all time points list, not retired and I don't think he deserves it either. I am cool with Melo but he didn't earn a spot in the rafters.
this!Plus his FA rubbed me wrong, followed up by his relatively recent statements to the effect he really wanted to go to Bulls. Plus he threw more shade later
I'd prefer A.Houston before him
Ahem
Allan Houston?
Allan Houston of the Allan Houaton Rule, Allan Houston?
Why are we talking about hoisting the number of the guy-the -eague-made-a-special-rule-just-so-the-Knicks-could-cut-his-contract, Allan Houston?
Do you remember exactly why they made that rule? Better yet, do you remember who the Knicks used their "Allan Houston" clause on?
I believe they used it on Chauncey Billups to sign Tyson Chandler.
Not that year. That year, they kept Houston and used it on Jerome Williams. Actually, that clause was never used on him. He ended up retiring.
Rather than saving almost $40 million, New York opted instead to release forward Jerome Williams to avoid $21.3 million in luxury taxes that would have been due over the next three seasons.
https://www.espn.com/blog/truehoop/post/...
gradyandrew wrote:Coffee is for closers.
By that criteria no Knick in the past 50 years should have a number retired
Panos wrote:Chandler wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:I don't think he did enough here to get his number retired. Houston is #4 on the all time points list, not retired and I don't think he deserves it either. I am cool with Melo but he didn't earn a spot in the rafters.
this!Plus his FA rubbed me wrong, followed up by his relatively recent statements to the effect he really wanted to go to Bulls. Plus he threw more shade later
I'd prefer A.Houston before him
Ahem
Allan Houston?
Allan Houston of the Allan Houaton Rule, Allan Houston?
Why are we talking about hoisting the number of the guy-the -eague-made-a-special-rule-just-so-the-Knicks-could-cut-his-contract, Allan Houston?
Houston did prevent us from tanking for Lebron, Melo, Bosh and Wade in 2003 by single handedly winning a bunch of meaningless games so he’s got that
Philc1 wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Coffee is for closers.
By that criteria no Knick in the past 50 years should have a number retired
Ewing's the only one, right? I think the team made a decision that the likes of Starks Houston Sprewell (and if he wanted it Oakley) would get lifetime respect but a roster in the rafters is for champs.
There's an alternate universe where Melo signed as a get FA and hit just enough open 3's to carry the Knicks past Miami and Boston.
That’s about the only thing the Knicks raise to the rafters. No they shouldn’t raise his jersey to the rafters. Dude was an unwilling superstar. Got worse every year after his first three seasons in Denver. His shooting percentage was dismal not superstar worthy. Didn’t make anyone better. He cost the Knicks an arm and a leg when he could have joined the via free agency. Anyways that is ancient history now, looking back no he shouldn’t get his number retired. If they do might as well call Jamal Crawford and Marbury too and hang theirs up. Then we can boast with the Celtics and Lakers and say we got a lot of retired jersey numbers too.
Read some weak stuff about more Knicks having numbers retired.
https://nypost.com/2023/05/27/carmelo-an...I think players that took teams to finals is important as it defined an Era.
H20 did and was 4th leading scorer in knick history. Im up in the air. If pressed I say no.
"Sweetwater Clifton" was an pioneer and I believe was part of teams that went to finals in early 50s'. Yes.
Bernard King. Less than 3 seasons here. Sure he was great but did not define an era, or a long playoff run with finals inclusion.
Dick Barnett and Bill Bradley were very good players, and had great Knick Careers with 2 chips. I get why they are in, but marginal. Bradley HOF inclusion was as well. Happy he there though. Barnett was not. He was an all-star before Clyde emerged. Once. His last Chip in '73 he was role player off the bench. Played in just 4games avg 1.5 min per game in playoffs in 1973. During season he played 51 games, avg 10 minutes and about 3pts per. Major player before Earl came and when earl was hurt.
Bob McAdoo was two time Allstar here and we won a playoff series with him in three years. WE don't celebrate him like King, who played just 30 games more than McAdoo. Both had similar PPG stats.
I like Melo. His career here was uneven. not all 7 seasons were good ones. Not enough playoff substance. Its nice to honor great players but he was not a great knick. He had a great career.
Having watched alls these cats like many of you I say….
Melo - a big NO
Houston - No
Sprewell - No
Bernard - Yes —- just the efficiency, tenacity, the teams he dragged on his back and what could have been
Not sure if Starks is retired but I’d give it to him over 1st 2 guys simply for the heart/effort he brought and big moments he was a part of
LivingLegend wrote:Having watched alls these cats like many of you I say….Melo - a big NO
Houston - No
Sprewell - No
Bernard - Yes —- just the efficiency, tenacity, the teams he dragged on his back and what could have been
Not sure if Starks is retired but I’d give it to him over 1st 2 guys simply for the heart/effort he brought and big moments he was a part of
Barnard: Can’t retire numbers on “what could have been”. It was too brief.
Starks, 8 seasons, one all star game and many memories.
Both gave it their all.
Have to draw a line on the sentimental/subjective vs. a standard. If you redraw it, then so be it.
