Knicks · Year of the ankle… (page 2)

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:That was Al Stewart's original title, before he changed it to "Year of the Cat".

Randle looked healthy on offense, hurt on D. I dont doubt Jules was hurt. More about how he used what he had in the tank. His strategy.

get that weak shit out of here... actually no, I'll explain it to be helpful.

When you are on offense you get to go where YOU want and make the moves YOU want. That allows an injured played to be more choosy about certain moves that might aggravate an injury. We call this "favoring" one body part or another.

However on defense the player is totally reactive and has to stay with an opponent. This does not allow an injured player to favor said body part. It's also why offenses "go at" injured players.

But hey... you can always switch the narrative to this being a result of Thibs overplaying him at some point or another. Cmon.. you know you wanna (if you havent already )

"Weak shit" is you becoming menstrual every time I say anything remotely negative about Randle. I've played many games on bad ankles, what you said is complete BS. A bad ankle doesn't instantly turn you into a one way player.

fishmike wrote:

JesseDark wrote:

ToddTT wrote:

ToddTT wrote:

JesseDark wrote:Grant Hill says take care of that.

You shut your wh*** mouth!

Oh my goodness… I don’t know what came over me.

You good with me.

I thought he was more injured than was known at the time. I think after the initial injury he only had one game where he was his normal self.

Feel bad for Jules, but Knicks are lucky they have him locked up a bit before the question of a new contract comes up.

I feel bad for fans who are so attached to a player, they throw a hissy fit whenever somebody says anything negative about them.

Jules is lucky to play for such a great fan base along with having CAA support.

The real question should be Randle needed surgery, and Thibs still ran him out there knowing how ankle problems can be a prolonged issue. Should have given more run to Obi.

GustavBahler wrote:That was Al Stewart's original title, before he changed it to "Year of the Cat".

Randle looked healthy on offense, hurt on D. I dont doubt Jules was hurt. More about how he used what he had in the tank. His strategy.

Yep, we see this all the time at all levels. When you have an offensive player who’s playing hurt, they always look healthy on offense because that’s their strength and defense is his weakness. But also depending on the ankle sprain, lateral movements can be difficult and he could be scared to make defensive reaction cuts and movement. On offense he’s dictating his own moves and they are more calculated. He probably stays away from lateral movements when he has the ball.

blkexec wrote:

fishmike wrote:

JesseDark wrote:

ToddTT wrote:

ToddTT wrote:

JesseDark wrote:Grant Hill says take care of that.

You shut your wh*** mouth!

Oh my goodness… I don’t know what came over me.

You good with me.

I thought he was more injured than was known at the time. I think after the initial injury he only had one game where he was his normal self.

Feel bad for Jules, but Knicks are lucky they have him locked up a bit before the question of a new contract comes up.

I feel bad for fans who are so attached to a player, they throw a hissy fit whenever somebody says anything negative about them.

Jules is lucky to play for such a great fan base along with having CAA support.

This is the same argument the snowflake Right makes about the snowflake Left. See, from my perspective it's the haters who get their panties in a bunch when you call them out.

blkexec wrote:

fishmike wrote:

JesseDark wrote:

ToddTT wrote:

ToddTT wrote:

JesseDark wrote:Grant Hill says take care of that.

You shut your wh*** mouth!

Oh my goodness… I don’t know what came over me.

You good with me.

I thought he was more injured than was known at the time. I think after the initial injury he only had one game where he was his normal self.

Feel bad for Jules, but Knicks are lucky they have him locked up a bit before the question of a new contract comes up.

I feel bad for fans who are so attached to a player, they throw a hissy fit whenever somebody says anything negative about them.

Jules is lucky to play for such a great fan base along with having CAA support.

One man's man's well-reasoned response is another man's hissy fit....it all comes down to how thick one's skin might be when it comes to such opinionated discussions.

Looking at the back and forth and except for a few weak**** and menstrual references - I'm not sure how you categorize this exchange as a hissy fit...

- Julius Randle has had surgery on his ankle soon after the Knicks were eliminated from the playoffs.

- Most could logically conclude that his overall performance (i.e. both sides of the ball) was hampered by the condition of his ankles.

- Gustav put forth an opinion that JR's performance was not hampered on offense and his defensive output was by strategic choice thereof rather than being mainly a function of his ankle status.

- Fish challenged that opinion

- Gustav offered his own individualized anecdotal experience with bad ankles to try and support his claim

I tend to agree with Fish here.....based on my own experience - that it's more difficult to be reactive on a bad ankle than it is to be proactive.

foosballnick wrote:

blkexec wrote:

fishmike wrote:

JesseDark wrote:

ToddTT wrote:

ToddTT wrote:

JesseDark wrote:Grant Hill says take care of that.

You shut your wh*** mouth!

Oh my goodness… I don’t know what came over me.

You good with me.

I thought he was more injured than was known at the time. I think after the initial injury he only had one game where he was his normal self.

Feel bad for Jules, but Knicks are lucky they have him locked up a bit before the question of a new contract comes up.

I feel bad for fans who are so attached to a player, they throw a hissy fit whenever somebody says anything negative about them.

Jules is lucky to play for such a great fan base along with having CAA support.

One man's man's well-reasoned response is another man's hissy fit....it all comes down to how thick one's skin might be when it comes to such opinionated discussions.

Looking at the back and forth and except for a few weak**** and menstrual references - I'm not sure how you categorize this exchange as a hissy fit...

- Julius Randle has had surgery on his ankle soon after the Knicks were eliminated from the playoffs.

- Most could logically conclude that his overall performance (i.e. both sides of the ball) was hampered by the condition of his ankles.

- Gustav put forth an opinion that JR's performance was not hampered on offense and his defensive output was by strategic choice thereof rather than being mainly a function of his ankle status.

- Fish challenged that opinion

- Gustav offered his own individualized anecdotal experience with bad ankles to try and support his claim

I tend to agree with Fish here.....based on my own experience - that it's more difficult to be reactive on a bad ankle than it is to be proactive.

its always the same posters crying about the same players and the coach no matter what. Just like they think it's cute to dog the same guys I think its cute to call out the jive. Look at this spirited discussion! And blkexec thinks I love Randle. Jules is one of my least favorite guys on the squad but I understand his value and hearing "Thibs doesnt hold him accountable" over and over got old.

fishmike wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

blkexec wrote:

fishmike wrote:

JesseDark wrote:

ToddTT wrote:

ToddTT wrote:

JesseDark wrote:Grant Hill says take care of that.

You shut your wh*** mouth!

Oh my goodness… I don’t know what came over me.

You good with me.

I thought he was more injured than was known at the time. I think after the initial injury he only had one game where he was his normal self.

Feel bad for Jules, but Knicks are lucky they have him locked up a bit before the question of a new contract comes up.

I feel bad for fans who are so attached to a player, they throw a hissy fit whenever somebody says anything negative about them.

Jules is lucky to play for such a great fan base along with having CAA support.

One man's man's well-reasoned response is another man's hissy fit....it all comes down to how thick one's skin might be when it comes to such opinionated discussions.

Looking at the back and forth and except for a few weak**** and menstrual references - I'm not sure how you categorize this exchange as a hissy fit...

- Julius Randle has had surgery on his ankle soon after the Knicks were eliminated from the playoffs.

- Most could logically conclude that his overall performance (i.e. both sides of the ball) was hampered by the condition of his ankles.

- Gustav put forth an opinion that JR's performance was not hampered on offense and his defensive output was by strategic choice thereof rather than being mainly a function of his ankle status.

- Fish challenged that opinion

- Gustav offered his own individualized anecdotal experience with bad ankles to try and support his claim

I tend to agree with Fish here.....based on my own experience - that it's more difficult to be reactive on a bad ankle than it is to be proactive.

its always the same posters crying about the same players and the coach no matter what. Just like they think it's cute to dog the same guys I think its cute to call out the jive. Look at this spirited discussion! And blkexec thinks I love Randle. Jules is one of my least favorite guys on the squad but I understand his value and hearing "Thibs doesnt hold him accountable" over and over got old.

I mean, former players have made remarks about Thibs not holding Randle accountable. That is a thing. That said, Randle was a different player in the postseason. Or the same player if you want to point to his overall performance in the postseason. It's clear to me the ankle was an issue and we shouldn't kill him so much. Doesn't mean there other things to get on him about and doesn't mean I feel comfortable relying on him as an option going into the playoffs. Just means I'm giving him a pass in this instance.

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:That was Al Stewart's original title, before he changed it to "Year of the Cat".

Randle looked healthy on offense, hurt on D. I dont doubt Jules was hurt. More about how he used what he had in the tank. His strategy.

get that weak shit out of here... actually no, I'll explain it to be helpful.

When you are on offense you get to go where YOU want and make the moves YOU want. That allows an injured played to be more choosy about certain moves that might aggravate an injury. We call this "favoring" one body part or another.

However on defense the player is totally reactive and has to stay with an opponent. This does not allow an injured player to favor said body part. It's also why offenses "go at" injured players.

But hey... you can always switch the narrative to this being a result of Thibs overplaying him at some point or another. Cmon.. you know you wanna (if you havent already )

"Weak shit" is you becoming menstrual every time I say anything remotely negative about Randle. I've played many games on bad ankles, what you said is complete BS. A bad ankle doesn't instantly turn you into a one way player.

Playing at the Y against a couple of guys looking to hit the back board in between sets on the nautilus machine MAY not be the same as guarding one of the better players in the NBA.

Fact: Randle was an all Star and All NBA.
Had TWO big ankle sprains and needed surgery. Yet played.
Narrative that we should ignore those facts for negative takes is more hate driven than fact driven.
As was the narrative that Obi was able to replace Randle. Remember those days?

Some additional facts:
Randle's production cannot easily be replaced. Especially for equal salary.
Until then, trading him is as dumb as starting a narrative that despite his ankle he should have had a high level of production. Especially on the defensive side.
3 out of 5 games played against Miami, Randle averaged a double double and averages over .500 shooting. Probably not as good as your Y success during your injury. Which I am sure also required surgery right after.

blkexec wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:That was Al Stewart's original title, before he changed it to "Year of the Cat".

Randle looked healthy on offense, hurt on D. I dont doubt Jules was hurt. More about how he used what he had in the tank. His strategy.

Yep, we see this all the time at all levels. When you have an offensive player who’s playing hurt, they always look healthy on offense because that’s their strength and defense is his weakness. But also depending on the ankle sprain, lateral movements can be difficult and he could be scared to make defensive reaction cuts and movement. On offense he’s dictating his own moves and they are more calculated. He probably stays away from lateral movements when he has the ball.

This point is true.
Several sports also have same challenges.
Football players with bad ankles can play more easily if they are not in a reactionary position. Aka defense.
But Gustav's experience probably trumps any of these points.

It’s also not that easy to mentally prepare yourself for this city.

Guys ripping the Julius sign off the wall stomping on it, people actively wishing for Covid or an injury to get Toppin minutes.

He’s going to be making less that every allstar on their second contracts and usually plays most games. We aren’t replacing that production.

Towns? KP? John Collins?

You don’t trade a dollar for 4 quarters and come out ahead.

Running a more motioned styled offense and adding another shooter is what this team needs.

Did we expect him to kick it to Mitch, Hart? Again, I’m not a big supporter but understand what the guy does provide and ask which guy is mentally tough on the open market to handle the NY pressure.

It’s a list you could count on two hands.

Spent 6 months recovering from an ankle injury from playing streetball in NYC before I moved. Same age as Jules. 4 months on crutches, 2 with a cane. Went to the same Hospital, and doctors who treated the Knicks at the time. They told me it was worse than a break.

I don't need anyone lecturing me on ankle injuries. I'm fully aware of how it can hurt you on defense. Spent months on the court working my way back. Played against all types. It hurts on offense and defense.

Randle spent too much time trying to take his defenders off the dribble. Didn't have had more left for D. Other ways to score.

The man is literally one of the worst playoff performers in NBA history. One of the least clutch stars in the league. But some of you treat any criticism, anything at all, like a blood libel. FFS give it a rest.

Ankle injuries have subjected me to some of the worst pain I've experienced in my life.

And the worst part is realizing HOW MUCH YOU NEED YOUR DAMN ANKLES!

ToddTT wrote:Ankle injuries have subjected me to some of the worst pain I've experienced in my life.

And the worst part is realizing HOW MUCH YOU NEED YOUR DAMN ANKLES!

Don't worry about it Toddbot. I'm gonna get to that update soon.

MS wrote:It’s also not that easy to mentally prepare yourself for this city.

Guys ripping the Julius sign off the wall stomping on it, people actively wishing for Covid or an injury to get Toppin minutes.

He’s going to be making less that every allstar on their second contracts and usually plays most games. We aren’t replacing that production.

Towns? KP? John Collins?

You don’t trade a dollar for 4 quarters and come out ahead.

Running a more motioned styled offense and adding another shooter is what this team needs.

Did we expect him to kick it to Mitch, Hart? Again, I’m not a big supporter but understand what the guy does provide and ask which guy is mentally tough on the open market to handle the NY pressure.

It’s a list you could count on two hands.

True about the city and fans can be too tough at times (eg me). He is on a good contract. He plays hard and is usually durable. For me it's more about how he plays, dominates the ball, poor court vision. You can trade a dollar for 4 quarters if 4 quarters offers more flexibility/options. We play slow with Randle and that seems pretty clear. While he is needed due to his scoring/iso ability - we don't maximize the strengths of the majority of the remaining players by playing slow. We make ourselves too easy to guard, even before the 4th when the game tends to slow down. This is a Thibs issue mostly - but also a Randle one. There have been glimpses of Randle playing uptempo and we played beautifully.

Generally speaking - the combination of Randle and Thibs = slow ball which results in us not playing due our maximum capabilities IMO. So reason I'm fine with moving Randle is not that I'm certain we will replicate his 24 pts and 10-11 boards... it's that I believe Brunson and RJ will both play better (eg score more) with increased tempo and less Randle-ball. I do think Obi can offer 15 and 6/7 which is serviceable. Long-term we could look at an outside shooting PF (eg Lauri M) after we see if RJ steps up more with more touches and spacing around him (and Brunson).

And I do see that we would struggle at crunch time w/o Randle at times - but it's a trade off for the overall good of our ball movement and game pace.

Won't happen btw...

GustavBahler wrote:Spent 6 months recovering from an ankle injury from playing streetball in NYC before I moved. Same age as Jules. 4 months on crutches, 2 with a cane. Went to the same Hospital, and doctors who treated the Knicks at the time. They told me it was worse than a break.

I don't need anyone lecturing me on ankle injuries. I'm fully aware of how it can hurt you on defense. Spent months on the court working my way back. Played against all types. It hurts on offense and defense.

Randle spent too much time trying to take his defenders off the dribble. Didn't have had more left for D. Other ways to score.

The man is literally one of the worst playoff performers in NBA history. One of the least clutch stars in the league. But some of you treat any criticism, anything at all, like a blood libel. FFS give it a rest.

What you need is a lecture on being able to tell the difference between having an ankle sprain and then going in to play "streetball" vs having two sever springs and then playing in an NBA playoff series. And how difficult it is to average 20/10 in three out of the 5 played. (Not talking bout streetball)

You also need a lecture on the concept of production cost replacement. Which is why Randle has value. But I'll let you simmer on the first lecture. .