Knicks · Biggest question mark and key on Knicks. Grimes (page 3)
GustavBahler wrote:joec32033 wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:joec32033 wrote:foosballnick wrote:joec32033 wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:martin wrote:BRIGGS wrote:I wish we had the grimes from sl who was a secondary ball handler and played more fluently. He had some great games during year but ultimately was an under performer when it counts. He seems to robotic in his movements and he plays to fast. Is he going to be more like the guy from sl or stay as a limited robotic player? I really had high hopes and perhaps like iq he’s gonna breakoutYou can't overwhelm a younger player.
He played 46 games his first year, missing a large chunk of first part of season and end of season with injury and unfortunately got hit again beginning of this one.
This year he starts and plays gonzo POA D while spacing. That's his role and his real first big step in NBA and I think he aced it.
Both years he shoots 38% from distance with near 60% eFG (as a mile marker, our other high volume starting wing has never quite hit 50% eFG in his 4 year career).
You are asking for near all star level play from a #25 pick in his first full season.
This is what literal good development looks like.
Briggs - I think its unfair to compare Summer League to the NBA. When I look at Grimes, I see an undersized SG with a great first step, solid shooting form from 3 and great defensive skills. He shows maturity when playing against 19 year olds and can utilize his quick first step to create space. He gets to operate as primary ballhandler in SL if he desires. I don't think this translates to the NBA. He is the kind of guy you could line up 1-3 defensively depending on the matchup - but it is depending on the matchup. I also see a young player that hasn't 100% caught up to the speed of the NBA and gets caught on occasion picking up his dribble.
If the question is whether he will ever become an All Star? I think the answer is probably "no". I may catch grief for this assessment on this board, but I think he lacks the fundamental size of the Klay Thompson arch-type road to the All Star game. I think he lacks the athleticism of the Donovan Mitchell type SGs. He is a bit of an undersized Doug Christie. I don't think that keeps him from being a legitimate rotation player on a good team, but he will be facing size mismatches his entire career and I do not see him having the skill set to be an All Star in the face of those mismatches. He is more likely to be All Defensive team than an All Star Team.
But there is no rush and I don't see him being a huge question mark. I think the question mark are the expectations.
This is probably the best comp of him I have seen to date. I agree with everything you've said in this post.
For me its still a better defending / slightly worse shooting version of Allan Houston.
I honestly don't think he is the scorer Allan was. Christie was a defender first then a scorer. As well as he shoots the 3, I have a hard time classifying Grimes as a sniper. Like I said , I never though of it before but I am 100% in on the Christie comp. I think it is the best one out there. And that is not to discount Grimes. Christie was a helluva player and a key piece to those really tough Sacremento teams.
Christie, who's also aa former Knicks, definitely started his career as a scorer first. It took him time to develop into the Sacramento Christie we all know. I say this because I think it's too early to say what Grimes is. Year 3 is usually when we get a better idea of what a player will become throughout his career. I'm not worried about Grimes trajectory... yet.
Christie was not a scorer. Never is/was/will be. He could score, but was never a scorer (his highest average was a little over 16 a game at 27 years old.
Christie was known more for scoring than defense, until he joined the Kings. Christie went to JVG for advice after hearing he was gone. Jeff told him to commit himself to being a first rate defender. And that's what he did.
I never remember him being known for his offense. I remember he was billed as being able to play PG at 6-6 (which at the time would have made him huge). Only notable play I remember from him is some random breakaway dunk he got off of a steal. From what I remember he wasn't billed as a strong offensive player or defensive player. Just that he had great size for the PG position.
I could be wrong. I was 12 when he was drafted.
joec32033 wrote:foosballnick wrote:joec32033 wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:martin wrote:BRIGGS wrote:I wish we had the grimes from sl who was a secondary ball handler and played more fluently. He had some great games during year but ultimately was an under performer when it counts. He seems to robotic in his movements and he plays to fast. Is he going to be more like the guy from sl or stay as a limited robotic player? I really had high hopes and perhaps like iq he’s gonna breakoutYou can't overwhelm a younger player.
He played 46 games his first year, missing a large chunk of first part of season and end of season with injury and unfortunately got hit again beginning of this one.
This year he starts and plays gonzo POA D while spacing. That's his role and his real first big step in NBA and I think he aced it.
Both years he shoots 38% from distance with near 60% eFG (as a mile marker, our other high volume starting wing has never quite hit 50% eFG in his 4 year career).
You are asking for near all star level play from a #25 pick in his first full season.
This is what literal good development looks like.
Briggs - I think its unfair to compare Summer League to the NBA. When I look at Grimes, I see an undersized SG with a great first step, solid shooting form from 3 and great defensive skills. He shows maturity when playing against 19 year olds and can utilize his quick first step to create space. He gets to operate as primary ballhandler in SL if he desires. I don't think this translates to the NBA. He is the kind of guy you could line up 1-3 defensively depending on the matchup - but it is depending on the matchup. I also see a young player that hasn't 100% caught up to the speed of the NBA and gets caught on occasion picking up his dribble.
If the question is whether he will ever become an All Star? I think the answer is probably "no". I may catch grief for this assessment on this board, but I think he lacks the fundamental size of the Klay Thompson arch-type road to the All Star game. I think he lacks the athleticism of the Donovan Mitchell type SGs. He is a bit of an undersized Doug Christie. I don't think that keeps him from being a legitimate rotation player on a good team, but he will be facing size mismatches his entire career and I do not see him having the skill set to be an All Star in the face of those mismatches. He is more likely to be All Defensive team than an All Star Team.
But there is no rush and I don't see him being a huge question mark. I think the question mark are the expectations.
This is probably the best comp of him I have seen to date. I agree with everything you've said in this post.
For me its still a better defending / slightly worse shooting version of Allan Houston.
I honestly don't think he is the scorer Allan was. Christie was a defender first then a scorer. As well as he shoots the 3, I have a hard time classifying Grimes as a sniper. Like I said , I never though of it before but I am 100% in on the Christie comp. I think it is the best one out there. And that is not to discount Grimes. Christie was a helluva player and a key piece to those really tough Sacremento teams.
I'm taking into account Houston's first 3 years in Detroit where he really blossomed in Year 3. Christie comparison is interesting from an overall career standpoint, not with his time with the Knick IMO.
foosballnick wrote:joec32033 wrote:foosballnick wrote:joec32033 wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:martin wrote:BRIGGS wrote:I wish we had the grimes from sl who was a secondary ball handler and played more fluently. He had some great games during year but ultimately was an under performer when it counts. He seems to robotic in his movements and he plays to fast. Is he going to be more like the guy from sl or stay as a limited robotic player? I really had high hopes and perhaps like iq he’s gonna breakoutYou can't overwhelm a younger player.
He played 46 games his first year, missing a large chunk of first part of season and end of season with injury and unfortunately got hit again beginning of this one.
This year he starts and plays gonzo POA D while spacing. That's his role and his real first big step in NBA and I think he aced it.
Both years he shoots 38% from distance with near 60% eFG (as a mile marker, our other high volume starting wing has never quite hit 50% eFG in his 4 year career).
You are asking for near all star level play from a #25 pick in his first full season.
This is what literal good development looks like.
Briggs - I think its unfair to compare Summer League to the NBA. When I look at Grimes, I see an undersized SG with a great first step, solid shooting form from 3 and great defensive skills. He shows maturity when playing against 19 year olds and can utilize his quick first step to create space. He gets to operate as primary ballhandler in SL if he desires. I don't think this translates to the NBA. He is the kind of guy you could line up 1-3 defensively depending on the matchup - but it is depending on the matchup. I also see a young player that hasn't 100% caught up to the speed of the NBA and gets caught on occasion picking up his dribble.
If the question is whether he will ever become an All Star? I think the answer is probably "no". I may catch grief for this assessment on this board, but I think he lacks the fundamental size of the Klay Thompson arch-type road to the All Star game. I think he lacks the athleticism of the Donovan Mitchell type SGs. He is a bit of an undersized Doug Christie. I don't think that keeps him from being a legitimate rotation player on a good team, but he will be facing size mismatches his entire career and I do not see him having the skill set to be an All Star in the face of those mismatches. He is more likely to be All Defensive team than an All Star Team.
But there is no rush and I don't see him being a huge question mark. I think the question mark are the expectations.
This is probably the best comp of him I have seen to date. I agree with everything you've said in this post.
For me its still a better defending / slightly worse shooting version of Allan Houston.
I honestly don't think he is the scorer Allan was. Christie was a defender first then a scorer. As well as he shoots the 3, I have a hard time classifying Grimes as a sniper. Like I said , I never though of it before but I am 100% in on the Christie comp. I think it is the best one out there. And that is not to discount Grimes. Christie was a helluva player and a key piece to those really tough Sacremento teams.
I'm taking into account Houston's first 3 years in Detroit where he really blossomed in Year 3. Christie comparison is interesting from an overall career standpoint, not with his time with the Knick IMO.
Houston was a very good to excellent offensive player in his prime. He had a repertoire of moves and could hit high percentage from mid range and 3-point. If Houston played in today’s era he would be a superstar closer to what James Harden is. Grimes is a good player and already a much better defender than Houston ever was but he’s not even close offensively