Knicks · The Trade Market as it pertains to Washington (page 2)
Low value? If Beal gets hurt again he is unmovable?
He does loses a step, he is unmovable.
Why wait?
Funny, Pooles numbers are similar to Beals. PHX could have just traded Paul for Poole and saved half.
GSW does this which admits they made a mistake for Poole and are not rebuilding. The new CBA also altered things.
The impatient one was PHX. Isiah Thomas again. LOL.
Wiz got Tysus Jones which is pretty good for them. They also got some draft capital. The mistake was not trading Beal BEFORE they extended him. If not, you let him walk. In otherwords, was he injured prior to his extension? That was your missed window. After that they clearly thought they were middle of the pack last season. The deal For KP was a good one as he played very well and was healthy. The 65 games was in part “Load management”.
Nalod wrote:Wiz were going nowhere and Beal contract was a killer for a team that needed to restructure.
Low value? If Beal gets hurt again he is unmovable?
He does loses a step, he is unmovable.
Why wait?Funny, Pooles numbers are similar to Beals. PHX could have just traded Paul for Poole and saved half.
GSW does this which admits they made a mistake for Poole and are not rebuilding. The new CBA also altered things.
The impatient one was PHX. Isiah Thomas again. LOL.Wiz got Tysus Jones which is pretty good for them. They also got some draft capital. The mistake was not trading Beal BEFORE they extended him. If not, you let him walk. In otherwords, was he injured prior to his extension? That was your missed window. After that they clearly thought they were middle of the pack last season. The deal For KP was a good one as he played very well and was healthy. The 65 games was in part “Load management”.
True. OR they should have offered him 2 scenarios: No trade clause at max or trade clause at much lower number.
martin wrote:Nalod wrote:Wiz were going nowhere and Beal contract was a killer for a team that needed to restructure.
Low value? If Beal gets hurt again he is unmovable?
He does loses a step, he is unmovable.
Why wait?Funny, Pooles numbers are similar to Beals. PHX could have just traded Paul for Poole and saved half.
GSW does this which admits they made a mistake for Poole and are not rebuilding. The new CBA also altered things.
The impatient one was PHX. Isiah Thomas again. LOL.Wiz got Tysus Jones which is pretty good for them. They also got some draft capital. The mistake was not trading Beal BEFORE they extended him. If not, you let him walk. In otherwords, was he injured prior to his extension? That was your missed window. After that they clearly thought they were middle of the pack last season. The deal For KP was a good one as he played very well and was healthy. The 65 games was in part “Load management”.
True. OR they should have offered him 2 scenarios: No trade clause at max or trade clause at much lower number.
Tommy Shepard paid a price for screwing it up. Beal’s agent had them over a barrel and there must have been a market for him to apply leverage. That team should have been a play in given its roster.
I recall Lenonis wanted to build with yoot and directed Grunfeld to do so. Earnie wanted vet presence and when he got some they did make playoffs and I believe won a series. Its why Earnie stayed on the job for some time. Owner did not blame him for the directive he was given. Ted made typical new owner mistakes. Earnie eventually was moved out for what ever reasons. He had along career and time demands are extreme for the job.
Nalod wrote:martin wrote:Nalod wrote:Wiz were going nowhere and Beal contract was a killer for a team that needed to restructure.
Low value? If Beal gets hurt again he is unmovable?
He does loses a step, he is unmovable.
Why wait?Funny, Pooles numbers are similar to Beals. PHX could have just traded Paul for Poole and saved half.
GSW does this which admits they made a mistake for Poole and are not rebuilding. The new CBA also altered things.
The impatient one was PHX. Isiah Thomas again. LOL.Wiz got Tysus Jones which is pretty good for them. They also got some draft capital. The mistake was not trading Beal BEFORE they extended him. If not, you let him walk. In otherwords, was he injured prior to his extension? That was your missed window. After that they clearly thought they were middle of the pack last season. The deal For KP was a good one as he played very well and was healthy. The 65 games was in part “Load management”.
True. OR they should have offered him 2 scenarios: No trade clause at max or trade clause at much lower number.
Tommy Shepard paid a price for screwing it up. Beal’s agent had them over a barrel and there must have been a market for him to apply leverage. That team should have been a play in given its roster.
I recall Lenonis wanted to build with yoot and directed Grunfeld to do so. Earnie wanted vet presence and when he got some they did make playoffs and I believe won a series. Its why Earnie stayed on the job for some time. Owner did not blame him for the directive he was given. Ted made typical new owner mistakes. Earnie eventually was moved out for what ever reasons. He had along career and time demands are extreme for the job.
It's true, but also true: 8% raises for 5 years for home team versus 5% raises for 4 years. That's an extra year at near $60M and the raises differential. Shepard really fucked up, he had the leverage IMO
martin wrote:Nalod wrote:martin wrote:Nalod wrote:Wiz were going nowhere and Beal contract was a killer for a team that needed to restructure.
Low value? If Beal gets hurt again he is unmovable?
He does loses a step, he is unmovable.
Why wait?Funny, Pooles numbers are similar to Beals. PHX could have just traded Paul for Poole and saved half.
GSW does this which admits they made a mistake for Poole and are not rebuilding. The new CBA also altered things.
The impatient one was PHX. Isiah Thomas again. LOL.Wiz got Tysus Jones which is pretty good for them. They also got some draft capital. The mistake was not trading Beal BEFORE they extended him. If not, you let him walk. In otherwords, was he injured prior to his extension? That was your missed window. After that they clearly thought they were middle of the pack last season. The deal For KP was a good one as he played very well and was healthy. The 65 games was in part “Load management”.
True. OR they should have offered him 2 scenarios: No trade clause at max or trade clause at much lower number.
Tommy Shepard paid a price for screwing it up. Beal’s agent had them over a barrel and there must have been a market for him to apply leverage. That team should have been a play in given its roster.
I recall Lenonis wanted to build with yoot and directed Grunfeld to do so. Earnie wanted vet presence and when he got some they did make playoffs and I believe won a series. Its why Earnie stayed on the job for some time. Owner did not blame him for the directive he was given. Ted made typical new owner mistakes. Earnie eventually was moved out for what ever reasons. He had along career and time demands are extreme for the job.It's true, but also true: 8% raises for 5 years for home team versus 5% raises for 4 years. That's an extra year at near $60M and the raises differential. Shepard really fucked up, he had the leverage IMO
even if owner was leaning on his GM to keep Beal he should have read the market better and perhaps pushed back on the idea. Thats what a good exec does. If owner is misguided he has to have a voice. If the exec needs a hail mary to keep his job then its on the owner to cut him loose before or live with the consequences. I
thought when Dolan fired Phil he had had enough but it premature to some extend. He wanted to trade KP for top dollar (hindsight it great!!). But Dolan saw it as “he is trading my star, my draw!”. Knicks at least had been building capital and not trading picks. Mills had a mess on his hands and was not really of his doing but if he wanted to make moves to save his ass he was cut off. That was a good move. Perry had proven himself worthy and kept on since.
As for Perry, he is coming up to 60 years old and perhaps looking to slow down a bit or take on a bigger role with another team? I have no idea of his family situation or life plans/goals. Maybe he gets a gig with the NBA office like Stu Jax did back in the day. Perry is well respected in the league.
Knicks been quiet regarding naming a replacement if in fact one is to be named.
LivingLegend wrote:Knixkik wrote:I am already starting to see chatter around the Internet about how the market is fluctuating so much in terms of cost because of what Winger in Washington just did with Beal and Porzingis. Let me just say, I can’t believe that ownership signed off on this. Winger essentially put a liquidation, everything must go sign outside of the front office and rushed these guys out the door at less than 10 cents on the dollar. They didn’t get one real asset for Beal. They got #30 for porzingis. Those trades would always be there for those guys. They aren’t kicking off this rebuild with any new assets to get excited about. If they hit on their lottery pick and tank and hit on the next pick, all will be forgotten. But this is legitimately the worst roster management I’ve seen in this era, maybe alongside the new President of the Twolves getting desperate for Gobert. So how does this pertain to the Knicks ? I am not expecting a bargain trade or comparing the next Knicks trade to the Beal and Porzingis deals. Those were simple a new guy trying to move on without concern for perception or any value appreciation.Beal had them by the balls - they had zero leverage. Beal even dictated that when Wiz asked for Ayton - he said I'm not approving deal unless Ayton stays.
He gave them 1 team to deal with and it wasn't this new guy that gave him the giant contract and no-trade clause.KP is more interesting in that it's basically 2 deals. Smart to Memphis for 2 picks. And KP for T-Jones and filler contracts. That is crazy but maybe it speaks to how few teams want to pay KP new contract that would start where? $40-$50M for 4-5 years??? I'm not sure what #s will be but the poor return just may be about finances in new agreement.
Good move for Memphis. Smart is a good pg who can backfill Ja for 25 games. I’m gonna love watching drunk Celtics fans heckle KP next season
gradyandrew wrote:It didn't even make sense to trade him. His contract still has 4 more years. The wizards won't be any closer to contention 4 years from now. We've seen Orlando go from fire sale to Optimism pretty quickly because they were able to get young assets and draft picks for their stars; Washington didn't get either. Just a terrible offseason for Wizards and their fans.
They got Jordan Poole.
Your forgetting Nets return to playoffs post Pierce and Garnett with no good picks in a few short years.
You might not see a path at the moment.
They were shit last year and wil be shit for another year or so. The new CBA provides teams opportunities like Poole, who even last year had similar stats to Beal.
They still might resign Kuzma but thats no franchise maker.
What they did wrong was sign Wall and Beal to massive deals and not the return they had hoped. Very hard to do two and bad fortune.
Clippers are figuring out what most thought that the window to success was to be short. 4 years later its not pretty and the CBA does not help. Dumb as the lakers are, they have a chip with Lebron and made Conf finals.
Dumb as Heat are, they keep coming back illogically.
Wiz plan was not entirely bad but it did not execute because of injuries. Reality is its not easy to let Wall and Beal walk in their prime and not easy to know the future of injuries.
Some think Wiz did real well turning Beal into picks, swaps and Poole. If Suns falter in two years, those picks might be valuable.
Rockets are banking on Nets dimise for the harden trade, and Nets hope philly the same.
Clippers falter OKC looks even better.
Presumably Wizards could have traded KP for Smart and resigned Kuzma.
Smart/ Morris
Beal
Avidja/ Krispert
Kuzma/ Coulilaby
Gafford
My feeling is there's more to the NBA than tanking and championships. I'd probably fire the coach before trading Beal.