VDesai wrote:Come on people. You are using Miami/ Duncan Robinson as an example of playing a benched player? The guy was on the bench for most of 2 seasons before they gave him time again - and they needed 2 SGs to get injured before he finally got himself run again.
Right.
On top of that, if you want to play guys like Rose and Fournier, state this out loud so we can clearly hear it from you: You don't want to play or develop the younger players and you are so focused on the one possible tactic switch just to win games despite the obvious fact that the Knicks are not contenders.
Some keep saying Thibs is a win only coach, what you are actually seeing is fans who are wins only focused.
Knicks are in a development process. Eat it up.
It'll probably be Fournier, Obi, one or maybe two '24 picks for Bogdanvic or Hayward or something like that.
SergioNYK wrote:It'll probably be Fournier, Obi, one or maybe two '24 picks for Bogdanvic or Hayward or something like that.
I don’t know about his defense but that brother can shoot the ball.
Johnnie Bryant would know his game well.
martin wrote:VDesai wrote:Come on people. You are using Miami/ Duncan Robinson as an example of playing a benched player? The guy was on the bench for most of 2 seasons before they gave him time again - and they needed 2 SGs to get injured before he finally got himself run again.
Right.
On top of that, if you want to play guys like Rose and Fournier, state this out loud so we can clearly hear it from you: You don't want to play or develop the younger players and you are so focused on the one possible tactic switch just to win games despite the obvious fact that the Knicks are not contenders.
Some keep saying Thibs is a win only coach, what you are actually seeing is fans who are wins only focused.
Knicks are in a development process. Eat it up.
That's the point - instead of trying to utilize him somewhat - in whatever limited role he could offer - he gets banished and drains whatever value he possessed. You telling me he couldn't have played spot minutes when we couldn't make a shot outside of 12 feet in the Heat series? Spol not playing DR for a long time and then returning to him out of necessity is what I thought Thibs could have done... even if just to break up the monotony of brick laying in some of those games.
I was never an EF fan and am completely fine that he goes - just annoying that we keep bringing in players that we then have to attach a pick to get rid of. Cam may have been a headcase but EF seemed to just sit and be professional. Watching game 6 and seeing us just continuing the same approach when we clearly needed outside shooting was painful when the Heat brought their version of EF and he helped them.
martin wrote:SergioNYK wrote:It'll probably be Fournier, Obi, one or maybe two '24 picks for Bogdanvic or Hayward or something like that.
I don’t know about his defense but that brother can shoot the ball.
Johnnie Bryant would know his game well.
Bogdanovic is old. Guy is 34. Not worth trading for.
jskinny35 wrote:martin wrote:VDesai wrote:Come on people. You are using Miami/ Duncan Robinson as an example of playing a benched player? The guy was on the bench for most of 2 seasons before they gave him time again - and they needed 2 SGs to get injured before he finally got himself run again.
Right.
On top of that, if you want to play guys like Rose and Fournier, state this out loud so we can clearly hear it from you: You don't want to play or develop the younger players and you are so focused on the one possible tactic switch just to win games despite the obvious fact that the Knicks are not contenders.
Some keep saying Thibs is a win only coach, what you are actually seeing is fans who are wins only focused.
Knicks are in a development process. Eat it up.
That's the point - instead of trying to utilize him somewhat - in whatever limited role he could offer - he gets banished and drains whatever value he possessed. You telling me he couldn't have played spot minutes when we couldn't make a shot outside of 12 feet in the Heat series? Spol not playing DR for a long time and then returning to him out of necessity is what I thought Thibs could have done... even if just to break up the monotony of brick laying in some of those games.
I was never an EF fan and am completely fine that he goes - just annoying that we keep bringing in players that we then have to attach a pick to get rid of. Cam may have been a headcase but EF seemed to just sit and be professional. Watching game 6 and seeing us just continuing the same approach when we clearly needed outside shooting was painful when the Heat brought their version of EF and he helped them.
Fournier played spot minutes for like 20 games this past season. How did he do in those minutes?
I can answer that for you, he shot shitty and played his usual shitty defense.
Why would you want to pay him more when guys like IQ Grines and McBride could use those minutes?
gradyandrew wrote:martin wrote:SergioNYK wrote:It'll probably be Fournier, Obi, one or maybe two '24 picks for Bogdanvic or Hayward or something like that.
I don’t know about his defense but that brother can shoot the ball.
Johnnie Bryant would know his game well.
Bogdanovic is old. Guy is 34. Not worth trading for.
He is definitely worth trading Fournier for him. 20ppg and shot the lights out?
martin wrote:gradyandrew wrote:martin wrote:SergioNYK wrote:It'll probably be Fournier, Obi, one or maybe two '24 picks for Bogdanvic or Hayward or something like that.
I don’t know about his defense but that brother can shoot the ball.
Johnnie Bryant would know his game well.
Bogdanovic is old. Guy is 34. Not worth trading for.
He is definitely worth trading Fournier for him. 20ppg and shot the lights out?
Well, I don't think the deal gets done straight up,so what's the sweetener? Is he worth a late first round pick? I think with the Hart trade, the Knicks were confident they could get him for another contract. I'm not sure of the value of Bogs getting a new contract. Do 2nd rounders get it done? I think if we're trading with Detroit I'd rather go for Burks. Detroit can accept more salary, Knicks can use MLE without hitting the tax line.
Knicks could deal EF straight up for Doug McDermott. This is entirely based on the idea that SA would want fellow frog eater EF playing with Wemby. Wemby has already committed to missing FIBA because he wants to play in the Olympics for France next year. More time with model citizen and teammate Evan Fournier could only be a good thing.
Dougie fresh shot 41% on 4.7 3PA per last year. His contract goes for one season longer. If Knicks make this trade and can get Josh to exercise his player option, the Knicks would open up just enough cap space to use the full mle without hitting the tax line. We all love Donte but mat Grant Williams is the better fit as a long term back up for Randle.
Brunson/ IQ
Grimes/ Hart
RJ/ McDermott
Randle/ Williams
Robinson/ Hartenstein
Obi becomes redundant in that situation so probably look to trade him for a trade exemption and future draft considerations.
Finally, for those wondering, the Spurs still have $25.4 million in cap space remaining - enough to take on Evan Fournier’s contract should such a need arise.
Caseloads wrote:Finally, for those wondering, the Spurs still have $25.4 million in cap space remaining - enough to take on Evan Fournier’s contract should such a need arise.
Very minimal advantage to the Knicks doing this. They just get out of paying Fournier.
After losing Kawhi, Lowry, and FVV, among others with minimal return, is Toronto going to see the writing on the wall and revisit trading OG to the Knicks?
gradyandrew wrote:Caseloads wrote:Finally, for those wondering, the Spurs still have $25.4 million in cap space remaining - enough to take on Evan Fournier’s contract should such a need arise.
Very minimal advantage to the Knicks doing this. They just get out of paying Fournier.
After losing Kawhi, Lowry, and FVV, among others with minimal return, is Toronto going to see the writing on the wall and revisit trading OG to the Knicks?
Yes, and I'd go one-step further to suggest it's a negative as it'd would hamstring us and our ability to make a trade throughout the season without Fournier's salary to use as filler.
gradyandrew wrote:Caseloads wrote:Finally, for those wondering, the Spurs still have $25.4 million in cap space remaining - enough to take on Evan Fournier’s contract should such a need arise.
Very minimal advantage to the Knicks doing this. They just get out of paying Fournier.
After losing Kawhi, Lowry, and FVV, among others with minimal return, is Toronto going to see the writing on the wall and revisit trading OG to the Knicks?
They all leave with rings!
I hear you, but at the same time they got good value from them. Kawhi has not fulfilled his contract value in LA, Lowrey walking was ok, no way they were gont to pay him 30mm that he got in Miami, and FVV? they offered him 3 for 30mm. he got paid crazy money. He is good, but a smallish combo guard are not good long term investments either. They get salary relief to do other things.
Im good with OG here. Just depends on the price.
Trade Evan and his expiring to Boston in a ST for Grant Williams and give them two second rounders or on a smaller deal using the TPE. Talent acquisition is great Incase of a future bigger deal. Better to have Grant Williams to trade then Evan.
Alpha1971 wrote:Trade Evan and his expiring to Boston in a ST for Grant Williams and give them two second rounders or on a smaller deal using the TPE. Talent acquisition is great Incase of a future bigger deal. Better to have Grant Williams to trade then Evan.
What's Boston's cap look like? I know resigning own players is easier on it then bringing another.
What do they need? EF for back up is expensive. What's Grants number?
18mm is too for a player off the bench?
Pretty sad that we signed EF to be the starting SG and he's like 5th on the depth chart at this point. Shoots 40% from three but so bad otherwise he's unplayable.
Nalod wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:Trade Evan and his expiring to Boston in a ST for Grant Williams and give them two second rounders or on a smaller deal using the TPE. Talent acquisition is great Incase of a future bigger deal. Better to have Grant Williams to trade then Evan.
What's Boston's cap look like? I know resigning own players is easier on it then bringing another.
What do they need? EF for back up is expensive. What's Grants number?
18mm is too for a player off the bench?
We have that Obi TPE for like 7.5 million. Will Williams sign a deal in that range ? Then we do a sign and trade for a few seconds to Boston if not trade that for Santi Aldama
Panos wrote:Pretty sad that we signed EF to be the starting SG and he's like 5th on the depth chart at this point. Shoots 40% from three but so bad otherwise he's unplayable.
So I’m a defense first guy, and like most, I hated to see EF get beat on defense (eventhough his defensive effort has increased). But I think the problem is more about how he fits with the other starters / bench unit. Grimes has better 2 way potential and IQ is Mr Six man……So the fit is no longer there, eventhough the need for shooting is.
Plus we have enough non defenders and inconsistent shooters already, we need to balance the bad defense with good defenders like grimes or IQ next to JB.
The issue I have with the Knicks is asset management. We suck. Any player we add, feels like buying a car, where the value drops as soon as you drive offf the lot. Like the Knicks, as soon as they sign their contract, they start a major decline. And we end up giving these guys away for peanuts.
But keep you eyes on embid and Philly. If dame is traded to Miami, that might force philly to move into action, especially with all this james harden wants out rumors, coach fired and lack of playoff success. Philly might do something last minute and we need to be prepared for that.
Just the potential of a major trade or helping to facilitate a james harden trade, is worth the wait. For us it’s a win win to be patient with EF.
Alpha1971 wrote:Nalod wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:Trade Evan and his expiring to Boston in a ST for Grant Williams and give them two second rounders or on a smaller deal using the TPE. Talent acquisition is great Incase of a future bigger deal. Better to have Grant Williams to trade then Evan.
What's Boston's cap look like? I know resigning own players is easier on it then bringing another.
What do they need? EF for back up is expensive. What's Grants number?
18mm is too for a player off the bench?
We have that Obi TPE for like 7.5 million. Will Williams sign a deal in that range ? Then we do a sign and trade for a few seconds to Boston if not trade that for Santi Aldama
Maybe start asking yourself why Williams would sign that type of contract and why Boston is trading for Fournier?
martin wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:Nalod wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:Trade Evan and his expiring to Boston in a ST for Grant Williams and give them two second rounders or on a smaller deal using the TPE. Talent acquisition is great Incase of a future bigger deal. Better to have Grant Williams to trade then Evan.
What's Boston's cap look like? I know resigning own players is easier on it then bringing another.
What do they need? EF for back up is expensive. What's Grants number?
18mm is too for a player off the bench?
We have that Obi TPE for like 7.5 million. Will Williams sign a deal in that range ? Then we do a sign and trade for a few seconds to Boston if not trade that for Santi Aldama
Maybe start asking yourself why Williams would sign that type of contract and why Boston is trading for Fournier?
Williams might not get a better deal Boston will get something for nothing.
Alpha1971 wrote:martin wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:Nalod wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:Trade Evan and his expiring to Boston in a ST for Grant Williams and give them two second rounders or on a smaller deal using the TPE. Talent acquisition is great Incase of a future bigger deal. Better to have Grant Williams to trade then Evan.
What's Boston's cap look like? I know resigning own players is easier on it then bringing another.
What do they need? EF for back up is expensive. What's Grants number?
18mm is too for a player off the bench?
We have that Obi TPE for like 7.5 million. Will Williams sign a deal in that range ? Then we do a sign and trade for a few seconds to Boston if not trade that for Santi Aldama
Maybe start asking yourself why Williams would sign that type of contract and why Boston is trading for Fournier?
Williams might not get a better deal Boston will get something for nothing.
Williams is a restricted free agent.
