ekstarks94 wrote:I think they have not prioritized because of the focus on bringing in another top level talent. I think they are thinking you bring in young players there has to be spots and mins, plus Thibs is not that experimental. Then you eventually have to pay these kids. I think when they get that third piece or when they have to pay Brunson and Julius, which ever comes first, they will pivot back to the draft. This will be the fuel (cheap young talent) for the back end of the rotation of the team. This will be absolutely needed given the new cba and how much Brunson and Julius will make and their % of the cap. Then think about the new deals for Hart, then next Grimes and Hartenstein.
Right now they view picks as currency that has a lot more universal appeal than the actual player picked itself which is a “beauty in the eye of the beholder” scenario. They keep stockpiling them for this very reason.
The flaw in this approach is as they get better their own picks garner less value, at least the immediate 4-5 years. The picks further out have the appeal, but again that is banking on NY turning into a dumpster fire in the future. I think there has to be a balance because a productive young player in the middle of his first contract has more value than the FRP…but to get that value to materialize the player will need that playing time and be allowed to work their mistakes. Thibs is not the coach for that. This is whole Obi situation as they waited to long to move him and he got devalued. They rather just not make the pick.
It’s can sometimes be truly a missed opportunity.
Good points!
Knicks have been trading current year picks with their value known. I. last seasons to open up space for Brunson AND future picks. This year's a non lotto pick for Hart with the expectation that the Dallas pick would convert.
martin wrote:BRIGGS wrote:We have picked only keels the last 2 years
This years team flat out stinks.each facet of
Avenues of improvement are important and we somewhat dismissed it
We’ve acquired picks but have given up our own.
Looking back the draft picks for reddish and hart should’ve been paid w acquired assets
It’s ok but next year our player pipeline from the draft portion should be reengaged
You can’t take it too seriously though right?
You want to draft kids past 2 years and then not be able to play them? Like Obi situation?
These things actually matter or is this just a video game?
I totally agree. How many youngins it too much? Right now, we have a lot of young players that is being developed. We are the 8th youngest in the association. I think we are good right now. Next year, we can restock the cupboard.
With Dallas and our own. We most likely have 2 first rounders this coming draft and 4 2nd rounders. One of them being Detroit who which will probably be a top 5 2nd. We def need to replenish the pipeline especially from the 3-5 and have the coming picks to do so.
The concern for Rose so far is his ability to actually build a complete team. Not concerned at all about his ability to add to the pipeline.
martin wrote:Caseloads wrote:martin wrote:Caseloads wrote:Clean wrote:martin wrote:
I wonder why he left out the protections on the picks we got back. Could it be because they are so bad that those picks might aswell be considered 2nd round picks? I'll see myself out again.
We gave up a lotto pick that could have been Jslen Wiiliams for cap space
FFS
Cap space so we could sign who Case?
Literally this is endless dip-shittery. Stop being a dipshit
Brunson, who is an amazing top 25 player. However, Jalen Williams is a top 60 player, and frankly may be better than RJ, Obi, Quick, or Grimes. The Jalen Williams could be a true 3rd option over the other guys we have now.
We could have dumped Cam instead of the pick for cap space and gotten Jalen Williams (who is also better than Josh Hart)
I can't respect that opinion, it's just made up nonsense.
dude's talking about having a "true 3rd option" but we used that asset to procure a true FIRST option. I dont get it
I don’t criticize what the team has done because they wanted to give Grimes, IQ, RJ, and Toppin all the time they needed to develop, and they expected that the Mavs pick would have conveyed, which unfortunately did not happen. However, we have to get some quality rookies in the pipeline next year. Absent us using the picks to get a superstar, the Knicks need to draft at least one player in the top-20 next year, and we preferably should try to have two 1st round picks next year.
martin wrote:BRIGGS wrote:We have picked only keels the last 2 years
This years team flat out stinks.each facet of
Avenues of improvement are important and we somewhat dismissed it
We’ve acquired picks but have given up our own.
Looking back the draft picks for reddish and hart should’ve been paid w acquired assets
It’s ok but next year our player pipeline from the draft portion should be reengaged
You can’t take it too seriously though right?
You want to draft kids past 2 years and then not be able to play them? Like Obi situation?
These things actually matter or is this just a video game?
Not sure if it will work but not really passing/forfeiting the drafts but pushing the picks out and that gets you back to the question of which is a better trade asset?
- mediocre kid you pick this year or
- mediocre pick you push into future
I think most experts say the minute most teams value the unused pick higher. You could argue but what if you pass on a good player but flip side is what if you draft a bust.
Given Knicks current solid roster, likelihood Thibs won’t give new kid any minutes and we are trying to accumulate assets for bigger star I like having the extra picks in the bank vs kid sitting on bench.
Clean wrote:martin wrote:
I wonder why he left out the protections on the picks we got back. Could it be because they are so bad that those picks might aswell be considered 2nd round picks? I'll see myself out again.
They are still 1st round picks and Knicks as 5th seed in East wouldn’t be any high pick either. If you consider picks we gave up you should assume we’d get back protected picks. The examples of the 2 kids picked in our slot is striking and give me the future pick assets vs those 2.
martin wrote:Caseloads wrote:martin wrote:Caseloads wrote:Clean wrote:martin wrote:
I wonder why he left out the protections on the picks we got back. Could it be because they are so bad that those picks might aswell be considered 2nd round picks? I'll see myself out again.
We gave up a lotto pick that could have been Jslen Wiiliams for cap space
FFS
Cap space so we could sign who Case?
Literally this is endless dip-shittery. Stop being a dipshit
Brunson, who is an amazing top 25 player. However, Jalen Williams is a top 60 player, and frankly may be better than RJ, Obi, Quick, or Grimes. The Jalen Williams could be a true 3rd option over the other guys we have now.
We could have dumped Cam instead of the pick for cap space and gotten Jalen Williams (who is also better than Josh Hart)
I can't respect that opinion, it's just made up nonsense.
I do like Jalen Williams but Knicks would have picked him if they wanted him - no?
newyorknewyork wrote:With Dallas and our own. We most likely have 2 first rounders this coming draft and 4 2nd rounders. One of them being Detroit who which will probably be a top 5 2nd. We def need to replenish the pipeline especially from the 3-5 and have the coming picks to do so. The concern for Rose so far is his ability to actually build a complete team. Not concerned at all about his ability to add to the pipeline.
Is the team not young, solid and deep? Sure there are some moves I’d like back but for the most part Rose has us in great position on/off the court in terms of roster/future assets.
Kind of amazing where we’ve come from - Oblivion to stable situation yet so many so dissatisfied.
LivingLegend wrote:martin wrote:Caseloads wrote:martin wrote:Caseloads wrote:Clean wrote:martin wrote:
I wonder why he left out the protections on the picks we got back. Could it be because they are so bad that those picks might aswell be considered 2nd round picks? I'll see myself out again.
We gave up a lotto pick that could have been Jslen Wiiliams for cap space
FFS
Cap space so we could sign who Case?
Literally this is endless dip-shittery. Stop being a dipshit
Brunson, who is an amazing top 25 player. However, Jalen Williams is a top 60 player, and frankly may be better than RJ, Obi, Quick, or Grimes. The Jalen Williams could be a true 3rd option over the other guys we have now.
We could have dumped Cam instead of the pick for cap space and gotten Jalen Williams (who is also better than Josh Hart)
I can't respect that opinion, it's just made up nonsense.
I do like Jalen Williams but Knicks would have picked him if they wanted him - no?
they missed out. he's a real one
Knicks literally had too many guys on the bench like Reddish and Obi and yet we wanted more young draft kids to sit next to them and not get minutes?
Having MORE of those draftee guys next to our already young guys... so that we can complain the new young guys are getting literally ZERO playing time? And then waste a rookie contract year?
Someone tell me how it's a good idea to have too many young guys sitting on the bench while the other guys were fighting to just get into the 9 man rotation?
Also, McBride and Jericho would like more minutes. Not for nothing, but IQ and Grimes would like more too.
NEED NEW, SHINY OBJECT TO LOOK AT. OFFSEASON BORING. MORE DRAMA PLEASE.
LivingLegend wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:With Dallas and our own. We most likely have 2 first rounders this coming draft and 4 2nd rounders. One of them being Detroit who which will probably be a top 5 2nd. We def need to replenish the pipeline especially from the 3-5 and have the coming picks to do so. The concern for Rose so far is his ability to actually build a complete team. Not concerned at all about his ability to add to the pipeline.
Is the team not young, solid and deep? Sure there are some moves I’d like back but for the most part Rose has us in great position on/off the court in terms of roster/future assets.
Kind of amazing where we’ve come from - Oblivion to stable situation yet so many so dissatisfied.
Think you should read what I wrote over again.
martin wrote:Knicks literally had too many guys on the bench like Reddish and Obi and yet we wanted more young draft kids to sit next to them and not get minutes?Having MORE of those draftee guys next to our already young guys... so that we can complain the new young guys are getting literally ZERO playing time? And then waste a rookie contract year?
Someone tell me how it's a good idea to have too many young guys sitting on the bench while the other guys were fighting to just get into the 9 man rotation?
Also, McBride and Jericho would like more minutes. Not for nothing, but IQ and Grimes would like more too.
NEED NEW, SHINY OBJECT TO LOOK AT. OFFSEASON BORING. MORE DRAMA PLEASE.
You are right
Not enough minutes. But if we had Jalen Williams, would we need DDV or Hart?
Jalen is better than Grimes.
Ddv is an 8th/9th man; jalen is better than that
• 1st from DET that's protected 1-18 in 2024, 1-13 in '25, 1-11 in '26, 1-9 in 2027.
May convey in 2027. I would be stunned if Detroit is that good in 3 to 4 years. Their starting lineup is getting toasted in summer league
• 1st from WAS that's protected 1-12 in ‘24, 1-10 in '25, 1-8 in ‘26.
May convey in 2027. I would be stunned if washington is that good in 3 years. Their draft picks are getting toasted in summer league
• 2025 1st from MIL protected 1-4
Likely will convey
Caseloads wrote:• 1st from DET that's protected 1-18 in 2024, 1-13 in '25, 1-11 in '26, 1-9 in 2027. May convey in 2027. I would be stunned if Detroit is that good in 3 to 4 years. Their starting lineup is getting toasted in summer league
• 1st from WAS that's protected 1-12 in ‘24, 1-10 in '25, 1-8 in ‘26.
May convey in 2027. I would be stunned if washington is that good in 3 years. Their draft picks are getting toasted in summer league
• 2025 1st from MIL protected 1-4
Likely will convey
Bucks will likely be the end of the first round; unlikely lotto pick
Not concerned about the FO not looking for answers in the draft. We have plenty of good, young, players. Its Thibs scattershot approach to development that is more of a concern to me.
Even though Grimes played like a starter to end the regular season. He did little to nothing to deserve to start as soon as he did. Ive sung his praises as much as anyone else, but he wasnt ready.
IQ can play SG and PG better than Grimes, but IQ is the one we keep hearing in trade scenarios. Already covered Obi, and the lack of PT. Even though he put up starter numbers almost every time he was given the opportunity. Most bench players cant do that. Not with so little playing time over 3 seasons.
Thibs had been great in the culture change dept, but he still needs work in making adjustments. From the rotation, to PT.
Caseloads wrote:martin wrote:Knicks literally had too many guys on the bench like Reddish and Obi and yet we wanted more young draft kids to sit next to them and not get minutes?Having MORE of those draftee guys next to our already young guys... so that we can complain the new young guys are getting literally ZERO playing time? And then waste a rookie contract year?
Someone tell me how it's a good idea to have too many young guys sitting on the bench while the other guys were fighting to just get into the 9 man rotation?
Also, McBride and Jericho would like more minutes. Not for nothing, but IQ and Grimes would like more too.
NEED NEW, SHINY OBJECT TO LOOK AT. OFFSEASON BORING. MORE DRAMA PLEASE.
You are right
Not enough minutes. But if we had Jalen Williams, would we need DDV or Hart?
Jalen is better than Grimes.
Ddv is an 8th/9th man; jalen is better than that
Missing on Jalen really hurt. I get what Martin means about the surplus of young guys but we need to upgrade when given the chance. We are signing great bench guys in DD and Hart but skipping over high level talent at the same time (rather prior and as you said, would we have done those moves.) I‘d much rather have Williams starting and Grimes off the bench than Hart or DD.
Our front office is very conservative re trades but a bit blind with spotting talent in the lotto.
Looking fwd to this team. We will be very very good but what could have been.
newyorknewyork wrote:LivingLegend wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:With Dallas and our own. We most likely have 2 first rounders this coming draft and 4 2nd rounders. One of them being Detroit who which will probably be a top 5 2nd. We def need to replenish the pipeline especially from the 3-5 and have the coming picks to do so. The concern for Rose so far is his ability to actually build a complete team. Not concerned at all about his ability to add to the pipeline.
Is the team not young, solid and deep? Sure there are some moves I’d like back but for the most part Rose has us in great position on/off the court in terms of roster/future assets.
Kind of amazing where we’ve come from - Oblivion to stable situation yet so many so dissatisfied.
Think you should read what I wrote over again.
Yeah - I quoted wrong post 
