Knicks · Jaylen Martin - is he a real prospect? (page 1)

Trying to decide if this kid is a real prospect. I see a lot of potential but I also see a lot that he needs to work on. I guess it depends on how much work he is willing to do to develop his game. He has looked decent in summer league play.

Until I see the defense, its hard to tell. Grimes defense stood out immediately. That's the thing that buys minutes early. No combine stats to peruse either. 6'6 with a reported 6'll wingspan at 19 years old. Solid biometric size at the guard position. Seems to have solid footwork but I didn't see any explosive athleticism. His shot off the pass seemed pretty efficient. At 19, I like him on a two way contract. Higher upside than Keels. Let the staff muscle him up a little like they did with IQ. I think he has a chance. Good prospect.

I hope so. Betting on an undrafted rookie is tough but we need something in the pipeline.

He certainly can defend and will bring effort - for him I think it’s all about developing a jump shot 1) off the dribble and 2) 3 point range.

Also not sure on how well he understands the game - everything he’s getting in summer league seems to be off hustle and or simply trying to put his head down and get to the rim.

I get what you're saying but think it is misguided. He should simply be treated as a legit prospect

We do not have any blue chippers. So, with that in mind, we should be pretty thorough and patient with what we got. History has shown us that sometimes it just takes time. Look at Bruce Bowen or Jeremy Lin. I'm not saying that we have anyone on the SL roster that compares to either or will become one of them. What I am saying though, is we should treat everyone on the team like they could be that, because there is no excuse to let a no name who can ball slip through our fingers

I think he'll be a legit "prospect" in a year. He has legit holes in his game, but I like the aggressiveness. To be honest, it's hard to change anyone when Trevor Keels is your point guard.

BigDaddyG wrote:I think he'll be a legit "prospect" in a year. He has legit holes in his game, but I like the aggressiveness. To be honest, it's hard to change anyone when Trevor Keels is your point guard.

I agree. Playing with smart vets and a PG like JB, he might look like a promising future star or solid rotation player. But Keels is a combo guard who doesn't make others better, from what I'm seeing. And the SL team is suffering from not having a legit PG.

came across this:

“New Knick Jaylen Martin missed about two months of the 2022-23 Overtime Elite season with a hamstring injury.

Before he got hurt, Martin established himself as one of the program’s best players.

“At the start of the year, Jaylen was at the top, (one of) the top three guys in OTE,” Martin’s coach, Tim Fanning, said. “Obviously, the Thompsons were up there. But I thought that he was really trending spectacularly upwards on both ends – on offense, on defense.”

Martin’s injury likely impacted his draft status. But Knicks fans should be encouraged by Fanning’s assessment. The aforementioned Thompsons – twins Amen and Ausar – were selected in the top five of the 2023 NBA Draft.

New York signed Martin after the draft to a two-way contract. You’d think that there was a wide gap between a top-five pick and an undrafted free agent. But based on Fanning’s assessment, you shouldn’t judge Martin by his status on draft night.

“He just ticks a lot of boxes in terms of what you want from a basketball player, especially on the wing,” Fanning said. “He was shooting the ball at a great clip from three. His defense and rebounding - his floor game – was spectacular. His transition, (attacking the) close out, also was on another level from the rest of the competition outside of the Thompsons in that first month of the season.”

Martin, 19, averaged 14 points and 5.9 rebounds per game. Before the hamstring injury, Martin had 27 points, 14 rebounds and three assists in the YNG Dreamers’ win over the Falcons. Martin, a 6-6 wing, enters Summer League with the Knicks fully healthy. Fanning believes Martin will only get better in an NBA setting.

“He can play off the ball. He’s really good spacing the floor. He’s really good moving without the ball. He understands spaces more than the typical 19-year-old American player,” Fanning said. “I see this guy stepping on the court and potentially being a really exciting and productive piece to a team.”

The Knicks watched Martin extensively during his stint at OTE. Martin entered the OTE program after starring at Florida High, which was coached by former Knick Charlie Ward.

Fanning said Martin’s approach to the game was advanced for his age.

“I think every time he stepped in the building, he carried himself and had a mentality that this is something that I want. I want to play professional basketball. I want to play at the highest level,” Fanning said. “He was up there with the best of them in terms of his consistency with his work ethic, his consistency with his day-to-day emotional intelligence. The guy gets along with everybody. He has a great balance of being a great person and then when he steps on the court, he’s tough as nails. That’s a pro skill in my opinion.”

Martin earned OTE’s first Valedictorian distinction when he graduated from high school. He also took classes at Morehouse College, which is near the OTE facility in Atlanta.

“He’s a little bit of an outlier in his approach to things,” Fanning said. “He was a guy that was constantly hungry for watching film. He’s got a great head on his shoulders, he’s going to do everything possible to make that roster and come out there and fight his way for a spot. I have no doubt about that.”

https://www.sny.tv/articles/knicks-jayle...

BigDaddyG wrote:I think he'll be a legit "prospect" in a year. He has legit holes in his game, but I like the aggressiveness. To be honest, it's hard to change anyone when Trevor Keels is your point guard.

Can we trade Trevor Keels for two "least desirable" second round picks?
My ass still stinging over the Obi deal, if you haven't noticed.

Panos wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:I think he'll be a legit "prospect" in a year. He has legit holes in his game, but I like the aggressiveness. To be honest, it's hard to change anyone when Trevor Keels is your point guard.

Can we trade Trevor Keels for two "least desirable" second round picks?
My ass still stinging over the Obi deal, if you haven't noticed.

I've made my peace with it. What was the other option? A first rounder so heavily protected that it was going to convey to two shitty seconds anyway? It's done and, sadly, we wasted Obi's value over the years. I'm more concerned about the fact that Jason Hart is looking like he'll be out backup 4 going into the season.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Panos wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:I think he'll be a legit "prospect" in a year. He has legit holes in his game, but I like the aggressiveness. To be honest, it's hard to change anyone when Trevor Keels is your point guard.

Can we trade Trevor Keels for two "least desirable" second round picks?
My ass still stinging over the Obi deal, if you haven't noticed.

I've made my peace with it. What was the other option? A first rounder so heavily protected that it was going to convey to two shitty seconds anyway? It's done and, sadly, we wasted Obi's value over the years. I'm more concerned about the fact that Jason Hart is looking like he'll be out backup 4 going into the season.

I’m more concerned about our current rotation and which players value will decrease from it.

"Keels Hate' - rolls right off the tongue.

blkexec wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Panos wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:I think he'll be a legit "prospect" in a year. He has legit holes in his game, but I like the aggressiveness. To be honest, it's hard to change anyone when Trevor Keels is your point guard.

Can we trade Trevor Keels for two "least desirable" second round picks?
My ass still stinging over the Obi deal, if you haven't noticed.

I've made my peace with it. What was the other option? A first rounder so heavily protected that it was going to convey to two shitty seconds anyway? It's done and, sadly, we wasted Obi's value over the years. I'm more concerned about the fact that Jason Hart is looking like he'll be out backup 4 going into the season.

I’m more concerned about our current rotation and which players value will decrease from it.

Out goes Obi. In comes DD. Please.. do elaborate on your concerns with our current rotation and who is losing value

KnickDanger wrote:"Keels Hate' - rolls right off the tongue.

Does it roll as smoothly as he does when you push him down a hill?

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Panos wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:I think he'll be a legit "prospect" in a year. He has legit holes in his game, but I like the aggressiveness. To be honest, it's hard to change anyone when Trevor Keels is your point guard.

Can we trade Trevor Keels for two "least desirable" second round picks?
My ass still stinging over the Obi deal, if you haven't noticed.

I've made my peace with it. What was the other option? A first rounder so heavily protected that it was going to convey to two shitty seconds anyway? It's done and, sadly, we wasted Obi's value over the years. I'm more concerned about the fact that Jason Hart is looking like he'll be out backup 4 going into the season.

I’m more concerned about our current rotation and which players value will decrease from it.

Out goes Obi. In comes DD. Please.. do elaborate on your concerns with our current rotation and who is losing value

Unless DDV can play power forward, then theres no worries. If not, we are crowed at the guard position. Unless you are smoking whatever Nalod is smoking I'm sure you know this already, but I'll play along since you asked.

PG: JB 35 | IQ 13 (IQ averaged 29 mins last season)
SG: QG 30 | DDV 18 (Grimes averaged 30 and was a starter last season) + (DDV averaged 26 last season which is more than 18) = Grimes or DDV will play less minutes which impacts their value.
SF: RJ 34 | Hart 14 (RJ averaged 34)
PF: JR 35.5 | Hart 12.5 (Hart averaged 30 mins last season)
C: MR 27 | iHart 21

If you include McBride, Thibs has to force 11 guys into a 9 man rotation.
McBride and somebody else will either not play or lose significant mins with DDV on board. Whoever that player is (outside of McBride), their stock will be impacted.
Hart or RJ plays PF which is not their normal position. One of them may get exposed as a backup PF and their stock will be impacted.

Trying to decide if this kid is a real prospect.

At 19, with his size, build and experience, he's definitely a legit prospect. There's just no room in our 9 man rotation.

Prior to his injury, he was coached by Charlie Ward and was identified as one of the top players in the OTE program. So right now, his value is super high because of his age. Good player to develop or use as a trade.

blkexec wrote:

Trying to decide if this kid is a real prospect.

At 19, with his size, build and experience, he's definitely a legit prospect. There's just no room in our 9 man rotation.

Prior to his injury, he was coached by Charlie Ward and was identified as one of the top players in the OTE program. So right now, his value is super high because of his age. Good player to develop or use as a trade.

I agree. Will also add that OTE hasn't really impressed me much in terms of player development. Jean Montero, who was also highly touted coming in, looked years behind his college counterpoints. I think even the Thompson twins would've been better off going to college. Even the G-League.

BigDaddyG wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:"Keels Hate' - rolls right off the tongue.

Does it roll as smoothly as he does when you push him down a hill?

I think you’d have multiple volunteers to find out!

blkexec wrote:

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Panos wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:I think he'll be a legit "prospect" in a year. He has legit holes in his game, but I like the aggressiveness. To be honest, it's hard to change anyone when Trevor Keels is your point guard.

Can we trade Trevor Keels for two "least desirable" second round picks?
My ass still stinging over the Obi deal, if you haven't noticed.

I've made my peace with it. What was the other option? A first rounder so heavily protected that it was going to convey to two shitty seconds anyway? It's done and, sadly, we wasted Obi's value over the years. I'm more concerned about the fact that Jason Hart is looking like he'll be out backup 4 going into the season.

I’m more concerned about our current rotation and which players value will decrease from it.

Out goes Obi. In comes DD. Please.. do elaborate on your concerns with our current rotation and who is losing value

Unless DDV can play power forward, then theres no worries. If not, we are crowed at the guard position. Unless you are smoking whatever Nalod is smoking I'm sure you know this already, but I'll play along since you asked.

PG: JB 35 | IQ 13 (IQ averaged 29 mins last season)
SG: QG 30 | DDV 18 (Grimes averaged 30 and was a starter last season) + (DDV averaged 26 last season which is more than 18) = Grimes or DDV will play less minutes which impacts their value.
SF: RJ 34 | Hart 14 (RJ averaged 34)
PF: JR 35.5 | Hart 12.5 (Hart averaged 30 mins last season)
C: MR 27 | iHart 21

If you include McBride, Thibs has to force 11 guys into a 9 man rotation.
McBride and somebody else will either not play or lose significant mins with DDV on board. Whoever that player is (outside of McBride), their stock will be impacted.
Hart or RJ plays PF which is not their normal position. One of them may get exposed as a backup PF and their stock will be impacted.

Team like Miami only mostly had Love Bam at their big positions and did OK.

More than enough teams run small ball at times and effectively with the right type of personnel and the Knicks have that in RJ Hart DDV who are all good rebounding guards.

Big lineup opponent? You run iHart and some Jericho for a hot minute.

I’m guessing the Venn diagram of those posters who screamed about wanting to run small ball with Obi are a full circle overlap of those bedwetting that the Knicks don’t have a backup PF and need to use Hart or RJ at that position with the bench rotation alongside iHart.

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Panos wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:I think he'll be a legit "prospect" in a year. He has legit holes in his game, but I like the aggressiveness. To be honest, it's hard to change anyone when Trevor Keels is your point guard.

Can we trade Trevor Keels for two "least desirable" second round picks?
My ass still stinging over the Obi deal, if you haven't noticed.

I've made my peace with it. What was the other option? A first rounder so heavily protected that it was going to convey to two shitty seconds anyway? It's done and, sadly, we wasted Obi's value over the years. I'm more concerned about the fact that Jason Hart is looking like he'll be out backup 4 going into the season.

I’m more concerned about our current rotation and which players value will decrease from it.

Out goes Obi. In comes DD. Please.. do elaborate on your concerns with our current rotation and who is losing value

Unless DDV can play power forward, then theres no worries. If not, we are crowed at the guard position. Unless you are smoking whatever Nalod is smoking I'm sure you know this already, but I'll play along since you asked.

PG: JB 35 | IQ 13 (IQ averaged 29 mins last season)
SG: QG 30 | DDV 18 (Grimes averaged 30 and was a starter last season) + (DDV averaged 26 last season which is more than 18) = Grimes or DDV will play less minutes which impacts their value.
SF: RJ 34 | Hart 14 (RJ averaged 34)
PF: JR 35.5 | Hart 12.5 (Hart averaged 30 mins last season)
C: MR 27 | iHart 21

If you include McBride, Thibs has to force 11 guys into a 9 man rotation.
McBride and somebody else will either not play or lose significant mins with DDV on board. Whoever that player is (outside of McBride), their stock will be impacted.
Hart or RJ plays PF which is not their normal position. One of them may get exposed as a backup PF and their stock will be impacted.

Team like Miami only mostly had Love Bam at their big positions and did OK.

More than enough teams run small ball at times and effectively with the right type of personnel and the Knicks have that in RJ Hart DDV who are all good rebounding guards.

Big lineup opponent? You run iHart and some Jericho for a hot minute.

I’m guessing the Venn diagram of those posters who screamed about wanting to run small ball with Obi are a full circle overlap of those bedwetting that the Knicks don’t have a backup PF and need to use Hart or RJ at that position with the bench rotation alongside iHart.

That other part of that argument is Thibs has to be willing to go small. I'm not saying you can't teach an old dog new tricks. But I have to see it to believe it. Also, were not particularly lengthy to begin with. It was a problem this past season and it got worse.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Panos wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:I think he'll be a legit "prospect" in a year. He has legit holes in his game, but I like the aggressiveness. To be honest, it's hard to change anyone when Trevor Keels is your point guard.

Can we trade Trevor Keels for two "least desirable" second round picks?
My ass still stinging over the Obi deal, if you haven't noticed.

I've made my peace with it. What was the other option? A first rounder so heavily protected that it was going to convey to two shitty seconds anyway? It's done and, sadly, we wasted Obi's value over the years. I'm more concerned about the fact that Jason Hart is looking like he'll be out backup 4 going into the season.

Did we sign yet another Hart that I didn't know about?