Knicks · EvanF (page 2)

Some deals work out some don't. Every move is a calculated risk. Rose made some bad choices but nothing catastrophic that has held the team back. Randal is all NBA, and Brunson is all NBA to come. A team with two NBA talents is something we couldn't envision a few years ago. Plus we did great with IQ and Grimes where they were picked. You win some and you lose some. Team this offseason didn't replicate that failed offseason by making too many moves overreacting to a play off loss. Team rolls into the season with a TPE,an expiring 18 million contract, a boatload of second rounders and first rounders, and players with large, medium, and small contracts to make smaller, medium, or a big trade. We are in good shape

Alpha1971 wrote:Some deals work out some don't. Every move is a calculated risk. Rose made some bad choices but nothing catastrophic that has held the team back. Randal is all NBA, and Brunson is all NBA to come. A team with two NBA talents is something we couldn't envision a few years ago. Plus we did great with IQ and Grimes where they were picked. You win some and you lose some. Team this offseason didn't replicate that failed offseason by making too many moves overreacting to a play off loss. Team rolls into the season with a TPE,an expiring 18 million contract, a boatload of second rounders and first rounders, and players with large, medium, and small contracts to make smaller, medium, or a big trade. We are in good shape

i'm going to disagree, not many GMS inherit a Randle, RJ, Mitch, Marcus Morris, Bullock Portis, a number 8 pick, all other picks, two dallas picks and turned into Kemba, Rose, Fournier, Noel, picked Obi over a PG.
And to recall things he attempted to trade Randle but teams wanted Leon to include a pick hence not trade, He just last deadline wanted to trade IQ for a protected or late first, again got lucky it didn't happen.
Jalen was imo complete luck, Dallas messed up big time when his dad actually pleaded for them to extend him for 12m, oops! I can on but I'm not a fan of this FO to date, they even messed up getting a player who wanted to be here in Donovan Mitchell, and by rumor all they had to do was take one protected pick say Bucks and turn it into a non protected pick, and right now those picks aren't far apart if projecting 2025.

I think this FO failed there first go around because the players named well they either walked or we had to add to get rid of them to have cap for Brunny. Even if we want to give them credit for the Jalen signing and not trading Randle, well i'll go with what they do in next or in the near future will be how we judge them.

As far as IQ, great draft pick love the kid, lets see how we handle him since almost letting him go for a protected, but some could say hey Leon left Bane on the table,right?
Grimes is great, I see him as H2O but plays defense, but now we need to see how Thibs will utilize him with both Hart and DD here.

There are FO advocates for the Knicks, nothing i've read all over so far has changed my mind, till further notice.

stillafan wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:Some deals work out some don't. Every move is a calculated risk. Rose made some bad choices but nothing catastrophic that has held the team back. Randal is all NBA, and Brunson is all NBA to come. A team with two NBA talents is something we couldn't envision a few years ago. Plus we did great with IQ and Grimes where they were picked. You win some and you lose some. Team this offseason didn't replicate that failed offseason by making too many moves overreacting to a play off loss. Team rolls into the season with a TPE,an expiring 18 million contract, a boatload of second rounders and first rounders, and players with large, medium, and small contracts to make smaller, medium, or a big trade. We are in good shape

i'm going to disagree, not many GMS inherit a Randle, RJ, Mitch, Marcus Morris, Bullock Portis, a number 8 pick, all other picks, two dallas picks and turned into Kemba, Rose, Fournier, Noel, picked Obi over a PG.
And to recall things he attempted to trade Randle but teams wanted Leon to include a pick hence not trade, He just last deadline wanted to trade IQ for a protected or late first, again got lucky it didn't happen.
Jalen was imo complete luck, Dallas messed up big time when his dad actually pleaded for them to extend him for 12m, oops! I can on but I'm not a fan of this FO to date, they even messed up getting a player who wanted to be here in Donovan Mitchell, and by rumor all they had to do was take one protected pick say Bucks and turn it into a non protected pick, and right now those picks aren't far apart if projecting 2025.

I think this FO failed there first go around because the players named well they either walked or we had to add to get rid of them to have cap for Brunny. Even if we want to give them credit for the Jalen signing and not trading Randle, well i'll go with what they do in next or in the near future will be how we judge them.

As far as IQ, great draft pick love the kid, lets see how we handle him since almost letting him go for a protected, but some could say hey Leon left Bane on the table,right?
Grimes is great, I see him as H2O but plays defense, but now we need to see how Thibs will utilize him with both Hart and DD here.

There are FO advocates for the Knicks, nothing i've read all over so far has changed my mind, till further notice.

Fandom takes many forms. I will leave issues from several seasons ago in the past at this point.

If Rose messed up badly enough should he have been fired at this point is what some critics are arguing ? I don't know if that's the argument. Rose and crew have not been perfect for sure. Yet, what if they were fired the last two season and a new GM hired, could the team have gone in better directions, maybe. Could have also gone in a much worse direction. On balance I will say team is better with the continuity of the front office and philosophy they are trying to implement. Not a perfect front office and not a perfect coach for sure. But on balance been more successful then what we have had in decades. This is my take, and by no means does that mean I think Rose and staff are beyond criticism. But for me they haven't done anything they should have been fired over.

Back to Evan for a second. Does it look like he got that hairline tattoo procedure ? Where they tattoo short hair stubble ?

Leon has done a good job to this point. He didnt blow up the roster as soon as he took the job, so he could put his own stamp on it. An ego move like Isiah's. Rose built on the work of the previous regime. Stockpiled draft picks. Made some very good draft picks, didnt go for the quick fix. Made a big FA signing in Brunson.

If Rose had gone the other route we could be back to the bad old days. Capped out, few picks, with a squad of aging stars, and little else. So overall Im pleased that we made the second round, have plenty of assets, and picks to work into any deal to upgrade the roster.

At the same time, the rest of the East (nevermind the West) arent staying in place. As Ive mentioned before, Randle plays at a very high clip, and he has a lot of miles on the odometer, so to speak. Brunson takes a lot of hits, at some point its going to likely slow him down. Injuries, missed games.

I believe Leon is still working the phones. I dont believe he wants to be done yet, but doesnt want to make a big move, just to make a big move.

But at some point its going to be a case of "sh#t or get off the pot". I'm all for caution, but I believe another upgrade is important. If not now then during the season. I do believe Grimes, Quick will get better, but we still need more help. Hopefully a clutch playoff performer.

stillafan wrote:
There are FO advocates for the Knicks, nothing i've read all over so far has changed my mind, till further notice.

What about making the second round of the playoffs and potentially having 6 first round picks over the next two drafts?

Seems like the franchise is in the best position it's been in over 20 years.

gradyandrew wrote:

stillafan wrote:
There are FO advocates for the Knicks, nothing i've read all over so far has changed my mind, till further notice.

What about making the second round of the playoffs and potentially having 6 first round picks over the next two drafts?

Seems like the franchise is in the best position it's been in over 20 years.

And Brunson, Randle, and RJ on reasonable contracts and a load of young players on the ascent. I think you can see the positive without being in denial. Kemba, Fournier...ugh. Brunson Yeah baby. IHart, JHart, hopefully DD uh huh. I see the moves around cap space and draft capital as very savvy. And man, go back just a few years and objectively see how far the team has come.

Nothing wrong with pointing out the negatives but so much more to be hopeful about now. I know as Knicks fans we're waiting for the other shoe to drop. But Isaiah is out west tearing down another organization now.

Alpha1971 wrote:

stillafan wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:Some deals work out some don't. Every move is a calculated risk. Rose made some bad choices but nothing catastrophic that has held the team back. Randal is all NBA, and Brunson is all NBA to come. A team with two NBA talents is something we couldn't envision a few years ago. Plus we did great with IQ and Grimes where they were picked. You win some and you lose some. Team this offseason didn't replicate that failed offseason by making too many moves overreacting to a play off loss. Team rolls into the season with a TPE,an expiring 18 million contract, a boatload of second rounders and first rounders, and players with large, medium, and small contracts to make smaller, medium, or a big trade. We are in good shape

i'm going to disagree, not many GMS inherit a Randle, RJ, Mitch, Marcus Morris, Bullock Portis, a number 8 pick, all other picks, two dallas picks and turned into Kemba, Rose, Fournier, Noel, picked Obi over a PG.
And to recall things he attempted to trade Randle but teams wanted Leon to include a pick hence not trade, He just last deadline wanted to trade IQ for a protected or late first, again got lucky it didn't happen.
Jalen was imo complete luck, Dallas messed up big time when his dad actually pleaded for them to extend him for 12m, oops! I can on but I'm not a fan of this FO to date, they even messed up getting a player who wanted to be here in Donovan Mitchell, and by rumor all they had to do was take one protected pick say Bucks and turn it into a non protected pick, and right now those picks aren't far apart if projecting 2025.

I think this FO failed there first go around because the players named well they either walked or we had to add to get rid of them to have cap for Brunny. Even if we want to give them credit for the Jalen signing and not trading Randle, well i'll go with what they do in next or in the near future will be how we judge them.

As far as IQ, great draft pick love the kid, lets see how we handle him since almost letting him go for a protected, but some could say hey Leon left Bane on the table,right?
Grimes is great, I see him as H2O but plays defense, but now we need to see how Thibs will utilize him with both Hart and DD here.

There are FO advocates for the Knicks, nothing i've read all over so far has changed my mind, till further notice.

Fandom takes many forms. I will leave issues from several seasons ago in the past at this point.

i wish I could but most recently didn't we have to trade our #13 pick unload contracts to simply have the cap we had when they first got here? It's like inherenting money then it's spent poorly, then it's I'll leave the past behind?

In the NBA you imo can't do that because how you got to B, A had to happen, now we are up to C, and that is the test. If A and B didn't happen there would be no C?

I'm not young and I was taught a long time ago, the past is only good if you learn from, i'm still of the opinion till further notice. But i'm also ok that being lucky is good lol, we are now projected a playoff team, so all is not lost.

And if you can leave the past in the past, I think that's great, my mind just dont' function like that, I forgive but don't forget, it's the process of learning.

the other side is denial, well that is a completely different story lol, hopefully that dont' apply to our FO and we learned from the DM miss etc.

Alpha1971 wrote:If Rose messed up badly enough should he have been fired at this point is what some critics are arguing ? I don't know if that's the argument. Rose and crew have not been perfect for sure. Yet, what if they were fired the last two season and a new GM hired, could the team have gone in better directions, maybe. Could have also gone in a much worse direction. On balance I will say team is better with the continuity of the front office and philosophy they are trying to implement. Not a perfect front office and not a perfect coach for sure. But on balance been more successful then what we have had in decades. This is my take, and by no means does that mean I think Rose and staff are beyond criticism. But for me they haven't done anything they should have been fired over.

I actually stated my opinion, they were horrible from the start, but call it whatever, skill, luck don't care, we have a productive Randle, Jalen and more so fire them, absolutely not, unless your an owner that measures thing (Dolan don't) or have a crystal ball, I think they warranted at least the next move and lets see how we do this season.

I'm curious how fans feel what would not be successful this season? We made it to the second round we lost Obi, added DD, so if we don't at min go to the second round is that not a successful season?

I have a lot of takes on this lol, but i'll take a step back for others input.

stillafan wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:Some deals work out some don't. Every move is a calculated risk. Rose made some bad choices but nothing catastrophic that has held the team back. Randal is all NBA, and Brunson is all NBA to come. A team with two NBA talents is something we couldn't envision a few years ago. Plus we did great with IQ and Grimes where they were picked. You win some and you lose some. Team this offseason didn't replicate that failed offseason by making too many moves overreacting to a play off loss. Team rolls into the season with a TPE,an expiring 18 million contract, a boatload of second rounders and first rounders, and players with large, medium, and small contracts to make smaller, medium, or a big trade. We are in good shape

i'm going to disagree, not many GMS inherit a Randle, RJ, Mitch, Marcus Morris, Bullock Portis, a number 8 pick, all other picks, two dallas picks and turned into Kemba, Rose, Fournier, Noel, picked Obi over a PG.
And to recall things he attempted to trade Randle but teams wanted Leon to include a pick hence not trade, He just last deadline wanted to trade IQ for a protected or late first, again got lucky it didn't happen.
Jalen was imo complete luck, Dallas messed up big time when his dad actually pleaded for them to extend him for 12m, oops! I can on but I'm not a fan of this FO to date, they even messed up getting a player who wanted to be here in Donovan Mitchell, and by rumor all they had to do was take one protected pick say Bucks and turn it into a non protected pick, and right now those picks aren't far apart if projecting 2025.

I think this FO failed there first go around because the players named well they either walked or we had to add to get rid of them to have cap for Brunny. Even if we want to give them credit for the Jalen signing and not trading Randle, well i'll go with what they do in next or in the near future will be how we judge them.

As far as IQ, great draft pick love the kid, lets see how we handle him since almost letting him go for a protected, but some could say hey Leon left Bane on the table,right?
Grimes is great, I see him as H2O but plays defense, but now we need to see how Thibs will utilize him with both Hart and DD here.

There are FO advocates for the Knicks, nothing i've read all over so far has changed my mind, till further notice.

Here is the TL;DR version: Leon inherited a 21 win team and in 2 of the 3 years the team far outperformed expectations. They have are poised to reach a 50 game season, have a rotation that is one of the youngest in the league, have signed one of the best UFA players in the last decade to one of the best vale contracts in the league (prob not a superstar but potentially really close to it), extended and sign many many core players to very team friendly contracts considering the new salary cap coming up (Randle, Jalen, RJ, Mitch), their core young players have developed very nicely (Mitch one of the best rebounders and interior defenders in league, IQ near 6MOY, Grimes one of the best POA defenders in league, Brunson put into position to shine, Randle put into position to redeem himself to 2 time all NBA), and have plenty of tradable assets to trade for a star over the next 2-3 years.

The rest of what you are saying is just a mishmash of what every other team goes through. Also, you don’t hold something against a team or player or person for something they don’t do, that is silliness.

stillafan wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:

stillafan wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:Some deals work out some don't. Every move is a calculated risk. Rose made some bad choices but nothing catastrophic that has held the team back. Randal is all NBA, and Brunson is all NBA to come. A team with two NBA talents is something we couldn't envision a few years ago. Plus we did great with IQ and Grimes where they were picked. You win some and you lose some. Team this offseason didn't replicate that failed offseason by making too many moves overreacting to a play off loss. Team rolls into the season with a TPE,an expiring 18 million contract, a boatload of second rounders and first rounders, and players with large, medium, and small contracts to make smaller, medium, or a big trade. We are in good shape

i'm going to disagree, not many GMS inherit a Randle, RJ, Mitch, Marcus Morris, Bullock Portis, a number 8 pick, all other picks, two dallas picks and turned into Kemba, Rose, Fournier, Noel, picked Obi over a PG.
And to recall things he attempted to trade Randle but teams wanted Leon to include a pick hence not trade, He just last deadline wanted to trade IQ for a protected or late first, again got lucky it didn't happen.
Jalen was imo complete luck, Dallas messed up big time when his dad actually pleaded for them to extend him for 12m, oops! I can on but I'm not a fan of this FO to date, they even messed up getting a player who wanted to be here in Donovan Mitchell, and by rumor all they had to do was take one protected pick say Bucks and turn it into a non protected pick, and right now those picks aren't far apart if projecting 2025.

I think this FO failed there first go around because the players named well they either walked or we had to add to get rid of them to have cap for Brunny. Even if we want to give them credit for the Jalen signing and not trading Randle, well i'll go with what they do in next or in the near future will be how we judge them.

As far as IQ, great draft pick love the kid, lets see how we handle him since almost letting him go for a protected, but some could say hey Leon left Bane on the table,right?
Grimes is great, I see him as H2O but plays defense, but now we need to see how Thibs will utilize him with both Hart and DD here.

There are FO advocates for the Knicks, nothing i've read all over so far has changed my mind, till further notice.

Fandom takes many forms. I will leave issues from several seasons ago in the past at this point.

i wish I could but most recently didn't we have to trade our #13 pick unload contracts to simply have the cap we had when they first got here? It's like inherenting money then it's spent poorly, then it's I'll leave the past behind?

In the NBA you imo can't do that because how you got to B, A had to happen, now we are up to C, and that is the test. If A and B didn't happen there would be no C?

I'm not young and I was taught a long time ago, the past is only good if you learn from, i'm still of the opinion till further notice. But i'm also ok that being lucky is good lol, we are now projected a playoff team, so all is not lost.

And if you can leave the past in the past, I think that's great, my mind just dont' function like that, I forgive but don't forget, it's the process of learning.

the other side is denial, well that is a completely different story lol, hopefully that dont' apply to our FO and we learned from the DM miss etc.

Knicks got Brunson and other first round picks for moving bench players and some trash players with some second round picks.

This would amount to a good thing.

gradyandrew wrote:

stillafan wrote:
There are FO advocates for the Knicks, nothing i've read all over so far has changed my mind, till further notice.

What about making the second round of the playoffs and potentially having 6 first round picks over the next two drafts?

Seems like the franchise is in the best position it's been in over 20 years.

This can get deep, but we all see things differently.

I'm not sure what to say this? What would you bet that we get 6 firsts in the next two drafts? Not even the Mav's is a guarantee being a top 10 protected, it looks not even as good as last year and we know how that went right? I think it convey's but not a guarantee. Pistons, top 18/13 protected? Wash who just lost Beal and KP top 12/10?

Did they not inherit over the course of the allowable 7 years all 7 picks and 2 more? We also traded a late pick for a protected pick, correct? We then traded that protected pick for Cam, correct? We then used Cam's salary to trade for Hart and included yet another first to that for a player who had 2 months left on his contract. (worked out better than anyone could predict). Because of year one fiasco we had to trade yet another first for cap space for Brunny who was not a star at the time.
We used one of the picks on Obi, and just got back 2 seconds and let me add they are the lesser of two teams's picks both of them.

So as a Knick fan i'm really not bragging about what they inherited and how they used it so far in the pick area.

As far as reaching the second round, thank you NBA other 29 teams for asking Leon to include a first for a Randle trade, since then he's been all nba 2 of three seasons, and after the first all nba his mind gave out and we again tried to trade and teams like the Lakers wanted more assets in return even just for an expiring in Westbrook.

We then at the deadline put it out there we were collecting assets for that next superstar and would trade IQ for a protected or late first........thank you again NBA for allowing us to not do that and IQ went on to have one heck of a post deadline season and his value jumped.

We are in the best position we have been in two decades, not doubt, skill or luck? Don't really care, except i'm not giving credit yet to a FO that imo has been terrible then lucky. What if Dallas had half a brain and extended Brunny? Yea I go with luck, and I'm glad to be on the side of lucky.

As I said some will be advocates for this FO because of the success, I can't based on what I typed above and a lot more including missing on DM and still today not one top FA who doesn't have ties to ny has said they want to come here.

so, so much more but lets just agree to disagree. But I'll love them to pull of some greatness moving forward!!

martin wrote:

stillafan wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:Some deals work out some don't. Every move is a calculated risk. Rose made some bad choices but nothing catastrophic that has held the team back. Randal is all NBA, and Brunson is all NBA to come. A team with two NBA talents is something we couldn't envision a few years ago. Plus we did great with IQ and Grimes where they were picked. You win some and you lose some. Team this offseason didn't replicate that failed offseason by making too many moves overreacting to a play off loss. Team rolls into the season with a TPE,an expiring 18 million contract, a boatload of second rounders and first rounders, and players with large, medium, and small contracts to make smaller, medium, or a big trade. We are in good shape

i'm going to disagree, not many GMS inherit a Randle, RJ, Mitch, Marcus Morris, Bullock Portis, a number 8 pick, all other picks, two dallas picks and turned into Kemba, Rose, Fournier, Noel, picked Obi over a PG.
And to recall things he attempted to trade Randle but teams wanted Leon to include a pick hence not trade, He just last deadline wanted to trade IQ for a protected or late first, again got lucky it didn't happen.
Jalen was imo complete luck, Dallas messed up big time when his dad actually pleaded for them to extend him for 12m, oops! I can on but I'm not a fan of this FO to date, they even messed up getting a player who wanted to be here in Donovan Mitchell, and by rumor all they had to do was take one protected pick say Bucks and turn it into a non protected pick, and right now those picks aren't far apart if projecting 2025.

I think this FO failed there first go around because the players named well they either walked or we had to add to get rid of them to have cap for Brunny. Even if we want to give them credit for the Jalen signing and not trading Randle, well i'll go with what they do in next or in the near future will be how we judge them.

As far as IQ, great draft pick love the kid, lets see how we handle him since almost letting him go for a protected, but some could say hey Leon left Bane on the table,right?
Grimes is great, I see him as H2O but plays defense, but now we need to see how Thibs will utilize him with both Hart and DD here.

There are FO advocates for the Knicks, nothing i've read all over so far has changed my mind, till further notice.

Here is the TL;DR version: Leon inherited a 21 win team and in 2 of the 3 years the team far outperformed expectations. They have are poised to reach a 50 game season, have a rotation that is one of the youngest in the league, have signed one of the best UFA players in the last decade to one of the best vale contracts in the league (prob not a superstar but potentially really close to it), extended and sign many many core players to very team friendly contracts considering the new salary cap coming up (Randle, Jalen, RJ, Mitch), their core young players have developed very nicely (Mitch one of the best rebounders and interior defenders in league, IQ near 6MOY, Grimes one of the best POA defenders in league, Brunson put into position to shine, Randle put into position to redeem himself to 2 time all NBA), and have plenty of tradable assets to trade for a star over the next 2-3 years.

The rest of what you are saying is just a mishmash of what every other team goes through. Also, you don’t hold something against a team or player or person for something they don’t do, that is silliness.

I would love to give them credit for all the above but my last post explains why, and you can say silliness, I say could be very, very lucky. How many more what if's you want?

what if Lakers said okay we will take Randle for Westbrook straight up? How you feeling? What if Dallas wasn't dumb and Jalen didn't have all the ties to NY?

You can ask the other PSD members I've been on our FO to go after Jalen since the KP trade, I wanted the Knicks at the deadline two years back to trade an asset and give them their pick back to Jalen. I'm not tauting but this really happened and some how with Daddy Brunson begging Dallas to extend his son they still did not.

We got him, I'll give the FO credit for that for sure. But the DM thing? The Obi thing? I'm sorry but I have to take a step back be skeptical but how they will handle the next opportunity.

Now don't get me wrong, probably no happier Knick fan we have Brunny here and I also want IHart before he was even a FA, so happy there as well. I was a full advocate for Hart, and I was basically alone on a island protecting Mitch when he was drafted and his early days.

So again your take is good, right now today at this second, no I can't agree, but I will let them prove what they are with the next move(s).

My final take on Jalen? A 15 year old could have traded our pick and paid Jalen more than Dallas could even touch being in the lux tax. Kind of Bold but that's my take, hope they prove me completely wrong.

martin wrote:

stillafan wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:

stillafan wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:Some deals work out some don't. Every move is a calculated risk. Rose made some bad choices but nothing catastrophic that has held the team back. Randal is all NBA, and Brunson is all NBA to come. A team with two NBA talents is something we couldn't envision a few years ago. Plus we did great with IQ and Grimes where they were picked. You win some and you lose some. Team this offseason didn't replicate that failed offseason by making too many moves overreacting to a play off loss. Team rolls into the season with a TPE,an expiring 18 million contract, a boatload of second rounders and first rounders, and players with large, medium, and small contracts to make smaller, medium, or a big trade. We are in good shape

i'm going to disagree, not many GMS inherit a Randle, RJ, Mitch, Marcus Morris, Bullock Portis, a number 8 pick, all other picks, two dallas picks and turned into Kemba, Rose, Fournier, Noel, picked Obi over a PG.
And to recall things he attempted to trade Randle but teams wanted Leon to include a pick hence not trade, He just last deadline wanted to trade IQ for a protected or late first, again got lucky it didn't happen.
Jalen was imo complete luck, Dallas messed up big time when his dad actually pleaded for them to extend him for 12m, oops! I can on but I'm not a fan of this FO to date, they even messed up getting a player who wanted to be here in Donovan Mitchell, and by rumor all they had to do was take one protected pick say Bucks and turn it into a non protected pick, and right now those picks aren't far apart if projecting 2025.

I think this FO failed there first go around because the players named well they either walked or we had to add to get rid of them to have cap for Brunny. Even if we want to give them credit for the Jalen signing and not trading Randle, well i'll go with what they do in next or in the near future will be how we judge them.

As far as IQ, great draft pick love the kid, lets see how we handle him since almost letting him go for a protected, but some could say hey Leon left Bane on the table,right?
Grimes is great, I see him as H2O but plays defense, but now we need to see how Thibs will utilize him with both Hart and DD here.

There are FO advocates for the Knicks, nothing i've read all over so far has changed my mind, till further notice.

Fandom takes many forms. I will leave issues from several seasons ago in the past at this point.

i wish I could but most recently didn't we have to trade our #13 pick unload contracts to simply have the cap we had when they first got here? It's like inherenting money then it's spent poorly, then it's I'll leave the past behind?

In the NBA you imo can't do that because how you got to B, A had to happen, now we are up to C, and that is the test. If A and B didn't happen there would be no C?

I'm not young and I was taught a long time ago, the past is only good if you learn from, i'm still of the opinion till further notice. But i'm also ok that being lucky is good lol, we are now projected a playoff team, so all is not lost.

And if you can leave the past in the past, I think that's great, my mind just dont' function like that, I forgive but don't forget, it's the process of learning.

the other side is denial, well that is a completely different story lol, hopefully that dont' apply to our FO and we learned from the DM miss etc.

Knicks got Brunson and other first round picks for moving bench players and some trash players with some second round picks.

This would amount to a good thing.

I thought I said that, but we've discussed it soo much in the past, the short answer is absolutely, I've said over and over they made up for year one's blunders.

I don't think anyone would call giving up Burkes, #13 and 4 seconds to get three protected firsts back, one from the Bucks you know is almost a second and two others that have more probability of not conveying a good thing?

It was a move to counter the first year's complete blunder, 63m in cap how on earth is Kemba, Fourn, Noel, Rose considered positive signings. I think Detroit says thank you because they got both players they wanted in the draft since they had cap space to absorb 3 players.

stillafan wrote:

martin wrote:

stillafan wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:Some deals work out some don't. Every move is a calculated risk. Rose made some bad choices but nothing catastrophic that has held the team back. Randal is all NBA, and Brunson is all NBA to come. A team with two NBA talents is something we couldn't envision a few years ago. Plus we did great with IQ and Grimes where they were picked. You win some and you lose some. Team this offseason didn't replicate that failed offseason by making too many moves overreacting to a play off loss. Team rolls into the season with a TPE,an expiring 18 million contract, a boatload of second rounders and first rounders, and players with large, medium, and small contracts to make smaller, medium, or a big trade. We are in good shape

i'm going to disagree, not many GMS inherit a Randle, RJ, Mitch, Marcus Morris, Bullock Portis, a number 8 pick, all other picks, two dallas picks and turned into Kemba, Rose, Fournier, Noel, picked Obi over a PG.
And to recall things he attempted to trade Randle but teams wanted Leon to include a pick hence not trade, He just last deadline wanted to trade IQ for a protected or late first, again got lucky it didn't happen.
Jalen was imo complete luck, Dallas messed up big time when his dad actually pleaded for them to extend him for 12m, oops! I can on but I'm not a fan of this FO to date, they even messed up getting a player who wanted to be here in Donovan Mitchell, and by rumor all they had to do was take one protected pick say Bucks and turn it into a non protected pick, and right now those picks aren't far apart if projecting 2025.

I think this FO failed there first go around because the players named well they either walked or we had to add to get rid of them to have cap for Brunny. Even if we want to give them credit for the Jalen signing and not trading Randle, well i'll go with what they do in next or in the near future will be how we judge them.

As far as IQ, great draft pick love the kid, lets see how we handle him since almost letting him go for a protected, but some could say hey Leon left Bane on the table,right?
Grimes is great, I see him as H2O but plays defense, but now we need to see how Thibs will utilize him with both Hart and DD here.

There are FO advocates for the Knicks, nothing i've read all over so far has changed my mind, till further notice.

Here is the TL;DR version: Leon inherited a 21 win team and in 2 of the 3 years the team far outperformed expectations. They have are poised to reach a 50 game season, have a rotation that is one of the youngest in the league, have signed one of the best UFA players in the last decade to one of the best vale contracts in the league (prob not a superstar but potentially really close to it), extended and sign many many core players to very team friendly contracts considering the new salary cap coming up (Randle, Jalen, RJ, Mitch), their core young players have developed very nicely (Mitch one of the best rebounders and interior defenders in league, IQ near 6MOY, Grimes one of the best POA defenders in league, Brunson put into position to shine, Randle put into position to redeem himself to 2 time all NBA), and have plenty of tradable assets to trade for a star over the next 2-3 years.

The rest of what you are saying is just a mishmash of what every other team goes through. Also, you don’t hold something against a team or player or person for something they don’t do, that is silliness.

I would love to give them credit for all the above but my last post explains why, and you can say silliness, I say could be very, very lucky. How many more what if's you want?

what if Lakers said okay we will take Randle for Westbrook straight up? How you feeling? What if Dallas wasn't dumb and Jalen didn't have all the ties to NY?

You can ask the other PSD members I've been on our FO to go after Jalen since the KP trade, I wanted the Knicks at the deadline two years back to trade an asset and give them their pick back to Jalen. I'm not tauting but this really happened and some how with Daddy Brunson begging Dallas to extend his son they still did not.

We got him, I'll give the FO credit for that for sure. But the DM thing? The Obi thing? I'm sorry but I have to take a step back be skeptical but how they will handle the next opportunity.

Now don't get me wrong, probably no happier Knick fan we have Brunny here and I also want IHart before he was even a FA, so happy there as well. I was a full advocate for Hart, and I was basically alone on a island protecting Mitch when he was drafted and his early days.

So again your take is good, right now today at this second, no I can't agree, but I will let them prove what they are with the next move(s).

My final take on Jalen? A 15 year old could have traded our pick and paid Jalen more than Dallas could even touch being in the lux tax. Kind of Bold but that's my take, hope they prove me completely wrong.

Good teams call around the league to assess the trade value of their players all the time, even if they have no intention of trading that player. You do it in the years before you need to extend that player or possibly make future trades, this is actually a very good thing, not something else that you are misinterpreting.

Knick FO (or any FO really) make enough actual moves that are poor that you can actually speak to.

Holding a FO to account for stuff they don’t do is not luck, that’s just something you made up and has zero meaning. Beat writes and other national guys talk about this all the time and all you are doing is repeating it back as a FO having luck not doing something; it’s a bad argument.

stillafan wrote:

martin wrote:

stillafan wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:

stillafan wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:Some deals work out some don't. Every move is a calculated risk. Rose made some bad choices but nothing catastrophic that has held the team back. Randal is all NBA, and Brunson is all NBA to come. A team with two NBA talents is something we couldn't envision a few years ago. Plus we did great with IQ and Grimes where they were picked. You win some and you lose some. Team this offseason didn't replicate that failed offseason by making too many moves overreacting to a play off loss. Team rolls into the season with a TPE,an expiring 18 million contract, a boatload of second rounders and first rounders, and players with large, medium, and small contracts to make smaller, medium, or a big trade. We are in good shape

i'm going to disagree, not many GMS inherit a Randle, RJ, Mitch, Marcus Morris, Bullock Portis, a number 8 pick, all other picks, two dallas picks and turned into Kemba, Rose, Fournier, Noel, picked Obi over a PG.
And to recall things he attempted to trade Randle but teams wanted Leon to include a pick hence not trade, He just last deadline wanted to trade IQ for a protected or late first, again got lucky it didn't happen.
Jalen was imo complete luck, Dallas messed up big time when his dad actually pleaded for them to extend him for 12m, oops! I can on but I'm not a fan of this FO to date, they even messed up getting a player who wanted to be here in Donovan Mitchell, and by rumor all they had to do was take one protected pick say Bucks and turn it into a non protected pick, and right now those picks aren't far apart if projecting 2025.

I think this FO failed there first go around because the players named well they either walked or we had to add to get rid of them to have cap for Brunny. Even if we want to give them credit for the Jalen signing and not trading Randle, well i'll go with what they do in next or in the near future will be how we judge them.

As far as IQ, great draft pick love the kid, lets see how we handle him since almost letting him go for a protected, but some could say hey Leon left Bane on the table,right?
Grimes is great, I see him as H2O but plays defense, but now we need to see how Thibs will utilize him with both Hart and DD here.

There are FO advocates for the Knicks, nothing i've read all over so far has changed my mind, till further notice.

Fandom takes many forms. I will leave issues from several seasons ago in the past at this point.

i wish I could but most recently didn't we have to trade our #13 pick unload contracts to simply have the cap we had when they first got here? It's like inherenting money then it's spent poorly, then it's I'll leave the past behind?

In the NBA you imo can't do that because how you got to B, A had to happen, now we are up to C, and that is the test. If A and B didn't happen there would be no C?

I'm not young and I was taught a long time ago, the past is only good if you learn from, i'm still of the opinion till further notice. But i'm also ok that being lucky is good lol, we are now projected a playoff team, so all is not lost.

And if you can leave the past in the past, I think that's great, my mind just dont' function like that, I forgive but don't forget, it's the process of learning.

the other side is denial, well that is a completely different story lol, hopefully that dont' apply to our FO and we learned from the DM miss etc.

Knicks got Brunson and other first round picks for moving bench players and some trash players with some second round picks.

This would amount to a good thing.

I thought I said that, but we've discussed it soo much in the past, the short answer is absolutely, I've said over and over they made up for year one's blunders.

I don't think anyone would call giving up Burkes, #13 and 4 seconds to get three protected firsts back, one from the Bucks you know is almost a second and two others that have more probability of not conveying a good thing?

It was a move to counter the first year's complete blunder, 63m in cap how on earth is Kemba, Fourn, Noel, Rose considered positive signings. I think Detroit says thank you because they got both players they wanted in the draft since they had cap space to absorb 3 players.

Basically what your saying is if you had run the Knicks instead of Rose, you would have made alternate moves, the team would have won one or two championships in the last three years, accumulated 12 first rounders, and what else ?

stillafan wrote:

martin wrote:

stillafan wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:

stillafan wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:Some deals work out some don't. Every move is a calculated risk. Rose made some bad choices but nothing catastrophic that has held the team back. Randal is all NBA, and Brunson is all NBA to come. A team with two NBA talents is something we couldn't envision a few years ago. Plus we did great with IQ and Grimes where they were picked. You win some and you lose some. Team this offseason didn't replicate that failed offseason by making too many moves overreacting to a play off loss. Team rolls into the season with a TPE,an expiring 18 million contract, a boatload of second rounders and first rounders, and players with large, medium, and small contracts to make smaller, medium, or a big trade. We are in good shape

i'm going to disagree, not many GMS inherit a Randle, RJ, Mitch, Marcus Morris, Bullock Portis, a number 8 pick, all other picks, two dallas picks and turned into Kemba, Rose, Fournier, Noel, picked Obi over a PG.
And to recall things he attempted to trade Randle but teams wanted Leon to include a pick hence not trade, He just last deadline wanted to trade IQ for a protected or late first, again got lucky it didn't happen.
Jalen was imo complete luck, Dallas messed up big time when his dad actually pleaded for them to extend him for 12m, oops! I can on but I'm not a fan of this FO to date, they even messed up getting a player who wanted to be here in Donovan Mitchell, and by rumor all they had to do was take one protected pick say Bucks and turn it into a non protected pick, and right now those picks aren't far apart if projecting 2025.

I think this FO failed there first go around because the players named well they either walked or we had to add to get rid of them to have cap for Brunny. Even if we want to give them credit for the Jalen signing and not trading Randle, well i'll go with what they do in next or in the near future will be how we judge them.

As far as IQ, great draft pick love the kid, lets see how we handle him since almost letting him go for a protected, but some could say hey Leon left Bane on the table,right?
Grimes is great, I see him as H2O but plays defense, but now we need to see how Thibs will utilize him with both Hart and DD here.

There are FO advocates for the Knicks, nothing i've read all over so far has changed my mind, till further notice.

Fandom takes many forms. I will leave issues from several seasons ago in the past at this point.

i wish I could but most recently didn't we have to trade our #13 pick unload contracts to simply have the cap we had when they first got here? It's like inherenting money then it's spent poorly, then it's I'll leave the past behind?

In the NBA you imo can't do that because how you got to B, A had to happen, now we are up to C, and that is the test. If A and B didn't happen there would be no C?

I'm not young and I was taught a long time ago, the past is only good if you learn from, i'm still of the opinion till further notice. But i'm also ok that being lucky is good lol, we are now projected a playoff team, so all is not lost.

And if you can leave the past in the past, I think that's great, my mind just dont' function like that, I forgive but don't forget, it's the process of learning.

the other side is denial, well that is a completely different story lol, hopefully that dont' apply to our FO and we learned from the DM miss etc.

Knicks got Brunson and other first round picks for moving bench players and some trash players with some second round picks.

This would amount to a good thing.

I thought I said that, but we've discussed it soo much in the past, the short answer is absolutely, I've said over and over they made up for year one's blunders.

I don't think anyone would call giving up Burkes, #13 and 4 seconds to get three protected firsts back, one from the Bucks you know is almost a second and two others that have more probability of not conveying a good thing?

It was a move to counter the first year's complete blunder, 63m in cap how on earth is Kemba, Fourn, Noel, Rose considered positive signings. I think Detroit says thank you because they got both players they wanted in the draft since they had cap space to absorb 3 players.

?

Quite frankly that’s a fairly stupid way to look at that sequence of moves, especially when Brunson is involved in the outcome. You can’t just conveniently leave that part out.

Your frame is that a FO must make entirely perfect moves at every juncture or every other transaction after that is not a good one because of that. If that’s your perspective, it’s a myopic one IMHO

martin wrote:

stillafan wrote:

martin wrote:

stillafan wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:Some deals work out some don't. Every move is a calculated risk. Rose made some bad choices but nothing catastrophic that has held the team back. Randal is all NBA, and Brunson is all NBA to come. A team with two NBA talents is something we couldn't envision a few years ago. Plus we did great with IQ and Grimes where they were picked. You win some and you lose some. Team this offseason didn't replicate that failed offseason by making too many moves overreacting to a play off loss. Team rolls into the season with a TPE,an expiring 18 million contract, a boatload of second rounders and first rounders, and players with large, medium, and small contracts to make smaller, medium, or a big trade. We are in good shape

i'm going to disagree, not many GMS inherit a Randle, RJ, Mitch, Marcus Morris, Bullock Portis, a number 8 pick, all other picks, two dallas picks and turned into Kemba, Rose, Fournier, Noel, picked Obi over a PG.
And to recall things he attempted to trade Randle but teams wanted Leon to include a pick hence not trade, He just last deadline wanted to trade IQ for a protected or late first, again got lucky it didn't happen.
Jalen was imo complete luck, Dallas messed up big time when his dad actually pleaded for them to extend him for 12m, oops! I can on but I'm not a fan of this FO to date, they even messed up getting a player who wanted to be here in Donovan Mitchell, and by rumor all they had to do was take one protected pick say Bucks and turn it into a non protected pick, and right now those picks aren't far apart if projecting 2025.

I think this FO failed there first go around because the players named well they either walked or we had to add to get rid of them to have cap for Brunny. Even if we want to give them credit for the Jalen signing and not trading Randle, well i'll go with what they do in next or in the near future will be how we judge them.

As far as IQ, great draft pick love the kid, lets see how we handle him since almost letting him go for a protected, but some could say hey Leon left Bane on the table,right?
Grimes is great, I see him as H2O but plays defense, but now we need to see how Thibs will utilize him with both Hart and DD here.

There are FO advocates for the Knicks, nothing i've read all over so far has changed my mind, till further notice.

Here is the TL;DR version: Leon inherited a 21 win team and in 2 of the 3 years the team far outperformed expectations. They have are poised to reach a 50 game season, have a rotation that is one of the youngest in the league, have signed one of the best UFA players in the last decade to one of the best vale contracts in the league (prob not a superstar but potentially really close to it), extended and sign many many core players to very team friendly contracts considering the new salary cap coming up (Randle, Jalen, RJ, Mitch), their core young players have developed very nicely (Mitch one of the best rebounders and interior defenders in league, IQ near 6MOY, Grimes one of the best POA defenders in league, Brunson put into position to shine, Randle put into position to redeem himself to 2 time all NBA), and have plenty of tradable assets to trade for a star over the next 2-3 years.

The rest of what you are saying is just a mishmash of what every other team goes through. Also, you don’t hold something against a team or player or person for something they don’t do, that is silliness.

I would love to give them credit for all the above but my last post explains why, and you can say silliness, I say could be very, very lucky. How many more what if's you want?

what if Lakers said okay we will take Randle for Westbrook straight up? How you feeling? What if Dallas wasn't dumb and Jalen didn't have all the ties to NY?

You can ask the other PSD members I've been on our FO to go after Jalen since the KP trade, I wanted the Knicks at the deadline two years back to trade an asset and give them their pick back to Jalen. I'm not tauting but this really happened and some how with Daddy Brunson begging Dallas to extend his son they still did not.

We got him, I'll give the FO credit for that for sure. But the DM thing? The Obi thing? I'm sorry but I have to take a step back be skeptical but how they will handle the next opportunity.

Now don't get me wrong, probably no happier Knick fan we have Brunny here and I also want IHart before he was even a FA, so happy there as well. I was a full advocate for Hart, and I was basically alone on a island protecting Mitch when he was drafted and his early days.

So again your take is good, right now today at this second, no I can't agree, but I will let them prove what they are with the next move(s).

My final take on Jalen? A 15 year old could have traded our pick and paid Jalen more than Dallas could even touch being in the lux tax. Kind of Bold but that's my take, hope they prove me completely wrong.

Good teams call around the league to assess the trade value of their players all the time, even if they have no intention of trading that player. You do it in the years before you need to extend that player or possibly make future trades, this is actually a very good thing, not something else that you are misinterpreting.

Knick FO (or any FO really) make enough actual moves that are poor that you can actually speak to.

Holding a FO to account for stuff they don’t do is not luck, that’s just something you made up and has zero meaning. Beat writes and other national guys talk about this all the time and all you are doing is repeating it back as a FO having luck not doing something; it’s a bad argument.

I don't use others for my opinions tbh, just saying. So I am calling as it happened and are facts. If a FO wants to do something and the other teams don't comply, then weren't they lucky? It happens but not to this fequency and with your key players you want to give the FO credit for?

Not sure how facts are a bad argument? let me be clear, my grade on the FO is incomplete, it was one year horrible, the next lets give them high grades no matter what you want to call it. So that leaves us in the middle, so to repeat their next moves for me any way will be my assessment of them.

You want to call that a bad argument I call it an opinion, right? You may not agree with me, but if any of my statements are wrong i'm always open to being corrected. And from where we sit Randle was a gonner not once but twice and IQ would have been a gonner at the break.

I used to have these discussions about Frank and Knick fans had his value high, and the rumor came out Knicks wanted and early 2nd or better and didn't get it, so what happened we got nothing for him. If Frank turned out good do we give the FO credit?

stillafan wrote:

martin wrote:

stillafan wrote:

martin wrote:

stillafan wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:Some deals work out some don't. Every move is a calculated risk. Rose made some bad choices but nothing catastrophic that has held the team back. Randal is all NBA, and Brunson is all NBA to come. A team with two NBA talents is something we couldn't envision a few years ago. Plus we did great with IQ and Grimes where they were picked. You win some and you lose some. Team this offseason didn't replicate that failed offseason by making too many moves overreacting to a play off loss. Team rolls into the season with a TPE,an expiring 18 million contract, a boatload of second rounders and first rounders, and players with large, medium, and small contracts to make smaller, medium, or a big trade. We are in good shape

i'm going to disagree, not many GMS inherit a Randle, RJ, Mitch, Marcus Morris, Bullock Portis, a number 8 pick, all other picks, two dallas picks and turned into Kemba, Rose, Fournier, Noel, picked Obi over a PG.
And to recall things he attempted to trade Randle but teams wanted Leon to include a pick hence not trade, He just last deadline wanted to trade IQ for a protected or late first, again got lucky it didn't happen.
Jalen was imo complete luck, Dallas messed up big time when his dad actually pleaded for them to extend him for 12m, oops! I can on but I'm not a fan of this FO to date, they even messed up getting a player who wanted to be here in Donovan Mitchell, and by rumor all they had to do was take one protected pick say Bucks and turn it into a non protected pick, and right now those picks aren't far apart if projecting 2025.

I think this FO failed there first go around because the players named well they either walked or we had to add to get rid of them to have cap for Brunny. Even if we want to give them credit for the Jalen signing and not trading Randle, well i'll go with what they do in next or in the near future will be how we judge them.

As far as IQ, great draft pick love the kid, lets see how we handle him since almost letting him go for a protected, but some could say hey Leon left Bane on the table,right?
Grimes is great, I see him as H2O but plays defense, but now we need to see how Thibs will utilize him with both Hart and DD here.

There are FO advocates for the Knicks, nothing i've read all over so far has changed my mind, till further notice.

Here is the TL;DR version: Leon inherited a 21 win team and in 2 of the 3 years the team far outperformed expectations. They have are poised to reach a 50 game season, have a rotation that is one of the youngest in the league, have signed one of the best UFA players in the last decade to one of the best vale contracts in the league (prob not a superstar but potentially really close to it), extended and sign many many core players to very team friendly contracts considering the new salary cap coming up (Randle, Jalen, RJ, Mitch), their core young players have developed very nicely (Mitch one of the best rebounders and interior defenders in league, IQ near 6MOY, Grimes one of the best POA defenders in league, Brunson put into position to shine, Randle put into position to redeem himself to 2 time all NBA), and have plenty of tradable assets to trade for a star over the next 2-3 years.

The rest of what you are saying is just a mishmash of what every other team goes through. Also, you don’t hold something against a team or player or person for something they don’t do, that is silliness.

I would love to give them credit for all the above but my last post explains why, and you can say silliness, I say could be very, very lucky. How many more what if's you want?

what if Lakers said okay we will take Randle for Westbrook straight up? How you feeling? What if Dallas wasn't dumb and Jalen didn't have all the ties to NY?

You can ask the other PSD members I've been on our FO to go after Jalen since the KP trade, I wanted the Knicks at the deadline two years back to trade an asset and give them their pick back to Jalen. I'm not tauting but this really happened and some how with Daddy Brunson begging Dallas to extend his son they still did not.

We got him, I'll give the FO credit for that for sure. But the DM thing? The Obi thing? I'm sorry but I have to take a step back be skeptical but how they will handle the next opportunity.

Now don't get me wrong, probably no happier Knick fan we have Brunny here and I also want IHart before he was even a FA, so happy there as well. I was a full advocate for Hart, and I was basically alone on a island protecting Mitch when he was drafted and his early days.

So again your take is good, right now today at this second, no I can't agree, but I will let them prove what they are with the next move(s).

My final take on Jalen? A 15 year old could have traded our pick and paid Jalen more than Dallas could even touch being in the lux tax. Kind of Bold but that's my take, hope they prove me completely wrong.

Good teams call around the league to assess the trade value of their players all the time, even if they have no intention of trading that player. You do it in the years before you need to extend that player or possibly make future trades, this is actually a very good thing, not something else that you are misinterpreting.

Knick FO (or any FO really) make enough actual moves that are poor that you can actually speak to.

Holding a FO to account for stuff they don’t do is not luck, that’s just something you made up and has zero meaning. Beat writes and other national guys talk about this all the time and all you are doing is repeating it back as a FO having luck not doing something; it’s a bad argument.

I don't use others for my opinions tbh, just saying. So I am calling as it happened and are facts. If a FO wants to do something and the other teams don't comply, then weren't they lucky? It happens but not to this fequency and with your key players you want to give the FO credit for?

Not sure how facts are a bad argument? let me be clear, my grade on the FO is incomplete, it was one year horrible, the next lets give them high grades no matter what you want to call it. So that leaves us in the middle, so to repeat their next moves for me any way will be my assessment of them.

You want to call that a bad argument I call it an opinion, right? You may not agree with me, but if any of my statements are wrong i'm always open to being corrected. And from where we sit Randle was a gonner not once but twice and IQ would have been a gonner at the break.

I used to have these discussions about Frank and Knick fans had his value high, and the rumor came out Knicks wanted and early 2nd or better and didn't get it, so what happened we got nothing for him. If Frank turned out good do we give the FO credit?

I just gave you a completely reasonable take on why a team would call around the league to assess the vale of a player that is on their roster - something that has been repeated by many many people around the league - and you completely ignored it and went on to call it luck.

At a base level, it’s just called doing your job.

After that… 🤷‍♂️

martin wrote:

stillafan wrote:

martin wrote:

stillafan wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:

stillafan wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:Some deals work out some don't. Every move is a calculated risk. Rose made some bad choices but nothing catastrophic that has held the team back. Randal is all NBA, and Brunson is all NBA to come. A team with two NBA talents is something we couldn't envision a few years ago. Plus we did great with IQ and Grimes where they were picked. You win some and you lose some. Team this offseason didn't replicate that failed offseason by making too many moves overreacting to a play off loss. Team rolls into the season with a TPE,an expiring 18 million contract, a boatload of second rounders and first rounders, and players with large, medium, and small contracts to make smaller, medium, or a big trade. We are in good shape

i'm going to disagree, not many GMS inherit a Randle, RJ, Mitch, Marcus Morris, Bullock Portis, a number 8 pick, all other picks, two dallas picks and turned into Kemba, Rose, Fournier, Noel, picked Obi over a PG.
And to recall things he attempted to trade Randle but teams wanted Leon to include a pick hence not trade, He just last deadline wanted to trade IQ for a protected or late first, again got lucky it didn't happen.
Jalen was imo complete luck, Dallas messed up big time when his dad actually pleaded for them to extend him for 12m, oops! I can on but I'm not a fan of this FO to date, they even messed up getting a player who wanted to be here in Donovan Mitchell, and by rumor all they had to do was take one protected pick say Bucks and turn it into a non protected pick, and right now those picks aren't far apart if projecting 2025.

I think this FO failed there first go around because the players named well they either walked or we had to add to get rid of them to have cap for Brunny. Even if we want to give them credit for the Jalen signing and not trading Randle, well i'll go with what they do in next or in the near future will be how we judge them.

As far as IQ, great draft pick love the kid, lets see how we handle him since almost letting him go for a protected, but some could say hey Leon left Bane on the table,right?
Grimes is great, I see him as H2O but plays defense, but now we need to see how Thibs will utilize him with both Hart and DD here.

There are FO advocates for the Knicks, nothing i've read all over so far has changed my mind, till further notice.

Fandom takes many forms. I will leave issues from several seasons ago in the past at this point.

i wish I could but most recently didn't we have to trade our #13 pick unload contracts to simply have the cap we had when they first got here? It's like inherenting money then it's spent poorly, then it's I'll leave the past behind?

In the NBA you imo can't do that because how you got to B, A had to happen, now we are up to C, and that is the test. If A and B didn't happen there would be no C?

I'm not young and I was taught a long time ago, the past is only good if you learn from, i'm still of the opinion till further notice. But i'm also ok that being lucky is good lol, we are now projected a playoff team, so all is not lost.

And if you can leave the past in the past, I think that's great, my mind just dont' function like that, I forgive but don't forget, it's the process of learning.

the other side is denial, well that is a completely different story lol, hopefully that dont' apply to our FO and we learned from the DM miss etc.

Knicks got Brunson and other first round picks for moving bench players and some trash players with some second round picks.

This would amount to a good thing.

I thought I said that, but we've discussed it soo much in the past, the short answer is absolutely, I've said over and over they made up for year one's blunders.

I don't think anyone would call giving up Burkes, #13 and 4 seconds to get three protected firsts back, one from the Bucks you know is almost a second and two others that have more probability of not conveying a good thing?

It was a move to counter the first year's complete blunder, 63m in cap how on earth is Kemba, Fourn, Noel, Rose considered positive signings. I think Detroit says thank you because they got both players they wanted in the draft since they had cap space to absorb 3 players.

?

Quite frankly that’s a fairly stupid way to look at that sequence of moves, especially when Brunson is involved in the outcome. You can’t just conveniently leave that part out.

Your frame is that a FO must make entirely perfect moves at every juncture or every other transaction after that is not a good one because of that. If that’s your perspective, it’s a myopic one IMHO

It's not what I'm saying and your missing what I'm saying so lets leave the stupid out ok?

We just don't agree, I've said year one failure, year two lets give the FO Credit because yes we got Brunny, we have Hart, I love DD, we didn't make any stupid trades like giving PG13 the 5 year max extension at his age and injuries he wanted and on top of that what the Clips wanted in return. I love PG13 but applaud the FO for not making this splash trade that would have been good for a year maybe two, but could get ugly down the line talking about that much money for that age and injury history.

To be clear it's the next move that will be this FO's determining point of just how good they are for us imo. Brunson is included in the outcome, you have to give credit where credit is do, don't mean we didn't get lucky.

I'm not being that guy, i'm just stating facts and my opinion on the FO, isn't that OK? I promise you I won't call your opinion or your view stupid, your entitled to your opinion.

And if we get lucky again count me in lol