Knicks · M Bridges vs Q Grimes (page 2)

Nalod wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:Grimes was sooo bad against Miami (most of the team was) aside from one lucky hustle play. I worry he is another one of those guys we overrated. He's a decent player but might not be a starter on a contender.

Small sample size under the bright lights and your counting him out ?

We did with Randle after his series vs. ATL. Flat out indictment of him and his son! Just kidding on the boy.
Randle in my book gets a pass because of his ankle.
Fans over exuberant? Bing Bong..........

Fuck Randle's kid.

LivingLegend wrote:Grimes really needs to develop confidence and a mid-range game —- until those come he’s going to continue being who we’ve seen past few years which is a solid / inconsistent role player.

I don't think Grimes has much in the mid range right now but even if he did I am pretty confident they are not shots that would be welcomed by his coach. I'd like to see us do a little more with him but right now his job is a space, hit 3s, and beat close outs.

nycericanguy wrote:Mikal came in a year older but if you look at their first two seasons it's not a crazy comp. I think Grimes has potential to average 16-20ppg in this league. He's averaged 9.2ppg in 24.8mpg so far, Mikal first two seasons was at 8.7 in 28.8mpg despite being older and more seasoned.

https://stathead.com/tiny/LdARO

For Grimes to average 20 on the Knicks I think the offense would need to change drastically. I think 16 is doable. It would take a bit of a leap from him but I think he is good enough.

EwingsGlass wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:Yes, M Bridges from the Ners is a player we all dream of having. Talented and young and versatile who likely is out of our price range. Yet we have Q Grimes a young two way swingman. Can Grimes in the process of his development provide for us a approximation of what Bridges does for us while being the 4 or 5th option behind, JB, JR, RJ, IQ on offense

I’ll bite on this one. I know I hit Grady for his Giannis comparison, but Bridges to Grimes is more in line. I see Grimes as an undersized SG at the NBA that plays with tenacity, has a great first step and shoots well, although his career 3 point numbers haven’t really differentiated him yet.

Mikal Bridges has good size at SG at 6’6 with a 7 foot wingspan and plays elite perimeter defense. Given a chance to be the focus of the Nets offense, he grabbed the ball and ran with it to the tune of 26 points a game.

So, while it looks like Grimes gives up an inch of height, has a better 3 point percentage, Mikal has 5 inches more of wingspan, has been able to keep those numbers up when the focal point of the offense and was able to average 26 points a game for 27 games.

I have no intention of knocking Grimes in this comparison, I just think that bridges can guard 1-4 with his wingspan and Grimes is 1-3 if the 3 is a small 3.

We just saw him make Jimmy Butler work very hard in a playoff series he didn't even play well in. It was also his 2nd season in the NBA and first as a rotation player. Grimes can guard 1-3 at an elite level. KL and Jason Tatum maybe a little too big for him but they are too big or too fast for everyone in the NBA

MS wrote:I think best thing we can do as an organization is be patient.

Play small ball and allow our guys to improve.

IQ, Grimes, RJ all have another ceiling to hit. Especially Grimes if Thibs can push the pace and get more transition threes it’s going to open up the court for him. He seems to be working and putting his head down. DD and IQ should also help open up things. If Thibs runs the right lineups we should be an elite 3 point shooting team.

Grimes is a guy that really benefits a ton from ball movement and pace around him. He has the quick high release, moves well without the ball, has that super first step, and is a good finisher/passer going north/south. Him and Obi were really a fine fit together on O. Shame they never got much run together. If they play him at 3 with more guard heavy lineups I think QG will benefit.

EwingPSD wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:Mikal came in a year older but if you look at their first two seasons it's not a crazy comp. I think Grimes has potential to average 16-20ppg in this league. He's averaged 9.2ppg in 24.8mpg so far, Mikal first two seasons was at 8.7 in 28.8mpg despite being older and more seasoned.

https://stathead.com/tiny/LdARO

For Grimes to average 20 on the Knicks I think the offense would need to change drastically. I think 16 is doable. It would take a bit of a leap from him but I think he is good enough.

and thats fine, Mikal in PHO only averaged around 15ppg PER 36 minutes, for comparison Grimes was already at 13.6 per 36 last year. when you have a contending team that usually means alot of good players and you gotta spread the wealth out a bit.

But I think he has that potential, Mikal never scored 20 in PHO, heck he only had 1 half season over 16ppg in PHO. maybe if we trade RJ & IQ he gets that chance, or maybe he's just a 12-14ppg guy here but still just as important just as Mikal was in PHO despite not scoring that much.

I love Grimes but I don't think he'll ever be given the green light to a franchise like Mikael Bridges. Heck, Bridges didn't even think he would be given the green light to a franchise lol.

It seems like Grimes is exclusively working on becoming just a 3-D player with strong cuts to the basket. I would live to see more but then again we would need a coach to encourage that

Grimes game could be patterned after Klay Thompson. A dead eye shooter that learned to move without the ball to get open, and the fundamentals to create space with it. Sort of Allan Houstan like.
Season to season break out would be great but incremental growth is just fine also.
Im assuming DDV had a promise that he could compete to start. Grimes will be in rotation but starter minutes might not be a given.
So before we anoint him the next KlayPenny, lets see how it starts.

Nalod wrote:Grimes game could be patterned after Klay Thompson. A dead eye shooter that learned to move without the ball to get open, and the fundamentals to create space with it. Sort of Allan Houstan like.
Season to season break out would be great but incremental growth is just fine also.
Im assuming DDV had a promise that he could compete to start. Grimes will be in rotation but starter minutes might not be a given.
So before we anoint him the next KlayPenny, lets see how it starts.

DDV just happy to hang out with his bros

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:Grimes game could be patterned after Klay Thompson. A dead eye shooter that learned to move without the ball to get open, and the fundamentals to create space with it. Sort of Allan Houstan like.
Season to season break out would be great but incremental growth is just fine also.
Im assuming DDV had a promise that he could compete to start. Grimes will be in rotation but starter minutes might not be a given.
So before we anoint him the next KlayPenny, lets see how it starts.

DDV just happy to hang out with his bros

DDV https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...
Q https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...

I can't speak about promises to start, but I think Q needs to come into camp believing he has to earn that starting role again. Q might have the higher upside still, but DDV has solid per-36 numbers on real sample size, chemistry with Brunson and Hart. He is the better player today. I think Q freezing when pressed has to be on the staff's mind when the game is on the line.

Brunson/IQ/MM
DDV/Grimes
Barrett/Hart
Randle
Robinson/Hart/Sims

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:Grimes game could be patterned after Klay Thompson. A dead eye shooter that learned to move without the ball to get open, and the fundamentals to create space with it. Sort of Allan Houstan like.
Season to season break out would be great but incremental growth is just fine also.
Im assuming DDV had a promise that he could compete to start. Grimes will be in rotation but starter minutes might not be a given.
So before we anoint him the next KlayPenny, lets see how it starts.

DDV just happy to hang out with his bros

DDV https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...
Q https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...

I can't speak about promises to start, but I think Q needs to come into camp believing he has to earn that starting role again. Q might have the higher upside still, but DDV has solid per-36 numbers on real sample size, chemistry with Brunson and Hart. He is the better player today. I think Q freezing when pressed has to be on the staff's mind when the game is on the line.

Brunson/IQ/MM
DDV/Grimes
Barrett/Hart
Randle
Robinson/Hart/Sims

I don’t know how folks evaluate players or think about how the coaching staff thinks about the players the Knicks have, but some of these statements seem absolutely whacky to me.

Thibs loves Grimes. Like he wants Grimes to be his son loves him. Grimes never leaves the gym cause Thibs never leaves the gym cause Grimes and IQ are still practicing cause they all loves the gym. Thibs was probably the biggest proponent of Grimes for where the Knicks draft pick was and Thibs probably wasn’t the only guy fighting for first in line for drafting Grimes. And that’s just to start.

Now, I love DDV and I’m sure the Knicks staff does too, but their ain’t no way in hell there is more than a very polite skosh of a thought to which guy will start. For lots of reasons. Easy ones that that should pop out and give us a very peppy, that-a-boy smack in the ass.

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:Grimes game could be patterned after Klay Thompson. A dead eye shooter that learned to move without the ball to get open, and the fundamentals to create space with it. Sort of Allan Houstan like.
Season to season break out would be great but incremental growth is just fine also.
Im assuming DDV had a promise that he could compete to start. Grimes will be in rotation but starter minutes might not be a given.
So before we anoint him the next KlayPenny, lets see how it starts.

DDV just happy to hang out with his bros

DDV https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...
Q https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...

I can't speak about promises to start, but I think Q needs to come into camp believing he has to earn that starting role again. Q might have the higher upside still, but DDV has solid per-36 numbers on real sample size, chemistry with Brunson and Hart. He is the better player today. I think Q freezing when pressed has to be on the staff's mind when the game is on the line.

Brunson/IQ/MM
DDV/Grimes
Barrett/Hart
Randle
Robinson/Hart/Sims

I don’t know how folks evaluate players or think about how the coaching staff thinks about the players the Knicks have, but some of these statements seem absolutely whacky to me.

Thibs loves Grimes. Like he wants Grimes to be his son loves him. Grimes never leaves the gym cause Thibs never leaves the gym cause Grimes and IQ are still practicing cause they all loves the gym. Thibs was probably the biggest proponent of Grimes for where the Knicks draft pick was and Thibs probably wasn’t the only guy fighting for first in line for drafting Grimes. And that’s just to start.

Now, I love DDV and I’m sure the Knicks staff does too, but their ain’t no way in hell there is more than a very polite skosh of a thought to which guy will start. For lots of reasons. Easy ones that that should pop out and give us a very peppy, that-a-boy smack in the ass.

Thibs Loves Grimes - Thibs

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/sny_knicks/status/1482076146216935424?lang=en

Click here to view the Tweet

Thibs is gonna love DDV - Kerr
https://nypost.com/2023/07/11/tom-thibod...

Thibs loves veterans. - Thibodeau
https://clutchpoints.com/knicks-news-kem...

I am not saying Grimes is losing his job. I am saying he better come to camp prepared to fight for it. There is a difference.

All I know is the first three game losing streak and the Thibs bashing starts for not giving ____ enough minutes and ____ too many. Check that - first two game losing streak. I mean one. I mean first blown lead in a game we win.

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:Grimes game could be patterned after Klay Thompson. A dead eye shooter that learned to move without the ball to get open, and the fundamentals to create space with it. Sort of Allan Houstan like.
Season to season break out would be great but incremental growth is just fine also.
Im assuming DDV had a promise that he could compete to start. Grimes will be in rotation but starter minutes might not be a given.
So before we anoint him the next KlayPenny, lets see how it starts.

DDV just happy to hang out with his bros

DDV https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...
Q https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...

I can't speak about promises to start, but I think Q needs to come into camp believing he has to earn that starting role again. Q might have the higher upside still, but DDV has solid per-36 numbers on real sample size, chemistry with Brunson and Hart. He is the better player today. I think Q freezing when pressed has to be on the staff's mind when the game is on the line.

Brunson/IQ/MM
DDV/Grimes
Barrett/Hart
Randle
Robinson/Hart/Sims

I don’t know how folks evaluate players or think about how the coaching staff thinks about the players the Knicks have, but some of these statements seem absolutely whacky to me.

Thibs loves Grimes. Like he wants Grimes to be his son loves him. Grimes never leaves the gym cause Thibs never leaves the gym cause Grimes and IQ are still practicing cause they all loves the gym. Thibs was probably the biggest proponent of Grimes for where the Knicks draft pick was and Thibs probably wasn’t the only guy fighting for first in line for drafting Grimes. And that’s just to start.

Now, I love DDV and I’m sure the Knicks staff does too, but their ain’t no way in hell there is more than a very polite skosh of a thought to which guy will start. For lots of reasons. Easy ones that that should pop out and give us a very peppy, that-a-boy smack in the ass.

Thibs Loves Grimes - Thibs

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/sny_knicks/status/1482076146216935424?lang=en

Click here to view the Tweet

Thibs is gonna love DDV - Kerr
https://nypost.com/2023/07/11/tom-thibod...

Thibs loves veterans. - Thibodeau
https://clutchpoints.com/knicks-news-kem...

I am not saying Grimes is losing his job. I am saying he better come to camp prepared to fight for it. There is a difference.

Well you also did say DDV is better right now than Grimes - unless I got the pronoun pointed to the wrong player - and that’s arguable at best, far flung wrong at worst.

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:Grimes game could be patterned after Klay Thompson. A dead eye shooter that learned to move without the ball to get open, and the fundamentals to create space with it. Sort of Allan Houstan like.
Season to season break out would be great but incremental growth is just fine also.
Im assuming DDV had a promise that he could compete to start. Grimes will be in rotation but starter minutes might not be a given.
So before we anoint him the next KlayPenny, lets see how it starts.

DDV just happy to hang out with his bros

DDV https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...
Q https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...

I can't speak about promises to start, but I think Q needs to come into camp believing he has to earn that starting role again. Q might have the higher upside still, but DDV has solid per-36 numbers on real sample size, chemistry with Brunson and Hart. He is the better player today. I think Q freezing when pressed has to be on the staff's mind when the game is on the line.

Brunson/IQ/MM
DDV/Grimes
Barrett/Hart
Randle
Robinson/Hart/Sims

I don’t know how folks evaluate players or think about how the coaching staff thinks about the players the Knicks have, but some of these statements seem absolutely whacky to me.

Thibs loves Grimes. Like he wants Grimes to be his son loves him. Grimes never leaves the gym cause Thibs never leaves the gym cause Grimes and IQ are still practicing cause they all loves the gym. Thibs was probably the biggest proponent of Grimes for where the Knicks draft pick was and Thibs probably wasn’t the only guy fighting for first in line for drafting Grimes. And that’s just to start.

Now, I love DDV and I’m sure the Knicks staff does too, but their ain’t no way in hell there is more than a very polite skosh of a thought to which guy will start. For lots of reasons. Easy ones that that should pop out and give us a very peppy, that-a-boy smack in the ass.

Thibs Loves Grimes - Thibs

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/sny_knicks/status/1482076146216935424?lang=en

Click here to view the Tweet

Thibs is gonna love DDV - Kerr
https://nypost.com/2023/07/11/tom-thibod...

Thibs loves veterans. - Thibodeau
https://clutchpoints.com/knicks-news-kem...

I am not saying Grimes is losing his job. I am saying he better come to camp prepared to fight for it. There is a difference.

Well you also did say DDV is better right now than Grimes - unless I got the pronoun pointed to the wrong player - and that’s arguable at best, far flung wrong at worst.

I provided the links to stats to back it up. I’ll listen to your argument though.

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:Grimes game could be patterned after Klay Thompson. A dead eye shooter that learned to move without the ball to get open, and the fundamentals to create space with it. Sort of Allan Houstan like.
Season to season break out would be great but incremental growth is just fine also.
Im assuming DDV had a promise that he could compete to start. Grimes will be in rotation but starter minutes might not be a given.
So before we anoint him the next KlayPenny, lets see how it starts.

DDV just happy to hang out with his bros

DDV https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...
Q https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...

I can't speak about promises to start, but I think Q needs to come into camp believing he has to earn that starting role again. Q might have the higher upside still, but DDV has solid per-36 numbers on real sample size, chemistry with Brunson and Hart. He is the better player today. I think Q freezing when pressed has to be on the staff's mind when the game is on the line.

Brunson/IQ/MM
DDV/Grimes
Barrett/Hart
Randle
Robinson/Hart/Sims

I don’t know how folks evaluate players or think about how the coaching staff thinks about the players the Knicks have, but some of these statements seem absolutely whacky to me.

Thibs loves Grimes. Like he wants Grimes to be his son loves him. Grimes never leaves the gym cause Thibs never leaves the gym cause Grimes and IQ are still practicing cause they all loves the gym. Thibs was probably the biggest proponent of Grimes for where the Knicks draft pick was and Thibs probably wasn’t the only guy fighting for first in line for drafting Grimes. And that’s just to start.

Now, I love DDV and I’m sure the Knicks staff does too, but their ain’t no way in hell there is more than a very polite skosh of a thought to which guy will start. For lots of reasons. Easy ones that that should pop out and give us a very peppy, that-a-boy smack in the ass.

Thibs Loves Grimes - Thibs

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/sny_knicks/status/1482076146216935424?lang=en

Click here to view the Tweet

Thibs is gonna love DDV - Kerr
https://nypost.com/2023/07/11/tom-thibod...

Thibs loves veterans. - Thibodeau
https://clutchpoints.com/knicks-news-kem...

I am not saying Grimes is losing his job. I am saying he better come to camp prepared to fight for it. There is a difference.

Well you also did say DDV is better right now than Grimes - unless I got the pronoun pointed to the wrong player - and that’s arguable at best, far flung wrong at worst.

I provided the links to stats to back it up. I’ll listen to your argument though.

There are links to a lot of data that show a lot of things that both guys are better and worse or very similar to the other guy.

It doesn’t even matter what you and I think.

Grimes will be starting at it’s not a close decision.

DDV is a really nice role player whose value to pretty much all teams in the league is around the MLE.

Grimes both has the potential and very close to being in the range of production of near double that.

EwingsGlass wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:Woah! I compared DDC to Brown, not Giannis. My comp was more bang for the buck, but poorly written and argued.

Remember that time Grady compare Obi Toppin to Amare Stoudemire. Oh wait. That was me.

Remember that time Grady compared Obi Toppin to Shawn Marion? Oh wait. That was me.

SupremeCommander wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:Woah! I compared DDC to Brown, not Giannis. My comp was more bang for the buck, but poorly written and argued.

Remember that time Grady compare Obi Toppin to Amare Stoudemire. Oh wait. That was me.

Remember that time Grady compared Obi Toppin to Shawn Marion? Oh wait. That was me.

that's a decent comparison.

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:Grimes game could be patterned after Klay Thompson. A dead eye shooter that learned to move without the ball to get open, and the fundamentals to create space with it. Sort of Allan Houstan like.
Season to season break out would be great but incremental growth is just fine also.
Im assuming DDV had a promise that he could compete to start. Grimes will be in rotation but starter minutes might not be a given.
So before we anoint him the next KlayPenny, lets see how it starts.

DDV just happy to hang out with his bros

DDV https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...
Q https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...

I can't speak about promises to start, but I think Q needs to come into camp believing he has to earn that starting role again. Q might have the higher upside still, but DDV has solid per-36 numbers on real sample size, chemistry with Brunson and Hart. He is the better player today. I think Q freezing when pressed has to be on the staff's mind when the game is on the line.

Brunson/IQ/MM
DDV/Grimes
Barrett/Hart
Randle
Robinson/Hart/Sims

I don’t know how folks evaluate players or think about how the coaching staff thinks about the players the Knicks have, but some of these statements seem absolutely whacky to me.

Thibs loves Grimes. Like he wants Grimes to be his son loves him. Grimes never leaves the gym cause Thibs never leaves the gym cause Grimes and IQ are still practicing cause they all loves the gym. Thibs was probably the biggest proponent of Grimes for where the Knicks draft pick was and Thibs probably wasn’t the only guy fighting for first in line for drafting Grimes. And that’s just to start.

Now, I love DDV and I’m sure the Knicks staff does too, but their ain’t no way in hell there is more than a very polite skosh of a thought to which guy will start. For lots of reasons. Easy ones that that should pop out and give us a very peppy, that-a-boy smack in the ass.

Thibs Loves Grimes - Thibs

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/sny_knicks/status/1482076146216935424?lang=en

Click here to view the Tweet

Thibs is gonna love DDV - Kerr
https://nypost.com/2023/07/11/tom-thibod...

Thibs loves veterans. - Thibodeau
https://clutchpoints.com/knicks-news-kem...

I am not saying Grimes is losing his job. I am saying he better come to camp prepared to fight for it. There is a difference.

Well you also did say DDV is better right now than Grimes - unless I got the pronoun pointed to the wrong player - and that’s arguable at best, far flung wrong at worst.

I provided the links to stats to back it up. I’ll listen to your argument though.

There are links to a lot of data that show a lot of things that both guys are better and worse or very similar to the other guy.

It doesn’t even matter what you and I think.

Grimes will be starting at it’s not a close decision.

DDV is a really nice role player whose value to pretty much all teams in the league is around the MLE.

Grimes both has the potential and very close to being in the range of production of near double that.

This is the exact reason I don't like advanced stats. I argued this point with you like 6 months ago and you thought I was an idiot for thinking that.

TheMTL wrote:I love Grimes but I don't think he'll ever be given the green light to a franchise like Mikael Bridges. Heck, Bridges didn't even think he would be given the green light to a franchise lol.

It seems like Grimes is exclusively working on becoming just a 3-D player with strong cuts to the basket. I would live to see more but then again we would need a coach to encourage that

If thats all Grimes is working on, then he shouldnt be penciled in as a starter. Has no midrange game to speak of. Must have for a starting SG.

joec32033 wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:Grimes game could be patterned after Klay Thompson. A dead eye shooter that learned to move without the ball to get open, and the fundamentals to create space with it. Sort of Allan Houstan like.
Season to season break out would be great but incremental growth is just fine also.
Im assuming DDV had a promise that he could compete to start. Grimes will be in rotation but starter minutes might not be a given.
So before we anoint him the next KlayPenny, lets see how it starts.

DDV just happy to hang out with his bros

DDV https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...
Q https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...

I can't speak about promises to start, but I think Q needs to come into camp believing he has to earn that starting role again. Q might have the higher upside still, but DDV has solid per-36 numbers on real sample size, chemistry with Brunson and Hart. He is the better player today. I think Q freezing when pressed has to be on the staff's mind when the game is on the line.

Brunson/IQ/MM
DDV/Grimes
Barrett/Hart
Randle
Robinson/Hart/Sims

I don’t know how folks evaluate players or think about how the coaching staff thinks about the players the Knicks have, but some of these statements seem absolutely whacky to me.

Thibs loves Grimes. Like he wants Grimes to be his son loves him. Grimes never leaves the gym cause Thibs never leaves the gym cause Grimes and IQ are still practicing cause they all loves the gym. Thibs was probably the biggest proponent of Grimes for where the Knicks draft pick was and Thibs probably wasn’t the only guy fighting for first in line for drafting Grimes. And that’s just to start.

Now, I love DDV and I’m sure the Knicks staff does too, but their ain’t no way in hell there is more than a very polite skosh of a thought to which guy will start. For lots of reasons. Easy ones that that should pop out and give us a very peppy, that-a-boy smack in the ass.

Thibs Loves Grimes - Thibs

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/sny_knicks/status/1482076146216935424?lang=en

Click here to view the Tweet

Thibs is gonna love DDV - Kerr
https://nypost.com/2023/07/11/tom-thibod...

Thibs loves veterans. - Thibodeau
https://clutchpoints.com/knicks-news-kem...

I am not saying Grimes is losing his job. I am saying he better come to camp prepared to fight for it. There is a difference.

Well you also did say DDV is better right now than Grimes - unless I got the pronoun pointed to the wrong player - and that’s arguable at best, far flung wrong at worst.

I provided the links to stats to back it up. I’ll listen to your argument though.

There are links to a lot of data that show a lot of things that both guys are better and worse or very similar to the other guy.

It doesn’t even matter what you and I think.

Grimes will be starting at it’s not a close decision.

DDV is a really nice role player whose value to pretty much all teams in the league is around the MLE.

Grimes both has the potential and very close to being in the range of production of near double that.

This is the exact reason I don't like advanced stats. I argued this point with you like 6 months ago and you thought I was an idiot for thinking that.

I mean, there is a difference between what Martin is saying -- that comparing the stats between Grimes and DDV doesn't definitively show DDV is better than Grimes and what you are saying -- that you think advanced stats are meaningless because you don't understand them.

I can accept Martin's position that its not clear as day that DDV is better than Grimes. I just think its arguable when you compare Grimes 15bps of efg advantage to the increase in rebounds, assists and steals that DDV brings.

I'm saying that Grimes may be in for a fight for that starting role. Martin is saying I am out of my mind that Grimes has the position locked.

I hope they walk into camp having to fight for that job. Competition is healthy.