Knicks · M Bridges vs Q Grimes (page 3)

EwingsGlass @ 8/25/2023 9:40 AM
joec32033 wrote:
martin wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:
Nalod wrote:Grimes game could be patterned after Klay Thompson. A dead eye shooter that learned to move without the ball to get open, and the fundamentals to create space with it. Sort of Allan Houstan like.
Season to season break out would be great but incremental growth is just fine also.
Im assuming DDV had a promise that he could compete to start. Grimes will be in rotation but starter minutes might not be a given.
So before we anoint him the next KlayPenny, lets see how it starts.

DDV just happy to hang out with his bros

DDV https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...
Q https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...

I can't speak about promises to start, but I think Q needs to come into camp believing he has to earn that starting role again. Q might have the higher upside still, but DDV has solid per-36 numbers on real sample size, chemistry with Brunson and Hart. He is the better player today. I think Q freezing when pressed has to be on the staff's mind when the game is on the line.

Brunson/IQ/MM
DDV/Grimes
Barrett/Hart
Randle
Robinson/Hart/Sims

I don’t know how folks evaluate players or think about how the coaching staff thinks about the players the Knicks have, but some of these statements seem absolutely whacky to me.

Thibs loves Grimes. Like he wants Grimes to be his son loves him. Grimes never leaves the gym cause Thibs never leaves the gym cause Grimes and IQ are still practicing cause they all loves the gym. Thibs was probably the biggest proponent of Grimes for where the Knicks draft pick was and Thibs probably wasn’t the only guy fighting for first in line for drafting Grimes. And that’s just to start.

Now, I love DDV and I’m sure the Knicks staff does too, but their ain’t no way in hell there is more than a very polite skosh of a thought to which guy will start. For lots of reasons. Easy ones that that should pop out and give us a very peppy, that-a-boy smack in the ass.

Thibs Loves Grimes - Thibs

Thibs is gonna love DDV - Kerr
https://nypost.com/2023/07/11/tom-thibod...

Thibs loves veterans. - Thibodeau
https://clutchpoints.com/knicks-news-kem...

I am not saying Grimes is losing his job. I am saying he better come to camp prepared to fight for it. There is a difference.

Well you also did say DDV is better right now than Grimes - unless I got the pronoun pointed to the wrong player - and that’s arguable at best, far flung wrong at worst.

I provided the links to stats to back it up. I’ll listen to your argument though.

There are links to a lot of data that show a lot of things that both guys are better and worse or very similar to the other guy.

It doesn’t even matter what you and I think.

Grimes will be starting at it’s not a close decision.

DDV is a really nice role player whose value to pretty much all teams in the league is around the MLE.

Grimes both has the potential and very close to being in the range of production of near double that.

This is the exact reason I don't like advanced stats. I argued this point with you like 6 months ago and you thought I was an idiot for thinking that.

I mean, there is a difference between what Martin is saying -- that comparing the stats between Grimes and DDV doesn't definitively show DDV is better than Grimes and what you are saying -- that you think advanced stats are meaningless because you don't understand them.

I can accept Martin's position that its not clear as day that DDV is better than Grimes. I just think its arguable when you compare Grimes 15bps of efg advantage to the increase in rebounds, assists and steals that DDV brings.

I'm saying that Grimes may be in for a fight for that starting role. Martin is saying I am out of my mind that Grimes has the position locked.

I hope they walk into camp having to fight for that job. Competition is healthy.

EwingPSD @ 8/25/2023 9:51 AM
EwingsGlass wrote:
joec32033 wrote:
martin wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:
Nalod wrote:Grimes game could be patterned after Klay Thompson. A dead eye shooter that learned to move without the ball to get open, and the fundamentals to create space with it. Sort of Allan Houstan like.
Season to season break out would be great but incremental growth is just fine also.
Im assuming DDV had a promise that he could compete to start. Grimes will be in rotation but starter minutes might not be a given.
So before we anoint him the next KlayPenny, lets see how it starts.

DDV just happy to hang out with his bros

DDV https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...
Q https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...

I can't speak about promises to start, but I think Q needs to come into camp believing he has to earn that starting role again. Q might have the higher upside still, but DDV has solid per-36 numbers on real sample size, chemistry with Brunson and Hart. He is the better player today. I think Q freezing when pressed has to be on the staff's mind when the game is on the line.

Brunson/IQ/MM
DDV/Grimes
Barrett/Hart
Randle
Robinson/Hart/Sims

I don’t know how folks evaluate players or think about how the coaching staff thinks about the players the Knicks have, but some of these statements seem absolutely whacky to me.

Thibs loves Grimes. Like he wants Grimes to be his son loves him. Grimes never leaves the gym cause Thibs never leaves the gym cause Grimes and IQ are still practicing cause they all loves the gym. Thibs was probably the biggest proponent of Grimes for where the Knicks draft pick was and Thibs probably wasn’t the only guy fighting for first in line for drafting Grimes. And that’s just to start.

Now, I love DDV and I’m sure the Knicks staff does too, but their ain’t no way in hell there is more than a very polite skosh of a thought to which guy will start. For lots of reasons. Easy ones that that should pop out and give us a very peppy, that-a-boy smack in the ass.

Thibs Loves Grimes - Thibs

Thibs is gonna love DDV - Kerr
https://nypost.com/2023/07/11/tom-thibod...

Thibs loves veterans. - Thibodeau
https://clutchpoints.com/knicks-news-kem...

I am not saying Grimes is losing his job. I am saying he better come to camp prepared to fight for it. There is a difference.

Well you also did say DDV is better right now than Grimes - unless I got the pronoun pointed to the wrong player - and that’s arguable at best, far flung wrong at worst.

I provided the links to stats to back it up. I’ll listen to your argument though.

There are links to a lot of data that show a lot of things that both guys are better and worse or very similar to the other guy.

It doesn’t even matter what you and I think.

Grimes will be starting at it’s not a close decision.

DDV is a really nice role player whose value to pretty much all teams in the league is around the MLE.

Grimes both has the potential and very close to being in the range of production of near double that.

This is the exact reason I don't like advanced stats. I argued this point with you like 6 months ago and you thought I was an idiot for thinking that.

I mean, there is a difference between what Martin is saying -- that comparing the stats between Grimes and DDV doesn't definitively show DDV is better than Grimes and what you are saying -- that you think advanced stats are meaningless because you don't understand them.

I can accept Martin's position that its not clear as day that DDV is better than Grimes. I just think its arguable when you compare Grimes 15bps of efg advantage to the increase in rebounds, assists and steals that DDV brings.

I'm saying that Grimes may be in for a fight for that starting role. Martin is saying I am out of my mind that Grimes has the position locked.

I hope they walk into camp having to fight for that job. Competition is healthy.

I don't. I don't think DDV is better than QG. I think if he was it would be by a very thin margin. I also don't think DVV really has a ceiling higher than what he's already produced. On the other hand, I firmly expect QG to get better. I would be surprised if Grimes given 30 mins a night again isn't better by season end than DVV at his peak.

martin @ 8/25/2023 10:24 AM
joec32033 wrote:
martin wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:
Nalod wrote:Grimes game could be patterned after Klay Thompson. A dead eye shooter that learned to move without the ball to get open, and the fundamentals to create space with it. Sort of Allan Houstan like.
Season to season break out would be great but incremental growth is just fine also.
Im assuming DDV had a promise that he could compete to start. Grimes will be in rotation but starter minutes might not be a given.
So before we anoint him the next KlayPenny, lets see how it starts.

DDV just happy to hang out with his bros

DDV https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...
Q https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...

I can't speak about promises to start, but I think Q needs to come into camp believing he has to earn that starting role again. Q might have the higher upside still, but DDV has solid per-36 numbers on real sample size, chemistry with Brunson and Hart. He is the better player today. I think Q freezing when pressed has to be on the staff's mind when the game is on the line.

Brunson/IQ/MM
DDV/Grimes
Barrett/Hart
Randle
Robinson/Hart/Sims

I don’t know how folks evaluate players or think about how the coaching staff thinks about the players the Knicks have, but some of these statements seem absolutely whacky to me.

Thibs loves Grimes. Like he wants Grimes to be his son loves him. Grimes never leaves the gym cause Thibs never leaves the gym cause Grimes and IQ are still practicing cause they all loves the gym. Thibs was probably the biggest proponent of Grimes for where the Knicks draft pick was and Thibs probably wasn’t the only guy fighting for first in line for drafting Grimes. And that’s just to start.

Now, I love DDV and I’m sure the Knicks staff does too, but their ain’t no way in hell there is more than a very polite skosh of a thought to which guy will start. For lots of reasons. Easy ones that that should pop out and give us a very peppy, that-a-boy smack in the ass.

Thibs Loves Grimes - Thibs

Thibs is gonna love DDV - Kerr
https://nypost.com/2023/07/11/tom-thibod...

Thibs loves veterans. - Thibodeau
https://clutchpoints.com/knicks-news-kem...

I am not saying Grimes is losing his job. I am saying he better come to camp prepared to fight for it. There is a difference.

Well you also did say DDV is better right now than Grimes - unless I got the pronoun pointed to the wrong player - and that’s arguable at best, far flung wrong at worst.

I provided the links to stats to back it up. I’ll listen to your argument though.

There are links to a lot of data that show a lot of things that both guys are better and worse or very similar to the other guy.

It doesn’t even matter what you and I think.

Grimes will be starting at it’s not a close decision.

DDV is a really nice role player whose value to pretty much all teams in the league is around the MLE.

Grimes both has the potential and very close to being in the range of production of near double that.

This is the exact reason I don't like advanced stats. I argued this point with you like 6 months ago and you thought I was an idiot for thinking that.

Advanced stats are there to hopefully better inform us about player and how they do for certain things.

Linking to a stats page for 2 players with the glossy "this player is better than that player" without anything else is just hand waiving (unless it is a readily obvious comparison like prime Kobe versus McBride).

Advanced stats can inform us but you do need to understand how those stats are gathered and what they mean. I find them useful. But if you don't delve into how they work, then of course they will not be meaningful for you.

joec32033 @ 8/28/2023 12:39 AM
EwingsGlass wrote:
joec32033 wrote:
martin wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:
Nalod wrote:Grimes game could be patterned after Klay Thompson. A dead eye shooter that learned to move without the ball to get open, and the fundamentals to create space with it. Sort of Allan Houstan like.
Season to season break out would be great but incremental growth is just fine also.
Im assuming DDV had a promise that he could compete to start. Grimes will be in rotation but starter minutes might not be a given.
So before we anoint him the next KlayPenny, lets see how it starts.

DDV just happy to hang out with his bros

DDV https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...
Q https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...

I can't speak about promises to start, but I think Q needs to come into camp believing he has to earn that starting role again. Q might have the higher upside still, but DDV has solid per-36 numbers on real sample size, chemistry with Brunson and Hart. He is the better player today. I think Q freezing when pressed has to be on the staff's mind when the game is on the line.

Brunson/IQ/MM
DDV/Grimes
Barrett/Hart
Randle
Robinson/Hart/Sims

I don’t know how folks evaluate players or think about how the coaching staff thinks about the players the Knicks have, but some of these statements seem absolutely whacky to me.

Thibs loves Grimes. Like he wants Grimes to be his son loves him. Grimes never leaves the gym cause Thibs never leaves the gym cause Grimes and IQ are still practicing cause they all loves the gym. Thibs was probably the biggest proponent of Grimes for where the Knicks draft pick was and Thibs probably wasn’t the only guy fighting for first in line for drafting Grimes. And that’s just to start.

Now, I love DDV and I’m sure the Knicks staff does too, but their ain’t no way in hell there is more than a very polite skosh of a thought to which guy will start. For lots of reasons. Easy ones that that should pop out and give us a very peppy, that-a-boy smack in the ass.

Thibs Loves Grimes - Thibs

Thibs is gonna love DDV - Kerr
https://nypost.com/2023/07/11/tom-thibod...

Thibs loves veterans. - Thibodeau
https://clutchpoints.com/knicks-news-kem...

I am not saying Grimes is losing his job. I am saying he better come to camp prepared to fight for it. There is a difference.

Well you also did say DDV is better right now than Grimes - unless I got the pronoun pointed to the wrong player - and that’s arguable at best, far flung wrong at worst.

I provided the links to stats to back it up. I’ll listen to your argument though.

There are links to a lot of data that show a lot of things that both guys are better and worse or very similar to the other guy.

It doesn’t even matter what you and I think.

Grimes will be starting at it’s not a close decision.

DDV is a really nice role player whose value to pretty much all teams in the league is around the MLE.

Grimes both has the potential and very close to being in the range of production of near double that.

This is the exact reason I don't like advanced stats. I argued this point with you like 6 months ago and you thought I was an idiot for thinking that.

I mean, there is a difference between what Martin is saying -- that comparing the stats between Grimes and DDV doesn't definitively show DDV is better than Grimes and what you are saying -- that you think advanced stats are meaningless because you don't understand them.

I can accept Martin's position that its not clear as day that DDV is better than Grimes. I just think its arguable when you compare Grimes 15bps of efg advantage to the increase in rebounds, assists and steals that DDV brings.

I'm saying that Grimes may be in for a fight for that starting role. Martin is saying I am out of my mind that Grimes has the position locked.

I hope they walk into camp having to fight for that job. Competition is healthy.

There is a difference between not understanding and realizing that some advanced stats are over thinking.

Some of the more, diluted shall we say, advanced stats are close to useless (not totally useless...you can probably glean some type of information from everything). But to say that some advanced stats can present ....arbitrary....results does seem to be a knock on which stats should be viewed as the most reliable.

I'm not going to hijack the thread however. I'm at peace that I got my point across. Whether you agree or disagree, I'm comfortable with both.

joec32033 @ 8/28/2023 12:43 AM
martin wrote:
joec32033 wrote:
martin wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:
Nalod wrote:Grimes game could be patterned after Klay Thompson. A dead eye shooter that learned to move without the ball to get open, and the fundamentals to create space with it. Sort of Allan Houstan like.
Season to season break out would be great but incremental growth is just fine also.
Im assuming DDV had a promise that he could compete to start. Grimes will be in rotation but starter minutes might not be a given.
So before we anoint him the next KlayPenny, lets see how it starts.

DDV just happy to hang out with his bros

DDV https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...
Q https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...

I can't speak about promises to start, but I think Q needs to come into camp believing he has to earn that starting role again. Q might have the higher upside still, but DDV has solid per-36 numbers on real sample size, chemistry with Brunson and Hart. He is the better player today. I think Q freezing when pressed has to be on the staff's mind when the game is on the line.

Brunson/IQ/MM
DDV/Grimes
Barrett/Hart
Randle
Robinson/Hart/Sims

I don’t know how folks evaluate players or think about how the coaching staff thinks about the players the Knicks have, but some of these statements seem absolutely whacky to me.

Thibs loves Grimes. Like he wants Grimes to be his son loves him. Grimes never leaves the gym cause Thibs never leaves the gym cause Grimes and IQ are still practicing cause they all loves the gym. Thibs was probably the biggest proponent of Grimes for where the Knicks draft pick was and Thibs probably wasn’t the only guy fighting for first in line for drafting Grimes. And that’s just to start.

Now, I love DDV and I’m sure the Knicks staff does too, but their ain’t no way in hell there is more than a very polite skosh of a thought to which guy will start. For lots of reasons. Easy ones that that should pop out and give us a very peppy, that-a-boy smack in the ass.

Thibs Loves Grimes - Thibs

Thibs is gonna love DDV - Kerr
https://nypost.com/2023/07/11/tom-thibod...

Thibs loves veterans. - Thibodeau
https://clutchpoints.com/knicks-news-kem...

I am not saying Grimes is losing his job. I am saying he better come to camp prepared to fight for it. There is a difference.

Well you also did say DDV is better right now than Grimes - unless I got the pronoun pointed to the wrong player - and that’s arguable at best, far flung wrong at worst.

I provided the links to stats to back it up. I’ll listen to your argument though.

There are links to a lot of data that show a lot of things that both guys are better and worse or very similar to the other guy.

It doesn’t even matter what you and I think.

Grimes will be starting at it’s not a close decision.

DDV is a really nice role player whose value to pretty much all teams in the league is around the MLE.

Grimes both has the potential and very close to being in the range of production of near double that.

This is the exact reason I don't like advanced stats. I argued this point with you like 6 months ago and you thought I was an idiot for thinking that.

Advanced stats are there to hopefully better inform us about player and how they do for certain things.

Linking to a stats page for 2 players with the glossy "this player is better than that player" without anything else is just hand waiving (unless it is a readily obvious comparison like prime Kobe versus McBride).

Advanced stats can inform us but you do need to understand how those stats are gathered and what they mean. I find them useful. But if you don't delve into how they work, then of course they will not be meaningful for you.

The bolded is fair. I am sure they at some people can find them useful under different circumstances. You can always gather knowledge from everything, if you look hard enough.

I don't want to hijack the thread with this, I just wanted to give you a bit of a hard time, a bit of a nudge because of how you worded that response.

fishmike @ 9/6/2023 10:23 AM
GustavBahler wrote:
TheMTL wrote:I love Grimes but I don't think he'll ever be given the green light to a franchise like Mikael Bridges. Heck, Bridges didn't even think he would be given the green light to a franchise lol.

It seems like Grimes is exclusively working on becoming just a 3-D player with strong cuts to the basket. I would live to see more but then again we would need a coach to encourage that

If thats all Grimes is working on, then he shouldnt be penciled in as a starter. Has no midrange game to speak of. Must have for a starting SG.

Klay Thompson has entered the chat. Must have? Ahhh.... no.

Is there a better defensive player on the wing on this team? I dont believe there is. Josh Hart is very good but he's simply not as quick as Grimes.

Grimes and Mitch absolutely anchor this team's defense. Especially with Obi gone and RJ/Hart likely getting those minutes Grime's minutes and starting role are just fine. There's a reason Grimes played 48 minutes in the season's most important game.

Grimes and IQ really represent the roster upside and that's mostly because I dont have high hopes for RJ beyond what he is.

GustavBahler @ 9/6/2023 3:47 PM
fishmike wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
TheMTL wrote:I love Grimes but I don't think he'll ever be given the green light to a franchise like Mikael Bridges. Heck, Bridges didn't even think he would be given the green light to a franchise lol.

It seems like Grimes is exclusively working on becoming just a 3-D player with strong cuts to the basket. I would live to see more but then again we would need a coach to encourage that

If thats all Grimes is working on, then he shouldnt be penciled in as a starter. Has no midrange game to speak of. Must have for a starting SG.

Klay Thompson has entered the chat. Must have? Ahhh.... no.

Is there a better defensive player on the wing on this team? I dont believe there is. Josh Hart is very good but he's simply not as quick as Grimes.

Grimes and Mitch absolutely anchor this team's defense. Especially with Obi gone and RJ/Hart likely getting those minutes Grime's minutes and starting role are just fine. There's a reason Grimes played 48 minutes in the season's most important game.

Grimes and IQ really represent the roster upside and that's mostly because I dont have high hopes for RJ beyond what he is.

Klay Thompson can hit a floater, Grimes hasn't shown that ability yet. Klay is also one of the best shooters of all time. If he leans more on his outside game, he has a good excuse. Grimes doesn't.

Its a lot easier to stop a shooter when they only can get to the rim if they have the lane. Grimes hasnt shown the confidence in his dribble to get past defenders, unless he has a clear path to the basket. Almost all starting SGs have the ability to hit a floater, or a midrange jumper, if the defense is too stout.

As of now, IQ fits the bill. DDV? Remains to be seen. Grimes isnt there yet. I dont see us contending with a starting SG who cant hit a floater. Not saying he never will. We'll see what happens this season.

Nalod @ 9/6/2023 5:00 PM
IF IQ was a a bit bigger, then he is the man.
Grimes can be.
DDV could compete for the gig.
Said it many times, RJ just needs to tighten up his % a bit. He is not that far off.
But he is not there, that I admit.
We are about continuity this off season. Whose predications are accurate?
Its why they play the games.....
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