Knicks · Obi is Pissed/IQ Hyped (page 1)
Obi is not a $100 mill player...but $146 mill for Vassell...admittedly did not watch a lot of spurs but damn...
IQ on the other hand is telling his agent to thrown another $30-$40 mill onto the ask....
I think this deal helps IQ's negotiating power. It's a matter of whether he values being here as a Knick vs maximizing his income and potential stardom.
ToddTT wrote:They’re too much money flying around. WHAT DO WE GET?!?
We get Brunson for 4 year $104M on the open market.
And then get laughed at 🤷♂️
martin wrote:ToddTT wrote:They’re too much money flying around. WHAT DO WE GET?!?We get Brunson for 4 year $104M on the open market.
And then get laughed at 🤷♂️
No man. I think WE should get paid. Plus back-pay for the last 20 years.
10/3 5:09pm: Vassell’s extension is a straight five-year deal with no options and features $135MM in guaranteed money, according to Michael Scotto of HoopsHype, who reports (via Twitter) that Vassell
Might want to gander at this article. The kid showed something last year despite playing only 32 games. https://www.si.com/nba/spurs/news/san-an...
I don't know what IQ salary will be worth, but fans tend to over value our own sometimes.
IQ has yet to put a full season together.
Why is obi pissed btw?
By Greg Doyel, in today’s Indianapolis Star:
“Obi Toppin, the latest intriguing young veteran to cycle through our NBA city, is cycling through the photo portion of Indiana Pacers’ media day. This is Monday morning at the Ascension St. Vincent Center, and its Toppin’s turn in front of the white backdrop. He’s jumping skyward and cocking the ball way, way back – down to his waist, almost – in a pose he’ll recreate more than a few times in real life this season. Toppin’s a dunker, see. Won the 2022 NBA Slam Dunk Contest.
But he’s more than that, a mobile power forward in an NBA game geared toward players exactly like him, and he’s on the move right now. He’s in front of a sky-blue backdrop, standing still, smiling. Turn to the left – the Pacers need a profile shot. Turn to the right. No, don’t smile. Look grim.
Toppin, 25, tries to look grim. Not easy for a guy like this, a sweetheart of a young man, the kind of person who’s walking through this basketball palace as reporters follow him, and stops when he sees a little girl. She’s a kid from a local elementary school, a contest winner at her school, and her prize is to visit media day and ask questions. She’s maybe 3½ feet tall and she’s terrified, as you can imagine, and Obi sees her and walks over and bends way, way down to give her a fist to pound.
More pictures. Obi’s in front of a white backdrop again, facing the camera. Someone hands him a basketball and tells him to smile. No need for that.
Toppin's in a new city with a new coaching staff, new playing style, new point guard. It’s a new opportunity for the former college player of the year at Dayton who was drafted No. 8 overall in 2020 by the New York Knicks, who already had a star at power forward in Julius Randle. Toppin didn’t play much in New York, and when he did, he didn’t get the ball often. It was a different roster there.
Now he’s here, playing for one of the fastest teams in the NBA, alongside the most unselfish point guard in the league. And whoever’s holding the camera thinks Obi Toppin needs to be told to smile?
He has the ball in his hands. He’s smiling.
Oladipo, Sabonis, Haliburton ... Toppin?
The Pacers do this. Well, Kevin Pritchard does. Pritchard and Chad Buchanan, the leaders of a Pacers front office with a knack for finding good young players in one city, bringing them here, and watching them become something more.
Something great, oftentimes.
You know the list. Victor Oladipo was a nice player in Orlando and Oklahoma City before coming to the Pacers in 2018 and becoming an All-Star. Same for Domantas Sabonis, acquired with Oladipo in that Paul George trade, and Tyrese Haliburton – who arrived late in the 2021-22 season in exchange for Sabonis and emerged as a world-class point guard.
It happens on a smaller scale, too. Jordan Nwora was a 6.8-ppg scorer in Milwaukee who averaged 13 ppg here last season. Phoenix thought Jalen Smith was expendable in 2022, and practically gave him and his career 4.1-ppg scoring average to the Pacers, where he averaged 13.4 ppg the rest of that season. Aaron Nesmith, like Smith the year before, went from possible lottery bust in one city (Boston) to double-figure scorer here.
Which brings us to Obi Toppin, acquired this offseason from New York for the piddling sum of two second-round draft picks.
The Knicks saw someone expendable. The Pacer saw something more. What happens next? Bet the house on this: Toppin will produce a lot more here than the seven points and three rebounds he averaged with the Knicks from 2020-23. How much more? That’s one of the biggest questions in a 2023-24 NBA season full of them for the Pacers.
Who starts on the wing alongside Haliburton and Bruce Brown – Buddy Hield or Bennedict Mathurin? And how does Hield handle the inevitable demotion? How much better will the defense play, with coach Rick Carlisle demanding more from everyone? What kind of NBA player do the Pacers have in 2023 lottery pick Jarace Walker?
Doyel: Is Pacers' great chemistry at risk if Bennedict Mathurin starts ahead of Buddy Hield?
Important questions, all of them, but if Toppin is close to the Oladipo-Sabonis-Haliburton end of the spectrum – good young players in one city who become stars here – the Pacers rebuild will be only a step or two from completion.
You can see how Toppin could flourish with Indiana. Advanced NBA stats place Toppin among the league’s elite in transition offense, which means he was wasted in New York, where coach Tom Thibodeau’s grinding system – while undoubtedly effective – didn’t capitalize on Toppin’s finishing ability at the rim. The Knicks were 25th in the league in pace last season, while the Pacers were fourth.
New York’s top two point guards, Jalen Brunson and Immanuel Quickley – again, while effective – aren’t as compatible with Toppin as Haliburton will be.
Brunson last season: 6.4 assists per 36 minutes.
Quickley: 4.3 assists per 36 minutes.
Haliburton: 11.2 assists per 36 minutes.
See why Toppin is smiling?
More:'I love family environments': Why Obi Toppin is so excited to join the Pacers
'The opportunity is just different here'
Haliburton is about to talk, which means everyone in the Indianapolis media is about to listen. He takes his place in front of the Pacers’ preferred backdrop, and immediately 10-15 reporters surround him. Toppin is walking past, toward the second backdrop, and he’s taken aback.
“Damn Ty!” Obi’s shouting. “Everyone’s running to you!”
Obi continues.
“Can I get a question?”
Reporters go silent as Toppin leans in and asks the most legit question I heard all day, honestly:
“How excited,” he’s asking Haliburton, “are you to throw lobs to Mr. Obi Toppin?”
Obi walks off with a smile, where I follow him and point out the obvious: You seem happy here.
“New start, great staff, amazing staff, amazing players, everybody’s willing to help each other get better out here,” he says.
I’m mentioning what you’ve read already, how Pritchard has a track record of finding players like Toppin – whose statistical profile suggests they are a B- or C-level pro – and turning them into A-listers.
“I definitely know the history of the guys KP’s brought in,” Toppin says. “Nothing bad about New York, where those guys started my grind – being in the gym every day, multiple times every day – but the opportunity is just different here.”
Training camp will be competitive – Jarace Walker will get a long look at power forward – but Toppin figures to start after making just 15 starts in three seasons in New York. Toppin spent the summer in Los Angeles, training with renowned skills trainer Chris Johnson and his assistant, Cory Smith, and says he came back a different player: Better range, better ballhandling, just … better.
“He’s shooting the ball so much better – he’ll be able to space the floor and clear some things up on the inside,” center Myles Turner says of Toppin, a career 32.5% shooter on 3-pointers. “He opens the game up, someone who can get out and run. Runs like a deer, man. See him get out in transition.”
We’ll see it here. We’ll see all of it, the shooting and the smiling and Toppin getting the ball in transition and jumping skyward and cocking the ball way, way back – down to his waist, almost – as he joins a system and teammates more conducive to his skill set. Will we see from Toppin, the new guy, the same stardom we once saw from new guys named Oladipo, Sabonis and Haliburton?
Can’t answer that. Toppin's on the move to the next photograph station – sitting in a chair, a basketball in one hand and his chin in the other. He’s looking off into the distance, deep in thought, perhaps wondering the same thing.”
Does that mean "better"? Maybe, knicks succeeded one way, other teams another.
Also, Randle became all pro allstar and Obi needed to get out.
On paper it looks good. preseason its all smiles and full of promise. Hope he does well. It might sting a bit but its more about knicks succeeding than players who are leave or are traded. All teams do it.
fact is as long as thibs is coaching, and Randle is here he would not get that opportunity. Context. Have to go back and look at the team, when he was drafted, the shut down, the lack of visits allowed and its easier to understand why the Knicks perception he'd be a safe pick. It did not pan out.
Nalod wrote:10/3 5:09pm: Vassell’s extension is a straight five-year deal with no options and features $135MM in guaranteed money, according to Michael Scotto of HoopsHype, who reports (via Twitter) that VassellMight want to gander at this article. The kid showed something last year despite playing only 32 games. https://www.si.com/nba/spurs/news/san-an...
I don't know what IQ salary will be worth, but fans tend to over value our own sometimes.
IQ has yet to put a full season together.
Why is obi pissed btw?
$30m per should be the salary of a solid starter on a championship contender.
IQ is neither a starter nor on a contender.
If some other team poaches him away from us for $30m, it would suck, because he has been valuable to us.
But this other team will be overpaying.
So this will be a lose-lose situation.
Kinda like what happened with Jeremy Lin. That was a lose-lose-lose for NY-Hou-Lin.
League economics are screwed up like that.
ESOMKnicks wrote:Nalod wrote:10/3 5:09pm: Vassell’s extension is a straight five-year deal with no options and features $135MM in guaranteed money, according to Michael Scotto of HoopsHype, who reports (via Twitter) that VassellMight want to gander at this article. The kid showed something last year despite playing only 32 games. https://www.si.com/nba/spurs/news/san-an...
I don't know what IQ salary will be worth, but fans tend to over value our own sometimes.
IQ has yet to put a full season together.
Why is obi pissed btw?$30m per should be the salary of a solid starter on a championship contender.
IQ is neither a starter nor on a contender.
If some other team poaches him away from us for $30m, it would suck, because he has been valuable to us.
But this other team will be overpaying.
So this will be a lose-lose situation.
Kinda like what happened with Jeremy Lin. That was a lose-lose-lose for NY-Hou-Lin.
League economics are screwed up like that.
It would. are there consequences if we over pay him and what are they?
ESOMKnicks wrote:IQ put up 20/5/5 and as a starter last year and the Knicks went 13-7. He's and ascending 2-way player. Look around the league at what guys are being paid.Nalod wrote:10/3 5:09pm: Vassell’s extension is a straight five-year deal with no options and features $135MM in guaranteed money, according to Michael Scotto of HoopsHype, who reports (via Twitter) that VassellMight want to gander at this article. The kid showed something last year despite playing only 32 games. https://www.si.com/nba/spurs/news/san-an...
I don't know what IQ salary will be worth, but fans tend to over value our own sometimes.
IQ has yet to put a full season together.
Why is obi pissed btw?$30m per should be the salary of a solid starter on a championship contender.
IQ is neither a starter nor on a contender.
If some other team poaches him away from us for $30m, it would suck, because he has been valuable to us.
But this other team will be overpaying.
So this will be a lose-lose situation.
Kinda like what happened with Jeremy Lin. That was a lose-lose-lose for NY-Hou-Lin.
League economics are screwed up like that.
IQ is a shooter.
IQ is a defensive player.
IQ can create his own shot.
IQ can score from anywhere on the floor.
"Someone" is gonna overpay just like we overpaid for Brunson.
Nalod wrote:ESOMKnicks wrote:
$30m per should be the salary of a solid starter on a championship contender.
IQ is neither a starter nor on a contender.
If some other team poaches him away from us for $30m, it would suck, because he has been valuable to us.
But this other team will be overpaying.
So this will be a lose-lose situation.
Kinda like what happened with Jeremy Lin. That was a lose-lose-lose for NY-Hou-Lin.
League economics are screwed up like that.It would. are there consequences if we over pay him and what are they?
We are cap-strapped and mediocre.
Cue the Layden years.
fishmike wrote:IQ put up 20/5/5 and as a starter last year and the Knicks went 13-7. He's and ascending 2-way player. Look around the league at what guys are being paid.IQ is a shooter.
IQ is a defensive player.
IQ can create his own shot.
IQ can score from anywhere on the floor."Someone" is gonna overpay just like we overpaid for Brunson.
Brunson proved his mettle in the playoffs. Quick fizzled there. How may he be worth more than Jalen is way beyond me.
I look around the league, see what Van Vleet, Vassel or Poole are getting paid, and think that the league is going bananas.
ESOMKnicks wrote:fishmike wrote:IQ put up 20/5/5 and as a starter last year and the Knicks went 13-7. He's and ascending 2-way player. Look around the league at what guys are being paid.IQ is a shooter.
IQ is a defensive player.
IQ can create his own shot.
IQ can score from anywhere on the floor."Someone" is gonna overpay just like we overpaid for Brunson.
Brunson proved his mettle in the playoffs. Quick fizzled there. How may he be worth more than Jalen is way beyond me.
I look around the league, see what Van Vleet, Vassel or Poole are getting paid, and think that the league is going bananas.
I think yester article by Bondy talks about Grimes lack of playoff production and fails to mention his shoulder issue. Bad reporting.
IQ is not a great defender. He improved from bad but not great.
IQ was contending for 6 man of year. Issue was early season was not a good look.
IQ playmaking came a long way.
Consequences if we over pay him is the "howard isley" thing. Good role player who did not translate to starter but got paid.
Its a tough call and likely they find a number. If he that well regarded what is his trade value in this or future market?
Nalod wrote:ESOMKnicks wrote:fishmike wrote:IQ put up 20/5/5 and as a starter last year and the Knicks went 13-7. He's and ascending 2-way player. Look around the league at what guys are being paid.IQ is a shooter.
IQ is a defensive player.
IQ can create his own shot.
IQ can score from anywhere on the floor."Someone" is gonna overpay just like we overpaid for Brunson.
Brunson proved his mettle in the playoffs. Quick fizzled there. How may he be worth more than Jalen is way beyond me.
I look around the league, see what Van Vleet, Vassel or Poole are getting paid, and think that the league is going bananas.I think yester article by Bondy talks about Grimes lack of playoff production and fails to mention his shoulder issue. Bad reporting.
IQ is not a great defender. He improved from bad but not great.
IQ was contending for 6 man of year. Issue was early season was not a good look.
IQ playmaking came a long way.
Consequences if we over pay him is the "howard isley" thing. Good role player who did not translate to starter but got paid.
Its a tough call and likely they find a number. If he that well regarded what is his trade value in this or future market?
IQ is not a great man-to-man defender. He is an excellent team and off-ball defender.
martin wrote:Nalod wrote:ESOMKnicks wrote:fishmike wrote:IQ put up 20/5/5 and as a starter last year and the Knicks went 13-7. He's and ascending 2-way player. Look around the league at what guys are being paid.IQ is a shooter.
IQ is a defensive player.
IQ can create his own shot.
IQ can score from anywhere on the floor."Someone" is gonna overpay just like we overpaid for Brunson.
Brunson proved his mettle in the playoffs. Quick fizzled there. How may he be worth more than Jalen is way beyond me.
I look around the league, see what Van Vleet, Vassel or Poole are getting paid, and think that the league is going bananas.I think yester article by Bondy talks about Grimes lack of playoff production and fails to mention his shoulder issue. Bad reporting.
IQ is not a great defender. He improved from bad but not great.
IQ was contending for 6 man of year. Issue was early season was not a good look.
IQ playmaking came a long way.
Consequences if we over pay him is the "howard isley" thing. Good role player who did not translate to starter but got paid.
Its a tough call and likely they find a number. If he that well regarded what is his trade value in this or future market?IQ is not a great man-to-man defender. He is an excellent team and off-ball defender.
no argument here. He got his long ass arms and learned to work hard at his craft off ball.
Bottom line is IQ if he left would suck, but its not critical. We fans cry but forget we got our two best players for basically free.
If IQ has a monster year not signing him THEN becomes a problem.
Bryant and Thibs have done a great job with this kid but I can't define his ceiling.
I have no issues other than perhaps his inflated rep from fans. Given his draft position he has perhaps met his potential. I don't see him as a prime time starter.
Grimes I can.
RJ you ask? That draft was a no brainer but I never saw him as a bonfide star. Some drafts you can get Michael Jordan at the 3rd pick, or Dirk way below that, but RJ in that draft was a prospect. This year will tell a tail.
Maybe some of you were more hopeful and the basis of a disappointment.