Knicks · Extend Thibs (page 1)
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Tom Thibodeau has rebuilt the Knicks — now he deserves an extensionStefan Bondy
Think, if you dare, where the Knicks stood before Tom Thibodeau. Think about the endless cycle of coaches, the dysfunction and wasted energy. The millions down the drain. Think about the coach missing practice because of a love triangle and a Matt Barnes right hook. Or the coach liking Twitter porn. Or the coach peddling delusion while winning 17 games.
Now look at the Knicks. A hope in the destitution of NYC sports. Look at the roster, a group that would’ve been easily dismissed as operating with a play-in ceiling if it never connected with Thibodeau.
Mitchell Robinson? A second-round pick who was a living, breathing personal foul before Thibs. Immanuel Quickley and Quentin Grimes? Late first-round picks projected as end-of-rotation players. RJ Barrett? A bust as a rookie. Julius Randle and Jalen Brunson? Neither were even offered extensions from the teams that drafted them.
And the Knicks locked them up. Assuming Quickley signs an extension before the Oct. 23 deadline, all these players, minus Grimes, but including Donte DiVincenzo and Josh Hart, are guaranteed until at least 2026.
Thibodeau’s deal? It expires after the 2024-25 season. Sooner rather than later, the Knicks’ best coach in two decades — the man most responsible from turning a franchise from rubble to respectability — deserves a contract extension.
“[Thibodeau] has extremely important, for the culture, holding each other accountable, all that different type of stuff. He’s extremely important,” Randle said Friday. “What he does day in and day out to prepare not only himself but to prepare our team, it’s vital. I think we take a lot from it. We know going into a game we’re going to be prepared.
“We know every day we’re going to come in and practice and practice the right way. He’s not going to allow us to do otherwise.”
Listen, we understand the logic of waiting to extend Thibodeau until after the season. Why not, right? But there are important reasons to commit.
Beyond the significance of locking in and rewarding a proven commodity — thereby promoting the “continuity” that has become the new franchise buzzword — it’s hard to coach without security.
It’s especially hard in New York, where Knicks coaches have received exactly one contract extension (not counting deals to remove interim tags) in the past 24 years (and that went to Isiah Thomas, wholly undeserving).
Erik Spoelstra commands full buy-in from the Heat roster because there’s unwavering support from the top of the organization. Pat Riley once rejected a plea from LeBron James — LeBron James — to replace Spoelstra.
Thibodeau, meanwhile, barely had time to accept his 2021 Coach of the Year trophy before being repositioned to the hot seat.
That following season, team executive William Wesley was reportedly throwing Thibodeau under the bus during conversations with owner James Dolan, according to SNY. By last November, it felt as if Thibs was a losing road trip away from getting canned. It’s the unfortunate nature of the job at MSG.
But we know what happened next. The coach adjusted his rotation and style, skewing younger and bucking his reputation. Thibodeau’s offense finished fourth in the NBA. He helped push one of the NBA’s youngest rosters to a playoff series victory, the franchise’s furthest advancement in a decade.
Through it all, the team has largely steered clear of controversy. Sure, we can criticize Thibodeau for not addressing Randle’s mood swings or for allowing Barrett to sprain his ankle in garbage time.
But these are minor issues compared to the chaos of pre-Thibs. He was tasked with the very difficult — to guide a winning team while the front office treaded water — and it’s hard to imagine better execution.
Thibodeau, whose salary for next season is believed to be in the $5 million range (far below that of newly signed Pistons coach Monty Williams), has more wins in his first three seasons than any Knicks coach not named Red Holzman or Pat Riley.
Good company. And those other coaches weren’t leading a team that was accumulating draft assets for a superstar trade.
“He’s a not only a great coach, but also a great inspirer,” Quickley said Friday. “Even today he was talking about the day-to-day grind of you have to start with the end in mind, and basically you have to think about how hard you have to work every single day to be where you want to be at the end of the year.”
The Knicks should know that kind of coach doesn’t come around often. Or they could just ask the Bulls, who fired Thibodeau in 2015 and still haven’t recovered.
“Every time we practice I almost know what Thibs is about to say before he says it. It’s great,” Randle said. “And chemistry just keeps getting stronger and stronger, building off that. The trust is there more and more. It’s important to have a coach for a long period of time.”
him some FO keys I don't see why. He should be safe. They also should stay committed to his vision as much as possible. Not drafting and going for Hart instead of so someone like Kennard symbolized a commitment to Thibs vision imo. They should let it play out under his terms but I don’t see a point to throwing money at him early unless you want him to have a position upstairs. That said Dolan isn’t scared to eat money if needed so I really wouldn’t care
Spo had yet to win a thing and Lebron wanted Riley to coach again. Context matters.
In the end, and we now know Spo to be a great coach in hindsight. Lebron did not respect Spo after the first year.
Lebron needed to man up too! Both did and grew.
As for Thibs, he is entering year 4 of a 5 year deal and it might serve him well to extend later then sooner.
While read he is a hoop junkie/lifer, maybe he has other aspirations beyond and will pursue them.
He is paid well and any new deal won’t be effect for two more seasons.
Maybe they all have decided 5 years will be the thing and perhaps Bryant takes the helm then and all are super happy see it through.
Thibs is doing a great job thus far. WWW had a legit point but Thibs went young, changed his season and proved adaptable. Does everyone have to have a hero and a villain here? Of course we do, media demands it!
Kiss the ground Coach Thibs walks upon.
EwingPSD wrote:He’s paid well, has 2 years left, and isn’t a threat to leave. Unless they want to hand
him some FO keys I don't see why. He should be safe. They also should stay committed to his vision as much as possible. Not drafting and going for Hart instead of so someone like Kennard symbolized a commitment to Thibs vision imo. They should let it play out under his terms but I don’t see a point to throwing money at him early unless you want him to have a position upstairs. That said Dolan isn’t scared to eat money if needed so I really wouldn’t care
I think there are some really good non basketball reasons to start that process now’ish and not let it seep into next year.
You start the process now - assuming both sides want to engage - and you path it out so its natural conclusion can wrap up before the 2024 summer ends and doesn’t become a back page clown show during the summer and at the start of next season when every reporter will ask Thibs and everyone if they are going to extend or whatever and it becomes a big distraction for players, coaches, front office.
You start the convo with Thibs now and maybe learn he can’t or doesn’t want more than 1-2 years beyond his current and you can plan for next steps with Bryant or other.
Could be that next superstar - along with Randle, Brunson - want to know that there is full continuity with FO and coach before they make their next contract decisions at that same summer 2025 juncture. I.e., Brunson wants to know what’s up with his best bud coach as he is also starting his contract negotiations; having that previously wrapped up 1 year early and those things don’t even appear on the horizon.
Like that. I’d guess not every organization goes about its business this way but it’s not untypical for them to play out this way and involve a lot of other important decisions and steps that are also going on.
martin wrote:EwingPSD wrote:He’s paid well, has 2 years left, and isn’t a threat to leave. Unless they want to hand
him some FO keys I don't see why. He should be safe. They also should stay committed to his vision as much as possible. Not drafting and going for Hart instead of so someone like Kennard symbolized a commitment to Thibs vision imo. They should let it play out under his terms but I don’t see a point to throwing money at him early unless you want him to have a position upstairs. That said Dolan isn’t scared to eat money if needed so I really wouldn’t careI think there are some really good non basketball reasons to start that process now’ish and not let it seep into next year.
You start the process now - assuming both sides want to engage - and you path it out so its natural conclusion can wrap up before the 2024 summer ends and doesn’t become a back page clown show during the summer and at the start of next season when every reporter will ask Thibs and everyone if they are going to extend or whatever and it becomes a big distraction for players, coaches, front office.
You start the convo with Thibs now and maybe learn he can’t or doesn’t want more than 1-2 years beyond his current and you can plan for next steps with Bryant or other.
Could be that next superstar - along with Randle, Brunson - want to know that there is full continuity with FO and coach before they make their next contract decisions at that same summer 2025 juncture. I.e., Brunson wants to know what’s up with his best bud coach as he is also starting his contract negotiations; having that previously wrapped up 1 year early and those things don’t even appear on the horizon.
Like that. I’d guess not every organization goes about its business this way but it’s not untypical for them to play out this way and involve a lot of other important decisions and steps that are also going on.
Whats made public and whats not. I indicated all might in some way all worked out.
Not known is does Thibs have to take this team to conf finals to extend? Does “continuity” also factor in the staff staying in place but Byrant as top coach?
The notion of “We have to know” for the fan is not the same as whats the real deal. Leon runs a tight ship and what is his plans for himself as well?
Technically, we don’t have a GM. Gerson ROsas not listed in any official title. Yet?
EwingPSD wrote:He’s paid well, has 2 years left, and isn’t a threat to leave. Unless they want to hand
him some FO keys I don't see why. He should be safe. They also should stay committed to his vision as much as possible. Not drafting and going for Hart instead of so someone like Kennard symbolized a commitment to Thibs vision imo. They should let it play out under his terms but I don’t see a point to throwing money at him early unless you want him to have a position upstairs. That said Dolan isn’t scared to eat money if needed so I really wouldn’t care
I agree for the most part but you can’t really have a head coach with just 1 year left on his contract because the theory is a lot of players won’t listen to him because they know he’s probably a goner after the season.
KnickDanger wrote:Thomas, Rambis, Fisher and - oy - Fizdale…..Kiss the ground Coach Thibs walks upon.
Just because the previous regime whiffed hard multiple times on head coach es doesn’t mean there aren’t options
Philc1 wrote:KnickDanger wrote:Thomas, Rambis, Fisher and - oy - Fizdale…..Kiss the ground Coach Thibs walks upon.
Just because the previous regime whiffed hard multiple times on head coach es doesn’t mean there aren’t options
True. Thibs might be able to take them but so far. One year at a time. He might not be put off at all to go into his last year without a new contract. Or, perhaps they just give him an option each year after? He could get more money on shorter deals and be happy?
Lets see how this year unfolds.
The record before Thibs and after is telling.
Perhaps the most important is how well he seems to work with the FO. A big indication is how teams deal with mistakes and failures. I am not going to list all the good they have done or accomplished in terms of player development, signings etc... but here's the lemons on Thibs and the FO:
Kemba
Evan Fournier
Cam Reddish
Obi Toppin
We have yet to see the team post Obi/EF but I am under the impression they are gonna be OK
fishmike wrote:Thibs is easily a top 5 coach in this league. He's been fantastic. Remember the complaints when he was hired? Antiquated offense? Doesnt like analytics? God the stuff people spouted turned out to be wildly untrue and utterly stupid.The record before Thibs and after is telling.
Perhaps the most important is how well he seems to work with the FO. A big indication is how teams deal with mistakes and failures. I am not going to list all the good they have done or accomplished in terms of player development, signings etc... but here's the lemons on Thibs and the FO:
Kemba
Evan Fournier
Cam Reddish
Obi ToppinWe have yet to see the team post Obi/EF but I am under the impression they are gonna be OK
You know what is wild to me regarding how Thibs and team has been over the first 3 years? They succeeded too much in the first season and that temporarily stalled them and they made some decision they probably shouldn't/wouldn't have if they had a less successful one.
It set them down a short path where the team tried to build on that success over the short term and the expectations were set for the second year.
If the Knicks had jump from their previous win record of 21 wins in 2019-2020 to 37 wins (which happened in their second year) and THEN had the Randle/RJ bounce that occurred in 2020-21, things would have been different. And then it would have followed with the Brunson kick the following.
I think most fans expect a smooth upward line of success. It don't always happen that way in life
DLeethal wrote:I'm a Thibs supporter but wouldn't extend him and would prefer to get a younger coach after his term and let him morph into an advisory role. Thibs is the 3rd oldest coach in the NBA and doesn't look like the healthiest dude ever. I'm cool with Thibs sticking around though in a different capacity.
I don’t know if I am in the boat of not wanting to extend him because of his age, but it has to be a consideration.
Does he want to commit and how much does he have left in the tank.
If I had to make a decision, I would extend him, but see that I am developing a next gen of coaches to take over.
I basically went from basically giving up (after years of suffering) to once again feeling like we have a contending team under this Rose/Thibs regime.
Philc1 wrote:KnickDanger wrote:Thomas, Rambis, Fisher and - oy - Fizdale…..Kiss the ground Coach Thibs walks upon.
Just because the previous regime whiffed hard multiple times on head coach es doesn’t mean there aren’t options
Waiting to hear your well thought out options.
franco12 wrote:DLeethal wrote:I'm a Thibs supporter but wouldn't extend him and would prefer to get a younger coach after his term and let him morph into an advisory role. Thibs is the 3rd oldest coach in the NBA and doesn't look like the healthiest dude ever. I'm cool with Thibs sticking around though in a different capacity.I don’t know if I am in the boat of not wanting to extend him because of his age, but it has to be a consideration.
Does he want to commit and how much does he have left in the tank.
If I had to make a decision, I would extend him, but see that I am developing a next gen of coaches to take over.
I literally think that's why Johnie Bryant is the associate head coach or whatever the lead assistant title is.
I think most have guessed he is the person next in line if they go that route.
SergioNYK wrote:Unless Spoelstra ever becomes a FA I have no problem keeping Thibs here.
Yeah, but is there really a need to rush an extension through? He's 65 and he has two seasons, including this upcoming one, remaining.
franco12 wrote:DLeethal wrote:I'm a Thibs supporter but wouldn't extend him and would prefer to get a younger coach after his term and let him morph into an advisory role. Thibs is the 3rd oldest coach in the NBA and doesn't look like the healthiest dude ever. I'm cool with Thibs sticking around though in a different capacity.I don’t know if I am in the boat of not wanting to extend him because of his age, but it has to be a consideration.
Does he want to commit and how much does he have left in the tank.
If I had to make a decision, I would extend him, but see that I am developing a next gen of coaches to take over.
Much of it also depends on the construction of the team, how close we are to contention, etc. If we have a contender on the precipice that Thibs largely help build do we extend him a couple years or something to give him a legit shot with them? Sure. Am I just giving him a 5 year extension with lots of uncertainty around the roster construction for that period? Probably not. I'd rather let him be an advisor and have Johnny Bryant take over with Thibs still providing some tutelage.
If left to make the decision, Thibs will coach until he's on his deathbed. At some point you need to get a younger, fresher coach IMO. Especially if our team remains young and the future is still an open canvas.
DLeethal wrote:franco12 wrote:DLeethal wrote:I'm a Thibs supporter but wouldn't extend him and would prefer to get a younger coach after his term and let him morph into an advisory role. Thibs is the 3rd oldest coach in the NBA and doesn't look like the healthiest dude ever. I'm cool with Thibs sticking around though in a different capacity.I don’t know if I am in the boat of not wanting to extend him because of his age, but it has to be a consideration.
Does he want to commit and how much does he have left in the tank.
If I had to make a decision, I would extend him, but see that I am developing a next gen of coaches to take over.
Much of it also depends on the construction of the team, how close we are to contention, etc. If we have a contender on the precipice that Thibs largely help build do we extend him a couple years or something to give him a legit shot with them? Sure. Am I just giving him a 5 year extension with lots of uncertainty around the roster construction for that period? Probably not. I'd rather let him be an advisor and have Johnny Bryant take over with Thibs still providing some tutelage.
If left to make the decision, Thibs will coach until he's on his deathbed. At some point you need to get a younger, fresher coach IMO. Especially if our team remains young and the future is still an open canvas.
I agree with these sentiments.
But from a practical matter does the number of years that you extend someone really matter? Especially in this coaching situation where you might want to move him upstairs to FO advisor? You extend Thibs 5 years and if after 1 or 2 or 3 he needs to moved out, you just do it.